Tall ship vs Freighter: which is economically superior?

[wardd]

the point is is fuel for delivery a major factor in say cost of goods delivered and sold

[gonzo]

Penalties are also part of the cost of goods. If the risk of incurring them rises, the average freight has to increase to take it into account

Uhh Gonzo,

you should flag this for moderator!
Someone has hijacked your user panel and added a ugly picture to your avatar!

Originally Posted by gonzo

Penalties are also part of the cost of goods. If the risk of incurring them rises, the average freight has to increase to take it into account

Do´nt forget insurance rates. Usually any severe penalty for delay is handled by insurance. But the shipping lines do´nt like increasing insurance rates too much.
resume: sail on schedule, or you´re out of business.

[TollyWally]

In the end, as has been pointed out, time is money. So is everything else, sails don't come cheap, don't last forever, and have an expense associated with handling them whether it be spent on man or machine. I believe it was Gonzo that pointed out there is still a place for sail driven carge with cultures and economies where sufficient time can subsidize and overcome the costs incurred in most other trade routes. It's a romantic notion that will undoubtedly be looked at whenever the price of fuel spikes up, I'd bet against it, LOL I don't always win my bets though. If I did I'd give up my day job!

"on certain routes, lets say Spain - Cuba" - A hotbed of trade, One could conceive of tourists over, tobacco and sugar back (I'm thinking that the tourists might want to fly back)


Not THAT trip again!

Get it?

[PaiMei]

I am sure that most of you are in the industry so know a lot better than me. But let me raise a few points (after having found some more info on the web):

1. Even if "Mr. Döhle an the Hamburg gang" would like to use a Tall ship they couldn´t because it will take another 2-4 years for development and building. And someone has to spend the millions to build a prototype. Probably not really what the "Hamburg gang" is currently willing to do.

2. Why does Enercon, a leading wind energy company, spent millions on building the "E-Ship", fitted with Flettner rotors and auxiliary engine only?

3. Sailing to schedule is key. Yes, but why shouldn´t a sailboat sail according to schedule (or faster). Our famous airline Lufthansa a few years ago simply increased the official "flight time" by some 20% within Germany (longest flight is 1 hour...) and have since then significantly improved their "on time performance". The question is, what average speed you assume on the way between A and B. The old PREUSSEN (130 meters) had a calculated average speed of 10.6 an certain routes. And they ones made it to Chile with 15.6

4. With modern rigg technology and satellite based routing the courses to sail can be a lot straighter.

5. Why do you need an engine bigger than the normal main engine for sail handling? We are probably talking about a simple schooner rig type of boat not square rigged and not Dynarigg. Handled with some hydraulics. As simple as possible.

I still fight for my 20 Euros....


Thanks

Convince some green entity to pay a premium in price and time.
Try talking to Gordon Brown or Barack Obama and they'll likely plot sail power as the course for the future. Realistically, as someone pointed out above, the short response is; "time is money". In a real world, that is, time is money.

Well, that is what you should do, fight for your 20€.
let me reply in your post:

Originally Posted by PaiMei

1. Even if "Mr. Döhle an the Hamburg gang" would like to use a Tall ship they couldn´t because it will take another 2-4 years for development and building. And someone has to spend the millions to build a prototype. Probably not really what the "Hamburg gang" is currently willing to do.

They are well ahead of the crowd when it comes to efficiency in worldwide shipping, so they would adopt sensible systems before others do. Not by accident Hamburg (again) is the #1 community in shipping worldwide.
Beluga and others btw are testing the Skysails system since few years now. (not Hamburg, but next door)

2. Why does Enercon, a leading wind energy company, spent millions on building the "E-Ship", fitted with Flettner rotors and auxiliary engine only?

To make a business when feasible, sure. But you did not ask for alternative propulsion in general, you asked for "tall ships", right?

3. Sailing to schedule is key. The question is, what average speed you assume on the way between A and B.

The fastest sensible, nothing else. Shipping companies do´nt install 100.000hp to have the crew enjoy speed, they do it to get the shortest "turnaround time" possible.

4. With modern rigg technology and satellite based routing the courses to sail can be a lot straighter.

Unfortunately not. The global wind and current systems did not change during the past 100 years. A commercial sailing ship is bound to these systems, no matter how efficient the rig.

5. Why do you need an engine bigger than the normal main engine for sail handling? We are probably talking about a simple schooner rig type of boat not square rigged and not Dynarigg. Handled with some hydraulics. As simple as possible.

I would not say bigger than a common one, but about the same size.
You have additional resistance when you are not sailing, that reduces speed, and / or increases power demand.
The same is valid for crew. With each and every additional system aboard, you need more crew to handle and service that. Nothing on a seagoing vessel is just pushing a button, and if, there has to be one maintaining the button.

I still fight for my 20 Euros....
Thanks

Do´nt forget, we have commercial sailing ships operating worldwide! Their freight is meat. And they have to operate on a pretty tight schedule, because when the cattle skin is tanned, they must be near the airport to fly them back home.
When you look in their engine rooms you hardly notice any difference compared to a commercial freighter of similar size (apart from the hughe gennies).
These cruisers operate on a low speed level to make absolutely sure the schedule can be held. Not a good idea when shipping goods. Turnaround is the most important factor in todays shipping activities.

Regards
Richard