40 Footer Sailing Boat Design

[hbattistini]

My name is Horácio Battistini. I intend to build a steel or aluminum sailing boat around 40 feet long.

Some key requirements are:

- Multi chine hull for easy amateur construction;
- Pilot house;
- Swing keel or centerboard;
- Draft around 1,0m / 2,2m;
- Cutter rig (or Slooper - two genoas);
- 2 double berth cabins (1 aft, 1 forward);
- 1 head;
- Galley, navigation desk, salon;
- Plenty of space for water, fuel and storage;
- Swimming platform;
- Very robust and seaworthy;
- Intended use: extended cruising and liveaboard.

I´ve extensively searched Internet for designs that meet these requirements, but surprisingly found less than five. So far I ended up with only two that realy interested me:

1.Chatam 40 by Gilbert Caroff. Internet site: http://caroffduflos.free.fr
2.Norman 40 by Van de Stadt. Iternet site: http://www.stadtdesign.com

Does anybody know about other designs that meet my requirements?

Thanks.

Best regards,

Horácio Battistini

[PAR]

The design you are asking for is very difficult to do in that length and keep the draft below 2 meters. Jay Benford has a design a bit larger at 45' LOA, 37'6" LWL, 12' 3" beam, 5' draft, 24,000 displacement. It has an aft cabin with double and a foreword with same. Pilot house and all the features of an ocean going vessel. It is cutter rigged, but doesn't have a swim platform, though I'd think he could work up something. Try the Benford Design Group.

[CDBarry]

Just get a custom design. It isn't that expensive compared to the rest of the cost of the boat. A complete design including CNC kit should be about the same as the cost of the steel.

[Jeff H]

I would have to agree with PAR that it is very hard to find a steel 40 footer that has all of the accommodations that you are looking for, reasonable carrying capacities, still sails well and is seaworthy as well.

You might want to look at the cutter version of Dudley Dix's Hout Bay 40 which would give you a lot of what you are looking for. http://www.dixdesign.com/

In the big picture, you might be better off building a longer boat of the same displacement, or else building you boat out of a lighter weight material. (Costs should be pretty similar and build time may be less) Steel tends to be a pretty inefficient material on a strength to weight ratio expecially when you are talking about boats this small. That means that a boat this size has to have a lot of displacement (in and of itself weight does nothing good for a boat) carried quite high but will have to compromise on either carrying capacity, or ballasting or both. Neither compromise makes for a good sailing distance cruiser. This becomes especially important since you are requesting shallow draft which would normally mean a much higher ballast ratio than a deeper boat.

Jeff

[MGM]

Hi, I am looking for a voyager style sailboat, seaworthy, about 12 m, since about 1 year, OK for amateur boatbuilding.

My conclusion:

Caroff / Chatam 40
Roberts / R 370 verion E (LOA is 40 feet=12m)

It appear that the Caroff / CHATAM 40 is EXACTLY what YOU AND ME NEED. Also just to tell you, many of my friends build a Chatam, here in Quebec, Canada. All very satisfy, more seaworthy, since it is a centerboard, better dynamic stability....more secure in HEAVY WEATHER !.....and with its draft of only 95 cm (less than 3 feet)....ideal for Bahamas, Midi Channel,....can beach anywhere ! This boat is not just a Cruiser...it is a real VOYAGER sailboat.


In your text you mention caroff / Chatam 40 and Van de Stadt / Norman 40.

BUT WHAT are your 3 others findings ?

P.S. Norman 40 must be a good design. I owe a Van de Stadt desin; DEHLER Sprinta Sport (23 feet=7m)and VERY satisfy, a performer......but not a voyager style sailboat....only a weekender racer-cruiser.

Thanks for collaboration.

MGM

[SailDesign]

Go look at Yves Tanton's site (www.tantonyachts.com) or better yet contact him directly at
info@tantonyachts.com

He posts to the gallery here (username "Tanton", believe it or not) and there are some designs of his in that length range up already.

Steve

[Ilan Voyager]

Steel is not a good material for a 40 footer. Steel is used in big boats and ships because it's the cheapest material available and its technology is well mastered.
But for small yachts it's truly too heavy and its maintenance can become a nightmare. A steel boat has always rust stains...very ugly, or you're painting every morning while drinking your coffee. In tropical waters steel corrosion at the water line may become a big problem as I've seen on steel patrol boats and tugs used in French Guyana.

If you want to stay in metal aluminium is a better choice. Marine grade alu doesn't rust, believe me or not is far easier to work than steel, and electrolitic corrosion is well understood now (the fairy tales of "desintegrated" boats come from the very beginning of alu use) and it's not an issue nowadays.

In alu you have an interesting method of building with thick plates called STRONGALL. I know there is an internet site. You'll find it easily.

With all you want to put inside the hull it's better to go to the 45-50 feet, a 40 feet will be a bit crowded. Boats cost by weight, not by length; a short heavy boat requires taller masts, more sail, more hardware than a longer lighter one. The bare hull is only 25 % of the price of a boat.

About architects:

Mr Caroff is a well known and respected architect in France specially for travel and work boats. He works pratically customs as he fits the boats to the owner's needs. The "deriveur integral" (sailboat with inside ballast, no keel, and dagger or centerboard) and medium deplacement may look surprising for north american sailors used to very heavy keelers, but it's a proven and sure formula existing since 30 years. For a travel boat, it's a pleasure to moore almost on the beach, or pass over a reef if needed... The boat motions are very gentle. And it's very sure in bad weather.

Mr Tanton is also a well known and respected architect. I think that the cat Ketch is very interesting for short handed boats: it leads to a simple boat with no big winches, heavy rails, rollers, furlers and all this material that make the joy of the providers of hardware and the sorrow of the sailors (I call all that hardware: wallet suckers).

Long time ago, I've worked for a french architect (deceased now) who designed for a client a simple catamaran with a cutter rig composed of 2 rotating wingmasts, 2 fully battened mainsails with wishbone and lazyjacks, a flying self tacking solent and a small asymetric spy. Only a big all purpose central 3 speed winch was used!

The cat was very easy to sail and equilibrate, very sure because of the low center of sail, tacking like a daysailer and able of very good average speeds with no efforts. Totally (or almost) battered mainsails are very well mannered sails: easily controlled, no flapping, and in a wind burst you have only to let run the sheet. It's perfect for a short or single handed boat.

There are many architects. The only thing I counsel about the plans, do not make stupid savings with cheap old or/and incomplete plans. The architect's fees are generally well earned and a good architect may save you a lot of money by its expertise.

[hbattistini]

I really agree with you that Chatam 40 is the best choice considering our requirements. In reality I´ve already purchased Chatam 40 plans. They arrived 3 weeks ago and, as I´m a Portuguese (and English as a second language) speaker, I have a translator taking care of them so that I can start the construction in September.

The three other options I didn´t mention in my previous message were:

1. Multichine SK 41 by a Brazilian designer named Roberto Mesquita Barros: http://www.yachtdesign.com.br/02_ing...ult41sk-2.html (http://www.yachtdesign.com.br/02_ing...dex_ingles.htm - office home page)
Discarded because I didn´t like the swing keel system.

2. Hermine 40 by François Lucas. I believe he doesn’t have an web page for this design. His e-mail address: fr.lucas@free.fr
Too expensive for my budget. Plans 5000 Euros, construction only in aluminum. If you want I can send you additional information in private.

3. PARADOXE 120 by Erik Lerouge: http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_12.htm
Construction only in aluminum which I gave up at the end due to costs beyond my budget.

If you want I can send you in private additional information and material resulting from my research in Internet for around 1 year. Just let me know if it is of your interest.

On the other hand, if you could provide me with any additional information about the Chatams of your friends (photos, construction log, home pages or contacts) I would thank you very much.

Good luck in your project.

Best regards,

Horácio

You can't get an extremely sea-worthy 40' boat that is only 3' 2" deep. You can make such a boat, but it will be only moderately sea-worthy. I have surfed down 25' waves in a 35' boat. I wouldn't want to try it in a 35' boat only 3' deep.

[jbouwer]

My question has nothing with the thread on the 40' design, rather on the comment from "Ilan Voyager".

Could you kindly elaborate on this French Cat that uses these rotating masts.

Thank you,

Johan Bouwer

[Ilan Voyager]

Very old Thread...5 years ago.

You have been lucky. What do you want to know about this cat made 20 years ago?