Boat designer gets 3 years....negligent

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by pistnbroke, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    Australian boat designer got 3 years for maslaughter after the boat he built split its keel and 5 died.
    Evidentally the keel had been cut and re welded ( ?) in manufacture and the weld painted over so he could not see it .....they did not find who did the cut and shut so the boss got the bird.

    If someone knows how to post full story it on yahoo .com.au
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    That was on old story, has he just gone to prison? Its on this forum some where.
     
  3. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    Yes frosty only just got sent to prison but on bail pending appeal .....
     
  4. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Bit more detail in the 'Keels and Keels ' again thread too
     
  5. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Intrigueing tale. There must be some sordid details involved. I have occasionally seen a boat or boats whose designer deserved a good flogging for having created a travesty. I have not heard of one who has been jailed for stupidity or incompetance until, possibly, now. The designer may or may not have been a knowledgeable and responsible individual. I reckon the court will decide.

    Why is it that so damned many people believe that they can design a boat? These forums abound with inquiries from would be designers who have no conception of displacement or perception of metacentric height or ballast ratio, or scantling rules, etc...... It is true that my Bernese mountain dog can design a vessel that will float and even look somewhat like a boat. His design might not be safe or entirely functional however. Here in the U.S. we are not required by law or regulation to have a license to design or build boats, nor is a formal education required. Maybe that is why there are some real clunkers out there.
     
  6. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    It's the macical powers of Rhino and similar 3D software, I think. It makes people create some really fancy ad nice looking creatures on their PC screen.
    So they end up watching it proudly, thinking "Hey, here it is, in front of me - let me hit that print button and build it!". ;)

    Ok, I'm exagerrating it a bit, I know. The story behind that particular keel is different, it is about some negligent and undocumented keel modifications performed at the welding stage. But still the magic of Rhino sometimes does act like opium for DIY people, imho.
     
  7. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    which college did noah got to
     
  8. peter radclyffe
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    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    without that chancers efforts, this forum might not exist
     
  9. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    That is also probably true.
     
  10. joz
    Joined: Jul 2002
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    joz Senior Member

    Would the possibility that is you set up as a designer that you have to prove that you can design a boat from scratch to which you can provide at least 5-6 boats of various sizes and types with all there calculations and be submitted to a profesional body such as RINA, SNAME or Government Body etc before you are allowed to practice as a designer, what I mean by that is that you have to prove yourself that you can be trusted to be able to design safe boats for the general public. This is aimed at Amatuer Designers who read books, websites etc and then design boats with no formal training quilifications.

    For those of us that have to study at a University or TAFE College or via Correspondence to obtain our advance diploma or degree in yacht design or naval architecure then the above should not be needed to which we gain our qulifications from reputable schools and years of hard study.

    my 2 cents worth
     
  11. BWD
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Virginia, US

    BWD Senior Member

    There was no designer of yachts per se involved in the case, from what the article says.
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5683425/fatal-boat-builder-unaware-keel-faulty/

    The keel fabricator (who is not identified as the builder of the whole project, and may not be) was the one convicted.

    The article states the boat was alloy; presumably the keel was too, and the unplanned weld in alloy -not good.

    If the fabricator did not know this was done, obviously he did not run his shop with any attention to the work, and perhaps trusted his foreman too much. Yet the foreman was acquitted. The implication is that the fabricator knew about the modification. Perhaps he even ordered it, when plates did not fit or something...

    I saw nothing in the article to suggest any designer, schooled or unschooled, did anything wrong.
     
  12. Knut Sand
    Joined: Apr 2003
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    Knut Sand Senior Member

    I was working in shop once, designing and calculating parts/ areas of something like these:

    http://images.google.no/imgres?imgu...ling+rigs&hl=no&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enNO310&sa=N&um=1

    Well the booms on these take some beating, also people in baskets, hydraulic drilling units, and people walking underneath also....

    Everything went ahead as planned. Machining, assembly, finished, painted, testing..... Done it a zillion times.... relaxed... Get the picture?

    I watched for some minutes, went back into the office, then one man ended in hospital, minor injuries, and area closed, no access. A "possee" went out and guess the direction? Me... They were not too easy to handle, went a bit "hot" under the top lid there for a few hours, agressive questions, not a too pleasant atmosphere. I was marked as the sinner. During the "investigation", I had to fight to get acsess to the parts, and it dawned on me; welding, measures, what we here call the measure of "A", weld depth. Then finally I could dig up the relevant shop drawings, calculations that showed why I had chosen 14 mm weld thickness. Not 4-5 as manufactured.... that made the possee change direction... more or less 180°. What I try to say here:

    I've been over this incident a couple of times in my head; I would've seen the blunder (actually it was a deliberate action from the welder to catch up on the schedule, not me pushing on...), I would have caught it, had I seen it, but a shortcut like that; but the "exposure" time of the blunder/ fault is just too short to normally notice it... And the welder; well they had had a production meeting where everybody in the welding department were "flogged", due to lack of progress.

    Problem is, at least somewhere; the neverending need for speed in production, some things in this world just have to take its time, welding, pregnacies ( 9 willing men cannot make a baby in a month) are just some of them.
     
  13. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Best analysis of the problem I have come across. Everywhere from NASA to my local mechanic.

    In my business - the number one problem with projects is that the time frame and cost are decided at managerial level, before anyone doing the work has been talked to.

    This is the age of Enron, baby !
     
  14. Wayne Grabow
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Location: Colorado

    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    We all are occasionally urged to do more faster on the job. (like today) What stops me is the concept of professionalism. I work in a strictly licensed area but there are still a few willing to compromise, mainly newbies who don't realize how serious failure can be. As a manager, I got other managers to agree on a maximum work rate to be expected beyond which quality would be likely to suffer.
     

  15. shugabear
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: alabama

    shugabear jr member

    that sounds like he got dealt a wild bill hand how can a boat manufacture be blamed for the work of his hired hands thats like getting on to a dog for goiing to the restroom outside ( no way the same) but you get my point
     
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