Closed end rivets

[danilo]

Hi guys,

I am wondering how good the closed end rivets are to re-rivet a aluminum boat.
Does anyone have any experience with this ?
I'm gathering info because i wanna re-rivet a aluminum boat.
Do they form a water tight construction ? What is the expected lifespan compared to the original rivets ?

Thanks

[gonzo]

What is a closed end rivet?

[Paul Anthony]

A closed end, blind, pop rivet. I would recommend a high strength version for sheet aluminum or any soft, thin material. I worked at Fastenal for several years

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by gonzo

What is a closed end rivet?

something like this http://www.yilianmaoding.com/productinfo.asp?id=82 I think Danilo needs the Alu mandril type

[Mr Efficiency]

Originally Posted by waikikin

something like this http://www.yilianmaoding.com/productinfo.asp?id=82 I think Danilo needs the Alu mandril type

The steel mandrel type would have to be excluded for sure. Need to talk to a manufacturer to find out about what alloys ( or pure aluminium) are available best suited to the job. I have never seen a rivetted aluminium boat with pop rivets, whether that is just a cosmetic thing, I don't know. The tolerances for diameter and roundness of the hole would be pretty tight to stay watertight, I think. Sounds like a tough job.

[waikikin]

12 easy steps............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPfPryTRcY4

[Mr Efficiency]

Originally Posted by waikikin

12 easy steps............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPfPryTRcY4

Hmmm...I dunno. That video was pretty damned unimpressive, no close ups at all. Riveted aluminium boats went out with valve radios in Australia, everything from the mid 60's on was welded, below waterline anyhow. I suspect pop rivets need something stronger than alloy mandrels to pull them up nice and tight. OK for temporary repairs, maybe, with pop rivets, but if there was a pop rivet system that worked for boats long term we'd have seen it on production boats where rivets are still in fashion, like north America.

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

Hmmm...I dunno. That video was pretty damned unimpressive, no close ups at all. Riveted aluminium boats went out with valve radios in Australia, everything from the mid 60's on was welded, below waterline anyhow. I suspect pop rivets need something stronger than alloy mandrels to pull them up nice and tight. OK for temporary repairs, maybe, with pop rivets, but if there was a pop rivet system that worked for boats long term we'd have seen it on production boats where rivets are still in fashion, like north America.

I agree... , solid rivets are superior, a fresh pop rivet has to be better than a dead solid rivet, the vid is pretty light weight I thought too- maybe I missed a winky face there. Welded/stretch formed & pressed panel boats seem to be a pretty well evolved production technique, an old Mates Dad was part founder of Quintrex & had an interest until the 70s, there's plenty of veteran welded "Fishabouts" still serving their owners well. All the best from Jeff.

[danilo]

Thanks guys
guess i have to talk to the manufacturer to find out more
about the application of closed end rivets.
Still,if there is someone out here with experience with c.e. rivets
please let me know.

[gonzo]

I've used them for repairs on light boats, like canoes. I don't think they are adequate for the whole re-rivet job. It is not that difficult to peen rivets with a hammer and a backing iron, just time consuming.

[danilo]

Thanks gonzo,
I think i'm gonna go for the solid rivets after all.
Like you say you get a better job just add a little more time.

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by danilo

Thanks gonzo,
I think i'm gonna go for the solid rivets after all.
Like you say you get a better job just add a little more time.

You may be able to make some simple tooling for a cheap small air hammer- with the inlet pressure regulated carefully to speed the process up.

[gonzo]

When you get the hang to peening rivets, it goes pretty fast. It will be the same as copper rivets in a wooden boat.

[ancient kayaker]

I’m not sure I would want to fill a boat with water just to see if it leaks; that puts a considerable strain on the hull especially if its fastenings are already suspect. Much easier to take a wax crayon out next time I use it and mark the leaks on the inside . . .

Shouldn’t backing washers be used on soft materials like Al?

[gonzo]

Rivets should have an adequate size head.