70ft+ steel , cheap plans

[genesis]

basicallG'Day All I am searching for my ideal boat. I know people will say,oh thats to big, you dont need steel etc... but please suggest anyuseful information you can.
Basically I am looking for a serious long distance offshore cruising yacht, built of steel. with a LOA of 70ft +..........that is inexpensive to purchase wrt plans.
I was looking at Coliin Acher type double enders, but they are in the 40ft range at max and are not built of steel.
I dont mind if it is a double ender..nor for that mattter a flushed deck type traditional design...I just need it to be of steel, 70ft+ LOD...designed for offshore voyaging.
I was looking at the bruce roberts 76ft...but have read of structral failiures wrt the bottom...(I was offered it on the heap too wrt price). I have seen dudly dix 70ft hout Bay...looks good....chaep plans to wrt price as they are incomplete.... (any strucral faults by tis designer???)... But there must be other designs out there for me to consider.
please email me if you like
genesis01@dodo.com.au
regards
Peter

[gonzo]

I think it makes no sense to be cheap with the design. Everything in the boat stems from it. If it is cheap, that's what the boat quality and performance will reflect.

[8knots]

I think the old addage "You get what you pay for" Is as true as ever. I read someplace that a custom designed Yacht will cost 3-5% of the total construction cost. Thats a REAL set of plans with a involved designer. I have thought of purchasing plans from the firms you mentioned but found them unsatisfactory because of the compromises they had to make in the designs so an average Joe could construct them in the backyard. I think custom 1 off (LRC'S) in the 70'+ range would run $2 million+ A little math and a few calls to professional design firms will crush the idea of "cheap"
So....... Being a normal guy like myself I would consider buying lots of books and a lot of paper and start doodling at least enough to grasp what is involved and narrow down your dream vessel then take your educated sketches to a real designer and pay them to review and revise as nessasary. Your finished product will be the best "your" boat can be! They can take the design as far as you are willing to pay so to speak, even CNC cutting files you can take to have the major components torch cut and shipped as the other guys offer. But in the end it will be exactly what you want and you will have a good working knowledge of construction and know why things are why they are.
Option 2 would be go find an old retired fishing trawler or tug and break out the sawzall and make her you own
Oh yeah and your wallet
BOAT stands for.....
B, Break
O, Out
A, Another
T, Thousand
I wish you all the luck in the world
8Knots

[BrettM]

Peter,

What the other two have said pretty much covers it. Getting the input from a designer/NA from the word go will hopefully save you a lot of heartache. In reality, their job is to not just provide a design but to communicate it to whoever is building it.

Brett

[Willallison]

1st, let me say that I concur completely and then some with all that's been said to date. But if you want to take a peak at others design work a good place to start is in the directory on this site http://boatdesign.net/directory/
You will find links to both plans and designers there.

Basically a design fee for a complete set of drawings, including developing the CNC code to burn the all the parts is about the same as the cost of the raw steel. (3-5% is about right, BTW).

On the other hand, some designers will sell you a 3 sheet set of plans for a $200. However, it will take the rest of your life to build the boat, and the result will be a dog's breakfast.

Your choice.

The 3% - 5% figure above is the price for a new, from scratch design, by the way.

Of course, if you are laying out the $ and work for a 70' boat, it just makes a world of sense to buy a stock design suited for someone else's needs to save some money.

You could also buy an old Navy landing craft and put sails on it.

[gonzo]

genesis:
Is that Bruce Roberts built professionally? He has a good record as a designer and would be a great source for stock plans. Cheap plans usually mean you are on your own. They don't include construction details, welding schedules or structural calculations. If you are experienced enough, a set of lines is fine. However, be prepared for the two weeks of solid math to get the rest.

[edneu]

70' seems bit huge, you will be needing a bit of a crew. Sounds to me like a burdensome way to cruise. Anyway, the customer is always right, so with those specifications, I would not discount Bruce Roberts, he has some good cruising designs and I believe he provides detailed plans with development of plates etc. I would not assume they are really cheap, but compared to the price of a 70' steel yacht it will be small, also bad plans are a false economy. They will require huge amounts of lofting and checking, involving lots of math and introducing error.

I would also investigate whether the structural failure you mentioned on the 76’ Roberts design may have been a construction rather than a design flaw. I have seen some Bruce Roberts Spray’s in Steel and they appear to be indestructible.

Does it have to be a sailboat? There are all kinds of crew boats, fishing trawlers, and shrimp boats available, fairly cheap per ton compared with a yacht.

Good luck in your quest.

BTW, I really love the phase in the above posting “and the result will be a dog's breakfast".

[Roy Abrams]

if you can do with 50 ft no frills very easy and cheap to build single hander 16/18ton steel ive have full plans including developed surfaces for profiling Email me at
royabrams@btconnect.com

[PAR]

Anyone looking for a 70' yacht and is quite serious about the design and construction of this yacht, wouldn't even blink at the costs of a custom set of plans.

Having designed and built a few large yachts, I can assure you this fellow hasn't the resources necessary, nor the ability needed for the decisions required in a construction project of this scope.

Folks looking at multi million dollar investments do not low ball the concepts, planning or over all design.

What we have here is a fisherman . . . a clueless one at that . . .

[Polarity]

You might try posting this on the Metal Boat society:

http://www.metalboatsociety.com

They can also give you lots of "been there done that" experience re building, designers,costs, time etc etc.

Good luck with it!

Paul

have a look at

http://www.radford-yacht.com/dsn024.html

This boat cost several million to built and is a little smaller than what you are after. The plans won't be cheap however, as others have said, in the scheme of things saving $20,000 by not having a designer involed seems a bit silly.

Alex

[jet]

Originally Posted by genesis

basicallG'Day All I am searching for my ideal boat. I know people will say,oh thats to big, you dont need steel etc... but please suggest anyuseful information you can.
Basically I am looking for a serious long distance offshore cruising yacht, built of steel. with a LOA of 70ft +..........that is inexpensive to purchase wrt plans.
I was looking at Coliin Acher type double enders, but they are in the 40ft range at max and are not built of steel.
I dont mind if it is a double ender..nor for that mattter a flushed deck type traditional design...I just need it to be of steel, 70ft+ LOD...designed for offshore voyaging.
I was looking at the bruce roberts 76ft...but have read of structral failiures wrt the bottom...(I was offered it on the heap too wrt price). I have seen dudly dix 70ft hout Bay...looks good....chaep plans to wrt price as they are incomplete.... (any strucral faults by tis designer???)... But there must be other designs out there for me to consider.
please email me if you like
genesis01@dodo.com.au
regards
Peter

Peter
At the moment myself and four other people are just starting from scratch to build a steel hull boat of about 70 FT, We are now just getting the the project off to a design status, as we are shipwrights and i myself a design draughtsman it should be an intresting project(im not promising but if i can get the offsets done for about four weeks time i may be able to e-mail them to you afer we have had tests on them like i say im sure if it would be in time for your project but if it happens i will e-mail you) we are thinking of an small cruiser about 70 ft .any way good luck with your project.
regards
jet

[shu]

Peter,
Please heed what the others have said. A competent designer will tailor the plans to your needs. And if your needs are to save money, the design you get will be optimized to do just that. The amount you save in actual $ (not to mention frustration, wasted time, etc.) during construction will far exceed the design fee.
-shu