Aluminium boat out of one piece - self casted, one big mold...

[pedalingbiped]

Why make a farmer get on a boat and travel 1000 k to sell 3 bags of food?
Why not start a commodities business and guarantee the farmers a set price for their crop, then you take it to the city and sell at a profit. You can have your own boat to make the rounds.

I don't see how you can compete with barges pushed by a tug because of their scale of economy.

This link was posted before, it is of a a sailboat with 25 ton cargo capability.
http://www.dixdesign.com/cargo50.

You could load 1000 50lb bags.

With sail you reduce your dependence on fuel. You still have an motor to help when you can't tack.

On the Dix website he discusses what materials to use. Steel can be used in less skilled areas.

Or buy a barge and put a car engine on it to drive a prop.

Again, I don't think you can compete with the barges for passengers or freight unless you can be paid more for faster service.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by SheetWise

You must hang with a lot of bi-polar people.



Yup. Now you're on track. Those are the two parties I was talking about. You're representing the one to the left of left -- right?

Well, they certainly seem bipolar to me....

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Why make a farmer get on a boat and travel 1000 k to sell 3 bags of food?
Why not start a commodities business and guarantee the farmers a set price for their crop, then you take it to the city and sell at a profit. You can have your own boat to make the rounds.

I don't see how you can compete with barges pushed by a tug because of their scale of economy.

This link was posted before, it is of a a sailboat with 25 ton cargo capability.
http://www.dixdesign.com/cargo50.

You could load 1000 50lb bags.

With sail you reduce your dependence on fuel. You still have an motor to help when you can't tack.

On the Dix website he discusses what materials to use. Steel can be used in less skilled areas.

Or buy a barge and put a car engine on it to drive a prop.

Again, I don't think you can compete with the barges for passengers or freight unless you can be paid more for faster service.

When you are probably right on most if not all points, the sad reality is that whichever the right solution to the problem may be, IT MUST COME FROM THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE PROBLEM. There is no point in playing the saviour with magical solutions or the secret millionaire with prodigious philanthropy. The ONLY definite and permanent solution is the one that comes from the grass roots made by themselves.
If no on in the farming community is willing to organise transportation, anyone that wants to do it for them is doomed to fail. People shape their own reality.

[SheetWise]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Well, they certainly seem bipolar to me....

Political parties or your cronies? Sorry Troy -- on the spectrum of political thought, they're both left of center. The only difference I can tell between them is that one party actually recognizes that there may be unintended consequences to their actions. It doesn't often restrain them -- but they seem to be aware of it.

[SheetWise]

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Why make a farmer get on a boat and travel 1000 k to sell 3 bags of food?
Why not start a commodities business and guarantee the farmers a set price for their crop, then you take it to the city and sell at a profit. You can have your own boat to make the rounds.

Commodities trading is only possible in an advanced society. You do realize that a farmer would be required to deliver crops at an agreed price even if the market price was double what had been agreed to. These types of agreements don't function very well in the absence of property rights and the rule of law. When contracts can't be enforced, costs cannot be predicted, and capital does not feel welcome. The first step to fixing the problems that have been described is having the people create and submit to a legal authority which honors their agreements -- as agreed.

May I ask why the FAO boats still are so completely out of focus here?

Is it because there is no profit in them?

Or because the stuff to build them lays around in heaps and is to have for pennies?

Regards
Richard

[congoriver]

FYI: the only recent initiative I found, is by the African Wildlife Foundation (AWF), which launched a shipping project a few years ago.

http://www.awf.org/content/solution/detail/3582

They say:

Encouraging agriculture isn’t often seen as a conservation measure. But, all too often, AWF has witnessed that the abandonment of farming can reap havoc on other precious resources. Just look at the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Years of civil war destroyed the infrastructure that allowed farmers along the banks of the Congo and Maringa Rivers to bring their crops to market. Desperate farmers and residents fled deeper into the forest in search of food, causing great destruction to the forests. Locals even began hunting bonobos in search of meat, taking a huge toll on the population of this threatened species.

[...]

As part of an Agricultural Reactivation Project that aims to reduce pressure on forests, AWF conducted a socio-economic study from July to October 2004 to gather feedback and insights from Congolese farmers in hopes of finding a solution that would help restore agricultural activity and encourage them to return to their fields.

Farmers indicated that the lack of access to markets was the primary factor preventing them from selling their agricultural products. In response, AWF partnered with a local cargo barge operator to reactivate commercial transport on the Congo and Maringa Rivers.

The cargo barge’s round trip journey took two months and covers 3,200 kilometers. The boat which can carry approximately 700 tons of cargo, stopped in six ports and collected agricultural goods to sell in the capital, Kinshasa, as well as other major markets. AWF alerted local communities to the boat’s schedule and provided them with empty sacks to ship their crops.

So they simply "partnered" with a boat operator, but weren't involved in actually building boats themselves.

[congoriver]

Originally Posted by troy2000

The reality is that infrastructure along the Congo River, including steamer travel and the railroads that bypass the falls, has gone to Hell. One 'solution' is to sneer at the people who are trapped in that situation, and smugly talk about how it's their own fault.

A smarter approach might be to figure out how to encourage inexpensive, localized alternatives to the failed infrastructure. You know...stuff like coming up with designs for simple, inexpensive boats that are cheap to operate. Which I think was the intent of this thread....

Thanks, I couldn't have put it better myself.

This is the entire goal of this thread.

I'm even willing to go as far as to say that it's ME who's looking for a (adventurous) investment opportunity (so we can avoid comments dealing with the "laziness of the natives").

[congoriver]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

Why did the infrastructure "go to Hell?" The people are still there. The tools are still there, or did everything get looted so the "beloved leaders" could all drive Mercedes at the expense of the populace? If the government doesn't want people to thrive, as they obviously don't in the Congo, no matter how hard the people try, their efforts will be swept away. Big Government = Big Problem.

Why did the infrastructure go to hell?

Because Congo experienced the worst war since the Second World War.

Five million dead people, and 13 nations involved in what's been dubbed "Africa's World War".

That's why.

[congoriver]

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Why make a farmer get on a boat and travel 1000 k to sell 3 bags of food?

The idea is obviously to transport the products of more than 1 farmer. The point was that 1 farmer doesn't have the financial resources to invest in his own boat. 100 farmers don't either.

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Why not start a commodities business and guarantee the farmers a set price for their crop, then you take it to the city and sell at a profit. You can have your own boat to make the rounds.

That's an interesting idea, but I prefer that the farmers have some ownership over the entire chain. I don't like it when they get reduced to people selling their products to middle men.

However, as a start, this might be good, provided they can save some money and become owners of the other parts of the chain later on.

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

I don't see how you can compete with barges pushed by a tug because of their scale of economy.

I think it's possible because there simply aren't enough barges around. Farmers prefer to sell their product even at a bad price, over letting it rot. That's their only choice.

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

This link was posted before, it is of a a sailboat with 25 ton cargo capability.
http://www.dixdesign.com/cargo50.

You could load 1000 50lb bags.

With sail you reduce your dependence on fuel. You still have an motor to help when you can't tack.

On the Dix website he discusses what materials to use. Steel can be used in less skilled areas.

Unfortunately, there is no wind on the Congo River (at least not enough to make a sailboat work.) That's why there are no sailboats on that river, not even tiny ones. People just paddle.

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Or buy a barge and put a car engine on it to drive a prop.

That's something I'll be investigating when I return to Congo, which is in a few days time.

Refurbishing an old barge/tug might be the most cost-effective solution.

Originally Posted by pedalingbiped

Again, I don't think you can compete with the barges for passengers or freight unless you can be paid more for faster service.

Well, this is something of great interest: there are sectors that need rapid transport, which, if you can organise it, will certainly make you money. This is the case for live products such as fresh fish and maggots, which are in great demand in cities.

[congoriver]

Originally Posted by Marco1

When you are probably right on most if not all points, the sad reality is that whichever the right solution to the problem may be, IT MUST COME FROM THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE PROBLEM. There is no point in playing the saviour with magical solutions or the secret millionaire with prodigious philanthropy. The ONLY definite and permanent solution is the one that comes from the grass roots made by themselves.
If no on in the farming community is willing to organise transportation, anyone that wants to do it for them is doomed to fail. People shape their own reality.

In short, you own your own nuclear power plant and your own hydroelectric station to provide you with electricity. Do you?

No you don't.

What you say borders on the absurd. A modern society works exactly the opposite way of what you think.

In modern societies, people specialise in niches, and others buy into those services or technologies.

You don't make your own computer. You buy one, because there are people who know how to make computers while you don't.

Common, let's get to reality please.


The best thing for a farmer is to be a better farmer. Not to be a lousy farmer and a lousy boat builder at the same time.

[congoriver]

Originally Posted by apex1

May I ask why the FAO boats still are so completely out of focus here?

Is it because there is no profit in them?

Or because the stuff to build them lays around in heaps and is to have for pennies?

Regards
Richard

Richard, the FAO boats are great, but they are probably too small for our purpose.

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by congoriver

In short, you own your own nuclear power plant and your own hydroelectric station to provide you with electricity. Do you?

No you don't.

What you say borders on the absurd. A modern society works exactly the opposite way of what you think.

In modern societies, people specialise in niches, and others buy into those services or technologies.

You don't make your own computer. You buy one, because there are people who know how to make computers while you don't.

Common, let's get to reality please.


The best thing for a farmer is to be a better farmer. Not to be a lousy farmer and a lousy boat builder at the same time.

Just so. You don't truck or ship your own goods. You hire a transport company to ship them for you.

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by congoriver

Richard, the FAO boats are great, but they are probably too small for our purpose.

Business grows because it starts small, leaving room for growth. If you can't afford a super freighter, you start with what you have and grow as you make a profit, being frugal throughout the process(assuming the government permits it).

[RAraujo]

Ok. The FAO boats seem to small...
How much cargo shall the boat transport? How many persons (high value)?
Extension and duration of the voyage? Which are the navigation constraints (current speed, depth, etc.)? Which are the facilities available (or easily made available)?
It might be better to consider a several stages operation not trying to cover, from start, the whole 3200km.
Maybe a type of landing craft could be considered (no port facilities needed, easy embarkation and desembarkation,...)

I've just read the link you suggested from AWF:
QUOTE
Unfortunately, the barge’s first trip was not without its complications. On November 12, 2005, one of the barges was confiscated by the Congolese military to transport soldiers from Basankusu to Mbandaka.
QUOTE

With this type of events it will be difficult to have investors putting money on this...