Batteries and New Battery Technologies

[portacruise]

Good news that someone else has joined the battery race. Making significant advances is not trivial because of chemical limitations however.

[BertKu]

I have searched the Internet and could also only find the article under 344. I wish that IBM had some more info, whether it is a super capacitor type or a chemical battery solution.
BertKu

[masalai]

A variation of lithium ion but with a different base to lithium in extremis cold-Sodium? otherwise something a little less reactive I hope...

[yipster]

those of you who read the paper proboat might have read it
for the digital issue look next month cause i dont like that subscribe first to view the newest number
or do you have your bonuscard and want jokers in the supermarked, that starts driving me nuts
what i want to say: proboat has this article online in the aug/sept issue page 52.
running the real world numbers on generating electricity, good article

[masalai]

Yipster, What year? 2009 is not available for non-subscribers?

[yipster]

sorry, your rite thats by year, thought it was only the last issue, numbers on new battery's, generators, propshaft generators, folding and trawling prop generators,
solar and wind generation etc and offcourse a mention of led lights, without hard copy that means you have to wait a half a year to view or subscribe

[BertKu]

Mij German friends informed me that the German Research Center "Fraunhofe Institute' has developed a new type of battery which is printed on any material you can think of. i.e. banknotes, postcards, items of your boat etc.
It is thinner than 1mm and weigh less than 1 gram. It is made of different layers, a zinc anode and a magnanese cathode. It gives 1,5 Volt and can be printed in serial to make a 12 Volt battery, by printing 8 of such batteries. It is a green type of battery and no murcary or unwanted raw materials is used. It pleases me to no end that a substantial effort is now being made to make new batteries and large funds are made avialable for this pirpose.

No, I haven't forgotten to make a super capacitor, give me until end of October. Those things take some time.
The purpose is :
a) to prove whether EEStor has a concept or that they are fooling us
b) That one can make a battery in the backyard
c) To flatten with electronics the sharp discharge curve of a capacitor to a more acceptable linear curve.

BertKu

""That is why they have decided to build the boldest battery yet that will put lithium ion to shame.
The next generation battery by IBM is said to be able to store 10X the power that today’s top lithium ions can handle. Now, some may scratch their heads as to why a computer company would want to build next generation batteries""

IBM Has a HISTORY of BS press releases just to mis direct competition and assist stock value,,
Anytime they "open their mouths" , take it with a grain of salt and think " SHOW ME " !!

Johnson Controls is NOW manufacturing for OEM's , Lithium Phosphate Batteries that have nearly twice the capacity per pound as Lithium Ion Batteries and at a comparable cost.
THIS is where government subsidies need to go,,, to increase production of these 100 fold and reduce the price by a magnitude of ten..

[brian eiland]

These fellows seem to be moving right along with commericalization of their technology

Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc. (Altairnano) (Nasdaq: ALTI), a leading provider of energy storage systems for clean, efficient power and energy management, today announced it has been selected by Proterra, a leading manufacturer of zero emission commercial transportation solutions, to deliver advanced battery modules for electric buses. The value of the contract is $898,400.

Under terms of the agreement, Altairnano will supply Proterra with advanced battery modules. Each module features Altairnano's 1P10S module configuration. The modules will be used by Proterra for building several EV and hybrid EV buses for municipalities and transportation authorities. The buses are predominately all-electric, 35-foot Proterra FCBE 35 transit buses.

Today's announcement follows 18-months of demonstration and testing of Altairnano's lithium-titanate battery modules by Proterra. Recent demonstrations of the FCBE 35 transit bus utilizing Altairnano's lithium titanate battery technology at the Pennsylvania Transportation Institute at Pennsylvania State University achieved over 20 miles per gallon in fuel economy equivalency testing. This achievement is recognized to be up to 400percent better than today's conventional diesel or competitor's hybrid transit buses.

"Altairnano's battery technology is a great fit supporting Proterra's expertise in the design and manufacturing of efficient, cost-effective, and environmentally responsible transit solutions," said Jeff Granato, CEO, Proterra. "Distinctive performance attributes of Altairnano's battery technology specific to our requirements include fast charging, long cycle life, and durability."

Designed for use in light duty and commercial HEV & EV applications, the 1P1 S module withstands the rigors of commercial transportation by offering high cycle life, reliability, and high power. The 1P10S module configuration features an operating temperature range between -40 degrees Celsius to +55 degrees Celsius, which enables battery modules to operate effectively in broad temperature extremes, from cold Boston winters to the summer heat of the Southwest. The battery modules utilize Altairnano's 50Ah cell, feature a 10-minute charge and provide a cycle life up to 9,000 100% depth of discharge cycles. Each module operates at 24 volts.

"Compared to other EV and HEV transportation applications, mass-transit reflects a more rapid path to the commercialization of our technology," said Terry Copeland, president and CEO. "Not only does it provide important top line revenue, but it also helps us build better power and energy management systems. Batteries for mass transit applications require safety, ruggedness, and reliability. These are the same attributes required for the energy and utility sector."

[masalai]

So what do they weigh, and how much for each 24V 50Ah module, I would need 8 to 10... configured to deliver 48V at 4000 to 6000 watts... and accept a charge at a 6000 to 7000 watt rate...

Originally Posted by BertKu

Mij German friends informed me that the German Research Center "Fraunhofe Institute' has developed a new type of battery which is printed on any material you can think of. i.e. banknotes, postcards, items of your boat etc.
BertKu

Well, that is a nice development, but will not serve our market in the near future unfortunately:

http://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/re...-batteries.jsp

Regards
Richard

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by apex1

Well, that is a nice development, but will not serve our market in the near future unfortunately:

Regards
Richard

Hi Richard,

Altough I fully agree with you at this momemt, I personnaly feel that it does not take long that somebody will come out with a rechargable battery. Can you picture 36 batteries printed on a mylo foil with a thicknes of less than 1 mm and than 500 sheets pressed on top of each other, to parrallel them and gives you the fast charging and discharging currents needed? 48 Volt battery for your boat? It will come, probbably in some years time. The weight will not be as heavy as lead acid batteries. But what I like is, that everybody is coming out with new idea's and one day somebody hit the absolute best idea. Is it EEstor? I don't know, time will learn.

BertKu

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by masalai

So what do they weigh, and how much for each 24V 50Ah module, I would need 8 to 10... configured to deliver 48V at 4000 to 6000 watts... and accept a charge at a 6000 to 7000 watt rate...

Hi Masalai,
Here is the data sheet. 1,6Kg per 2.3 Volt cell. You need thus 20 x 10 x ??Dollars or otherwise said 320 kg for 7Kwhour at 48 Volt. Not too bad. The cells looks quite suitable for a boat.

http://www.b2i.cc/Document/546/50Ah_...eet-012209.pdf

BertKu

Originally Posted by BertKu

Hi Richard,
Altough I fully agree with you at this momemt, I personnaly feel that it does not take long that somebody will come out with a rechargable battery. Can you picture 36 batteries printed on a mylo foil with a thicknes of less than 1 mm and than 500 sheets pressed on top of each other, to parrallel them and gives you the fast charging and discharging currents needed? 48 Volt battery for your boat? It will come, probbably in some years time. The weight will not be as heavy as lead acid batteries. But what I like is, that everybody is coming out with new idea's and one day somebody hit the absolute best idea. Is it EEstor? I don't know, time will learn.
BertKu

I´m sure we will see further developments in this technology, and not somebody will come with it (Fraunhofer already announced some steps), but I´m as sure it will take some years before a affordable and reliable accu pack is on the market. I will be amongst the first to applaude (and buy).

Richard