Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors
  #91  
Old 09-01-2010, 08:06 PM
david@boatsmith david@boatsmith is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Rep: 75 Posts: 120
Location: Jupiter Fl USA
we use regular steel tie wire, it is stronger than copper and MUCH cheaper. In high load areas we will double the wire.
__________________
Boatsmith Inc
We Build Your Dreams
(561) 744-0855
www.boatsmithfl.com
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 09-02-2010, 12:00 AM
ThomD ThomD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rep: 111 Posts: 521
Location: TO
I use zip ties these days, they work great. I wouldn't worry too much about drills or hookie things. the key is to be able to adjust the ties exactly, not power them down willy nilly. So with copper, I overlapped them, then I twisted them. What you are trying to do is isolate the area, so sometimes that means cranking until the copper breaks and you double or triple it, other times it means one big snug kink, that holds it just so. I Used the battery method to get the copper wires out, outside. Real neighbourhood pleaser. I'm not sure zip ties will work for a CM hull because of various things in there, though even in certain places it would be worth it. The ties get bent down from the inside, and some ductility, and stiffness is an asset.
When I did my amas, I used the seat belt webbing method, on one of the the three I built, which is highly superior, though I don't know how you would bond to curved panels. While I just built a small tri, it ended up being 84 feet of keel!
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 09-02-2010, 06:57 AM
CatBuilder CatBuilder is offline
Previous Member
 
ThomD: My thought was to start the twisting with the drill, then hand tighten as it begins to take up the slack. It's the first 10 twists or so you can easily eliminate. You definitely need a variable speed drill though. Nice n' slow with the drill, then hand twist to perfection.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 09-04-2010, 10:48 AM
CatBuilder CatBuilder is offline
Previous Member
 
Charly (and the others):

I hope you don't mind if I drop a few questions in this thread as well. My boat build is so similar to Charly's that it seems silly to start a new thread just to ask other Kurt Hughes Cylinder Mold questions.

Currently, I'm at this stage:



That's the first panel I have made in its vacuum bag. I had a small problem with the panel, as Charly did. He had that section with a void. I have a different, but similar issue:

At the tightest part of the radius for the turn of the bilge, a couple of my scarf joints in the topmost layer of plywood (there are 3 layers) isn't sitting down 100% on the layer below it.

This loose scarf joint runs about 6-12" from bilge to topsides. It's separated by about the thickness of a dime at most. It wasn't visible as a problem during bagging, since it was under a layer of bubble wrap.

The area that isn't bonded is (as I mentioned) 6-12" from bilge to topsides along a scarf joint and runs about 4-6" deep, away from the scarf joint.

Any thoughts on fixing this so I don't have to end up with a big bulge to fair out later?
Attached Thumbnails
Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-firsthullhalf.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 09-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
Hey Catbuilder,
Sounds like the same problem with the stiff ply and the bi-axial mold. You will want to tap the whole panel when you are done and fill any voids.

Increasing the vacuum pressure probably would help, if that is possible.

Glad to see you are making progress!
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 09-06-2010, 07:12 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
Rollover!

Is this what you meant Lentil? Thanks for the idea

worked great till I got the sheer wedged and stuck on the ceiling I had to crawl under one wheel and cut off a section with my sawzall... that lowered it enough to roll it on over. Not a good feeling under there
Attached Thumbnails
Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-rollover-1-.jpg  Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-rollover-2-.jpg  Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-rollover-3-.jpg  

Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-rollover-4-.jpg  Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-rollover-5-.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 09-08-2010, 09:16 AM
CatBuilder CatBuilder is offline
Previous Member
 
Nice! That rollover looks useful and pretty simple to build. I see you just used some scrap OSB and part of the old mold.

So do you stand on one end and support that with your hands while the two semicircles support the middle and other end? Nice one man roll, if so!

I guess I'll be looking for voids and filling. No big deal, I guess?


New Problem:

We put on a new vacuum bag today because the first one tore. (we're on the 3rd hull half)

Well, this new bag seems to be leaking. I have the thing sealed off like usual and don't see any holes on the top. I suspect we might have one on the underside where you can't reach. However, the bag isn't pulling down like it usually would. It's loose enough to pull the bag up off the plywood AND... there are some parts where the bag is just kind of barely hanging onto the plywood.

I put my entire scrap pile up on the mold to help. There is partial vacuum, but it's weak.

Any ideas if this will cause a blown panel or not?

Sitting here all day waiting for the results is killing me!

I'm off to get a new bag today ($100 a piece) at Home Depot.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 09-08-2010, 07:23 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
I just levered the boat up from the middle, adding blocks underneath, until the sheer stringer was about two feet off the floor. Once the wheels started bearing some of the weight, it was a cinch to roll it on over. I did it alone, and just braced it up with a two by four long enough to stop and take pictures. The boat was stiff enough, with thwart braces, etc, so the ends did not sag.

I don't know what to say about the bag. I had some leaks, but was able to stop them with duct tape on both sides of the plastic, so that I had duct tape contacting duct tape.

I have found several voids though, and fixed them using the techniques outlined by others in this thread. I think they are probably inevitable to some degree.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 09-09-2010, 11:46 AM
CatBuilder CatBuilder is offline
Previous Member
 
Now that I have completed my 4 panels (each is 1/2 of a hull), I will comment on some differences between the way Charly did them and the way I did them, for interested readers. I will comment in blue. Again, Charly, or anyone else, if you feel my post is out of place in here and that I should start a new Kurt Hughes thread for my build, please let me know and I/we/mods can move my comments out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charly View Post
Well, I have finally actually produced something. The first cylinder mould session went pretty smooth. The worst calamity was when I ruined a 30 foot tape measure in a weak moment of doubt when I went to measure a wet peice of okume, and got resin all over the tape.

I am now done all 4 hull halves. Some calamities I had were: We ripped the bag way down in the lip area of the mold, whee it could not be fixed. Because of this, I now have a panel with several very large voids (one is 4' long!). The same panel ripped when we were moving it around. It has 3' tears in it from bow towards midships and also from stern towards midships. I am going to use this thread as well as Kurt's advice to see if this panel is junk (I sure hope not!) or if I can fix it and have it be reliable for crossing oceans.

some notes:

I used 6 mil poly for the bag. For sealing, I took sections of3/4 inch pvc conduit, glued up into two long 38 foot pieces, and duct -taped them to the long edges of the poly, (with the tape on both sides of the plastic). Then on the bottom one, I unrolled and laid out a continuous piece of rope caulk, about a half inch away from the conduit. When it came time to seal the bag, all we had to do was to press the top piece snugly against the bottom piece, and down into the rope caulk, and then roll the whole thing up for several turns and clamp them every few feet. The hardest part is keeping it rolled up tightly and neatly until you can clamp it in place. But it worked great, and was fast.

Like Charly, I used 6 mil poly. It is nice because it is fairly resistant to tears, except when you mistreat it. To seal the bag, I used Liquid Nails panel adhesive. It was *so* easy! I bought the 100' x 20' roll of 6 mil poly, so I only had to seal 3 sides around the 8' wide panel being bagged. You place a bead of Liquid Nails all along the bag, where you want to seal it, then you either put it down to the floor and press against bag/Liquid Nails/bag, or you put one hand under on the lower bag and one hand on the upper bag and squish the Liquid Nails. Just going along and squishing the Liquid Nails worked phenomenally well with no leaks in the seal, ever.

I found it easier to just cover all exposed plywood edges on the male forms with duct tape than to sand the splinters off.

I did not cover any of my plywood. I had used a grinder/sander to sand them into their appropriate shapes while all in a stack, so they were "smooth enough" for my 6mil poly, IMO.

the cleat on the bottom of the form. when slacking off the screws to open it up a little bit so that the three layers of okume will all fit, I was worried that the okume might actually sip down inside too far, and bind everything up- preventing a tight clamp with the screws. So I screwed on a ledger at the same height as the form, to the inside of the board... which would move with it when the screws were slacked off- that way, the plywood could not get down between the boards of the form, and the longitudinal board that screws into them.

Kurt recommends backing off the top screw, as Charly did. I did this with the first panel, but found it to be entirely unnecessary on my mold. There was plenty of room for 3 sheets of 3mm, all the epoxy and the bag in that lip. I think I have a different mold than most because it also didn't have provisions for a runner. It uses the lip and a gusset on the back to keep it in place.


The numbering and lettering of each piece made everything fall into place without having to think anymore about layout. This was a big big help. On the KH36, the plys are scarfed and joined to make them into 8x8 (actually on mine 8x7) panels. Since the length and freeboard of each boat is different, they all have their individual layout quirks, but having one scarf line fall atop another scarf line on a different layer (three layers in a KH36) is a structural no no. In addition, the bevels all have to mate up, so it takes some planning and thought. When space is limited, it makes it all that more difficult to keep track, because you can't just spread a bunch of 8x8 panels around like a deck of cards. I used an alphabet system A, B, and C for each sucessive layer, and a fore and aft numbering system for each individual layer. Since the panels on my boat are seven feet high, this makes for a four foot wide sheet of ply, and a three foot rip. So layer A gets a four on top and a three on the bottom, followed by a three on top and a four on the bottom, etc. This layer staggers the horizontal breaks. Then the vertical breaks are staggered, in my case three layers, so cut the first panel on the A layer 32inches long, the first on the B layer 64, and the first on the C layer gets a full 96. Kurt says in the instructions that this should make the fold-up go easier at the bow section also. I numbered mine with a magic marker in the top left hand corner of each piece of the puzzle, and also wrote on red ink on the sides that get no epoxy. I was paranoid that my helpers might coat the wrong side in their enthusaism.

I deviated a lot from Charly's method here. I did practically nothing to organize my layup. I didn't label any sheets. All I did was create a stack of 8x8's (epoxied and scarfed 4x8's) with enough sheets to do the entire boat, pre-scarfed and piled in a big stack. In the wee hours of the night, as we set up to do a layup, I took two sheets from the stack and cut one in half and one at 6' and 2'. We'd start with a 6' section, then use full panels from the pile, ending with a 2' section. Next, we'd start with a 4' section, then use full panels from the pile, ending with another 4' section. Lastly, we'd just throw up a full row of full size 8x8's from the stack to finish off. We didn't feel we needed any labeling or anything.


Now I have a question for those more experienced:
I have one spot about a foot square that rings hollow-- right at the turn of the bilge, near the transom. I have never fixed this kind of thing before, so should I drill a bunch of holes and inject some thick resin? could I use foam-- and If I do how much "relief" holes should I drill to keep it from pushing out? Is there anothr better way to fix it? It will eventually be sheathed in cloth.

I've had the same problem and have it especially bad on the panel where the vacuum bag was torn.

One down, three to go.

All inputs welcomed.

Charly
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:38 AM
eladio eladio is offline
trimaran...
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rep: 10 Posts: 17
Location: ARGENTINA
Hello everybody, my name is Eladio and I'm trying to decide which model of Kurt Hughes can build, thinking that you have already gone through that process and are already building their boats, insurance can help.
My decision is based on the type of navigation I have planned to perform, and the speed of the boat. My intentions are sailing along the coast of Brazil, sailing on the coast and also in open sea.

It is important to velocodad the boat, some domestic comforts that life is not so hard, but basically miy make a boat fast and easy construction.
I'm between two models: The 36 day charter and the 40 'trimaran mad dog.
The 36 'looks simple to build but do not know if I have good speed, plus you can sell it faster than a trimaran when the "fever" pass. While 40'luce as a good runner, and also simple, its interior comfort seems "acceptable."
I have read a lot about Cylinder mold, and I think that is an excellent system. (More photos please builders!)

I'm sure I've left many areas without regard, so I ask help to you, and any comments are welcome.


Congratulations to the boat builders, I am very enthusiastic about their experiences and photos of all the steps.

Best regards
Eladio
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 09-20-2010, 02:20 PM
uncookedlentil uncookedlentil is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rep: 8 Posts: 81
Location: Olympic peninsula Washington
the 36 day charter was a delight to build and with some careful cabin work would make a very nice tandem or solo cruiser. it's a little lite but the one I directed took some nasty storms on the lower Great Lakes including numerous big wave stuffings.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 09-20-2010, 06:24 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
Beinvenido eladio,

I can't answer your questions about the performance of Kurt Hughes boats, but I hope to keep this thread going throughout my build of the daycharter 36 Perhaps my experiences will help you decide.

So far I am very pleased with the results.

Mucha suerte,

Charly
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 09-20-2010, 07:09 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
keel pour

I had hoped to do this all in one wet out, but I ran out of resin. It took way more than I had figured, or guessed, actually, since I didn't bother to try and measure the empty space on each side of the keel timber. Mistake.
The good news is that I didn't cover the the keel timber, so all I have to do to prep for the next session is to rough grind the top of the cedar plank, and a little bit of hardened bog on each side of it. Then I can form the big cove, and lay on the other two long pieces of biax.

The plans call for: wet out keel area; bog in the crack, to cover the wires; 1 strip of biax tape,; more bog; embed the keel timber; more bog to form the cove; two overlapping strips of biax on top of that; and finally peel ply. Eat your cheerios.

Next time I will try and fashion a more perfect fitting keel timber, so as to use less epoxy. I went through nine gallons already, and will probably need three or four more.

just ignore the first photo. it is from an earlier session
Attached Thumbnails
Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-2010-08-14-08-52-37_office3-2-.jpg  Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-2010-09-18-10-58-42_office3.jpg  Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-2010-09-19-13-38-53_office3.jpg  

Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-2010-09-19-13-39-22_office3.jpg  

Last edited by Charly : 09-20-2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: operator trouble
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 09-20-2010, 07:12 PM
Charly Charly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rep: 377 Posts: 429
Location: st simons island ga
keel pour
Attached Thumbnails
Kurt Hughes Daycharter 36-2010-09-18-10-35-30_office3.jpg  

Last edited by Charly : 09-20-2010 at 07:16 PM. Reason: messup
Reply With Quote


  #105  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:38 PM
eladio eladio is offline
trimaran...
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rep: 10 Posts: 17
Location: ARGENTINA
Friends, thanks for your comments, and welcome words!.
Really follow the process of construction, enthusiasm, to make that day charter 36 ...
And as say-unkookedlentil. can achieve a comfortable cabin for travel.
This model has a large deck that allows life on board a very "lazy" Perhaps a roof is needed there.

I'll be waiting for more data and comments from the buildings, this makes this post very interesting and useful for those who want to make a Kurt Hughes boat.

Best regards
Eladio
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
kurt hughes trimaran plans on ebay rapscallion Marketplace 7 10-22-2016
09:16 PM 
Kurt Hughes 8m caiman Multihulls 3 12-27-2008
04:33 PM 
Cylinder Mold by Kurt Hughes Othmar Multihulls 9 04-10-2008
02:55 AM 
kurt hughes rapscallion Multihulls 0 03-09-2007
02:12 PM 
Daycharter Sail Catamaran Plans? caribmon Boat Design 2 05-06-2005
02:57 PM 

Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2017 Boat Design Net