Batteries and New Battery Technologies

[masalai]

Bert, It tallies, as the RH column is the battery using the "carbon nano tube coating" as the internal element and is lighter, highly conductive and offers a very large surface area for electron transfer - if my memory serves??? a slightly larger volume for the package and slightly heavier but with a MASSIVE BOOST in capacity

If the same cells could be realigned to give 48VDC then by extrapolation there would be some 300AH available... All I need is a competitive price delivered, lifespan, guarantee of performance, reliability, vibration & bump tolerance for boat use...

At 17.25kg per 12V package and 4 packages in series to give 48VDC totalling 69KG it all looks good... I am available as a monitored test platform...

I think we posted at the same time What think you of my version? That is 14.4 Kwh, more than enough for my needs...

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

At 17.25kg per 12V package and 4 packages in series to give 48VDC totalling 69KG it all looks good... I am available as a monitored test platform...

.

Nonsense, I was first. You have to wait for me to be the test platform. !!!!!

Whoow, would that not be fantastic 200 Watt/Kg. If they really could produce at the beginning of 2010 already, it is worthwhile waiting for it.

I was already puzzeld why the 12 Volt 60 Amperehour is only 12,2 Kg. They are made in production runs by First National Batteries here in RSA, this is maybe already the beginning of this new technology.
12 x 60 = 1200 : 12,2 = 98 Watthour/Kg

Bert

[masalai]

Bert, Is your boat ready? - - I will have launched in April 2010

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

Bert, Is your boat ready? - - I will have launched in April 2010

No Masalai,
I only got my money 2 weeks ago from overseas. I am first sorting my electrics out before finalizing the boat itself. I have a boatbuilder here in Mosselbay who is eager to do that for me.
Bert

[masalai]

So how are you going to run a "monitored test platform??

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

So how are you going to run a "monitored test platform??

Easy, I borrow your boat.
bert

[masalai]

I will rent it, with me as the operator for a tidy fee... (A 1 oz gold coin per week, - - well I have to live somehow and I come fairly cheap at the moment?)

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

I will rent it, with me as the operator for a tidy fee... (A 1 oz gold coin per week, - - well I have to live somehow and I come fairly cheap at the moment?)

We love to come and see Australia. You have a beatifull country and coastline there.

We have only goldbars here. If you go to the goldmuseum and you can lift one with 2 fingers and one hand, you may keep it and take it home.
So far nobody has been able to do so.

Bert

[masalai]

Do you know its weight? 1KG, 200Oz or 400oz? or other? - - want to make sure it is worth my while is that thumb and a finger or two fingers other than the thumb????

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

Do you know its weight? 1KG, 200Oz or 400oz? or other? - - want to make sure it is worth my while is that thumb and a finger or two fingers other than the thumb????

They are about a 12,5 Kg each, value $400 million ? Refer type under Yahoo "Gold Reef City" and click on search.

bert

[CDK]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the mere fact that the battery would accept such a charge rate was the point wasn't it??...not that it could be accomplished in many locales

OK, here we go:

As with any electrical product on this planet (except super-conductivity near -273 C.) there are losses. The cables used for professional welding transformers can carry a few 100 Amps, the amateur ones can handle approx. 100 A and even then get warm. For 1500 Amps -an order of magnitude larger- you would need cables with 10 times the cross section. The battery poles must also be 10 times larger, 5" diameter instead of 0.5". The same goes for the internal straps between the cells, but the physical dimensions of the proposed battery does not allow that.

The lead acid battery has a low internal resistance, but it is not zero. A charging current of 1500 Amps means you need approx. 15 V, so you'd have to apply 22.5 kW for 45 minutes. Even with 95% efficiency there is over 1 kW of heat generated within the battery case, causing the electrolyte to boil.

Do not misunderstand me, it is not impossible to build a 1500 Amp charger and a battery to charge it with. But both need a fork lift truck to carry them around. Because the current has to be carried by metals like copper and lead with their inherent losses, the industry increases the voltage rather than the current in all high power applications.

This sort of nonsense originates from people with a pocket calculator.
A scientist, working with nano technology, has developed a needle-point sized battery that can store an incredible amount of energy for the given size. And an ignorant salesman or journalist multiplies that to obtain values he understands, like inches and amp at 12 volts.

[capt vimes]

since e-dragtsers have been mentioned....
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php#2007s

scroll a little bit down... you will see fotos of a 880 'A123 systems' cell-pack of 175 lbs placed in the trunk of the car...
they pull 1400 amps max @ 374 V... no Ah are mentioned because it is of minor interest in a dragster appliaction...
here are the technical specs for this car...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

do not ask me about charging time because mentioned is only a 75 A charger... i do not wanna know how long it will take to fully charge this pack..
but it shows that high energy applications are doable and that they work...

@portacruise
what do you maen by 'dump'-charging?

[portacruise]

Originally Posted by capt vimes

since e-dragtsers have been mentioned....
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php#2007s

scroll a little bit down... you will see fotos of a 880 'A123 systems' cell-pack of 175 lbs placed in the trunk of the car...
they pull 1400 amps max @ 374 V... no Ah are mentioned because it is of minor interest in a dragster appliaction...
here are the technical specs for this car...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

do not ask me about charging time because mentioned is only a 75 A charger... i do not wanna know how long it will take to fully charge this pack..
but it shows that high energy applications are doable and that they work...

@portacruise
what do you maen by 'dump'-charging?

Dump charging is a method of charging where a huge bank of the cheapest STATIONARY (lead) batteries is charged off the grid at up to the maximum rate allowed by the grid source. When an electric dragster is depleted and ready for recharge the huge bank is discharged at the maximum rate allowed in by the dragster battery, usually to a level well below maximum- say 80% capacity. As I recall, this technique was also used in the very early rail gun experiments, where thousands of car starting batteries in a bank were used to almost instantly deliver the huge current required. That was by far the cheapest way they found to get the required power without having impact on the grid. I haven't followed recent developments in those areas and don't know if they are still used today. They may be using huge portable generators (locomotive?) to do the same now AFAIK.

Porta

[portacruise]

Originally Posted by capt vimes

since e-dragtsers have been mentioned....
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php#2007s

scroll a little bit down... you will see fotos of a 880 'A123 systems' cell-pack of 175 lbs placed in the trunk of the car...
they pull 1400 amps max @ 374 V... no Ah are mentioned because it is of minor interest in a dragster appliaction...
here are the technical specs for this car...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

do not ask me about charging time because mentioned is only a 75 A charger... i do not wanna know how long it will take to fully charge this pack..
but it shows that high energy applications are doable and that they work...

@portacruise
what do you maen by 'dump'-charging?

Dump charging is a method of charging where a huge bank of the cheapest STATIONARY (lead) batteries is charged off the grid at up to the maximum rate allowed by the grid source. When an electric dragster is depleted and ready for recharge the huge bank is discharged at the maximum rate allowed in by the dragster battery, usually to a level well below maximum- say 80% capacity. As I recall, this technique was also used in the very early rail gun experiments, where thousands of car starting batteries in a bank were used to almost instantly deliver the huge current required. That was by far the cheapest way they found to get the required power without having impact on the grid. I haven't followed recent developments in those areas and don't know if they are still used today. They may be using huge portable generators (locomotive?) to do the same now AFAIK.

Porta

[CDK]

Originally Posted by capt vimes

since e-dragtsers have been mentioned....
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php#2007s

scroll a little bit down... you will see fotos of a 880 'A123 systems' cell-pack of 175 lbs placed in the trunk of the car...
they pull 1400 amps max @ 374 V... no Ah are mentioned because it is of minor interest in a dragster appliaction...
here are the technical specs for this car...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

do not ask me about charging time because mentioned is only a 75 A charger... i do not wanna know how long it will take to fully charge this pack..
but it shows that high energy applications are doable and that they work...

@portacruise
what do you maen by 'dump'-charging?

Plasmaboy, Whitezombie, Bubba controllers, that all sounds very scientific to me.
These guys can't even build a decent website, it is just one half mile long page.

The figures given are meaningless: 1400 amps @ 374 V is more than half a megawatt. The battery pack may have an open voltage of 374 V and when shorted there may briefly run 1400 amps before something burns out, but 1400 amps @ 374 V is something quite different. That is the amount of energy handled by Bombardier, GE or Siemens subway locs, not in a 30 years old Datsun with an 8" toy motor.