titanium cut thread wood screws??

[luke bronco]

Dose anybody know if titanium would be a good material for boat building it would be expensive but its really light really strong and EXTREAMLY corrosions resistant but if any knows better please let me know if theres any thoughs out there on this thanks Luke

[cyclops]

If it is made, the corporate race boats are already using it.

[yipster]

oil rigs use titanium, dont know if screws are around but was reading http://www.kastenmarine.com/metalboats.htm on metals

[luke bronco]

Im asking about the titainum wood screw cause i can manufacture cut thread wood screw im kinda wondering if anybody out there would want them i curruntly make the silicon bronze and stainless ones at www.oemfasteners.net if any ones want a quote or anything feel free
thanks for the replys
Luke

[cyclops]

Luke . Since you are a Company, maybe someone on this site can give you a phone # that would get you into the various Corporate Racing camps and start the Titanium line for everyone. How about it guys?

[cyclops]

Slow brain.------ Use the personal E Mail route to keep the corporate # from being "shelled" forever.

[D'ARTOIS]

I have made profound investigations of what the use of titanium could significantly mean in the boatbuilding industry.

The first plan for entire build boats out of Titanium came to me through an old industrial spy from the ex USSR who gave me some drawings, asking me if it was possible to draw/design a substantial motoryacht in this material.

coming back to the topic: lot's of boatbuilding material is made out of titanium, mostly small stuff I can mention a whole list but it is mainly deck hardware.

The corrosionresistance is no issue: take the right alloy and there is no more corrosion resistant metal commercially available than titanium.

There was a time that titanium was as expensive as stainless steel. I could at that time get it for about DM 17,50 per Kg. That is around US$ 9 ,-- per kg.

The main problem will be now finding and getting the right supplier. Now the USA have boosted up so much their war machinery, lots of this stuff goes for the reinforcement of armor pieces in aircraft, combat vehicles and other applications.
There are still some large stocks in the USSR, who had he largest production of titanium spread over a few enormous plants. However, everybody is now aware of the value of titanium, and there is a high demand, for a number of material-related reasons,
Main producers of titanium now are Russia and China.

There could be a demand for titanium nuts and bolts, rivets (if you have the machinery to make them) because titanium is an inert material, resistant against almost anything and therefore it is so much used in the biomedical scene. There, in that traject will be absolutely an interest for this kind of product as you make.

There are a few other aspects related to titanium, the electrolytic polishing, the diamond coating and several other gimmicks you can do with that so precious metal.

It requires a different kind of technology, the most of it concentrated in the aeronautical and space industry, although there are countless other applications - from dentist- to tankproduction.

So if you have specific queries, I am (almost) certain that I may give you a reply.

[DanishBagger]

I found a couple of places that supposedly make ti-screws, or can make them, sells ti, or otherwise

http://www.unitedtitanium.com/screws/

Here's a place that sells titanium in powder form?

http://www.baotou.com/pro/pro.htm

And this link is injection of ti into molds:

http://www.titaniuminfogroup.co.uk/home.asp?ID=87

And, finally, a place where you can get it in sheets, ingots and whatnots.

http://www.timet.com/productsframe.html

Personally, I really like titanium, I have owned bikes that were made from it, a computer (that unfortunately was 99.9% pure sheet, causing it to flex too much), Ti cooking equipment, Ti-burners, and ti-belt buckles. I really, really like that material. Once my small boat is built, I will use titanium shackles etc. where I cannot do without shackles at all. I recently thought of having the keelbands made from it. But as that would be far too expensive I was thinking that I might go for just the screws, if they're made.

Also, precourt.ca is making their deadeyes etc. from aluminium, I'd love them to make them from ti instead.

All this, of course, has nothing to do with weight, but everything to do with corrosion resistance and the structure/feel of titanium. It's nice to touch, imo, it doesn't feel as "impersonal" as steel.

Maybe it's just me, though ...

Andre

[luke bronco]

I can make the Ti screws if your intrested give me a call or email me at www.oemfasteners.net the trouble is the material, i can get the wire to make the screws but it runs like 35$ a pound plus shipping etc. and usually has a min of 50lbs But ,, if you want it .. we can do it just dam expensive but your right whats better then Ti.. as strong as alloy steel light as alum. and has aswome corrision resistance you know its the best !!

[DanishBagger]

yikes! 50lbs! That's way too much - I'm about to build a 16ft bagger. Maybe if a whole lot of us got together?

How thick thread would you need? I'm thinking we could both keep a look-out?

[DanishBagger]

Ah, I forgot, which type of Ti would be the best, if you were to make screws from it?

[yokebutt]

Where do I find carbon reinforced PEEK fasteners?

Yoke.

[DanishBagger]

Where do I find carbon reinforced PEEK fasteners?

Yoke.

:D

Yes, now that is a good idea!

;)

[Wellydeckhand]

mmmm.....:p...... titanium....pure or alloy?

[DanishBagger]

Not pure, too soft, imo.

[Wellydeckhand]

Not pure, too soft, imo.

mmm....... titanium alloy with aluminium? what grade? Just curious...... not yet available in my area......:p

[DanishBagger]

With alu? What do you mean?

I was thinking of a ti-alloy in wood, instead of pure ti, simply because I have had a really bad experience with pure ti being too soft, although that wasn't with screws, but with a computer, sheeted with that stuff.

[antonfourie]

I think that you would struggle to find pure Ti round bar to make screws out of most Ti is alloyed to provide specific characteristics for the use it was intended for. Even still the strength of Ti is good for its weight. One thing to be carefull of is that if you make screws out of the wrong grade you might be in a worse situation that using 316 Stainless. Here is a link to some basic info

http://www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/titanium/titanium.cfm

[antonfourie]

And another link

http://www.stainless-steel-world.net/titanium/alloys.asp

[Wellydeckhand]

Mmmmm.......... Thanks for the thread.

Mean Ti have good rigid properties and not good with stress on bending? It enforce in metal turn it stronger and lighter........ beside it rare and lux image and anti radiation as a shield...... do we really use this metal neccesary?:)

Mmmm......... cause it is too rare in our part of the world and not sure its hidden properties. Thanks

Wellydeckhand:)

[DanishBagger]

Mmmmm.......... Thanks for the thread.

Mean Ti have good rigid properties and not good with stress on bending? It enforce in metal turn it stronger and lighter........ beside it rare and lux image and anti radiation as a shield...... do we really use this metal neccesary?:)

Mmmm......... cause it is too rare in our part of the world and not sure its hidden properties. Thanks

Wellydeckhand:)

Hell yeah, we need that metal, Welly!! We need it as much as we need leather, wood, carbon fibre, and bronze!

It's a shame I can't remove the ti-screws in my foot :(


Seriously, though, Welly, titanium's "hidden" properties is that it's a very good metal, and is used in many different applications, because it's inert.

It's not rare as such, and it's not that new either, it has been tested and tested and tested, so you don't have to worry there. If I understand you correctly, you're asking if it might have adverse effects on aluminium if it's in contact with it, right? It doesn't. Simple as that. It doesn't have any effects on steel either, at least not on surgical steel - that I know.

Further, it's lightweight, and have a cool texture and colour, in my opinion - so much so that I bought my gf a titanium ring the day before yesterday. She liked it :D

About its luxury image - So was aluminium back in the days, even glass fibre and plastics had that image one time or another.

About stress on bending. Of course it depends on the ti-alloy, but most used alloys are very good in bending. It has a great shape-"memory". Of course, if it's pure it bends too easily, imo (see my earlier post about the computer).

I don't think you have to worry about anti-radiation, when we're talking about screws ;)

Titanium is not a gimmick. It's a very cool metal - hell, if I could afford it, any metal on my soon-to-be-boat would be titanium. The reasons: Uncorrosive, weight, strength, colour, texture (in that order).

Andre

Edit:

Back on topic: You should buy into this, that way we'd only need a few more to make this doable :D

Next, we will be trying bolts and nuts. Seriously, if I had an old boat, with a bolted-on keel, I'd surely sleep soundly at night had it been bolted on with titanium keel-bolts. But then again, that will never be a trend, considering people are fine with having ss-bolts down there :(

[luke bronco]

Titanium Bolts and nuts are avalible on the internet all over the place. the costs are still high because almost all the titanium fasteners you will fine are machined or cut. this means people are useing screw machines or cnc lathes to physically cut the material down starting with a parts largest diameter. The screws that are even stronger are whats called formed or cold headed or ever hot headed. headed is the term used for the forming process of a fastener. cold heading adds a great deal to the tensile strength of a material do to the process called work harding or strain harding. a good example of this is copper tubeing if you bend it back and forth a few times you see how hard it gets. if we are talking about cut thread wood screws, the process i would use to make them would be cold formed blanks. these would look just like the screw you need but with no threads. you get the benifit of the work harding. the the threads are cut onto the shank leaving the nice thick threads and a taperd tapperd???? (spelling) thread depth, getting shallower toward the head. this makes for a wedgeing and self sealing action in the wood. as for normal bolts or screws like machine screw the threads are rolled on or formed with no material cutting or loss leading to even more work harding. in a machine screw thread this is good because the core diameter of the screw is still large. where as roll thread wood screw move the material much more, beacuse of the thread depth. also the root of the thread is the same diameter up the shank. this can lead to a weak point do to a small diameter and extreamly work harded section at the thread right under the head or the shoulder if not fully thread. this is why roll thread wood screws while cheaper in high quanties is not a good choice for wood boats. so basicly if you fastening wood planks and hulls decking cut thread is best. and for machine screws, soocket cap screws, hex heads roll formed is best. so if you buying titanium you be paying a bit so dont be affraid to ask how there made are the threads cut and the heads machined?? what you find in most cases. which leaves you with a reallly sweet looking bolt lets say a hex cap screw like you get at the hardware store hmm 1/2-13 by 3" say looks great but if its machined not formed you look at something only equivelent to like a grade 2 steel fastener. you know those cheap steel ones with no lines on the head. 3 - grade five 6 = grade 8 none is grade two. just for refrence you can break one with a normal 3/4 wrench. you know when it tight but it just keeps turning. ewww hate that feeling. you also get that with stainless bolts that arent made correctly. not enough tensile in the material. its a art cant be too high can be too low has to be just right. but on stainlesses behalf .. both 316s.s. and 302s.s. there are two kinds ones called active and ones called passive. stainless that have been passivated is nearly as corrisions resistant as titanium. the process leave a very (passive) outer layer on the stainless plus its very bright and looks nice. dont know what im going on about but maybe i helped someone email me (luke) at oemfasteners.net also i put up some videos of cut thread wood screws being cut as well as a cold header in action. im going to add more videos soon hope to hear more ideas from everyone.

[DanishBagger]

Yes, I can get bolts and nuts for bikes, motorcycles, cars, fomula one boats and so forth, but can you honestly say that it's easy to find woodscrews out there?

About the bolts, keelbolts specifically, those are very long, and they'd propably have to be custom-made.

on another note - although interesting, I can't help but wonder why you give us a lecture of different types of screws, when all were doing is talking about the material. Of course we want our ti-screws tapered (;)), and done to "best practice", Luke.

Well, sorry, I realize that you're a manufacturer, I'm just a bit puzzled.

[luke bronco]

me too i dont know why i just felt like typeing

[Wellydeckhand]

ti purchased over internet is ok n cool? wont be fake? or lower in grade? where is the cheapest place buy and yet not get hit?:)

Still think not goinin be a trend in asia beside bicycle......... which I have but then again.... it is a off the rack bicycle. Not like decorating your boat like a christmas tree with Expensive Ti bolt n screws.:)

Thanks

[DanishBagger]

It's okay, Luke, I just thought it was a bit weird. But then again, it takes a manic person to know one, right ;)

Welly, the golden rule is even more important on the net. Be critical of your sources. If you want to be sure not to be taken, you need to do some research. Look the companies up in their business network, ask around, to see where other people buy from, use common sense, and so forth. Phone them/mail them - with regards to the chinese, you cannot use the "rule" "if they can't spell, they aren't pros" (not that you could use that rule anyways).

About your boat and ti-bolts etc. Noone is going to know it's ti, unless they really are in the know. And very few people are.

If I knew where the cheapest place was, Luke would propably be turning out screws right now.

[Wellydeckhand]

Thanks:)........... Dont worry I dont think China is anywhere near using Ti-bolt for their vessel.......:) ............and sell them I think...........:)

So where the cheapest u recomment? Do they sell by the Kgs or pcs?

Or ya........... NZ kiwi guy sell Ti wed ring........ only if the design is more attractive........:):):).......

[DanishBagger]

Many jewellers makes ti-rings (wedding rings etc.) - I just bought a ring for my gf here in Denmark (no, not a wedding ring or engagement one, but nonetheless).

Apparently, noone makes selfthreading ti-screws for wood. That is the reason for this thread. But bolts aren't that seldom, as Luke pointed out. And if we were to get Luke to cut woodscrews for us, we would need to get hold of titanium thread in the right diameter.

If you want shackles etc, more than one company sells them, but quite a few get theirs from Bosun supplies www.bosunsupplies.com/ProductTitanium.cfm

I'm thinking of buying their tang straps, especially for the bow fitting for the bobstay.

The cheapest that I recommend? I'm really not in a position to recommend many places, Welly - I don't build boats on a regular basis ;)
However, it kind of depends exactly what you want. If you know that it is easier to go looking for it (i.e. size, number, alloy, etc).

What I am saying is that we can't apparently get wood-screws by the piece. we need to buy several kgs of thread, and then have Luke make them. Bolts and nuts are available per piece around the net.

Another reason why I would be very hesitant to actually recommend anyone is that I'm in the eu, so the cheapest for me might not be the cheapest for you, and vice versa.

[DanishBagger]

Oh, I forgot: About china - quite a lot of titanium comes from China, that was the reason I mentioned china. I'm almost willing to bet that Bosun Supplies have theirs made in China as well.

You can get custom hardwarefrom Suncor Stainless (I don't know if they have officially changed to Suncor Marine yet):

http://www.suncormarine.com/titaniumhardware.php

[Wellydeckhand]

Thanks for the info....:D

[luke bronco]

russia is another huge source for Ti at least if you looking for the raw material.. as for the post well i have alot of hands expeirance with working with metals all types. its not that the material is junk from anywhere its more how its worked thats all my point was really ....i think. what do i know i just make stuff right .... dam those engineering classes if they only taught spelling id be somewhere ,

[DanishBagger]

Yup, and I will be contacting you about screws shortly. See if we can work something out. But that is for another thread, another time.

Andre

Edit: Err, "shortly" meaning anywhere from four weeks to a couple of months.