+65' alloy cat-from-hell !!

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Hi y'all .. about ready to start this pilgrimage from/to hell, but with a twist.
For as long as I can recall, I have always imagined a very slender, lite, quick, all electric cat that will double as a monster fun/dive/surf platform. With sails and/or solid wings.
No fossils, except CNG for the BBQ. An el fresco experience in sunny SE Asia. No more minus 20, trans ocean crossings - cold beer obligatory.
I am looking for good input, from hull, construction, electrics, sail/wing designers, etc, as we are serious enough to start putting this to paper, and want to start the building process ASAP.
Have a yard in Thailand who are alloy savvy. We have some input from Tesla, some bleeding edge sail and wing ideas, and seek good input on other disciplines. The rewards will be many. So join me if ya wish & thanks for listening.
BR>Jack

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels Eq

Hi y'all .. about ready to start this pilgrimage from/to hell, but with a twist.
For as long as I can recall, I have always imagined a very slender, lite, quick, all electric cat that will double as a monster fun/dive/surf platform. With sails and/or solid wings.
No fossils, except CNG for the BBQ. An el fresco experience in sunny SE Asia. No more minus 20, trans ocean crossings - cold beer obligatory.
I am looking for good input, from hull, construction, electrics, sail/wing designers, etc, as we are serious enough to start putting this to paper, and want to start the building process ASAP.
Have a yard in Thailand who are alloy savvy. We have some input from Tesla, some bleeding edge sail and wing ideas, and seek good input on other disciplines. The rewards will be many. So join me if ya wish & thanks for listening.
BR>Jack

Not exactly all electric, and but with unusual 'wing rig'...have a look at the DynaRig cat with Diesel Electric propulsion
http://www.runningtideyachts.com/dynarig/

But for this project, or the project you appear to speaking of, be prepared to spend lots of money.

Are you familiar with a couple of fellows building some 51 alum cats in Thailand? I can put you in touch with them and would highly suggest you talk with them about building in Thailand...and particularly in alum.

I might also suggest a more traditional design...maybe a ketch rigged 62 footer design we are working on for a 'stock design' for several clients??

Or if you are really interested in an 'enviro-vessel' how about a less technical kite assisted one hinted at here:
New Age Trawler/Motorsailer....Kite assisted PowerYacht
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20319

PS: I will be moving to Thailand first part of next year.

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Brian - dont know if ya received previous, but all help with this project will be appreciated. Builders, designers, engineers, etc, all welcome.
As mentioned previously, all-electric is the only way to go - at least as far as this project is concerned - simply stated, when ya run outa gas its all over. There will always be some voltaic, wind or wave movement to generate power. We will prob go the Lithium /yadda route as there is huge power avail, plus the normal weight & redundancy/replacement factors are critical. Efficiency will always be critical-mass - here more so.
As I said on one of my software forums, if my smartfone can operate for 3/5 days without charge, why do we tolerate a notebook with only 2/3 hours - using similar functions. Plus it can look ridiculous holding a NB up to ya ear to make a call - get ya arrested also
If we dont push the envelope, gasoline will get like Microsoft - $100 per gallon!!
If high VMG is what ya want then motorsail is good, and a perfect all-electric-yacht fit.

BR>Jack

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

But for this project, or the project you appear to speaking of, be prepared to spend lots of money.

Are you familiar with a couple of fellows building some 51 alum cats in Thailand? I can put you in touch with them and would highly suggest you talk with them about building in Thailand...and particularly in alum.

Are you interested in answering these two questions I asked previously??

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

As mentioned previously, all-electric is the only way to go - at least as far as this project is concerned

Are you familiar with Bill Joy's $50 million eco-friendly yacht??
http://www.siliconbeat.com/entries/2...dly_yacht.html

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech...espotlight.htm
You can find many more sites with references to this electric yacht.

If you look thru a few of my postings you will find a few dealing with electric energy storage including 'super flywheels' and 'nano batteries'. I don't consider myself any kind of electrical expert, in fact just the opposite, but I have been following some of the technology. I posted this subject thread recently;
Batteries and New Battery Technologies
Batteries and New Battery Technologies

I am particularly interested in this new nano, ultra-capacitor, possibility
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...7&postcount=72

But one needs time and money to follow these technologies up. Do you have both of these attributes?...or are you just fishing?

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Brian - have answered the Thai builder issue several times - even though I had at first considered the Q&A to be academic or rhetorical - who would turn down help/assistance? I am always 'fishing' for the highest and best use.
Have some communiques with Tesla - plus others .. will simply go with the biggest bang-per-buck in the end. AC or DC is more the issue here. Caveat - anything over 100v can get tricky mixed with water.
http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/tech_specs.php

BR>Jack
PS Who said anything about trashing good Whiskey with aqua doce?

[FAST FRED]

There will always be some voltaic, wind or wave movement to generate power.

You have solved your own quest with wind power .

Sails are 5000+ years of tech improvements and centuries of sucess at moving boats.

All the big buck electric stuff has a hard time moving a dink.

To "save the world" (and the folks anchored nearby) contemplate how you can get the systems to operate in port , reefer, hot pressure water , lights, from a source other than a NOISEMAKER.

FF

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Hey FF - I dont believe I just wrote that - if ya read the Tesla link, y'all see how far behind the curve ya really are. Again - we dont hang in crowded anchorages, or need pressure heated aqua in 34'C ambient, nor do I care about the polar bears - they can take good care of themselves, have done for some while now, nor are we waiting around for gawd. Bet ya never listened to Tchaikovsky's 5th, screaming down a wave at 22knts either. One does generate a lot of a/c power at those speeds, from every source. We guesstimate we can run about 36/40 hours with no input, in which case we are prob in Davey Jones Locker. We have about a median 3-4 hour recycle rate from ground zero, and under regular motorsail conditions can run everything including water/ice/reefer/tunes. The real smoke & mirrors part is the li-on & software efficiency. Clearly ya dont need to run the water/ice/reefer 100%
BR>Jack


All the big buck electric stuff has a hard time moving a dink.

[kengrome]

... all help with this project will be appreciated. Builders, designers, engineers, etc, all welcome.

Welcome for what? You want all this for free or are you paying?

I have a long list of things I'd like to have for free ...

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Always pay my way, especially in Makati, otherwise its off to jail.
Whatcha got?
BR>Jack

[kengrome]

I design and build, that's about it.

[FAST FRED]

'"Bet ya never listened to Tchaikovsky's 5th, screaming down a wave at 22knts either. One does generate a lot of a/c power at those speeds, from every source."

The hassle is most "cruising" folks spend 90% of the time in port.

If you have to scream at 22K to charge the battset every few days (even if only for 3 hours) its a load more work than any cruiser I ever met would do.

Using a spinning prop as gen set is fine , but the tranny needs a dedicated thrust bearing for the extended reverse pulls , and the prop acts as a speed brake of about 50% larger diameter.

If you dont mind the speed loss , thats fine.

FF

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Hi - does anyone have any recent a/c & d/c power and efficiency comparisons or links to same? All the latest wisdom points to 3 phase a/c
BR>Jack

[brian eiland]

I might suggest you look thru these two subject threads,

.....and definitely go to the ProBoat site and seek out their series of articles on the subject...very good reference


Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9310

Solomon Technologies - "Electric Wheel" electric motor propulsion systems
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=676

Professional Boatbuider Magazine
http://www.proboat.com/digital_issues.html

[Jack Daniels Eq]

Brian - tnx for links - but most of that stuff is from way back - I dont really want to get into pissing contests with old folks who are still stuck in the cylinder head gasket & stone boat era. A lot of data on many forums is heresy and old gossip - not where I want to be.
As soon as something new or controversial arrives on a forum, there is often no response, or it simply gets trashed. A reasonably intelligent Q&A session is a learning curve for all. is proposed, being blown out of the water negates that.
When I said there are big perks/advantages for guys with smart ideas I meant it.
The IDEC boat is where I wanna be - not some old hard chine plank job looking for a reef.
To date I have done a lot of electrical/electronics research, and have sailed almost everything on this planet - plus some big offshore cigarette stuff. Ya can say that I know what I dont want - BR>Jack
BTW - Saw a bunch of kites about 300 ft off the ground - interesting clean-air idea that. 3 or 4 of them might work very well on a reach.

[FAST FRED]

A lot of data on many forums is heresy and old gossip - not where I want to be.

Yes, that Pro boat builder stuff is almost 4 months old!

FF