Batteries and New Battery Technologies

[BertKu]

We are still a long way away from the maximum of 26% efficiency tested under laboratory conditions. But 19% in near production conditions is promissing.

http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/...19-efficiency/

[Boston]

how hard is it to make a rechargeable battery
lead acid type
something were the components are cheap

[Landlubber]

Boston, where may that be, China, India, no sorry mate, minerals are basically the same price anywhere...lead is expensive to us all.

Labour is the only variable that we can obtain elsewhere.....wherever that may be.

[Boston]

I think you misunderstood me
I meant a system that uses relatively cheap components

lead
acid
glass
minimal electronics

that sort of thing

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by Boston

I think you misunderstood me
I meant a system that uses relatively cheap components

lead
acid
glass
minimal electronics

that sort of thing

Making any secondary battery that will last through a number of cycles requires technical know-how.

Lead is an internationally traded commodity and the price is consistent give or take the transport cost in any market.

It is regarded as a dirty metal because it has no beneficial use to life. It is a poison. Even in trace amounts it is harmful. It impairs early brain development. As a consequence it is not something miners spend effort looking for. They are concerned about the long-term liability aspects. New metal is generally produced as a byproduct of zinc mining - zinc is an essential trace element for life so regarded more favourably. Lead is one metal that achieves a good level of recycle. Most jurisdictions in the modern world prohibit indiscriminate disposal.

So what you see is a gradual upward trend in price of lead because there is no replacement for it in car starter batteries yet. More cars means more locked up in applications. So the prognosis for lead as a material in intensive use is not good. Increase use would push up price dramatically.

Attached price chart gives an idea of the trend. Lead is the best performer of the base metals by a good margin over the last 5 years.

Rick W

[BertKu]

Rick,

That German company may be a second source for you, when you are ready to order your large panels. I personally will go for small panels. Should one fail, it will be easier to resolve a problem, either with a spare panel or with a different replacement anywhere in the world. I assume that this company makes also flexible panels, in view that they are printing the sensitive layer.

5,5 m2 would mean 1 Kw, which is getting better and better.

Bert

[Guest625101138]

Bert
Jeremy Harris provided this link on the electric boat thread:
http://www.everbrightsolar.net/108-3...ires10836.html

He has bought a pack for his boat. He is testing different methods of assembling them. The price is attractive but, most importantly, they can be mounted with about half the weight of a standard panel. The standard panels are designed to stand up to all weather conditions so the physical protection is far more robust than something that stays under cover most of its life. If you were worried about hail you could carry a protective matt for the event.

Rick W

[Tug]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35466087/

cheers
Tug

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

Bert
Jeremy Harris provided this link on the electric boat thread:
http://www.everbrightsolar.net/108-3...ires10836.html

He has bought a pack for his boat.

If you were worried about hail you could carry a protective matt for the event.

Rick W

Thanks Jeremy,

I will certainly consider some experiments. It is however still 1,25 m2 for 190 peak watts, but the price is attractive.

Rick,

I will be using stainless steel reflectors and it will have a double purpose.
Reflecting and covering the solarcells to protect them instead of a protective matt. We manufacture in South Africa oil out of coal and as byproduct all the various expoxies etc. The prices are good as we do not have to pay import duties and transport cost. Your suggestion to use an expoxy as the upper layer is strongly considered by me. Thus the stainless steel reflector comes in handy. But I have my hands full with making the hull, and all the other issues are shifted to the background.

[BertKu]

03-31-2010, 02:31 AM
CDK
experimental engineer Join Date: Aug 2007
Rep: 435 Posts: 1,018
Location: Adriatic sea

Bert, I made another trip with the RV last week and found the location I wrote about earlier. They changed the configuration, now there are less panels and more reflectors.
Attached Thumbnails

Refer Thread 58 under "how to make a solar panel"
__________________
Stupidity must be a virtue, whole industries, governments, even economies depend on it......

[BertKu]

Well, it seems EEstor is fading, because of production problems.

But we have new development on Super Capacitors.

http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/ne...tra-capacitor/

No doubt it will take a few years to materialize for production, but it will come.
Bert

Please note , the comment on life time !!! forever if build properly !! The battery manufacturers want like that, special the Lifepro and Lead acid manufacturers.

[CDK]

So now we are presented with Super Ultra Caps (SUC) and must wait for something starting with a K.

This proposed technology may be useful for applications where tantalum or ceramic multi-layers still are too bulky, like pacemakers or hearing aids.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by CDK

So now we are presented with Super Ultra Caps (SUC) and must wait for something starting with a K.

This proposed technology may be useful for applications where tantalum or ceramic multi-layers still are too bulky, like pacemakers or hearing aids.

Come on CDK, Siemens produced it allready 11 years ago, 4800 Farad and larger types. One can buy without sweat, hunderds of up to 1000 Farad from China today. Why don't you believe that they have now developed materials which links the outer electrons with each other and thereby creating multiple soccerfields of capacitor plates on one cm2 ?
I truly believe that this technology will come. It has all the advantages, large currents charging and discharging, long lifetime, deep charging.
If the Americans are clever and I believe they are, they will reduce the dependence on oil. I do agree however that production on large volumes of that type of battery will take some time. I bet that they will use a similar circuit, like I made and tested some time ago.

Bert

[Timothy]

Anybody know anything about the new Odessy PC 1800-ft battery? I just got back to my boat after spending the winter in Thailand and my batteries are toast. I was hoping to get another season out of them but 3 years of heavy use and they are near done. It looks like 2 of these will give me the amp hours I need and will have no problem accepting the charge from my 200 amp alternator They also appear to be lighter for the same capacity and would take up less space than my old 8d spiral wound agms.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Timothy

Anybody know anything about the new Odessy PC 1800-ft battery? I just got back to my boat after spending the winter in Thailand and my batteries are toast. I was hoping to get another season out of them but 3 years of heavy use and they are near done. It looks like 2 of these will give me the amp hours I need and will have no problem accepting the charge from my 200 amp alternator They also appear to be lighter for the same capacity and would take up less space than my old 8d spiral wound agms.

Hi Timothy,
Try to google "Odyssey PC 1800" If you spell it correctly, you will find all the answers you need, either in Google or Yahoo.
Bert