What's better Sail Or Power

[Adz]

Hi all just a quick question what's the best to go for?

1. Trimaran

2. Power cabin cruiser

Im not sure which would be better. I no that the power boat would use fuel and cost alot to run and the way thing's are going regarding the fuel price is a bit worrying.

Either of the boats would be used for coastal cruising and for trip's offshore/Island hoping.

Any suggestion's would be gratefully received

Best regards

Adam

[RThompson]

Mmm, well, you tell me:
Whats best, a long peice of string or a hose?

Quick question - quick answer. :)

Are you comparing a sailing tri with a power mono?

In any case there is no easy answer to your question.
Or one might say "The answer is, without doubt a sailing trimaran. But what is the question?"
:D

On the other hand that's a huge can of worms up for discussion...

Rob

[marshmat]

a HUGE can of worms. Can't really compare sail vs. power side by side. You sort of need to figure that out before you go boathunting.

[Skippy]

Which bothers you more: the noise, expense, and range limitation of a motor? or the hassle and slowness of sailing?

[Adz]

Thats why i thought i would ask

Sailing Trimaran has range and speed depending on class. But what size of Tri would be best?

It's got to travel 180 nautical mile's over the northsea and up past the faroes which is a rough place to be and gets rougher the further north northwest you go.

[gonzo]

What can you afford? What accomodations do you need? I sail boats with no electric systems and very basic setups. However, most people seem to want the same stuff they have at home.

[RThompson]

Cruising the North Sea probably require's a tough boat, sail or power.

If you haven't yet get some sea time/cruising time on the style of vessel's you are considering. Yacht clubs etc will be only to willing to help that happen. Visit a broker and go out for a demo on some boats, see what you like.

In the mean time think about why you want a boat.

There's hundred of questions to ask, here's a few:

What kind of cruising: camping or 5 star luxury; marina to marina, or anchorages?
How many on board for how long?
How long will you cruise without re-supply?
Do you like time at sea or time exploring?
What berthage is available to you?
What's your budget to buy?
What's your monthly budget to own?

The next time you find yourself with some cash in your pocket _donate_ it to the nearest shop/person/rubbish bin. If you feel fine after that then you are over the first hurdle (that is, test your ability to hemorrhage cash -without grief...) :p

Rob

[Adz]

Was thinking about building it myself.

There in lies the problem which designer's should i look at regarding plans? any links?

I would think the tri would have to be in the region of 60ft with the ability to be single handed most of the time.

Probably need space for upto 6 adult's-incl self.

At sea for various duration's.

[Adz]

RS Thompson

What kind of trimaran's are used over your way?

And what size are they?

Are any of them used for crossing from Australia to Tas or Newzealand?

Thanks Adam

[Ssor]

Adz, The best and worst thing about trimarans is that they are very stable, either side up. I would not consider sailing in the open ocean in any boat that was not self righting.

[tspeer]

And I'd not consider sailing in the open ocean with any boat that can sink. What a tired old exchange - but I guess it has to be brought up every time someone mentions multihulls to those with no experience in them.

Instead of trimaran vs power cruiser, I'd consider a catamaran. It'd combine many of the virtues of both. Once you get above, say, 35 - 40 ft, a catamaran has more interior space than a trimaran. It heels less and with adequate bridgedeck clearance may well be the most comfortable of the three alternatives in rough conditions.

[tspeer]

The best material I've found on multihull seaworthiness are the model tests Barry Deakin did at the Wolfson Unit on the capsize of catamarans (http://www.rina.org.uk/rfiles/IJSCT/Discuss/deakin.pdf) (also presented in 2001 at the Chesapeake Sailing Yacht Symposium), and the outstanding article by John Shuttleworth on multihull seaworthiness (http://www.john-shuttleworth.com/Articles/NESTalk.html) (also a chapter in Adlard Coles' book, "Heavy Weather Sailing"). I believe Steve Dashew also talks about multihull seaworthiness, as well as monohulls, in his excellent books.

[Adz]

Been looking into catamaran's Sorry really dont like them.

Have decided i want a trimaran. Still unsure as to what size of try is best to go for.

Best regards adz

[D'ARTOIS]

You have already made up your mind: so asking what's best - a powered mono or a sail multi - an odd comparison - is a discutable question.
You are talking about one of the nasty's pieces of water our good Lord has invented. The tri, as well as the cat are unsuitable for cruising the northern waters. Not that they can't. They definately can. But the kind of waves building op the northern Scottish coast - in bad weaher - are particular unkind to the multi design. To say it nicely. I have an alternative suggestion: design a sub!

[RThompson]

Still unsure as to what size of try is best to go for.



As big as you can afford. You mentioned a 60' trimaran, by the time you reach that size you have excluded yourself from most smaller marina's and anchorages - so you might as well take full advantage of that sacrifice. For the same accomodations/weight the bigger boat will probably go faster which helps when you are dodging nasty weather.


A side note re. multi seaworthiness (or Australian stupidity): a couple of years ago an Australian racing cat named XS went to Antartica two handed. It was between 30 - 35 feet long. Skipper was the designer Robin Chamberlain.
Quite similiar to a Tony Grainger "Raider" (lots of Grainger designs floating around the place)

http://www.graingerdesigns.com.au/racing/raider.htm

Jeff Schionning's designs are popular as well, but I don't know if he "does" tri's:
http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

Rob

[Karsten]

Hi Adz!
Sorry but it sounds like you don't have that much sailing experience and you want to sail in one of the worst places on earth in a home built boat? That sounds like disaster is about to strike. I would go to the local sailing club and ask a few people to take you out. Doesn't really matter what type of boat. Just get some miles up. It wouldn't be the first time that somebody dreamed about boating, build a boat in the backyard, forgot to learn how to sail/navigate and sunk the boat on the maiden voyage.

Good luck,
Karsten

[Adz]

I think a sub would be a great idea. LOL

Rs thompson thanks for the reply and the links

Adam

[Mark 42]

...But what size of Tri would be best?
460 ft LOA with jacuzzi, tennis court & helipad.

[marshmat]

460 ft LOA with jacuzzi, tennis court & helipad. You just want to outdo Paul Allen.....lol

btw, helipads are SO 1990.... the helicopter simply MUST be lowered into its wood-panelled hangar on hydraulics now. And docking submarines are now mandatory on yachts over 300', as are twin satellite domes and at least five tenders. And jacuzzis are on a per-stateroom basis.

[Bergalia]

Thought I might add my ten cents worth as an ex-trawler skipper who spent 25 years fishing the Arctic circle in an Aberdeen built boat 'Eilean Eishdale' timber hull, 100 years old, 800 tonnes. And never once saw a multihulled craft in those seas.
Go for timber, single hulled - and if you get ship wrecked on the Skerries you can always use it for firewood until a friendly 'yottie' happens by.
Multi-hulled - Pah, Humbug....
:mad:

[Mark 42]

Multi-hulled - Pah, Humbug....
:mad:
"Every idiot who goes about with 'trimaran' on his lips should
be keel hauled beneath a proper yacht and impaled upon his
own mast to serve as a warning to others. Multihull. HUMBUG (http://www.amergin.net/cc11.html)!"

[Adz]

Think you need to calm down. Mark . each to there own

[marshmat]

Nothing against multihulls... I kind of like them for a lot of things. Wouldn't take one into ice, of course; that's a job for a great big single lump of something sturdy. But the fuel efficiency... oh, the fuel efficiency, and the speed.... and the look-at-that-gorgeous-modern-yacht factor when you're dockside....

[SuperPiper]

If multi-hulls were superior to to mono-hulls, would aircraft carriers and supertankers not be cats and tris? The really, really, really big money seems to be on the mono-hulls.

[marshmat]

With really big stuff like that, though, you can get 10:1 length-beam ratio on a single hull, and still have good lateral stability. Try that kind of slenderness in a smaller hull, an 80-footer for instance, and you get something so thin it rolls over and capsizes. The big advantage of a multihull is the ability to get very long, slender hulls- length:beam ratio on the order of 10:1 or 15:1 or more, and thus very low resistance and high speed-length ratio; while keeping lateral stability. On larger craft this is not that advantageous as big ships can already get this kind of slenderness in a monohull. Also the need to fit into ports, canals etc, and the cost of building the thing, come into play. Mono wins on all these counts. But for smaller craft the multihull can give serious efficiency and speed advantages as well as better stability than monos.

[safewalrus]

Simple question - were you going to park it? Aberdeen being a big ship commercial port other than the odd passerby on the 'linkspan' No Chance! up the river Dee small boat is about all, with the rest of 'em forget multihulls. Stonehaven Drying harbour - only choice that way is Dundee! Going the other way (the bible belt) is fishermen only until you get to Fort William. So laddie either move or forget it or buy a fifie!

[Bergalia]

Nah...buy or build a Zulu...more stylish.
Or if you choose power - can I suggest the Corrievrechan

[Mark 42]

Think you need to calm down. Mark . each to there ownClick the word Humbug in the post above... it'll give reference
to why I (mis)quoted the phrase.

I actually like multihulls... I sailed a Corsair F-27 trimaran to
work for three weeks when the ferry system was down.
I can only afford one boat at a time, and I grew up sailing multihulls
& prefer a boat that heels (multis feel unnatural to me), so I own
multihulls, but I would own a multi if the right deal came along.

[safewalrus]

Bergalia - I'll give you that one you old Sea Dog you; For class go for a zulu - but that tends to be more west coast, as you'll remember east coast is boring fifies and all staid God fearing bretheren, with the good enough for me da good enough for me, young loons didna ken fit they're blitheren about style of boating. OK fine safe (?) sailing but certainly NOTclass!

[Bergalia]

Well shave me uxters, SafeWalrus. Fit like, man. Ah didnae ken ye were an Aberdeen loon. So I'll gie ye this - I've worked fifies - and zulus, in my youth. Poetry the both. Pure poetry whose like we'll not see again.

[safewalrus]

Bergalia, fit like? The Only things I sailed out of Aberdeen were those big multicoloured beasties, supply boats, still they kept the town going for some time! (especially the red and cream ones with the mammary gland on the chimney if you ken the ones I mean!

[Alan.M]

Thought I might add my ten cents worth as an ex-trawler skipper who spent 25 years fishing the Arctic circle in an Aberdeen built boat 'Eilean Eishdale' timber hull, 100 years old, 800 tonnes. And never once saw a multihulled craft in those seas.
Go for timber, single hulled - and if you get ship wrecked on the Skerries you can always use it for firewood until a friendly 'yottie' happens by.
Multi-hulled - Pah, Humbug....
:mad:

You may never have seen a multihull out there, but that doesnt mean they arent there.
I've seen lots of trawlers, but i dont think any of them has seen me!

[Bergalia]

Well yes, Alan - in fact I did see a couple of multi-hulled vessels 'out there.'
The 'Levkov' and 'Chenska' big Russian factory ships. Big enough for half a dozen of we working trawlers (mine was 800 tonnes) to dock inside (between the twin hulls) to unload our catch.
As for you suggestion that you've seen many trawlers - but doubt any saw you. Sounds like you only mix with sloppy skippers.
Bet your sea-going boots you were spotted (and ignored). Survival in those waters depends on constant (60 minutes per hour - 24 hours per day) all round watch. Not just for passing yotties - but ice, freak waves, and snooping subs. I lost several friends whose nets got fouled by both NATO and Eastern Bloc subs - and because of the then phoney Cold War 'secrecy' were towed to destruction. :mad:

[floridasailor]

hay if your going on a trip like that and dont know how to sail forget it get the power boat sailing is not an easy thing to do well and you need a crew that knows what its doing for something like that

[floridasailor]

take the power boat that is not a trip to take if you dont know how to sail its not as easy as it looks to do it well