new guy

[oddball]

Hello gentlemen this is my first time here and have a few question, I am a first time boat builder and would like some advice
It looks like i will be doing a wood boat as my first.
http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/HTML/EURO12B.htm
EURO12M
I have chosen wood because of cost considerations, but they sell the pre cut steel kit for $23000 and I am wondering would i bet better off in the end using steel for the sake of resale and longevity
http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...ffers-kits.htm

EURO12M

BAD LINKS FIXED...sorry should have tested them


thnx for your input

[gonzo]

Are you a welder or a carpenter?

[oddball]

thnx for relpying gonzo, I do plumbing,electrical,tile,HVAC,carpentry,webpublishin,graphics editing, engine repair, computer building ,upgrading and repair
and some other things i cant remeber right now ,I have not tryed welding yet

[gonzo]

If you are handy, as it seems to be, a welding course may be enough. Bad welds or a wrong welding schedule will results in distorted plates and structural failure. If you are more knowledgeable in woodwoork, a plywood boat may be better. Either material is good. When you do your cost estimate for comparison, figure on the hull and deck being about 20-30% of the total cost. It depends largely on the type of rigging and interior. As for resale value, an amateur built steel boat has very little.

[oddball]

thnx gonzo, I have read that the upkeep on a stell boat is something of a pain and people tend to prefer fiberglass, The kit I am looking at also come in wood/epoxy plans aswell , does the wood/epoxy method mean that when I am done that i incase the wooden hull in fiberglass? I have choesen to cut my yeeth a a small 15 foot sailboat i found in this forum, the planes are free and the boat looks pretty simple.
What do you think a 40 foot wood/epoxy boat mite be worht once it is done, by done i mean ready to sail.

thnx again for you help

[ErikG]

...just personal opinion...

I believe the percieved value of any amateur built boat is low!

The way to raise it is to make it look great and with a cruiser successfully cruise some badass weather and do it without any problems and have a magazine write about it, or if it would be a racer, perform well and WIN!

Other than that, DON'T build a boat yourself to sell it! Build to own!
Or...Buy a popular boat, that has most of the features that you like, if you want to be able to sell it again without taking a financial risk. Old cruising boats keep their value a lot better than old racers.

Erik

[gonzo]

A 40' boat can be worth from nothing to a lot of money. It depends on how it was built, the quality of finishing, equipment, interior layout, sail inventory, type of design, name of designer, etc. It is not possible to put a price on a length alone.

[oddball]

thank you eric, I still have much to learn about boats but i also see the fantastic prces that our asked for these boats , at iboats.com anyboat that is 40ft and newer than 1998 seems to have a tag of around $200.000, so that is what led me to ask what the resale is on a homebuilt boat.
thnx again for your input

[oddball]

just saw your post gonzo, I uderstand what you are saying a strip down jeep can be had for $15.000 or the same model fully loaded for $32.000. I will keep reading and learning before i start my project.

[Bob Smalser]

A 40-foot yacht done alone is a huge project part-time...perhaps decades long.

Glad you're cutting your teeth on a smaller project, first...even small boats can consume 300-800 hours, depending on how complicated.

Whether sheathed plywood or steel depends on where you intend to take the boat, I'd think...and expense...steel is very expensive where I live as are the necessary coatings.

I'm reasonably-versed in both welding and wood. I could teach you to adequately weld on flat surfaces in a day. But hulls aren't flat...and those, vertical, past-vertical and overhead welds take a lot of practice to master. And the most-critical welds are done first in the hull...our local shipyard has apprentices do lesser-important topside welds first...and you don't have that option short of a substantial crane and perfect lofting.

So keep reading and asking questions as you do your small-boat project. And a local course in basic welding will be worth the effort anyway....my welder is worked several times a month in support of wood construction.

[oddball]

thank you bob, at first glance the EURO12 (40ft) did not looktobe to hard...but as the details unfold the time goes up, my plans are up in the air right now...build or used..I will probably buy used but I willl keep learning as I will need to know what I am looking at when i buy one, I am waiting to hear from a man with a 57 ft chris craft connie ($25,000) the boat has been neglected for years and the motors are not hooked up, but over all it looks pretty good, if do decide to go that rout i will have a survey done first.

The welding is something i have wanted to learn for years, my friends work mate gave me a break down of welding such as the different technics that are used for different metals and the different types of welders i.e arc, gas..the others i cant remember right now, but it is a skill i plan to pick up whether i build a boat or not.

[flame]

@oddball

Hi,

just to give you an idea:
I spent about 5 years of thinking and planning a new-build of a PIRAT dinghy (countless hours behind drawing board and CAD), while I was sailing my old PIRAT - so I can say I knew every centimeter of my old boat.

My ambition was to imagine each building step before cutting into the first piece of wood. I wanted to see it in my brain how all building steps had to be linked & related.

Then I started only when I knew I had a time budget of approx 3 months in one block, to get to some kind of state before entering the "canigotomyworkshoponsaturdaydear" phase

My whole work consumed following approx hours:
Item hours percent
Deck 44:00 7,5%
Fittings 12:00 2,0%
Foundat 55:45 9,5% *
Hull 244:00 41,5%
Inside 92:30 15,7%
Paint 63:00 10,7%
Tools, Place, Logistics 77:00 13,1%
Total 588:15 100,0%

* formers, false floor etc.
**cleaning, sharpen tools, get raw material, accomodate workshop

View the outcome of these hours at http://www.dauda.at
Wasted times (abt. 40 hours) included (see "Going back to the roots")

Good luck & keep my fingers crossed for your project
Mike

[gonzo]

Thanks Mike. It is good to have realistic feedback. You kept a log of your hours, so it is a true working time instead of overoptimistical.

[flame]

Hi Gonzo & all,

yes - I was astonished myself. Before really entering my hand-written diary data into a spreadsheet I would have sweared having spent no more than 400 - 450 hours

almost the same goes for the money ...

30% rental cost
18% rig, rudder, centerboard
17% material
13% fittings
09% Epoxy
08% CAD machine cutting
05% Paints and varnish

most surprising for me the biggest spending block was rental cost. I was not aware of that because the money goes off each month almost undetected
Given that I had 107 days of activity in a period of approx 500 rent days (21%), this shines a certain light on further project approaches for me.

Cheers
Mike