Building a boat in Eastern Europe.

[edik]

I fairly regularly hear of boats that were built in Eastern Europe - Poland, Czheck Republic, the Ukraine. I also saw several very nice Alu boats from over there. I would like to hear from folks at the forum about their own experiences, if any, with having a boat built in EE or any rumor intelligence (RUMINT) they may want to share. One thing for sure - the prices that are being quoted by some of the yards - especially in the Ukraine -are extremely low. Are they for real?

[daiquiri]

For curiosity - what are the prices of these boats?
I can tell you from direct experience that there are a number of excellent boatbuilders in Croatia, for example. They have nothing to envy to much more hyped italian yards. We own a Piculjan Rab 830 and it is a really good boat: http://www.piculjan.hr/piculjanEN.htm

[edik]

Originally Posted by edik

I fairly regularly hear of boats that were built in Eastern Europe - Poland, Czheck Republic, the Ukraine. I also saw several very nice Alu boats from over there. I would like to hear from folks at the forum about their own experiences, if any, with having a boat built in EE or any rumor intelligence (RUMINT) they may want to share. One thing for sure - the prices that are being quoted by some of the yards - especially in the Ukraine -are extremely low. Are they for real?

Check out Shaposhnikov boats, for example - EUR 127000 for a 49" cruiser? I know wages are very low over there, but to my eyes this looks a little too optimistic as building materials cost them the same, or nearly so. What would be a normal breakdown of labor/material costs? Where's the catch?

[edik]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

For curiosity - what are the prices of these boats?
I can tell you from direct experience that there are a number of excellent boatbuilders in Croatia, for example. They have nothing to envy to much more hyped italian yards. We own a Piculjan Rab 830 and it is a really good boat: http://www.piculjan.hr/piculjanEN.htm

Check out Shaposhnikov boats, for example - EUR 127000 for a 49" cruiser? I know wages are very low over there, but to my eyes this looks a little too optimistic as building materials cost them the same, or nearly so. What would be a normal breakdown of labor/material costs? Where's the catch?

[daiquiri]

I don't see any real boats there, just drawings. http://www.boatquest.com/Pavel-Shapo...urerboats.aspx ; http://www.boatshop24.com/it/motosca...l-shaposhnikov
I can make you a pretty drawing for much less, say - half that price (negotiable to some extent - colored pencils are expensive), if you're interested.

[micspoko]

I am from Poland. The materials used in the construction of units are the same as all over Europe. Mostly mateirały to build units are purchased from reputable manufacturers worldwide. In eastern Europe are much lower labor costs and that's the catch. If company does not employ designers are usually working with a designer who takes for project less money than in the west and of course the lower costs of maintaining the yard. And the quality is comparable with other Western countries

http://www.stoczniafram.pl/

[daiquiri]

The only thing that costs less is the labor, all the rest is equal (if the materials used are of good quality). As about designer's fee, it is probably somewhat lower but I doubt that it has such a big impact on the price of a production boat.
Too bad Richard is not with us anymore (in the forum, I mean ), he would probably have so much to say on this issue out of his first-hand experience.

[edik]

Originally Posted by micspoko

I am from Poland. The materials used in the construction of units are the same as all over Europe. Mostly mateirały to build units are purchased from reputable manufacturers worldwide. In eastern Europe are much lower labor costs and that's the catch. If company does not employ designers are usually working with a designer who takes for project less money than in the west and of course the lower costs of maintaining the yard. And the quality is comparable with other Western countries

http://www.stoczniafram.pl/

I can imagine that Alu/steel boats would be of particular interest - material costs are more predictable and labor costs are low. I looked up Garcia Boats - a French company that builds high quality Alu sailboats. They are currently offering a complete 50 foot hull and deck, all welding done, for EUR 185000. That's a lot of money. I mean, how much of that is the Alu/labor costs and how much is the profit for the company?

[micspoko]

Originally Posted by edik

I can imagine that Alu/steel boats would be of particular interest - material costs are more predictable and labor costs are low. I looked up Garcia Boats - a French company that builds high quality Alu sailboats. They are currently offering a complete 50 foot hull and deck, all welding done, for EUR 185000. That's a lot of money. I mean, how much of that is the Alu/labor costs and how much is the profit for the company?

Probably will never know - the secret of the company
But the difference in labor costs is high.
Example for the same work in the Netherlands 12.5 euro/h in Poland 5 euros/h

[Herman]

12.5 euro is a very low price in NL.

I have had a couple of boats built in Romania, at a yard owned by a Dutch guy, from an Italian father and Dutch mother. His father was garden designer in the north of Holland.

At the time he had a yard in Turnu Severin, but I believe he moved to Orsova now.

Anyhow, this was not a success, to say at the least. The guy stole plans, moulds, materials, and hardly delivered. (mostly off-spec)

I now see many ventures in Poland, some of which can be called a success, some a total failure. I guess it is the same all over. I can only recommend good, experienced supervision, to get a one-off that really is worth the effort. (counts for any country)

[edik]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

The only thing that costs less is the labor, all the rest is equal (if the materials used are of good quality). As about designer's fee, it is probably somewhat lower but I doubt that it has such a big impact on the price of a production boat.
Too bad Richard is not with us anymore (in the forum, I mean ), he would probably have so much to say on this issue out of his first-hand experience.

Designer fees for stock plans even from very reputable designers, such as Van de Stad, are very reasonable, EUR 2000-5500, depending on the size. So this factor can't affect the constaction costs too much.