BOAT design / manufactoring in CHINA

[Wellydeckhand]

Yesterday I got ripped by a RRC guy with the red passport selling me jade ring..... for 400 US$ . I took the bait as the lovable thing is wonderfully synthesis made......... the gold shop verdict me as an *******....... so life goes on for me that like chinese goods but cant prevent my own demise.....

I am not bitching but say......... look careful before u buy...... who know u get the treasure of long lost era.....................

[longliner45]

caveat emptor ,in all worlds

[botenoutlet]

apoligize accepted

Originally Posted by longliner45

I was going to pm botenoutlet and apoligize. but I figure I said it online ,so Ill apoligize online . the chinies people are hard workers, they have morals I wish we had. I think its thier govt, I dont like .but I dont care much for mine either ,No nation is perfect but if a man wants to work ,,,,,,,let him ,I think someday China will be a free nation! you cant hold them down much longer!I know this is not a political site but please let this slid ,,,this one time, longliner

[Wellydeckhand]

Need rigid rescue boat and crew boat....... the type rubber boat with plastic or aluminium hulls......run on gas-electric motor, do China make it? Any agent in Indonesia? Gonna need alot in near future pls advice thanks.......

Wellydeckhand

[Sander Rave]

RIB's? Stern or outboard? Wat's your gas/electric thing about? What size, crew of how many heads?

[Wellydeckhand]

technically I know it rubber parameter and below plastic hull or aluminium. Crew boat would fit 5- 14 people. machine would be outboard. would be able in river and near shore logistic.

We also need boat built for low river and swamp travel......... same passenger.

Thanks

[corsair.p]

http://www.xmfeipeng.com

you got to see this.

[myastral]

I spend allot of time at a few of the yards in China and the results have been a mix of good, ok, fair, and oh **** but for the most part if You stay on top of it You can get a fair deal but I think Taiwan does a beeter job all and all

[Scott Carter]

I concur with James. As a boatyard manager in Thailand, albeit a tsunami relief project, I have seen time and time again the shortcuts that the builders here will take if given the chance. It's very easy to see this same sort of workmanship in many other aspects of the culture (home construction, roads, vehicle repairs, you name it). This is a pervasive aspect of the Thai culture, but it would not at all surprise me to learn that it was similar in other areas of Southeast Asia. It's my belief that a boatyard without a Western manager, onsite, scrutinizing every aspect of a boat's construction will NOT turn out what we Americans/Canadians/Europeans/NZ'ers/Autralians/etc. would consider a quality boat. A botyard WITH a foreign onsite manager still has a very tough job in instilling this quality work ethic in their workers, just ask any one of them. They will likely be proud of the work they turn out, and rightfully so, because if it IS high quality then it came at the expense of either a loong time spent training and educating the builders to Western standards, or copious oversight time spent by the managment of the yard, or both.
I've now been in Southeast Asia for nearly two years, and I think I may be getting in touch with the root reason for this apparent lack of appreciation for quality workmanship. It's my opinion that it has a great deal to do with the view of impermanence on this earth in their spiritual eyes. I know this sounds a bit airy fairy, but the need to have something last a long long time in this culture is not great. Disposable everything applies, even boats and other handmade things that could last a long time but simply aren't due to not using quality materials, etc. Builders at my yard who are helping me build my schooner were bragging that they thought this great boat would last 25 years!!! They were shocked to learn that I was looking for a 100 year boat.
It was mentioned by someone else in this thread that Asians work really hard, and they do, no doubt about it. But the problem is that I see them often working harder, not smarter. They put great physical labor in where using a little headwork could save this effort AND produce a higher quality product. I'll quit blabbing about all of this, except to say that economic differences in our cultures often affect our decisions as to what we "need" to use in terms of materials and workmanship. The Asian history of low income wage earners has kept most of them near the bottom of the global and local economic ladders for a long time, and this has seeped into every generation's perceived need to produce high quality items. It has not affected their ability, though, which would be an asier job to improve on if that were the limiting factor. Their abilities are no different than yours or mine, but the appreciation for using them to produce high quality products is virtually nonexistent.
This message is filled with many generalizations about a vast number of different social and ethnic groups, so there are invariably going to be exceptions, but keep in mind that they ARE exceptions, not the norm.
My opinion, for whatever it's worth.

[boatsource]

I recently met with the owner of a Chinese shipyard and one of the topics we discussed was quality. It may be different in the recreation industry but he explained to me one of the factors in quality was Government. The shipyards were owned by the government and they would do whatever they could to save a penny.

He also explained that the market in China demands low price items. The price is the major factor, not quality materials or craftsmanship. There are some similarities with the North American society. For example, I have seen government have little concern about quality with the major difference being they are more concerned about paying a high price.

The fact of the matter is 'quality' is subjective. In my lifetime I have seen a drastic change in my society regarding pride in work, craftmanship, quality and honesty. The best possible price is becomming more and more the deciding factor. I don't think it's any better having someone being paid $25+ an hour and lazing about complaining they are worth more. Nor is it any better to get screwed over by the guy down the street than say someone half way across the world.

So far I would say it is not easy to find people, anywhere in the world, who are willing to go the extra mile or to sacrifice when its needed to do the best job and do what is best for their associate. There is way too much money and 'me me me' mentality now adays.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by Scott Carter

It's my belief that a boatyard without a Western manager, onsite, scrutinizing every aspect of a boat's construction will NOT turn out what we Americans/Canadians/Europeans/NZ'ers/Autralians/etc. would consider a quality boat.

Wrong approach, or the perfect recipe for a bleeding ulcer, or suicide, whichever comes first

Originally Posted by Scott Carter

I have seen time and time again the shortcuts that the builders here will take if given the chance. It's very easy to see this same sort of workmanship in many other aspects of the culture (home construction, roads, vehicle repairs, you name it). This is a pervasive aspect of the Thai culture, but it would not at all surprise me to learn that it was similar in other areas of Southeast Asia.

Very True Scott, and it is the same in most other Asian countries. Which is also why it mainly is the western inverstors fault when he decides to build high-tech in a country where he can take advantage of low salaries. Anyone see a mis-match?

Supervise the supervisors - that's the key to success in Asian countries. You need a yard foreman (foremen) who already appreciates quality, it won't meet western standards but it is a necessary start (because it is difficult to change personalities...), then you work on him to bring him up to the western level of appreciation for quality. When you have his mind on your side, then he will (with plenty of support) work to bring up the quality of the workmanship of the yard. He can do this, with only 2 years in Thailand, you can not. Which is why the approach you mentioned is wrong

These are not easy to find, the foreman must first of all be a very good craftsman, if the workers don't respect his craftmanship, then he won't succeed - respect is very important in Asia, then he must also possess "what we really want"

If you don't have a foreman for your schooner project, then appoint one - asians need leadership. It won't cost you more than a few thousand bath per month extra.

Originally Posted by Scott Carter

Their abilities are no different than yours or mine, but the appreciation for using them to produce high quality products is virtually nonexistent.

Very True, thanks! That sentence alone shows that you understand Thais better than 99% of the other farangs

Originally Posted by Scott Carter

...the need to have something last a long long time in this culture is not great

It is boring

You have put in a lot of thinking and have an open mind, I wish you all the luck with your schooner

Mikey

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by longliner45

Its almost criminal to encourage anyone to buy from china .........slave labor. high quotas,, beatings for poor attendance or performance, child labor ,,,ext,,,extera,you are not doing these guys a favor forbuying from them they reap no benifits

That was a very ignorant post, clearly showing your lack of knowledge of China... but you are forgiven because you will learn from your mistake

Mikey

[lazeyjack]

No Mikey you are wrong and Longliner is right, trickle down does not work

Originally Posted by longliner45

Its almost criminal to encourage anyone to buy from china .........slave labor. high quotas,, beatings for poor attendance or performance, child labor ,,,ext,,,extera,you are not doing these guys a favor forbuying from them they reap no benifits

Asian slaves take a brake after an hard workday ...
Seem to be less TV scoops slaves than longliner....

[rocknrule]

My education is in the marine industry but I've been manufacturing (electronics, metal, and injection molding) in Asia for nearly 20 years. Much of the time in China but more in Malaysia and Singapore. There are a great many problems in China that will grow. The biggest is the labor turnover, now running at about 13 months. One company offers your labor a small raise or bigger bowl of rice and they move on after you've invested time and money in their training.

Boatbuilding in south Malaysia (Johor in particular) is about as good as you can get - ask the people at Grand Banks.

I think Thailand would be a good place for smaller boats and sailboats but not large motor yachts. Taiwan is still good but getting expensive.