advise on Pinisi wood boats

[reveur]

Hello Everyone,

I have a few questions about Pinisi boats made in Indonesia.

I sailed a long time ago in Greece once but I am absolutely not able to skip a boat and know very little about boating/sailing but I am interested.

Since I am expatriate in indonesia, I have seen a few Pinisi ships here made in Sulawasi island and went to see the builders. They seems to be very nice boats and prices are incredible...
Then, I just wonder if it is not the right opportunity to learn how to sail/skip & build my little boat (around 40/60 ft) to be used by family and friends while I am here and to take it back to Europe when my time here is over.

If anybody can give me some advise about this idea (and problems that can occurs) ?

1) is it difficult to skip a such boat (is 1 skipper sufficient ?)
2) what kind of engines (for a boat around 50 ft) do I need and how much do they cost ?
3) what kind of equipment do I need and what is roughly its cost ?
4) why don't we see more of those beautiful boats in Europe ?
5) will It be a problem to take a such boat made of "tropical woods" to western Europe where climate (winter, humidity) is so different

Any advise appreciated,
Thanks

[tseery]

Reveur,

I fully agree that Phinisi boats are incredible. The Ara boat builders of Sulawesi are incredibly talented at what they do. They build boats up to 50m with little more than a chainsaw, drill, and some hand tools. Constructing a 40/60 ft wooden boat in Indonesia is extremely economical and can be built very fast. Currently, I am working on a 30m Phinisi being built close to Kendari. The hull, deck, and interior structure are now finished an they started on April 27, 2008. However, there are plenty of head aches before you get your desired finished product. Finding genuine marine grade parts can be challenging but not impossible in Jakarta or Surabaya and importing supplies from Singapore or Thailand can be expensive. Furthermore, project managment at the sight can be difficult to ensure the boat builders are using good quality timber and you are getting a finished product that you are happy with.

I am an expatriate living in Bali and would be happy to answer your questions regarding your project. I am working for a company that currently operates one 36m Phinisi and are building another 30m vessel. I am one of the Yacht designers for the project and the project manager for the new build. Please just send me your email and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

[reveur]

Sorry for my late reply.
I probably saw your boat underconstruction last time I went to see the ship builders near Bira. There were several being made for Dutch and German companies working in Bali if I remember well. They were all quite large (at least 30 meters) and one was especially impressive.

Since you have experience with this matter, is it more interesting to build in Sulawasi or in Kalimantan ? I heard that many builders moved to Kalimantan because of shortage of good wood in Sulawasi.

I have a couple of questions if you have time to answer :

1) how difficult is it to skip a such boat, I mean how many people are truely needed to sail a let's say 18/20 meters pinisi ketch ?
2) What is the salary of an Indonesian pinisi captain (I can find out here in Sunda Kelapa but if you can give me a rough idea) ?
3) Is the ships entirely built in Bira or finishing is made somewhere else like in Bali or Jave ?
4) how much cost the extra (Marine Radar, Echo Sounder, GPS Navigator, VHF Radios ...)
5) what about pirates in Indonesia, did you ever heard about any pirating problems in your cruises (outside Sumatra because I suppose most of them are there) ?
thanks

[DonFernando]

Originally Posted by reveur

Sorry for my late reply.
I probably saw your boat underconstruction last time I went to see the ship builders near Bira. There were several being made for Dutch and German companies working in Bali if I remember well. They were all quite large (at least 30 meters) and one was especially impressive.

Since you have experience with this matter, is it more interesting to build in Sulawasi or in Kalimantan ? I heard that many builders moved to Kalimantan because of shortage of good wood in Sulawasi.

I have a couple of questions if you have time to answer :

1) how difficult is it to skip a such boat, I mean how many people are truely needed to sail a let's say 18/20 meters pinisi ketch ?
2) What is the salary of an Indonesian pinisi captain (I can find out here in Sunda Kelapa but if you can give me a rough idea) ?
3) Is the ships entirely built in Bira or finishing is made somewhere else like in Bali or Jave ?
4) how much cost the extra (Marine Radar, Echo Sounder, GPS Navigator, VHF Radios ...)
5) what about pirates in Indonesia, did you ever heard about any pirating problems in your cruises (outside Sumatra because I suppose most of them are there) ?
thanks

Hello,

reveur are you french ?
i just want to built a 18/20 meters phinisi boat in Sulawesi, next month.
Do you have more information ?
In fact, the problem is to contole the quality of the wood during the construction... Right ?
Sorry for my english : i m french.

[DonFernando]

Originally Posted by tseery

Reveur,

I fully agree that Phinisi boats are incredible. The Ara boat builders of Sulawesi are incredibly talented at what they do. They build boats up to 50m with little more than a chainsaw, drill, and some hand tools. Constructing a 40/60 ft wooden boat in Indonesia is extremely economical and can be built very fast. Currently, I am working on a 30m Phinisi being built close to Kendari. The hull, deck, and interior structure are now finished an they started on April 27, 2008. However, there are plenty of head aches before you get your desired finished product. Finding genuine marine grade parts can be challenging but not impossible in Jakarta or Surabaya and importing supplies from Singapore or Thailand can be expensive. Furthermore, project managment at the sight can be difficult to ensure the boat builders are using good quality timber and you are getting a finished product that you are happy with.

I am an expatriate living in Bali and would be happy to answer your questions regarding your project. I am working for a company that currently operates one 36m Phinisi and are building another 30m vessel. I am one of the Yacht designers for the project and the project manager for the new build. Please just send me your email and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

Hello,

i ve got the project to build a 18/20 meters phinisi, next month, in Bira.
Can you tell me if i can find somebody to help me to control the good quality timber ?
My brother and his wife live in Bali but they are not sailor !

Thank you very much and sorry for my english : i m french...

[timothy22]

May I suggest

http://www.kastenmarine.com/phinisi_quality.htm

for a discussion of construction of the type by am American naval architect who has designed and built several of them.

In the section on history of the type he adresses the question of timber quality.

[DonFernando]

Thanks a lot Timothy !

[bertho]

hi reveur ! don't dream... you will get just for your money ! ( hazardous shape, approximative adjustement, steel fastening, heavy displacement and so) but it's a great experience.. . try to contact Paul at www.promaritim.com, architect leaving in Bali and very good knohow about the bad..and good experience about pinisi boat !
have fun, and good luck
bertho

[Schoonerman]

for complete insight on this subject review http://www.songlinecruuses.com

[Schoonerman]

1) is it difficult to skip a such boat (is 1 skipper sufficient ?) UNDER 30M YES
2) what kind of engines (for a boat around 50 ft) do I need and how much do they cost ? USED 8 OR 6 CYLD COST FROM 5 TO 10,000USD
3) what kind of equipment do I need and what is roughly its cost ? BASIC NAVIGATION PACKAGE 2500USD
4) why don't we see more of those beautiful boats in Europe ? THERE ARE SOME BUT THE DELIVERY IS AN EXPEDITION IN IT SELF
5) will It be a problem to take a such boat made of "tropical woods" to western Europe where climate (winter, humidity) is so different NOT A PROBLEM WE HAVE ONE THAT HAS SPENT TIME IN THE BALTIC SEA AND THAT SAME BOAT IS NOT IN BRAZIL

[reveur]

Hi Don Fernando,
Yes I am French but not a sailor neither !
I live in Indonesia and visited Bira (Sulawasi) in september, I can tell you what I know/see/believe so far.
Those ships and the way they are built is extremely impressive !
Bugis people are friendly and were more than happy to show me the interior of the ships they were building (I have many pictures), I would say that when you see them (boats) you love them ... specially for the price.
However, I live in Indonesia and I know Indonesia so I know that what you want/ask is not always what you get. Basically, I would say that I came to the conclusion that there are 2 "more or less" safe ways to proceed.
1) let a local experimented company (often run by foreigners) surpervise everything and make the QC and help you but... in general it is not cheap (but probably much cheaper than a ship you cannot use) at all.
2) Maybe start to built a small ship first and then move to a larger one.
Then eventually find a bugis sailor (maybe retired) who can help you for about everything. I met a few in the old harbour of Jakarta. Take a plane to Makassar every 2 weeks to check progress and make regular payments and maybe you can get good results.
The best would be to see a boat you really like under construction and ask just a copy of it. Unfortunately I did not see in Bira any ships of 18/20 meters for cruising. They are either much bigger (over 30) and then use for cruising between Bali-Lombok-Sumba or Sumbawa or for local people for transport.
if you are concerned about the timber, you should know that the best timber come from Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo) so many boat builders moved to Kalimantan, I went there last month but not to see the boat builders so I cannot help you but I know where they are located.

My opinion is that unless you live in indonesia, the only option is number 1 but still you need to find serious people, you must come here to see yourself and always be careful. As I said, it would not come as cheap as you may think (specially if foreigners are involved). However, if you take a short cut, you can also be lucky and everything fine but I would not take the risk.

Thank you Schoonerman, it is a very useful information.

[DonFernando]

Salut Reveur,

Merci de ta longue réponse qui m'éclaire sur les phinisi. En fait, je connais Bira et les phinisis suite à un voyage que j'ai fait quand j'étais tout jeune il y a une quinzaine d'années... A l'époque, j'étais resté 10 jours pour voir se construire le bateau d'un couple d'anglais. L'idée de faire construire un bateau est venue à ce moment mais bon, la vie professionnelle avant tout.
Maintenant que j'ai un peu de temps, je pense pouvoir le faire construire et rester sur place le plus possible : je travaille en effet en free lance à Hong Kong, Saigon et Shangai et mon frère vit à Manado et Bali (mais il n'y connait rien en bateau).

J'ai encore un tas de questions mais le mieux est d'aller voir sur place... Je vais surement partir en Avril ou Mai. Une dernière question cependant : connais tu un bon constructeur et une bonne compagnie s'occupant de "tout" ???

Et ton bateau à toi ? Il me semblait que tu avais envie d'en construire un ?!

Merci encore !

[reveur]

Hi Don Fernando,

I am still considering it but nothing has been decided. It is extremely tempting since there are so much you can do here with a boat like that but .... I do not know how to skip a boat, my wife is scared of pirats (which seems to be numerous here) and more important is really that I know nothing about boat construction and specially this kind of traditionnal boats so there is a lot of challenge before my dream can come true. Even your brother know nothing about boat construction, he probably knows how business is made in Indonesia (with locals but even with the foreign/French community in Bali...) and it is also very important...
There are 2 others points I forgot to tell you is that it seems that he interior decoration of the boats is often made in Bali or Java and due to the design of the boat, you need a large boat to be confortable inside comparatively to a modern boat.
No I do not know anyone to recommend, maybe Schoonermam and a few others on this forum can help you... If you go to Bira, the best fist step is probably to go with someone who speak Bahasa Indo (like a tourist guide) and go along the 1-2 km beach where all boat builders are working and see their bosses.
Keep me/us posted about your progress with your boat.

[Schoonerman]

As your plans continue to evolve, if there is anything we can do to assist you, please do fell free to contact me. I have been doing business in Bira, for the last 18 years and our contruction projects can be visited anytime !

Robin
Schoonerman

[outbackmovies]

Originally Posted by Schoonerman

As your plans continue to evolve, if there is anything we can do to assist you, please do fell free to contact me. I have been doing business in Bira, for the last 18 years and our contruction projects can be visited anytime !

Robin
Schoonerman

Hey Robin, Can you advise a site to go to to find out the survey requirements for a 30m vessel (10 pass) operating in Indonesian waters and what tickets a skipper and crew must hold.
I've been searching everywhere and can't find a thing.
Cheers Rick