BOAT design / manufactoring in CHINA

[Thunderhead19]

I used to work for a north american yard that had no quality systems in place, no standardized training programmes, and they hired desperate people for minimum wage to do miserable jobs by hand.

I think you could run a company anywhere with a very good quality product if the quality systems were in place, training was appropriate and the work was de-skilled (assembly line work as opposed to craft work). Any company that can do that should be easily able to put their money where their mouth is. I have seen the quiality of yachts coming out of China improve greatly in only the last few years, but as was mentioned, the prices went up too. I don't know if that means that the things I mentioned are being implemented (the cheap thing to do), or if they've resorted to throwing money at the problem, like the yard I used to work at. I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...

[kany_leo]

i agree with that even i am a chinese myself, but i really concern that good quality and well-trained will change what u think of

[Mikey]

It will most likely help if the on-site manager is western but I don't think that he necessarily has to be that, that depends more on the management goals. Different tradition => different perspective and priorities, different view => different eye for detail and other things but a Chinese company with a serious intention to compete long-term with American and European yards will realise the differences and what is needed. Surveying moving manufacturing to Asia is a project that should have quite a substantial budget allocated. There are many boat yards out there. Which of them are seriously long-term committed???

To be honest...
I would prefer management to be western and I would spend most of the surveying time on companies who has it, but I would include a few with Asian management. And I would include Thailand

Pathetic Quality?
Yes, possible. Quality can vary from pathetic to very good. Pathetic is a strong word, but the range that can be found starts somewhere there. The range is also getting smaller every year. Among the best wood work I have ever seen was in a sailing boat Made in Thailand.

Thunderhead, well written, I think that you are spot on, don’t think that China put all the money where the mouth is by far (hence prices up more than was needed), but they are working on it and they will learn and improve faster than we westerners really want them to. I think that the whole boat building business is moving slowly toward assembly line style, Asia will probably take most of that one day and American and European yards will take the high end where boasting with that it takes 9,000 hours to finish off the boat after the hull and deck is finished is a good sales argument.

Opinions Please

[ducaes]

hi there..

just join the forum last month..why not look at Malaysia,i know there isn't much info on malaysia on boatbuilding but we do see ourself as oneof the front runner in the FRP composite boatbuilder in Malaysia..we build composite frp powerboat using vacuum bagging system,currently toying around with resin infusion..we have built range of boatfrom size 42ft upto 72ft, from luxury cruiser,sportfisher to patrolboats..we export our boat to US,Japan,Maldives as well as for local usage..currently we're building no.9 hull of Mikelson Yachts Inc. 61ft Pilothouse Sportfisher..do checkout our website at www.fadarayachts.com

Fadara Yacht Sdn Bhd
Port Klang, Malaysia
Tel:+603-31679502
Fax:+603-31679504
Email:fadara@po.jaring.my

[genuineyachts]

Hi, Guys,

Kany, you can visit www.chineseboating.com.cn for the latest information of boating in China and I bet you could learn lots of first-hand information from those who have been in the industry for years instead of second-hand information.

I agree quality is a problem of some Chinese yards here but just like there are bad guys and good guys in every corner of the world, we have shipyards with bad quality and shipyards with very high quality in China as well as other countries. I personally know every yacht builder which are building top quality boats for exportation and as far as I know most of those quality boat builders here are very busy with the 2005 even 2006 order book full.

However there are some commercial boat builders which will also claim that they are also qualified to build boats to be called Yachts but that is not true. It is definitely not that they want to cheat somebody and the reason lies in the education level, understaning of yacht building, grasp of international boat building standards applied, the culture difference and busiess philosophy. It will take some of them quite a long time to conquer the learning curve and be on the right track.

Do not take me wrong and I think every country is equal to the other and we do not want to grab all the opportunities to China. We could not make it and we do not want it. We just want to promote the yacht building here in China and also respect our colleagues in other countries for their rights to do the same thing.

Anyway my point here is that try to see things in different ways because every coin has two sides.

Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

[kany_leo]

yo james,
i definitely won't take you wrong because you r so understandable as u r running a business in china. some people say something beccause they don't know about china's situation. actually some of the asian international students do really give them a bad impression. for instance, new zealanders think we just want to get a citizenship quick by studying boatbuilding, i mean some of them, and that's true in some reason, but i am into it really myself, that's why i am the only chinese in the class studying bachelor of marine tech, conversly, all most 80% chinese in the certificate course. anyway i really appreciate u gave me the info, especially the concept of yacht that u said. i look forward to going to look aroung your yard one day. just keep in touch.
cheers
kan

[jameshogan]

Genuine Marine can you please post contact information (phone email web site) for high quality chinese yards? So far I am able to find one. And they are very busy and very expensive. Thanks

[genuineyachts]

Dear Jamesshagon,

Kindly drop me an email at: sales@genuinemarine.com and I will see how I could help with your inquiry.

Yours truly
James Georgechen
Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

[Brazil Builder]

The advantages of building in Brazil include a government program allowing for OEM duty free importation of quality marine products from overseas for boatbuilders exporting their final product, a large pool of talented craftspersons, competitive salaries (100-300 dollars a month), low cost of living, vast array of fine products such as hardwoods, resins, composites, fibreglass, materials and much more produced right here in this wonderful country of over 200 million people. The climate in the Northeast is excellent for yacht construction - and properties as well as land are inexpensive.

Brazil recently put a rocket into space, they build jets that compete with Boeing and Airbus, refine uranium and are now making moves towards joining the G8 - this is not the Third World.

Access to the market from the bulge of Brazil is approximately ten days to Trinidad in the Caribbean and 2.5 weeks to Miami, Florida - the heart of the global boating industry.

Brazil's an excellent place to build for the reasons mentioned above. I can't figure out why everyone is running to China to build when one can do the same thing in the Americas for as good or better pricing.

Message me for more information

[kany_leo]

you can not ignore China's development and market, probably that's the reason, but surely Brasil is an wonderful place to get the business done regarding to what you have written above

[zerogara]

The minimum wage for a week's worth (50-70hours) of work is $12 US.
Many places do not even pay this much but it hasn't been much of an issue yet as worker supply is high for less than $12.
You can bet if a trainned machinist would work for that much that a hand lay-up trainnee will not be worth as much.
The FRP boat building industry is very labor intensive as compared to other manufacturing, vacuum baging or not.
So, I'd suspect that if prices are comparable for boats built with labor cost 40-60 times higher that someone is trying to become a millionaire overnight.
On the other hand the "world" has a demand for low priced lower quality sturdy work/fishing boats. So the low quality heavy lay-up boats have a market indeed. But definetely not at comparable prices.

Quality will improve if that is the way of destroying the competition and the competition is not fair as long as Chinese and other S.E. Asian workers are paid so low.
Taiwan is an other story of itself, they started 40 years ago from where China is now and their quality has rocketed to some of the best built boats in the world. Eventually Taiwan will become part of China I think and their knowhow and the mainland's labor supply will dominate boat manufacturing worldwide.

[John James]

Dear Sir,

How did you go about getting your boats from China?

Very interested to know how it turned out.

Best Regards

[Delphine]

You probably have all heard about the coming China Boat Show and I really think that most of the answers you're looking for can be found at the Shanghai Exhibition Center (opposite the ritz Carlton) from April 6th to April 9th, 2006.

At the show, you will find:

* Over 300 exhibitors, 25, 000 sqm of exhibiting space and an equipment and services sections covering 8,000 sqm.

*A dedicated section with an increasing number of local shipyards

*The leading international yachting brands

* 2 halls reserved for the Chinese and regional marinas

* A new lifestyle section, etc.

Feel free to send me an email for any further question you might have regarding the show.

Best regards,

Delphine (delphine@ayeltd.cn)

[yipster]

thanks, dont know if i can make it to shanghai in april but keep me updated

[Wellydeckhand]

Anybody know of steamship engine made from China? Or Steamship builder in China's webpage?