MAST by ANT

[sorenfdk]

Hi!

I downloaded the two MASTstruct programs from www.sailboat-technology.com, and now I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with them - are they any good?
They say they're based on the ABS Rules - what rules might that be?

[Guillermo]

I haven't tried those MAST programs, so I cannot be of help on that. ABS means American Bureau of Shipping, if I understood your question.

[Windvang]

As far as I know there are no ABS scantlings for masts.

[D'ARTOIS]

Not only that, but ABS has no ruling for yachts under 20 mtrs and specifically not for any sailing yacht under that length.

[sorenfdk]

Exactly what I thought - ABS has never published any rules regarding masts, so what do the people behind these programs mean?
I've played with them (the programs, not the people ;) ) a little, and they seem to produce reasonable results...

BTW: You can still get the Guide for Building and Classing Offshore Racing Yachts from ABS.

[safewalrus]

They say they are BASED on the ABS rules! :cool: Come on! The ice in your martini is "based on the Titanic rules" OK it's ice, it sinks and it faintly refers (see where I'm coming from? probably not!):cool:

It's a sales ploy to make the poor unsuspecting novice with little knowledge believe in whats being 'sold' is better than it is :p - it would appear to work!:rolleyes:

[sorenfdk]

It's a sales ploy to make the poor unsuspecting novice with little knowledge believe in whats being 'sold' is better than it is :p - it would appear to work!:rolleyes:
Except for the fact that it is freeware...

[Willallison]

I downloaded it - there's nothing to be gained from ANT by me doing so. I'd agree with Soren....

Why not email them and ask about the ABS bit - their contact details are here http://www.cfd-fea.com/

Incidentally, great link to the sailboat technology page Soren - have you checked out any of the the other downloads there?

[sorenfdk]

Incidentally, great link to the sailboat technology page Soren - have you checked out any of the the other downloads there?
Only Profili 2, which BTW isn't free, but cheap and great!

Here's another great link: www.bodrum-bodrum.com/vorteks/arsenal. The name of the page is Virtual Marine Arsenal and it's another great collection of links.

These two and of course boatdesign.net are my absolute favourite yacht design homepages.

[Willallison]

looks like another great site - thanks!:)

[osiris]

Sorry to correct but there is a section about mast design. Problem for most of us is it is for extremly large vessels

Take care,

[safewalrus]

Still think I am right - maybe not this one but sometime in the future, also of course what are they getting for the transmission of this 'freeware'? Sorry gents but there ain't such a thing as 'free freeware!' or a free lunch even!

[Willallison]

Do I detect a note of cynicism there safe?;) Actually, I'm often amazed at just how much IS available in terms of software etc for free. Ok - so maybe many of the people offering this stuff do so in the hope that you'll come back some day and pay for something else they have - but what's wrong with that?

[BillyDoc]

Hey Walrus, there really are good guys in the world you know. Lots of people like to program, and really hate the way companies like Micro$haft rip you off with rapacious prices and constant "bugs" to try and pursuade you to "upgrade." The members of the open-source community are a good example and do a hell of a job because they feel that they are doing something for society as a whole . . . and they most certainly are!

You should check out one of the many flavors of Linux, for example. Or the browser I am using as I write this, Firefox. Or my email client, Thunderbird. Firefox is probably the best browser in the world, and Thunderbird is damn nice as well. All are free to anyone who wants them, and not only that the source code is also available so that if you find a bug, well maybe you can fix it too and everyone benefits. There are, in fact, thousands of open source programs that you can download and use. Some are excellent, some are horrible . . . just like commercial software. Have you looked at FreeShip recently?

In my opinion, the open source community is one of the best things to happen to humanity in general in modern times . . . because at its foundation it is simply a bunch of people trying hard to do their bit and make a better world. Something we see too little of.

So relax and enjoy it! The guys and gals making these wonderful programs get a "kick" our of the fact you can use their work in much the same way you would feel damn good if you had just rescued someone at sea.

Bill

[D'ARTOIS]

Billy I am using Firefox combined with Google, Open Office instead of Word/Office, Pegasus instead of Outlook, my colleague buys software (clean ones, no illegal copies) in Russia and that is much cheaper.

[Willallison]

we're drifting somewhat off topic here ... but do you guys know anywhere that you can register a domain name for free?

[safewalrus]

Maybe I'm just a cantankerous old bastard (well the wife is nodding her head in the background so someone agrees with me for a change!) but I still subscribe to the "there's no such thing as a free lunch" theory. OK, I'm a grouch and I'll go with you guys but I still feel that the pay stuff is in a diferant league to the freebies ........sorrrrrry :)

[BillyDoc]

Aw, come on Walrus, we know you're a pussycat at heart!

And it isn't a free lunch. It's a situation where both parties gain! How many times have you helped someone here on this forum for free, just because you are obviously (sorry to say this out loud Walrus, but you really ought to face the nasty fact) a nice guy. YOU felt good being helpful, and the person you helped got the "free lunch." A win-win situation for sure, and a very big part of what being human is really about. The sociopaths out there trying to rip off everyone really don't know what they are missing. Personally, I think they are incomplete humans and to be pitied

Bill

[Nels Tomlinson]

... I still subscribe to the "there's no such thing as a free lunch" theory.
The reason that you can get decent free software is this:

If you write a program which does something useful, you can:

1) keep it to yourself. There is no gain or loss to this option.
2) give it away to anyone who will take it. This option has no downside, since it doesn't preclude option 3, and at least a small chance of some upside.
3) try to sell it. This requires risking capital with littel chance of success.

Experience (other's, not mine) shows that option 2 might get you some free programming help from folks who like your work well enough to use it, and program well enough to fix bugs and add features and some non-programming users who will field-test your work.

If you are careful about copyright issues, there is no reason that you can't also sell a version of your program, once the free version has drummed up some demand.

Experience (other's, not mine) shows that option 1 gets you no where free and option 3 is very likely to get you no where at great cost.

... OK, I'm a grouch and I'll go with you guys but I still feel that the pay stuff is in a diferant league to the freebies ........sorrrrrry :)
Oh, everyone agrees with you on that. It's absolutely in a different league. In many areas, for many purposes, the libre stuff is head and shoulders above the pay stuff. The only areas where the pay stuff is unambiguously better than the libre for all uses are areas where there is no mature libre product.

Apache, R (the statistical programming language) the BSD and Linux operating systems, the LaTeX typesetting system, Openoffice and perhaps someday Freeship are examples of mature or nearly so packages which can far outshine the commercial equivalents for many users.

That doesn't mean that there is any libre package which will be optimal for you, of course, but many folks would rather do without computers than go back to that buggy, overpriced, under-featured commercial crap.

Nels

[safewalrus]

Look fella's I like being a grouchy old git, so you enjoy your freeware (guess yor probably right) and I'll sit in the corner mumbling - OK

[Nels Tomlinson]

Look fella's I like being a grouchy old git, so you enjoy your freeware (guess yor probably right) and I'll sit in the corner mumbling - OK

Gee, Safewalrus, I sure hope I didn't spoil your fun. I like to have a good grumble myself sometimes. I just wanted to point out to folks that even though ``no free lunch'' is as true as ever, programs are different than hamburgers, and the no free lunch principle applies a little differently there.

By the way, I'm not critical of folks who don't use the libre programs: they definitely aren't right for everyone.

Nels

[BillyDoc]

Look fella's I like being a grouchy old git,

Damn, Walrus, I guess I owe you an apology!

So, OK, you’re NOT a nice guy. Just a grumpy old git (whatever that is). I’m so sorry to have offended you.


Bill

[safewalrus]

Gee thanks Bill, so glad you see it my way :) - trouble is it gives me nothing to grumble about!

I'm sure some poor unsuspecting sucker will come along soon!!!:D

[BillyDoc]

We've got PLENTY to grumble about!

And you're right, there's one born every minute.

Bill

[safewalrus]

You don't say, time I took me a vacation to the sun I think!

"I don't suffer from insanity - I'm enjoying every minute of it!"

[sorenfdk]

Just to get back on track...

I mailed the people at A.N.T. and a very kind person there mailed me back and told me, that the two Mastruct programs are not based on ABS rules, but on the method described in Larsson & Eliasson: "Principles of Yacht Design". This method is taken from the "Nordic Boat Standard".

[Willallison]

Good job Soren!
(safewalrus...and I bet they didn't even send him a bill!;) :p )

[sorenfdk]

Nope - no bills yet :)