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  #1  
Old 12-01-2011, 12:52 AM
Tony Eaton Tony Eaton is offline
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5 part nesting pirogue, video of trial run

Here is a prototype of an idea that I've had for quite awhile but finally built.

Video with 5 parts complete, testing at 19.5' followed by the initial 14.5' 4 part test.
(Warning, the youtube video contains background music so you might want to mute if you are in a quiet place...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBeWy..._order&list=UL

While the boat isn't pretty and the design certainly has a few flaws, I'm still happy with the initial results. This boat is strictly meant for calm, protected waters, close to shore only. The primary goal is to paddle up slow moving creeks and rivers to observe nature while not having to carry a long boat on top of a car on interstate highways. In the past we always used multiple boats, but being in the same boat should have some real advantages.

This is essentially a simple flat bottom pirogue cut into 4 pieces with a 5th piece added.

Well, I'm curious about what others might think and welcome any comments positive or negative. Thanks for taking a look.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 02:21 AM
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waikikin waikikin is offline
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Hi, what hold the parts together?
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2011, 08:22 AM
nordvindcrew nordvindcrew is offline
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right on

I don't know if this is a first effort, but you seem to have built something that will meet your needs. A little work upgrading the design for a bit prettier boat with maybe a bit of rocker in the ends and you've got a winner. Congrats
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:51 PM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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If I understand correctly, you took your 4-piece nesting pirogue and added a center section?

Very nice. I'm not wild about all the partitions, but I suppose you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:36 PM
Squidly-Diddly Squidly-Diddly is offline
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I'm think of an 7' 11" dingy for storing upright indoors.

It would be able to do double duty as shelves when standing on its stern.

Just rest some specially cut shelves on the frames, as long as the frames are built to be level when boat is upended.

So how about similar concept with two 7' 11" open deck sections like you show? Could be either two pyramids with pointy ends up, or connected one up, one down, OR both "big end up" and connected just at the top.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:09 AM
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waikikin waikikin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly-Diddly View Post
It would be able to do double duty as shelves when standing on its stern.

Just rest some specially cut shelves on the frames, as long as the frames are built to be level when boat is upended.

So how about similar concept with two 7' 11" open deck sections like you show? Could be either two pyramids with pointy ends up, or connected one up, one down, OR both "big end up" and connected just at the top.
Ha Ha, thats terrific, I can hear myself saying to other half "I'm gunna build some nice shelves, maybe with a "nautical aesthetic", they'll go nicely just here, pointing to where shelves were asked for, & telling her that it'll be a fantastic storage solution that she's come up with.(complete with rowlock blocks etc)"
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:59 AM
Squidly-Diddly Squidly-Diddly is offline
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I'm thinking three 7' sections would be ideal.

A nice long kayak is good, but I hear the rowing positions really want to be FAR apart so you(guy in back) isn't clanging the paddle of the paddler in the front(hers).

It is VERY irritating to be subject to nasty shock through the elbow joints at random intervals, so I hear. They call double kayaks "divorce boats".

Plus, 7' is a lot easier to carry through door and stairways, and a 7' middle section would allow for sliding seat rower or balanced single paddler.

You could use either a front and middle(with small motor on transome), or just middle(for stationary pond fishing), or just front and back sections as needed(might only work well if section lengths weren't all equal...maybe have rear section shorter so your butt is in middle or little astern).

Maybe 7' front, 7' middle, 5' rear.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2011, 01:16 AM
Tony Eaton Tony Eaton is offline
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Thanks for everyone taking a look at my latest foray into "boat design". Well, I didn't design a boat, but I was crazy enough to cut one up!

"what hold the parts together" = some eyebolts and wing nuts, with 1"by2" or 1"by 4" white boards glued vertically to help transfer force a bit better.

Hi Troy, yes its a 4 piece nesting pirogue with a middle section.

Yep, it could double as shelfs, or stacking tables.
I need to give that some thought, at least for the garage.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2011, 02:33 PM
messabout messabout is offline
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I like it. The idea has sensibilities that address the storage problem of a long boat. It might need a little bit of fine tuning but on the other hand; if it ain't broke why fix it?.

I have threatened to build a two piece Kayak that will fit into the back of my Honda Element. I've been hung up on the joining method. I have a very well equipped machine shop where I can make almost any kind of joiner hardware. Maybe I have made too much of a deal out of that and my hardware drawings are more elaborate than necessary. I have cone and cup visions that would assure near perfect alignment of the hull parts. I am guilty of over doing, or over thinking, stuff perhaps.


You have broken the boat into smaller pieces and at least the end pieces will not exert too much force on the joint. In the case of a four piece boat the middle joint will need to be pretty stout.

The vid shows that the aft stem is a tad above the WL when you are paddling solo. The fact that you can stand in the boat is surprising. You could pole that thing like the swamp men down in the bayou country.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2011, 04:39 PM
portacruise portacruise is offline
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Very clever modification which seems much easier than building from scratch.

"The primary goal is to paddle up slow moving creeks and rivers to observe nature while not having to carry a long boat on top of a car on interstate highways. In the past we always used multiple boats, but being in the same boat should have some real advantages."

Why not use inflatable kayaks which would meet your primary goal?

Porta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Eaton View Post
Here is a prototype of an idea that I've had for quite awhile but finally built.

Video with 5 parts complete, testing at 19.5' followed by the initial 14.5' 4 part test.
(Warning, the youtube video contains background music so you might want to mute if you are in a quiet place...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBeWy..._order&list=UL

While the boat isn't pretty and the design certainly has a few flaws, I'm still happy with the initial results. This boat is strictly meant for calm, protected waters, close to shore only. The primary goal is to paddle up slow moving creeks and rivers to observe nature while not having to carry a long boat on top of a car on interstate highways. In the past we always used multiple boats, but being in the same boat should have some real advantages.

This is essentially a simple flat bottom pirogue cut into 4 pieces with a 5th piece added.

Well, I'm curious about what others might think and welcome any comments positive or negative. Thanks for taking a look.
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Tony Eaton Tony Eaton is offline
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Squidly, ah, you're right on spacing paddlers/rowers. We had a little "clashing" on that test but it could get aggravating going long distances.

Messaboat, I was tempted on doing something more complex for joining although I was thinking about wood, glass/epoxy, or off of the shelf hardware. After I started cutting I found a nice design on youtube of a 3 part kayak that used wooden dove tail joints. However, years ago I had used this same simple board and washer reinforced join on another nesting boat that had a great deal more displacement and it provided to be sufficient. I am a bit generous with layers of glass around the bulkheads and connecting points on the center pieces. I've yet to put my current project to any real stress but from what I've observed the points around the bulks are less flexible than along the rest of the hull while under way. If a lot of flex did exist at the connecting points, I think that mechanical action could be bad, as the wood and glass around the bolts would gradually weaken and eventually fail. Your connecting idea sounds better and would allow for a more precise join and also a lighter weight build.

Portacruise, that's a good question regarding inflatable kayaks. I was tempted to buy two tandem inflatable kayaks, one for me and the dog and one for wife and daughter. In most ways it would have been superior, i.e. a closed trunk for transport and a lot more sea worthy. I'd be interested to test drive one of those hobie kayak inflatables with dual "jet drives" as I bet they move quickly. One good thing with this project is the capacity. We are all on the same boat. We see and experience everything at roughly the same time while covering a lot of ground.

Before, when paddling with the family, I'd be stuck in the 9' inflatable kayak and I was always chasing my wife and daughter and dog all riding in a 14' pirogue. It was a lesson in hydrodynamics for sure to see me struggling to keep up while my wife calmly paddled in what wasn't a fast boat to begin with. My initial idea for this project, or at least one of them, was to just build a second light weight pirogue. But then how to carry two pirogues on one car? So I was going to build two pirogues, with one of them 1 foot longer an an inch or two wider, and then simply stack them on the car. Stacking them is probably easier said than done though. I then thought about taking a "pretty" boat like a long stitch and glue kayak and cutting it up for transport but this was overkill for my needs hence this project.

The difference in performance on this nesting pirogue is interesting with and without the middle 5' section. Although the middle section is an inch wider and the lines are not as clean (this section was built after the boat was cut apart) the boat tracks dramatically better with the extra 5 feet and it is a good deal faster too. It turns just as easy, perhaps even more easily, than the 14 footer, I guess because there is less draft. There is more glide too at 19.5'. Paddling the 14'5 configuration w/o the middle section I realized right away that a skeg would be nice due to weathercocking and leecocking in ~10mph winds. Part of the problem was that the bulkhead prevented me from adjusting my weight like I would do in my other pirogue. None of that was a factor in the longer configuration. I suppose a lesson for those building a pirogue might be to go with a longer design for better performance. I guess there is a reason that much of the pre-industrial boating was and still is done in long flat bottomed "canoes".
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:55 AM
portacruise portacruise is offline
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Hi Tony:
Do you have to portage or carry your long pirogue along narrow trails? That's what I have to do on my scenic creeks, and it isn't easy, even with much shorter/lighter inflatables loaded with fishing gear.

Porta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Eaton View Post
Squidly, ah, you're right on spacing paddlers/rowers. We had a little "clashing" on that test but it could get aggravating going long distances.

Messaboat, I was tempted on doing something more complex for joining although I was thinking about wood, glass/epoxy, or off of the shelf hardware. After I started cutting I found a nice design on youtube of a 3 part kayak that used wooden dove tail joints. However, years ago I had used this same simple board and washer reinforced join on another nesting boat that had a great deal more displacement and it provided to be sufficient. I am a bit generous with layers of glass around the bulkheads and connecting points on the center pieces. I've yet to put my current project to any real stress but from what I've observed the points around the bulks are less flexible than along the rest of the hull while under way. If a lot of flex did exist at the connecting points, I think that mechanical action could be bad, as the wood and glass around the bolts would gradually weaken and eventually fail. Your connecting idea sounds better and would allow for a more precise join and also a lighter weight build.

Portacruise, that's a good question regarding inflatable kayaks. I was tempted to buy two tandem inflatable kayaks, one for me and the dog and one for wife and daughter. In most ways it would have been superior, i.e. a closed trunk for transport and a lot more sea worthy. I'd be interested to test drive one of those hobie kayak inflatables with dual "jet drives" as I bet they move quickly. One good thing with this project is the capacity. We are all on the same boat. We see and experience everything at roughly the same time while covering a lot of ground.

Before, when paddling with the family, I'd be stuck in the 9' inflatable kayak and I was always chasing my wife and daughter and dog all riding in a 14' pirogue. It was a lesson in hydrodynamics for sure to see me struggling to keep up while my wife calmly paddled in what wasn't a fast boat to begin with. My initial idea for this project, or at least one of them, was to just build a second light weight pirogue. But then how to carry two pirogues on one car? So I was going to build two pirogues, with one of them 1 foot longer an an inch or two wider, and then simply stack them on the car. Stacking them is probably easier said than done though. I then thought about taking a "pretty" boat like a long stitch and glue kayak and cutting it up for transport but this was overkill for my needs hence this project.

The difference in performance on this nesting pirogue is interesting with and without the middle 5' section. Although the middle section is an inch wider and the lines are not as clean (this section was built after the boat was cut apart) the boat tracks dramatically better with the extra 5 feet and it is a good deal faster too. It turns just as easy, perhaps even more easily, than the 14 footer, I guess because there is less draft. There is more glide too at 19.5'. Paddling the 14'5 configuration w/o the middle section I realized right away that a skeg would be nice due to weathercocking and leecocking in ~10mph winds. Part of the problem was that the bulkhead prevented me from adjusting my weight like I would do in my other pirogue. None of that was a factor in the longer configuration. I suppose a lesson for those building a pirogue might be to go with a longer design for better performance. I guess there is a reason that much of the pre-industrial boating was and still is done in long flat bottomed "canoes".
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2011, 02:47 PM
Tony Eaton Tony Eaton is offline
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Hi porta,

Since we are generally running up creeks that are tributaries to the local lakes these are 2 way trips and we generally go as far as we can before the log jams and fallen tries become impossible. Maybe a boat that can be taken apart would facilitate at least a short portage (just walk one or two pieces at a time). Where I do "portage" a lot is getting to a spot. I have some spots that are 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile to put in from parking. In this case I stumble along with whichever cart I have works best for the situation. Keeping the pieces nested would typically be easier than a long boat, but it would be even easier with an inflatable. A draw back with the inflatable here in Texas are the number of honey locust and mesquite trees and other similar thorny plants. I've managed to put a few holes in inflatables that way. Well, good thing there is duct tape. ;-)
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:49 PM
Squidly-Diddly Squidly-Diddly is offline
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with such short pieces, how about back-packing the nested group?

At even 60lbs the weight shouldn't be a problem, and it is a lot easier if correctly positioned on your back as opposed to cradled in arms out in front.

I believe the WW2 US Army field pack weighed in at 90lbs, all in.

If weight goes over 60lbs, and you are on rough terrain, still back pack it but just make two trips instead of 4 or 5.

Lots of backpacks have those quick detach black plastic connectors(and they are cheap to buy). Have the backpack shoulder straps detach, then reattach in the boat to make a sling seat.

I've seen "cargo" back packs that have a big flat platform on the bottom for hauling awkward objects but I can't find any on online 'fashion' BP stores.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:15 PM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Eaton View Post
Hi porta,

Since we are generally running up creeks that are tributaries to the local lakes these are 2 way trips and we generally go as far as we can before the log jams and fallen tries become impossible. Maybe a boat that can be taken apart would facilitate at least a short portage (just walk one or two pieces at a time). Where I do "portage" a lot is getting to a spot. I have some spots that are 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile to put in from parking. In this case I stumble along with whichever cart I have works best for the situation. Keeping the pieces nested would typically be easier than a long boat, but it would be even easier with an inflatable. A draw back with the inflatable here in Texas are the number of honey locust and mesquite trees and other similar thorny plants. I've managed to put a few holes in inflatables that way. Well, good thing there is duct tape. ;-)
How is duct tape like The Force?

--It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the universe together.

My general rule of thumb is, "if it moves and it isn't supposed to, duct tape it. If it doesn't move and it's supposed to, WD-40 it."
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