Why do I never have enough money?

[medusaboat]

Hi all,
I am intending to build a boat.......
She is a classically styled, long keel 30 footer, to be built in solid CSM / Woven Roving GRP in a Polyester matrix. She will be constructed outdoors in the UK over a former made from chip(particle)board formers strip planked with 12mm x 50mm pine covered with a polythene barrier to prevent bonding. She will have 3000g / M sq. above the waterline and 3300g below with massive increases along the keel. When completed she will be inverted and the solid GRP deck will be added prior to the former being removed. Ballast will be by encapsulated Barytes aggregate (heavy) concrete poured after extensive floors and bulkheads have been installed. I have pared this project to the bone and believe that I can produce the hull and deck, faired and finished for £3500. Any comments?
Cheers
Mark

[SheetWise]

Money is time. You can scrounge or buy -- do it yourself or hire it out -- figure out a cheaper method or simply cheapen the final product. You can cut and mill your own lumber, or pay professionals. I assume you're not including the time you've invested to get the plan to this stage -- am I correct? Money is time -- time is money. In the end, my guess is that your real cost will approximate the market value.

If you're skilled -- your cost may be less than value. If you're learning, it could be several magnitudes of value. If you don't value your time, and you've got unlimited time available -- you could probably build it for free.

[hansp77]

and once you do get the boat,
like I have just realised,
It is not so much that I never have enough money,
because really, my money isn't mine anymore.
My boat owns my money, and if she didn't send me out daily to buy thing for her, then I am sure she would keep my wallet too.

[longliner45]

my wife was like that ,,then she found my boat ,,,,,I think shes jeliose

[Raggi_Thor]

3kg of glass + 3 to 6kg of polyester is 6 to 9kg/m2. I'd say 10kg/m2.
12mm pine is probably 5kg/m2 + 450g of glass + 550g of epoxy on both sides makes it 7kg/m2. The pine is "free" (?), epoxy costs 10 Euro/kg while polyester is 2 or 3 Euro?
Biaxial glass is maybe 8 Euro/kg while CSM is 2 Euro(?).

Anyway, 2kg of glass/epoxy at 10Euro/kg is 20 Euro/m2, 10kg of cheaper glass + polyester at 2Euro/kg is also 20 Euro/m2.

20 Euro = 14 GBP?
Should we double that for fillers (fairing) and gelcoat or paint?

10 meter boat, is that 80 Square meters if skin?
80m2 x 30GBP/m2 = 2400GBP + vat.

Are my numbers far out?
I think it seems possible.

[medusaboat]

Hey all,
Thanks for your replies. I do agree that time = money. However, I would rather spend 10 hours doing what I enjoy (boat building) than 1 hour doing what I do not enjoy (going to work!!!)
Ragnar, glad you remotely agree with my figures. Its good to know that what I plan is possible.
What does everyone think of the poured concrete ballast idea?? Is it acceptable?
Thanks for your help.
By the way if anyone is in the Midlands area of the UK and would like to discuss building or get involved please contact me........

[medusaboat]

Hey sheetwise,
Just read all of your post..........
Build it for free???? Go on - I'd love to hear this.......
I guess timber prices could be reduced massively by using reclaimed and ripping it myself, but where do you get glass and Poly for free???
By the way guys - my missus hates boats (spent a week with Mal de mar in the Med!) Is this build gonna be grounds for divorce???

[Raggi_Thor]

I try not to talk too much about boats at home.
We also have two boats at hour summer house, one 20 feet slow and steady motor boat for family excursions and one 16 feet sailing dinghy for me and hopefully soon the kids (4 and 2 years).

[medusaboat]

Ha Ha,

I have two boys, 4 and 10 months. I intend to get them intoxicated with the pleasures of sailing then my good lady wife will have no choice but to join in!
Oh the tangled webs we weave!!

[medusaboat]

Thats one at 4 years and one at 10 months by the way!

[hansp77]

Now I am not married,
but my girlfriend loves boats,
and was dead keen to get one with me.
Nontheless, since I bought one it has rather neatly at times carved (as if with its beautifull bow) a great wedge between us, and caused many a stressed out screaming fight (but then there are the good bits too).
Grounds for divorce?
Just maybe.
Your two boys might just be your best bet.

But, you cannot just trust to nature that they will be interested-
what with kids today, and computer games and all that, they might never want to get off the couch let alone join dad to get wet, windblown and seasick..

Might I suggest you pull out the crayons and start teaching the boys how to draw boats- everywhere, all different kinds. The hell with maths and the rest of that jazz- teach them about "keelboats, mainsails, booms and asymetrical spinakers- yes thats right AY-SIM-ET-RIKAL-SPIN-AH-KER"
Also, boat games- make believe, exploring the uncharted back yard with treasure maps (that they find mysteriously hidden under their pillows, and wrapped around their school sandwiches) where they can go out and dig up little packages that you have previously burried (and yes- of course, inside there are what? Boats of course).
Boat toys in the bath,
boat books,
boat movies-
I think you get the point.

For your wife you might have to try something more subtle...
subliminal tapes are a good option.
If you can't offord these (because you are saving for the boat) then just start wispering in her ear when she enters the dream state (you can tell, its when her eyeballs start moving and she is not awake)
"You love boats, you love boating, you would love your dear husband to spend all his time and all your money on building a great great big boat...."


Best of luck.

[SheetWise]

Hey sheetwise,
Just read all of your post..........
Build it for free???? Go on - I'd love to hear this.......
I guess timber prices could be reduced massively by using reclaimed and ripping it myself, but where do you get glass and Poly for free???

As I said ... it depends how much time you have. Somebody has to make it. There's always a tradeoff between what you do yourself and what you hire out -- whether it's labor or materials. The total cost to you will be determined by where you draw that line and what you consider your time to be worth.

Obviously you consider the manufacture of glass and poly to be more economical to hire out.

[medusaboat]

You guys!
Hansp77 - you make me laugh - I was just trusting to nature - maybe I should be more proactive here, after all, I wasted my youth on cars and motorbikes!!
Sheetwise - I know what you are getting at. Being all philosophical I have often wondered what would happen if the world were bought down by nuclear war. Would I still be able to manufacture my beloved glassfibre? The answer is a resounding NO - best turn to wood I guess!!
Anyway - enough of this tomfoolery - what do you think about my encapsulated keel with heavy concrete??
Cheers

[hansp77]

medusaboat,
tomfoolery?
why must you mock me?
try to help a guy out, and what do you get?

Nah but seriously, though I own a long-keeled classicly styled 30 ft (marine ply) boat (Van De Stadt Seahorse) I wouldn't know how to offer you advice on your encapsulated keel with heavy concrete. I am pretty new to all this and know nothing about what you ask.

If you do not get the anwers that you are seeking soon, then maybe consider starting a new thread with a heading that actually describes more closely what you are after. eg.

"heavy concrete, encapulated long-keel?"

or something along those lines.
certainly someone, aside from the tomfools, someone who knows, will offer you some good advice on this. Maybe just they have not read it yet.

Good luck. (especially with the family)
Hans.

[medusaboat]

Hello again,
I guess another thread would be logical.......
Looked up your original thread by the way - beautiful boat - very similar to that which I intend to build, didn't read until the end of the thread though - is she sailing yet???
Cheers