Swage tools.

[Mychael]

Not sure if I'm posting in the right section for this question but here goes.
I was thinking of buying a swageing tool, the kind that looks like a big pair of bolt cutters.

What do people think of the value of getting one? How useful are they and what are their limitations?
I know you could not use them for rigging but I wanted to re-do all the safety wire on my boat, put in new gates etc.

Would it be okay for that sort of job? Would the likely savings over paying a rigger to make it all up for me cover the purchase cost? They seem to sell for around the $300+ mark over here.

If I were to buy one what should I look for when choosing one?

Mychael

[PAR]

There are three types of swaging tools available; machined, crimped and crushed.

The tool that you can get cheaply ($50) is two pieces of metal, with holes for the sleeves and two bolts to crush the sleeve to size. These are fine for life lines, but I wouldn't trust one for rigging, though many do.

The next tool is the crimper (bolt cutters looking thing). These run $200 to $300 and can be trusted for rigged, because the jaws can be adjusted, though on a highly strung rig, you're better off with machine made swage.

The machine made swage (there's a couple of different types) are best and will maintain the most strength of the wire. Of course you have to have someone with a swaging machine (and a person that knows how to properly run it) perform the swaging operations on your wires.

Not swaging, but now acceptable are the mechanical ends available. These are very good, but the most costly option. They can be installed by the boat owner with hand tools.

[Landlubber]

It depends on what it is you wish to swage.

Trailer boats and off the beach boats can be hand swaged no worries, standing rigging for a yacht is usually roll swaged or die swaged in an hydraulic press.

[Mychael]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

It depends on what it is you wish to swage.

Trailer boats and off the beach boats can be hand swaged no worries, standing rigging for a yacht is usually roll swaged or die swaged in an hydraulic press.

It's a 265ft keel boat so I would never dream of doing rigging myself.
What I was thinking of was making up new safety wires and some strops of varying lengths for my headsails.

So would the 'boltcutter' style unit be okay and would I save enough doing those jobs myself to justify the expense?

Mychael

[Meanz Beanz]

I disagree with Par...

The first type of swaging tool he described is as good as the bolt cutter style in terms of strength for the sizes that they cover. The swage ends up compressed to exactly the same diameter and will be equal in strength. I have and use both. I would use neither on rigging any more than a dinghy, for more than that I would always use rolled swages. I make these comments knowing the tools that you will see on Chandlers shelves in Australia... there may be more powerful bolt cutter type tools that are up to more than the one's we generally see on the shelves but I would still opt for professionally done roll swages when doing standing rigging. The other thing to keep in mind with rigging is that our insurance companies are now quite strict with rigging check requirements and I am not sure any home done rigging would be acceptable to them.

As for the little bolt up type swaging tools...

1. They produce a neater swage.
2. They are smaller and easier to stow away on board.
3. They are slower and more frustrating to use.
4. They are limited to the smaller sizes.

The bolt up type tool will do what you need.

My 2c

[Meanz Beanz]

Originally Posted by Mychael

It's a 265ft keel boat so I would never dream of doing rigging myself.

Yikes!

Whats her name?

[Mychael]

Originally Posted by Meanz Beanz

Yikes!

Whats her name?

She's "typo".. As in type error.. lol.. Should be 26ft , that is Twenty-six foot.. lol.

Anyway, thanks for the info guys.. As I said I WOULD NOT do any standing rigging, just want to do safety wires and strops.. So,, boltcutter style or the screw clamp type (assuming of course I can find any of either).

Mychael

[Meanz Beanz]

http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_it...earch123=swage

Elizabeth St, City...

or online SA

http://www.binksonline.com.au/store/category156_1.htm

[PAR]

The bolt together type can't be adjusted and wear out, not that a one time user will have issue with this. The bolt cutter type can be adjusted, though they don't make as neat a swage, it's stronger and can be relied on for trailer sailors. In fact, you note in the fine print of the bolt down type of tool, it clearly states not for rigging. The jaws can be changed on the bolt cutter type too.

[waikikin]

Mychael, there may be no need to buy one, some chandlers will loan it with a price tag deposit for return if you buy the wire & fittings from them & also some riggers will do the work very neatly at their premises for low cost(minimum hourly plus a margin on fittings) if you supply the measurements (at your risk of a wrong measurement). Regards from Jeff.

[Landlubber]

Yeah mate, I have about 5 sets, you are welcome to borrow any of them.......I live in Brisbane though........

[Meanz Beanz]

Originally Posted by PAR

The bolt together type can't be adjusted and wear out, not that a one time user will have issue with this. The bolt cutter type can be adjusted, though they don't make as neat a swage, it's stronger and can be relied on for trailer sailors. In fact, you note in the fine print of the bolt down type of tool, it clearly states not for rigging. The jaws can be changed on the bolt cutter type too.

How do they wear out? Mine is 25 years old and still working fine, its two blocks of hardened steel and two bolts, crikey we are only talking about copper & nickel swages and not big ones at that. The most I have ever done is replace washers and lube the thing up a bit. Commonsense tells you that if the swage is the same material and compressed to the same degree the strength is the same. I have never had one fail....

[alan white]

In defense of hand swaging by way of the simplest tool, the two steel bars with half-holes, even for standing rigging on boats not highly loaded such as my 15 ft gaffer,

Doubling the swage does far more than double the reliablilty of the sleeve--- and tripling it (for another couple of dollars) would produce an unbelievably reliable terminal.
Ugly? Buehler recommends bulldog clamps I think. Now that's ugly!
On my 23 ft cruiser, I spent on Norseman style terminals. On the gaffer, or other small boats I've owned, I've always replaced rigging with larger sizes for greater peace of mind. increasing wire size also contributes to reliability of the terminals.
This comment is geared for those who are not wealthy, but who wish to sail on a budget. Hand-swaging standing rigging on a small (under one ton) sailboat is perfectly okay. Double the sleeves, and you will be fine. You'll also save a huge amount of cash.

[Stumble]

For lifelines I would get rid of the wire completely. The new composite lines are stronger, lighter, and actually less expensive, plus they don't have the annoying tendancy to rip arm hair out. I just made the switch on my Olson 30, and have been trhrilled by the results. It cost me about $400 to get all rope lifelines made, compared to over $650 for wire, and when the line needs replacement in 4 years or so (about 1/2 the lifespan of wire) the end fitting are reusable, and I will just need to replace the line.

If you are going with wire, make sure to stay away from the vinal coated wire. That stuff has a long history of accellerating corrosion and leading to premature failure.

Personally I would first price out having a local professional do the swagging, since it may not be as expensive as you think. Here they will do the labor almost for free to get the busines selling the components. And in my experience having a $300 tool you will only use infrequently is a large investment in storrage for it without a real use for it most of the time.

[alan white]

My swage tools (two groups of sizes) cost me under $100.00. My philosophy, which may not appeal to everyone, is to make every last part for my boat if I can.
Yachting has become synonamous with ridiculously expensive and that's fine if you have a lot of money to blow, but for the rest of us, well, we want to sail and eat too.
I would rather work on my own boat than work to earn the money to pay corporations and service people to make, supply, and service my boat.
It's true that professionals do great work, and occasionally I have tig welding done, for example. But by and large, my enjoyment of boating includes the simplicity and elegance of doing as much as I can myself.
I don't mean to disparage anyone who's chosen to define boat ownership as the usage of the boat alone. I only want to encourage the financially challenged to approach boating without feeling like they need to buy or be serviced when they build, modify or maintain.