Batteries and New Battery Technologies

[CDK]

Originally Posted by masalai

Two please - - "...Ceramatec says its new generation of battery would deliver a continuous flow of 5 kilowatts of electricity over four hours, with 3,650 daily discharge/recharge cycles over 10 years. With the batteries expected to sell in the neighborhood of $2,000, that translates to less than 3 cents per kilowatt hour over the battery's life. ..." - - but when the exchange rate is a bit more favourable - does anyone know of any adverse issues and weight & size and DC voltage? (I need 48VDC)... - - That is a 20KW/H capacity? each - phew!!!

It may be that we are on the brink of a whole new era, but until such products have been tested and available ex warehouse, it all sounds a bit like Star Trek talk to me.
Recently I saw a TV news item about a Dutch company that claims to have developed a low rpm 50 KW electric motor with a weight of just 14,5 kg. I am familiar with the country, even the farmer's village that is mentioned as the company address...... Hardly a place for breakthrough technology.

Could it be that such stories are only intended to attract investors?

[Landlubber]

CDK,

Could be, but that also laughed at the Wright Bros when they said they could fly........someone has to do it, we have to just keep looking and learning.

[Boston]

funny thing is you guys are both right on
there are phonies every which way you turn
and there are break throughs coming down the pipe every day
its sorting out the hype from the real deal thats a full time job

[masalai]

I had concerns about Sodium - and further research tells me it is VERY reactive with water - that makes me kinda nervous.... break the membrane and ...................

[Landlubber]

Do not ever play withh Sodium, not for boys toys.

It will eat through you and keep on going........serious.

[masalai]

That is similar to what I read so are those new batteries "fraught with danger" to put it mildly?

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

Here is a new one that I have just found out about, sounds very interesting, first time I have seen anything that can be cheaper than the grid system.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/305052/

You might go back and read this article again. I believe you will find that this tech is not aimed at the boating market, but rather homes (in the basement). Some excerpts:


In the years since, electric cars have remained on the sexy-tech list, with substantial industry efforts aimed at developing various flavors of zippy batteries to power them. Ceramatec had other ideas, recognizing a vast potential market for a different sort of power -- for homes.

"With a house, you don't need to get energy in and out instantaneously. You need huge amounts of storage capacity," says MIT's Nocera. "That suggests a different commercial market and different technical restraints and opportunities."


This is where the earth moves for renewable energy. The new electrolyte enables the development of an energy-dense, inexpensive and safe storage battery for use at home. Combined with the rapidly emerging thin-film solar cells, it presents an unparalleled business opportunity.

Contrasting with Ceramatec's vision of many small home-based power centers with refrigerator-size batteries, this project is another mainframe -- albeit fueled by wind

The long-term impact of home electric generation for a power company's business model could be huge. After all, you can't stay in business if nobody's paying for power. Exactly how that will play out remains to be seen.


...and this is not out on a farmer's village **:
Ceramatec was founded in 1976 by a group of University of Utah professors who made important contributions to the sodium-sulphur battery technology being pursued by Ford Motor Company for vehicles at the time. Those early liquid-core batteries didn't pan out well for transportation, though, because of their size and weight, and because of the extremely harsh internal chemical conditions required for them to work.

The prize is the culmination of 10 years of research and testing -- a new generation of deep-storage battery that's small enough, and safe enough, to sit in your basement and power your home.

It promises to nudge the world to a paradigm shift as big as the switch from centralized mainframe computers in the 1980s to personal laptops. But this time the mainframe is America's antiquated electrical grid; and the switch is to personal power stations in millions of individual homes.


**Not to disparage against developments 'out on the farm', often there are very inventive people working in their own little back shops. I think Micros0ft got it start in a garage atmosphere.

[brian eiland]

A few recent presentations concerning this technology

http://www.ewww.energeticstechnologi...FRYpFQodQm8DcA

[JonathanCole]

This looks promising;
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/...ery-technology

[brian eiland]

RENO, Nev. – May 28, 2009 – Altair Nanotechnologies Inc. (Altairnano) (Nasdaq: ALTI), a leading provider of energy storage systems for clean, efficient power and energy management, today announced a $3.8 million contract award from the Office of Naval Research (ONR). This award is for the continued research and design of Altairnano's large-scale nano lithium titanate energy-storage systems for possible use as an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) on Navy ships.

"Our advanced battery technology is advancing the quest for a safe, less costly and environmentally friendlier substitute for fossil-fuel burning turbines," said Terry M. Copeland, Ph.D., Altairnano's president and chief executive officer. "The design and development of a 500-kW energy-storage unit paves the way for the Navy to dramatically change how vessels respond to requirements for efficient, redundant, and safe power availability. Given the number of ships to which Altairnano's technology could be applied, this electrical storage and rapid power delivery system could reduce the Navy's fuel consumption by tens of millions of gallons each year."

On Navy vessels today, two gas-turbine generators are kept online to guarantee power availability. An Altairnano battery solution provides the ability to run only one turbine at a more efficient capacity. If there is a problem with the primary generator, the Altairnano UPS would provide enough power to allow a second generator to be started and put online, avoiding the cost of keeping two generators running continuously. It is estimated the fuel cost savings alone would near $1 million per vessel for a six-month cruise.

This contract, the continuation of an earlier award announced in 2008, is for the additional engineering, design, and testing of Altairnano's advanced battery systems for use on Navy ships. The second phase of this contract includes construction and delivery of a 500-kW energy-storage unit for operational testing by ONR. During this phase Altairnano will produce this unit for performance testing, smaller-scale modules for safety testing and conduct other cell, safety and ship integration studies. The engagement starts immediately with contract completion anticipated by July 1, 2010.

...also look back to posting #3, #55, #61, #123

[masalai]

I await without holding my breath - external problems lie ahead - imminent collapse of US economy due to Comex fraud and massive naked short positions which fall due for delivery all too soon....

[mydauphin]

Masalai, US economy and World Economy is a constant rise or fall. But we will survive and the tide will rise gain. Fortunately for me, I was born in previous rising tide. Unfortunately, for my children, they will live most of their younger lives in a falling tide.

That is just the way it is. If someone tries to control it, they will fail and it will be worse. Inflation is coming, that is not all bad. It is the tide that forgive debts. It also destroys it. It will be a different world in 5 years. It will be different again in 15 years. Yes, years....

As far as technology, I have seem technological hope rise and fall at least three times in my life. In 1975 everyone thought we would have a base on the Moon and have gone to Mars by 2001. No one thought of Satellite tv, PCs or Cell phones, internet, CD, video, these where something out of Star-Trek. Then 15 years later they where commonplace. Today many have never lived without them. Anyway the marketplace of demand and supply will produce the next great products. Along the way many will fail, many are scams, and some will be commonplace. The next cell phone could be around the corner.
The low economic tide will delay everything and bring the hucksters out...

[masalai]

So true, what gets my goat is that we (humanity) never seem to learn from earlier errors/mistakes/stupidity etc. - - with the all to common rejoinder being "...we have things better organised this time so no problems...", but the **** still finds the fan and splatters everywhere it did last time - Viewed from some distance the issues and errors, it seems that a child should see what is wrong... Australia is worse, as with the better overall vision afforded by some distance - we seem to slavishly follow the US lead, having witnessed the absurdity of the failing concept, applied just months earlier.... Humans are sometimes just too bloody stupid (me included)... History does repeat and follow previous bad examples with stunning accuracy...

I just get frustrated, as, in my research I can see what is happening, - - and what should be done, - - and am all too aware of the endemic corruption and cartel like behaviour of what I call the "money controllers" are doing, - - all they can to squeeze the last dime from the trusting citizenry in the name of selfish/personal greed and motivated by an urge to control the world... (I often add a bit of story line, - as, - in cold hard facts is too bloody scary and painful...)

I had a "PC" made as a kit/bits & pieces in '76 - and started my degree studies in '77 (information processing it was then called) - My first bought box had a z80 cpu and 512K of page mode RAM and was an Amstrad pcw9512 and had a paper white screen, CPM OS with 2 x 3" fdd OS was 78K and Office suite was FANTASTIC for its day with a relational database, wisiwig (sort of), spell-check, spreadsheet and incredibly effective intuitive design - That OS & office programmed by nerds in Assembler - fast and efficient - not like today's retarded rubbish... fond memories....

[mydauphin]

My first "PC" was a Radio Shack Model I.... 1k ram. upgraded later 4k... Then built my own in a cardboard box modified Commodore pet/vic20/c64 , I think blew more things up than got working..

My first computer job was Samsung CPM z80 64k ram, we programmed a large business MIS in basic....

Like they say today my cell phone is more powerful than all the computers in US combine at that time....

Humanity has no cure, because we repeat the same mistake. Our children will suffer from the same things again....

Oh, by the way electric car can before the gasoline car....
What is old is new again....
Diesel was an old concept and it is coming back
Next will be two strokes, steam engines and coal to heat our homes

What the heck does this have to do with batteries.... I don't know - but I wonder if the new kids on the block really know the physics or chemistries needed to create anything new. Or they just dream of future without the knowledge, or will, to make it happen...

[masalai]

Oh sorry did not read the topic header - Well I am still looking and found nothing economically viable YET so will probably go with Optima Yellow top D34/78, 2 banks of 4, one under the aft port berth and the other under the aft starboard berth, but that could change as they will not be needed for 6 or so months - when fitout is nearing completion and launch date is close...

I am toying with the idea of using annealed and insulated copper water pipe as the alternative to tinned "welding" cables to feed the electric motors and charging from the solar panels and diesel engined generator... Any comments? please post on my build (link below - in "signature") Thanks