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  #1  
Old 06-07-2006, 12:46 PM
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millrtim247 millrtim247 is offline
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getting a homebuilt registered

Hey,
Planning on starting my first build after the new year (bolger sneakeasy).Was going to build a panga but ive already got a Whaler so... I've been puting together Huckelberry Fin type stuff just for fun for years. I've been on here reading and on dozens of other sites and books researching planking, stich n glue, etc. And I figure now that I have decided on a boat, I can take the next 6 mos to order materials, plans, kits, set up the garage, etc. My question is;
Where can I find a requlations manual or something to that effect concerning getting my boat I.D., registered, weight/passenger/power rated in Florida? Where do I take it? I've worked at 3 diferent Coast Gaurd units in the Tampa Bay area and have never come across this. Are they going to make me scuttle it? If so, should I wait till after to install electronics, upholstry, engine? I would imagine FL to be quite a stickler in this dept. compared to other states.
Or do I just go to the tax collector's office and get a registration for it like I would my other boats? Any advise or direction will help. Thanks, Glen
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2006, 05:40 PM
Billy Bones Billy Bones is offline
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I've been told that the registration of boats is covered by federal standards, although enforced by state authorities--hence everyone's reg numbers follow the same format. Here in the Virgin Islands I went to the territorial dept of planning and natural resources and asked them what I needed. They said I needed a notarized affidavit identifying the boat exactly and stating that I was the builder. This I did, in lieu of a bill of sale, and was registered within minutes.

The passenger and power rating business is for commercial craft or commercial builders of craft and does not apply, as I understand it, to the one-off home builder.

Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:01 PM
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Ike Ike is offline
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Every recreational boat must have a Hull Identification Number (HIN). Normally these are assigned by the boat manufacturer using a Manufacturers Identification Code assigned by the Coast Guard. However, in the case of a homebuilt boat the HIN is assigned by the state in which the boat is registered. When you go to register the boat, tell them it is a home built boat (or back yard built boat). The may make you sign something attesting to this. Anyway, when they assign the registration they will also assign an HIN. Each state has been given a manufacturers ID Code that identifies the state that assigned the HIN. If you have any questions on this call Rick Gipe at USCG HQ 202-267-0985 or e-mail him at rgipe@comdt.uscg.mil. You can also look it up on their web site at www.uscgboating.org
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:37 AM
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millrtim247 millrtim247 is offline
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Thanks Bones and Ike. Ive just read about people having to scuttl etheir boats or having to go through thorough inspections to get their boats registered. I'll check with the registration office and send Mr. Gripe at HQ an e-mail.
Thanks again!
Glen
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2006, 10:42 PM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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Florida law expresly exempts homebuilts from having a HIN. They assign it one in the computer for registration purposes but it does not have to be attached to the boat. I registered one last year I built from a set of molds I bought. The problem is if you are stopped in such a boat the L.E.O. may not beleive it is homebuilt. I carry pictures of the mold and me working on it just in case (and to show off also.). Also save all receipts showing sales tax paid on the material. They did not ask for it in my case but I heard (Thirdhand) that they can ask for this. You still have to affix the assigned FL boat number after you register it. It took me about ten minutes to legally register my homebuilt and it withstood scrutiny of one coast guard stop/safety inspection.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:01 PM
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Also save all receipts showing sales tax paid on the material. They did not ask for it in my case but I heard (Thirdhand) that they can ask for this.

They can ask you to do a jig as well -- you don't have to.
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:49 AM
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Ike Ike is offline
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That is absurd! Federal Law Title33 Code of Federal Regulations part 181.23-181.35 makes the HIN a requirement for ALL recreational boats, manufactured or home built. Including display. The Federal Law. Title 43, US Code also preempts any state from passing a law that does not comply with this. I have worked closely with the state of Florida on this for over two decades and never heard of such a thing. In most states including Florida your boat can be impounded if it doesn't have an HIN properly displayed. As far as they are concerned it may be a stolen boat.

Look at this link. Then if you have any questions call the Boating Law administrator for Florida. (the second link)

http://www.boat-ed.com/fl/handbook/toc.htm
http://www.nasbla.org/stateInfo.php?stateAbbr=FL

His name is Richard Moore 850-488-5600
He is fairly new there so I haven't talked to him personally but I'm sure he can give you the straight scoop.
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2006, 11:25 AM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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Here is the law

328.07 Hull identification number required.--

(1) No person shall operate on the waters of this state a vessel the construction of which began after October 31, 1972, for which the department has issued a certificate of title or which is required by law to be registered, unless the vessel displays the assigned hull identification number affixed by the manufacturer as required by the United States Coast Guard or by the department for a homemade vessel or other vessel for which a hull identification number is not required by the United States Coast Guard. The hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, or otherwise permanently affixed to the outboard side of the transom or, if there is no transom, to the outermost starboard side at the end of the hull that bears the rudder or other steering mechanism, above the waterline of the vessel in such a way that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and evident. The characters of the hull identification number must be no less than 12 in number and no less than one-fourth inch in height.

(2) No person shall operate on the waters of this state a vessel the construction of which was completed before November 1, 1972, for which the department has issued a certificate of title or which is required by law to be registered, unless the vessel displays a hull identification number. The hull identification number shall be clearly imprinted in the transom or on the hull by stamping, impressing, or marking with pressure. In lieu of imprinting, the hull identification number may be displayed on a plate in a permanent manner. A vessel for which the manufacturer has provided no hull identification number or a homemade vessel shall be assigned a hull identification number by the department which shall be affixed to the vessel pursuant to this section.

(3)(a) No person, firm, association, or corporation shall destroy, remove, alter, cover, or deface the hull identification number or hull serial number, or plate bearing such number, of any vessel, except to make necessary repairs which require the removal of the hull identification number and immediately upon completion of such repairs shall reaffix the hull identification number in accordance with subsection (2).

(b) If any of the hull identification numbers required by the United States Coast Guard for a vessel manufactured after October 31, 1972, do not exist or have been altered, removed, destroyed, covered, or defaced or the real identity of the vessel cannot be determined, the vessel may be seized as contraband property by a law enforcement agency or the division, and shall be subject to forfeiture pursuant to ss. 932.701-932.707. Such vessel may not be sold or operated on the waters of the state unless the division receives a request from a law enforcement agency providing adequate documentation or is directed by written order of a court of competent jurisdiction to issue to the vessel a replacement hull identification number which shall thereafter be used for identification purposes. No vessel shall be forfeited under the Florida Contraband Forfeiture Act when the owner unknowingly, inadvertently, or neglectfully altered, removed, destroyed, covered, or defaced the vessel hull identification number.

(4)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess, manufacture, sell or exchange, offer to sell or exchange, supply in blank, or give away any counterfeit manufacturer's vessel hull identification number plate or decal or any manufacturer's vessel hull identification plate or decal which is assigned to another vessel to be used for the purpose of identification of any vessel; to authorize, direct, aid in exchange, or give away such counterfeit manufacturer's vessel hull identification number plate or decal or any manufacturer's vessel hull identification number plate or decal which is assigned to another vessel; or to conspire to do any of the foregoing. However, nothing in this subsection shall be applicable to any approved hull identification number plate or decal issued as a replacement by the manufacturer, the department, or another state.

(b) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly buy, sell, offer for sale, receive, dispose of, conceal, or have in his or her possession any vessel or part thereof on which the assigned identification number has been altered, removed, destroyed, covered, or defaced or maintain such vessel in any manner which conceals or misrepresents the true identity of the vessel.

(c) Any person who violates any provision of this subsection is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(5) The failure to have the hull identification number clearly displayed in compliance with this section shall be probable cause for any Division of Law Enforcement officer or other authorized law enforcement officer to make further inspection of the vessel in question to ascertain the true identity thereof.

(6) Each vessel manufactured after the effective date of this act for sale in the state shall have a hull identification number displayed prior to sale or delivery for sale in accordance with the regulations set forth in 33 C.F.R. part 181. The hull identification number shall not be altered or replaced by the manufacturer or manufacturer's representative for the purpose of upgrading the model year of a vessel after being offered for sale or delivered to any dealer.

(7) No person or firm shall assign the same hull identification number to more than one vessel.
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Old 06-17-2006, 11:40 AM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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Unless I am reading this wrong my original post is consistant with the Fl law above. Homebuilts made before 1972 had to affix the assigned number. The homebuilts built after 1972 are not required to post the HUN. I'll concead that there may be some federal law that says differently, but the above is the entire Fl law on the subject.
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2006, 12:23 PM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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The law defined, read (11)

327.02 Definitions of terms used in this chapter and in chapter 328.--As used in this chapter and in chapter 328, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning, the term:

(1) "Alien" means a person who is not a citizen of the United States.

(2) "Boating accident" means a collision, accident, or casualty involving a vessel in or upon, or entering into or exiting from, the water, including capsizing, collision with another vessel or object, sinking, personal injury, death, disappearance of any person from on board under circumstances which indicate the possibility of death or injury, or property damage to any vessel or dock.

(3) "Canoe" means a light, narrow vessel with curved sides and with both ends pointed. A canoe-like vessel with a transom may not be excluded from the definition of a canoe if the width of its transom is less than 45 percent of the width of its beam or it has been designated as a canoe by the United States Coast Guard.

(4) "Commercial vessel" means:

(a) Any vessel primarily engaged in the taking or landing of saltwater fish or saltwater products or freshwater fish or freshwater products, or any vessel licensed pursuant to s. 370.06 from which commercial quantities of saltwater products are harvested, from within and without the waters of this state for sale either to the consumer, retail dealer, or wholesale dealer.

(b) Any other vessel, except a recreational vessel as defined in this section.

(5) "Commission" means the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

(6) "Dealer" means any person authorized by the Department of Revenue to buy, sell, resell, or otherwise distribute vessels. Such person shall have a valid sales tax certificate of registration issued by the Department of Revenue and a valid commercial or occupational license required by any county, municipality, or political subdivision of the state in which the person operates.

(7) "Division" means the Division of Law Enforcement of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

(8) "Documented vessel" means a vessel for which a valid certificate of documentation is outstanding pursuant to 46 C.F.R. part 67.

(9) "Floating structure" means a floating entity, with or without accommodations built thereon, which is not primarily used as a means of transportation on water but which serves purposes or provides services typically associated with a structure or other improvement to real property. The term "floating structure" includes, but is not limited to, each entity used as a residence, place of business or office with public access, hotel or motel, restaurant or lounge, clubhouse, meeting facility, storage or parking facility, mining platform, dredge, dragline, or similar facility or entity represented as such. Floating structures are expressly excluded from the definition of the term "vessel" provided in this section. Incidental movement upon water or resting partially or entirely on the bottom shall not, in and of itself, preclude an entity from classification as a floating structure.

(10) "Florida Intracoastal Waterway" means the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway, the Georgia state line north of Fernandina to Miami; the Port Canaveral lock and canal to the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway; the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway, Miami to Key West; the Okeechobee Waterway, Stuart to Fort Myers; the St. Johns River, Jacksonville to Sanford; the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, Anclote to Fort Myers; the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, Carrabelle to Tampa Bay; Carrabelle to Anclote open bay section (using Gulf of Mexico); the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, Carrabelle to the Alabama state line west of Pensacola; and the Apalachicola, Chattahoochee, and Flint Rivers in Florida.

(11) "Homemade vessel" means any vessel built after October 31, 1972, for which a federal hull identification number is not required to be assigned by the manufacturer pursuant to federal law, or any vessel constructed or assembled prior to November 1, 1972, by other than a licensed manufacturer for his or her own use or the use of a specific person. A vessel assembled from a manufacturer's kit or constructed from an unfinished manufactured hull shall be considered to be a homemade vessel if such a vessel is not required to have a hull identification number assigned by the United States Coast Guard. A rebuilt or reconstructed vessel shall in no event be construed to be a homemade vessel.

(12) "Houseboat" means any vessel which is used primarily as a residence for a minimum of 21 days during any 30-day period, in a county of this state, and this residential use of the vessel is to the preclusion of the use of the vessel as a means of transportation.

(13) "Length" means the measurement from end to end over the deck parallel to the centerline excluding sheer.

(14) "Lien" means a security interest which is reserved or created by a written agreement recorded with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles pursuant to s. 328.15 which secures payment or performance of an obligation and is generally valid against third parties.

(15) "Lienholder" means a person holding a security interest in a vessel, which interest is recorded with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles pursuant to s. 328.15.

(16) "Live-aboard vessel" means:

(a) Any vessel used solely as a residence; or

(b) Any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.

A commercial fishing boat is expressly excluded from the term "live-aboard vessel."

(17) "Livery vessel" means any vessel leased, rented, or chartered to another for consideration.

(18) "Manufactured vessel" means any vessel built after October 31, 1972, for which a federal hull identification number is required pursuant to federal law, or any vessel constructed or assembled prior to November 1, 1972, by a duly licensed manufacturer.

(19) "Marina" means a licensed commercial facility which provides secured public moorings or dry storage for vessels on a leased basis. A commercial establishment authorized by a licensed vessel manufacturer as a dealership shall be considered a marina for nonjudicial sale purposes.

(20) "Marine sanitation device" means any equipment other than a toilet, for installation on board a vessel, which is designed to receive, retain, treat, or discharge sewage, and any process to treat such sewage. Marine sanitation device Types I, II, and III shall be defined as provided in 33 C.F.R. part 159.

(21) "Marker" means any channel mark or other aid to navigation, information or regulatory mark, isolated danger mark, safe water mark, special mark, inland waters obstruction mark, or mooring buoy in, on, or over the waters of the state or the shores thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, a sign, beacon, buoy, or light.

(22) "Motorboat" means any vessel equipped with machinery for propulsion, irrespective of whether the propulsion machinery is in actual operation.

(23) "Navigation rules" means the International Navigational Rules Act of 1977, 33 U.S.C. appendix following s. 1602, as amended, including the annexes thereto, for vessels on waters outside of established navigational lines of demarcation as specified in 33 C.F.R. part 80 or the Inland Navigational Rules Act of 1980, 33 U.S.C. ss. 2001 et seq., as amended, including the annexes thereto, for vessels on all waters not outside of such lines of demarcation.

(24) "Nonresident" means a citizen of the United States who has not established residence in this state and has not continuously resided in this state for 1 year and in one county for the 6 months immediately preceding the initiation of a vessel titling or registration action.

(25) "Operate" means to be in charge of or in command of or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, or to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel's navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

(26) "Owner" means a person, other than a lienholder, having the property in or title to a vessel. The term includes a person entitled to the use or possession of a vessel subject to an interest in another person, reserved or created by agreement and securing payment of performance of an obligation, but the term excludes a lessee under a lease not intended as security.

(27) "Person" means an individual, partnership, firm, corporation, association, or other entity.

(28) "Personal watercraft" means a vessel less than 16 feet in length which uses an inboard motor powering a water jet pump, as its primary source of motive power and which is designed to be operated by a person sitting, standing, or kneeling on the vessel, rather than in the conventional manner of sitting or standing inside the vessel.

(29) "Portable toilet" means a device consisting of a lid, seat, containment vessel, and support structure that is specifically designed to receive, retain, and discharge human waste and that is capable of being removed from a vessel by hand.

(30) "Prohibited activity" means such activity as will impede or disturb navigation or creates a safety hazard on waterways of this state.

(31) "Racing shell," "rowing scull," or "racing kayak" means a manually propelled vessel which is recognized by national or international racing associations for use in competitive racing and in which all occupants, with the exception of a coxswain, if one is provided, row, scull, or paddle and which is not designed to carry and does not carry any equipment not solely for competitive racing.

(32) "Recreational vessel" means any vessel:

(a) Manufactured and used primarily for noncommercial purposes; or

(b) Leased, rented, or chartered to a person for the person's noncommercial use.

(33) "Registration" means a state operating license on a vessel which is issued with an identifying number, an annual certificate of registration, and a decal designating the year for which a registration fee is paid.

(34) "Resident" means a citizen of the United States who has established residence in this state and has continuously resided in this state for 1 year and in one county for the 6 months immediately preceding the initiation of a vessel titling or registration action.

(35) "Sailboat" means any vessel whose sole source of propulsion is the wind.

(36) "Unclaimed vessel" means any undocumented vessel, including its machinery, rigging, and accessories, which is in the physical possession of any marina, garage, or repair shop for repairs, improvements, or other work with the knowledge of the vessel owner and for which the costs of such services have been unpaid for a period in excess of 90 days from the date written notice of the completed work is given by the marina, garage, or repair shop to the vessel owner.

(37) "Vessel" is synonymous with boat as referenced in s. 1(b), Art. VII of the State Constitution and includes every description of watercraft, barge, and air boat, other than a seaplane on the water, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(38) "Waters of this state" means any navigable waters of the United States within the territorial limits of this state, and the marginal sea adjacent to this state and the high seas when navigated as a part of a journey or ride to or from the shore of this state, and all the inland lakes, rivers, and canals under the jurisdiction of this state.
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2006, 12:27 PM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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Once again some federal law may be different, but I put a lot of time into this to register my homemade boat because I did not want any FELONY charges. If anyone has any government posted statutes that say different please post. I may even engrave my assigned HIN in case someone stops me and does not know the above law.
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Old 06-17-2006, 02:51 PM
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SheetWise SheetWise is offline
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Quote:
No person shall operate on the waters of this state a vessel the construction of which began after October 31, 1972, for which the department has issued a certificate of title or which is required by law to be registered, unless the vessel displays the assigned hull identification number affixed by the manufacturer as required by the United States Coast Guard or by the department for a homemade vessel or other vessel for which a hull identification number is not required by the United States Coast Guard.
I'll grant you that this is a very difficult sentence to parse -- but when I read it, it says you need an HIN.

Assuming the vessel was built after 1972, it reads ...

No person shall operate on the waters of this state a vessel the construction of which began after October 31, 1972, for which the department has issued a certificate of title or which is required by law to be registered (= Do not operate vessel)

Do not operate vessel unless the vessel displays the assigned hull identification number affixed by the manufacturer as required by the United States Coast Guard (= without HIN as per USCG)

Do not operate vessel without HIN as per USCG or [as required] by the department for a homemade vessel or other vessel for which a hull identification number is not required by the United States Coast Guard. (= or HIN as required by us)

In conclusion ...

Do not operate vessel without HIN as per USCG or HIN as required by us.
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Old 06-17-2006, 05:07 PM
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Lawyers.... loads of fun. Especially the American variety.

Anyway, Canadian law says all boats from 1972 on get a HIN. And the capacity plate is required for homebuilts as well, up here. But the process is ridiculously easy- take a few dozen measurements of the hull and write them on the form, then mail the form with some photos and a cheque for about $10 to the authorities (it was CCG when I built mine, but CCG and TC like to switch jobs a lot...). Then you get a letter from them saying you can use the boat; then a couple months later they send a Single Vessel Plate with HIN and capacity ratings, that you stick on the boat.
Like I said, this is Canada; I don't know about the US, but you definitely need a HIN here.
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Old 06-17-2006, 05:45 PM
Thin water Thin water is offline
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Actual case law (Judges rulings) will need to be consulted to see how they ruled on the subject. Their opinion is the only one that matters. We only have one license to use West Law where I work and I will get on that computer next week and check it out.

Since the state (FL) gives you a HIN anyway when you register your homebuilt (it is printed out on the registration) it would be simple enough to affix it to your boat.

I have been checking on this for several hours. I still can't find a FL law requiring the HIN to be posted on a homebuilt but I found one for almost every other state. I am going to post mine by making a label with one of those 3d plastic label makers, gelcoating a place on the hull and placing it in the wet gel. When the label is peeled off the gel the HIN should look like a factory job. Better to be safe. I still don't know why they put all the exemptions in for a home built HIN if you need the HIN posted.
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Old 06-17-2006, 08:15 PM
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Ike Ike is offline
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Thin water: I spent twenty years administering this law. I assure you, you are reading it wrong. However as we used to say at CGHQ, if you can read the regs and correctly understand them, You're Hired! LOL

All vessels made after 1972 have to have an HIN. Hulls made before don't under the Fed Regs, BUT, all the states assign them anyway. If you want the final word on this call or e-mail Rick Gipe at USCG HQ Office of Boating Safety rgipe@comdt.uscg.mil or 202-267-0985. In any case a boat with an HIN must have the HIN permanently affixed to upper right corner of the transom unless the boat doesn't have a transom, like a canoe or boat with a round stern, then it has to be as far aft on the right (starboard) side as possible.
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