Roof insulation

[boat fan]

You can take this to the next logical step, which eliminates most of the dimensional lumber requirements, but now you have to get the industry to bite into goo's and monocoque structures, which is more then pulling teeth to say the least. Maybe by then, we'll have moved into the era of high modulus polyesters and resins that remove the need for wooden sheet goods all together. Wooden platform frame construction will be considered "quaint" and inefficient, with the wife complaining about the stairs creaking as she walks up them. You and I will be long dead, but it's coming.

At the very least retired PAR ,


Here`s an interesting angle on modular :Interview: Ruhl Walker Architects Talk Shop with the Empyrean Design Partnership
( builders )

[QUOTEWill Ruhl: Even though you guys have shaken up things pretty nicely through Empyrean’s sub-assemblies, I would keep modular on your radar screen. It has a lot of promise still. Nevertheless, we found that the quality of modular construction did not end up better than site built for our project in CT. We struggled with the basic stuff that you struggle with on site built homes, that you’d think you wouldn’t have to deal with in modular - light fixtures and structure were not coordinated or aligned, for instance.

[QUOTEWill Ruhl: There are some risks with modular that I hadn’t thought about before, like how it an entire house can go up in three days. But that scares clients, too. One day there’s nothing, and the next day there’s a whole house. Since the clients don’t know what to expect, all of a sudden there’s a house and it’s too late to make any changes. With panelization, if you’re working with clients who want to make a change on the fly, it’s a lot easier to do, obviously.[/quote]


Brad Walker: I certainly wish there was a way, using panelization, whatever the next layers of evolution are, to get more and more done in the factory. Interior finishes, which are labor intensive, and the part you see all the time and therefore in need of precise craftsmanship, are done on site in your system. It would be great to be able to do that in the factory.

[/quote]

I hope it will happen sooner rather than later myself......will cost some jobs though.....

[apex1]

Ui ui ui...

where are you living?

Will Ruhl: There are some risks with modular that I hadn’t thought about before, like how it an entire house can go up in three days. But that scares clients, too. One day there’s nothing, and the next day there’s a whole house. Since the clients don’t know what to expect, all of a sudden there’s a house and it’s too late to make any changes. With panelization, if you’re working with clients who want to make a change on the fly, it’s a lot easier to do, obviously.

That is standard in W Europe since more than 50 years now.
And it did not cost any jobs, they just work under a roof now.

[boat fan]

Originally Posted by apex1

Ui ui ui...

where are you living?



That is standard in W Europe since more than 50 years now.
And it did not cost any jobs, they just work under a roof now.

That quote was from Ruhl Walker Architects in BOSTON, MA USA.

As things stand now, here in Australia most housing is produced on site.

I think it would cost jobs here Richard , because prefab housing
utilizes a higher degree of automation during production.
This is a country with just 22.5 million people , there would only be room for a select few big operators.
Exporting would not be viable from here , distances would prevent access to overseas markets , high transport costs would see to that.

All the on site crews would be gone .
You could probably argue that point for ever , as it is difficult to quantify accurately.

[PAR]

A small percentage of jobs have and will be lost to modular building methods. Platform framing also cost jobs over balloon framing, plywood cost jobs over double diagonal, electric saws and other tools cost jobs, the whining goes on, but it's typical of progress. We as a species don't have to climb trees to gather food any more, putting long armed brothers out work (maybe they should have had a union) too.

As ACad work progresses the bugs will get ironed out, and they have on the high end stuff. Start to finish "walk throughs" charge backs and change orders included before the panels hit the site have been preformed with flawless precision. Of course the other end is true as well, where the contractor is on the site with a chain saw cutting in new doors and windows. This all will be sorted out and yes, some jobs will be lost, but entire industries will open up and others will evolve. Robots were going to replace the auto worker and steam powered track laying machines where going to replace the railroad laborer, the same old song of the squinted eye, well entrenched non-visionary, which includes architects that aren't interested in learning new formulas, systems and methods to do a job "that worked just fine" the old way.

[boat fan]

Like I said before PAR ,I hope it will happen sooner rather than later myself....

[Fanie]

Manie,

Why don't you just use the PE foam on your roof. Remember you get it in various colours, so you can make it attractive as well when you walk on your boats walls

You can glue it in place with Sikaflex or Dow Corning. Any of those adhesives will work fine.

[apex1]

Originally Posted by boat fan

That quote was from Ruhl Walker Architects in BOSTON, MA USA.
I know and included the name in the quote.
As things stand now, here in Australia most housing is produced on site.

I think it would cost jobs here Richard , because prefab housing
utilizes a higher degree of automation during production.

You could probably argue that point for ever , as it is difficult to quantify accurately.

Have no reason to argue that forever. But fact is, that the automated part of the prefab. is´nt so much, and that our construction business has soon found out, that ALL the skilled labour still is involved. Even the brick layers have´nt lost their jobs, many of those prefab. houses are still clad in bricks!

Looking at the facts one should bear in mind, that the standard (regulations and tradition), to which our houses are built, either way, is so unbelievable high that there is no price difference also.

Regards
Richard

[boat fan]

Bricks !!!!!!......................now there is an outdated way of building a house !

Energy intensive to produce.
Energy intensive to transport
Energy intensive to erect.
Anything remotely connected to cement is also.
Slow........OUTDATED ..........TERRIBLE !!!!

It`s not really surprising , nor co- incidence that the most advanced prefab. construction methods are being developed in the Northern Hemisphere , given
that this part of the world experiences the harsh winters not favorable to on site construction.Your building standards are high , no doubt about it Richard.
It`s a product of a well developed , mature and established industry in your part ( EUROPE ) of the world.

It`s also not surprising that it has lagged behind in Australia , as we don`t have " winters" in that sense. No need to go indoors.



What my original point about all this was , it`s not necessary to go to highly engineered panels and their associated expense to clad / skin / insulate / roof a house boat.


Too far off topic now , so I will now be quiet on that topic .

[apex1]

Me tooo

[SamSam]

Originally Posted by boat fan

Actually PAR , in the 18 plus years I have spent in the building industry , I have yet to see a panel system that is regularly used that is highly engineered for high loading.


Speed of construction has improved significantly , but , at least in the domestic sector that I work in ,all systems now commonly used still rely on the conventional premise that paneling is fixed to , or hung off skeletal
framing or sub - framing.Just as it has been for decades , in fact more than a century.

In one of TedBenson's timberframing books he has a chapter or two devoted to the history of SIPs and in one (1980-or 90s) there was photos and a short description of a motel being put up where the wall panels supported the roof trusses. You could be right in that studs might have been incorporated into the panel, I don't remember. The whole thing was assembled in a day, the panels camlocked together almost as fast as they could be unloaded from the truck.

I am kind of interested in something where a wall panel and a roof panel of the length needed could be built under cover, horizontilly,on a flat surface, where gravity would be your friend and bad weather might be considered pleasant, and then be put in place. I would also want a wall and roof system where you could utilize the roof for porch like purposes, walking, sitting, eating etc. It would have to be "ciphered" or designed using interior components like bulkheads, walls, cabinets, maybe a beam or two as structure, but it would seem to be light, strong, insulated etc.

[boat fan]

That can most certainly be done Sam , I don`t see any problem there.

I`m not familiar with the example in the Ted Benson book , and the panels referred to may or may not have framing integrated within them , but I do know without any doubt , that the way we build today , here and now , SIP does not feature to any significant degree.

I think you could produce panels like that by laminating.
Roof panels could be laminated with foam / glass , or foam / kevlar ( costly ) or foam /ply even ,
over a simple cambered mold. It would not be too difficult or costly to produce some test panels .
Edges can be rebated like t & g flooring .Channel capping (similar to the way fences are built here) , can slip over the wall panel edges ,( mostly self aligning) and use of non - ferrous tek fasteners would ensure fast assembly.

Personally I would like to see more of it if the cost is contained.