Big project -- big need for advice and experience

[martinf]

Hello,
Some of you may remember my posts a while back concerning a WWII Sea Mule. Well, I bought the darn thing--rescued it actually as it was going to the torch--and am now getting it restored and up and running. That's where you good people come in . I've seen such great assistance and knowledge here on this site and I am hoping that you all will be wiling to advise as I begin working on this project.

Here's the basics: It's a 1944 WWII steel boat called a Sea Mule and built by Chrystler. They made some 8,000 of them, mostly as pusher tugs. It's 13' by 40' drafts 4' with 3' or so freeboard. Twin screws of 54" dia powered by Chrystelr Royals, which are straight 8's. The hull is actually 4 seperate hulls, each water-tight and bolted together. Flat deck with pusher knees up front and tow bitts in the rear. 58,000 lbs. of heavy steel in weight.

I live on a 55 mile long 1500 ft deep lake in Washington State called Lake Chelan. There's work on this lake for the Forest Service rafting, hauling and placing drifting logs that come flooding down the rivers into the lake. There's also dock work and supply hauling up lake (no road access for the upper 3/4th of the lake. I have a knuckle boom loader that I eventually plan on mounting on the deck, but first is just going thru everything and getting it solid and in good shape.

So, the engines are good, and the hulls are fairly sound. I have the four sections split apart and they are all up on blocks. There will be lots of areas of work for which I'm hoping for guidance (paint selection, wheel house design to name just two), but I'll start with tank selection.

Fuel tanks - There were originally two tanks, one in each forward section, of 250 gallons each. I've been reading all the threads on this site about tanks. Yep, new-age plastics would be great, but the price tag is a deal killer. I am thinking about using old home heating oil tanks, the kind that is retangular/ovalish. They would fit nice and compact in the front sections. I know about rust issues, but I can clean and seal them, use filters and replace when I need to. I'd like them to be in the 150 - 250 gallon range. Bottom line: I think the hassle is justified by the very low price.

Looking at the pictures below, you'll see in the 2nd pic a vertical seam in the hull aft of the yellow bars on the deck. This is where the hulls split, and is the bulkhead against which the tanks will be located. I also included a picture of the interior of the front section but it is looking towards the bow and not back where the tanks will be. Fortunately, there is already a pedestal pad of about 4 ft square upon which the tanks sat in each of the two front compartments.

I'm a great mechanic, a fair welder, a minimally experienced boater, and a big dreamer! I own all the equipment I need--shop, a 20 ton crawler crane, cribbing, sandblaster, welders, torches. I'll be real appreciative of any and all advice you guys are willing to offer. Here's a few pics to give you a better sense of this project.
thanks for any assistance.
~martin

[Gilbert]

Cool!!!

[marshmat]

Cool indeed

It looks like one heck of a project... will be nice to see it on the water.

Using home heating oil tanks might be possible. I don't think the rusting would be an issue if you maintain them as you describe. But I would be a bit worried about dynamic loading. Most of those heating oil tanks I've seen basically have a strut on each corner welded up from 2" angle so they don't tip over, and not much else in the way of support. 200 USgal of diesel weighs about 550 kg / 1200 lb, and you don't want that shifting around or breaking free in a seaway. You'd have to give some serious thought to the mounting system- something that can hold the tank steady under perhaps a 3-g load (ie, can withstand 3600 lb in any direction) without point-loading the tank (which would puncture it).

Might want to check the ABS standards on fuel tanks too....

Originally Posted by marshmat

Cool indeed

It looks like one heck of a project... will be nice to see it on the water.

Using home heating oil tanks might be possible. I don't think the rusting would be an issue if you maintain them as you describe. But I would be a bit worried about dynamic loading. Most of those heating oil tanks I've seen basically have a strut on each corner welded up from 2" angle so they don't tip over, and not much else in the way of support. 200 USgal of diesel weighs about 550 kg / 1200 lb, and you don't want that shifting around or breaking free in a seaway. You'd have to give some serious thought to the mounting system- something that can hold the tank steady under perhaps a 3-g load (ie, can withstand 3600 lb in any direction) without point-loading the tank (which would puncture it).

Might want to check the ABS standards on fuel tanks too....

And do´nt forget to weld some baffles inside too, for stability of your tank as of your vessel!

Regards
Richard

[mydauphin]

Not a fast vessel. Probably need repower to more economical engines. What do you want vessel for? Houseboat? Workboat?
I would start by demo whatever I don't want. Then hiring soda blasting company to sand blast whole ship inside and out. not expensive and they can do it in a day. Then paint with primer.
I would like to see more pictures of running gear

[Lt. Holden]

Very Cool Indeed! It would make a neat "party barge". Those are Huge props!
As to the tanks, I also wonder if oil tanks are beefy enough since they are designed for static placement and have no baffles. How about steel or iron pipe with one or both ends threaded or welded on and a large maintenance access port (if both are welded)?

[martinf]

Originally Posted by apex1

And do´nt forget to weld some baffles inside too, for stability of your tank as of your vessel!

Regards
Richard

I know baffles are the best way to go, but to put baffles in the homeheating oil tanks I am wanting to use, I'd have to cut them open and then I am almost half-ways to just making new tanks. Since this boat is so slow in the water, do you think I could get by without baffles?

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Not a fast vessel. Probably need repower to more economical engines. What do you want vessel for? Houseboat? Workboat?
I would start by demo whatever I don't want. Then hiring soda blasting company to sand blast whole ship inside and out. not expensive and they can do it in a day. Then paint with primer.
I would like to see more pictures of running gear

I will be using it to tow big rafts of logs perhaps 20 - 30 miles or so at a time. Also, then, using an on-board knuckle boom loader to place logs on shoreline for erosion control work.

I like your idea of sand blasting the whole thing and it was what I was planing on doing. But, I was assuming I'd be using sand, not soda. Is the main reason for using soda as to not mess up the primer and paint job?

As to the running gear, I've attached a photo. They are Chrystler Royal engines, flathead 8's running into a 11:1 transmission.

thanks for the assistance, all.
~martin

[Gilbert]

You might consider using two or three (or however many you would need)cylindrical fuel tanks like those used on Highway trucks in place of each 250 or so gallon fuel oil tank. I wouldn't think you would need to be concerned about baffles then. Of course it would require a more complicated setup for fueling and fuel delivery lines.
Or.........beer kegs????

[RHP]

Originally Posted by Lt. Holden

Those are Huge props!

No such thing as huge props when enemy aircraft were diving down onto you.... gimme bigger engines and bigger props !!

[mydauphin]

Not familiar with those engines, but if they are what I think they are, they are 1950s style, 150hp, not very powerful engines. Replace them with a Naturally aspirate Detroit Diesel and tranny that match your prop, and get double the power and fuel economy. I prefer diesel for many reasons including safety. Keel Cooled and dry exhaust. Plenty of torque and better fuel economy. On fuel, consider installing fuel bags inside tanks. Cheaper, no slosh, easy to size and replace.
On soda blasting vs sand. I sandbalsted my haul, afterword found out that soda is cheaper because it was easier to cleanup and dispose of Soda. It would have cost my $700 and done in day, inside and out. I spent $2000 and a month. They come with big truck with a huge compressor and blast with something that looks like a firehose. They do all the covering, wraping etc... Just look into it.

[drmiller100]

sure would be a big mess if you sprung a leak and the west coast nature nazis caught you dumping a gallon of gasoline into their beautiful lake.

You would be FAMOUS!!!!!

Each their own, but I would think long and hard about buying a small mini excavator. You can buy decent 8,000 pound ones for under 10,000 bucks, and they do anything a knuckle boom will do, plus move around. For instance, delivering sand you can actually drive up on the bank and do work with it.

just thoughts....

[rasorinc]

In Lake Tahoe that woud be a hanging offense. Or summary execution..........

[martinf]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Not familiar with those engines, but if they are what I think they are, they are 1950s style, 150hp, not very powerful engines. Replace them with a Naturally aspirate Detroit Diesel and tranny that match your prop, and get double the power and fuel economy. I prefer diesel for many reasons including safety. Keel Cooled and dry exhaust. Plenty of torque and better fuel economy. On fuel, consider installing fuel bags inside tanks. Cheaper, no slosh, easy to size and replace.
On soda blasting vs sand. I sandbalsted my haul, afterword found out that soda is cheaper because it was easier to cleanup and dispose of Soda. It would have cost my $700 and done in day, inside and out. I spent $2000 and a month. They come with big truck with a huge compressor and blast with something that looks like a firehose. They do all the covering, wraping etc... Just look into it.

Yep, they're around 140-some hp and, with twin Carter carbs on each, I'm sure they'e gas guzzlers. I, too, would much prefer diesel--for all the reasons you mentioned--just can't afford that right now. I'll get the boat respted, get it paying it's own way for a while, andthen re-power after I see that this boat works for me the way I need it too.

Thanks for the tip about the soda blasting, I'll definately look into that.

Originally Posted by drmiller100

Each their own, but I would think long and hard about buying a small mini excavator. You can buy decent 8,000 pound ones for under 10,000 bucks, and they do anything a knuckle boom will do, plus move around. For instance, delivering sand you can actually drive up on the bank and do work with it.

just thoughts....

Good idea about the mini excavator. It would be easy to ramp it right on/off the boat onto shore. I'll first get a better idea from the Forest Service what kind of shoreline work they're going to be wanting. The knuckle boom loader, with a 24 ft reach, was going to be a way to manage the logs while they're floating in the lake and then to also be able to pile them up on the shore (I'd have the loader up by the bow).

Originally Posted by readyforboating

very cool !!! if you need help you can pm me for anything.

Thanks for the offer about the pm and to all the rest of you for the responses.

Just yesterday I found some tanks that look good: new steel tanks designed for fuel, 2' x 4' x 5', with filler neck and appropriate plumbing hook-ups, with a baffle, 500 lbs, for 299 bucks. I'll have to check to see what the truck freight charges are, but that seems pretty reasonable.

My next questions wil have to do with primer/paint selection, tow bit locations, wheel house design, navigation lighting....
thanks all.
~martin