10M Thai Long Tail

[S.E.A.]

Dear All

Recently I posted some images in the gallery of a 10M Long Tail project that is currently going on in Thailand. Due to the emails I have been receiving asking for more information please find below the information on the project.

The 10M Long Tail was a design innitiative set up and put into action to cater to the needs of the Thai Fishermen who lost their boats during the recent Tsunami. The project has been a collaboration of the following marine professionals who took it upon themselves to design and build a Long Tail in FRP to try and stem the ever decreasing timber stocks in Thailand due to the current rebuilding of the fishing fleet, which some estimates have at 5,000, using traditional methods.

Umberto Petricich of 3DW Moulds in Italy who put together the design package. (upetricich@yahoo.it)

Bunchong Kunuchit of Star Marine Engineering Co. Ltd in Bangkok whose shipayrd and resources are being used. (bunchong@starmarineeng.com)

S.F. Wong of Fadara Yacht Sdn Bhd the project manager for the materials, molds/ tooling and first hull fabrication. (fysb@streamyx.com)

Now With The Design, Mould Building And Preparation Work All Completed They Expect To Be Able To Build At Least 3 New 10M Long Tail Boats A Week Utilising The Existing Mold Set Up. Once More Molds Are In Place They Can Then Cater To Increased Demands Accordingly.

Anyone Interested In Finding Out More On This Long Tail Project Or How They Can Be Of Assistance With Funding Or Mould Set Up For Their Own Boat Yards Can Contact Either Of These Gentlemen Who Will Gladly Provide The Relevant Information And Help.

[Mikey]

I am glad to see that the design has not been changed much, good since I find that the Thai longtails actually are pretty decent sea goers. I have been out in violent rain storms with very heavy wind and rather upset seas and the long tails handles that with ease.

To all involved in this project, a big Thank You for helping out (and for not changing what does not need to :) ).

It would be very interesting to hear if seaworthiness of these new boats are as good as the old wooden ones.

[S.E.A.]

Hi Mikey

Thanks for the comments, have passed them on to the respective parties involved in the projetc. They have advised that they will keep us updated with the upcoming first two launching ceremonies and give a sea trial report.

[tom kane]

It would be interesting to know if they will be fitted with the traditional long tail motors,which is how they got the name I believe.I have been trying to get more of the history of the longtailed boats which I believe originated from France about 1900.The were the first racing outboard motors offered to the public.

[Mikey]

Oupps, very good question Tom. I took that for granted but maybe I was wrong.

No, don't think so, although they are surprisingly heavy to manouver, I still don't think that the Thai fishermen would want to change that.

S.E.A., please let us know the answer to this :)

[Alik]

Thai longtail use car engines, also their props have very low efficiency due to high RPM. Also I mind that engine location is very high, that decreases the stability for smaller boats. Thai marine society is conservative, but their boats have many things that can be improved.

[brian eiland]

Thai longtail use car engines, also their props have very low efficiency due to high RPM.

Don't some of them use those small air cooled industrial diesel engines by the Japanese? I've forgotten the name of them.

[tom kane]

Long tailed boat propulsion is not as basic as it may seem,there are some very interesting aspects about the positioning and design.They are in fact the for-runners of some modern surface propulsion systems(guess which one) The design is of course changed to suit different hulls and hydralic systems make using the easier.If any one would like to give me any information or good close up images I would appreciate that.I have started a thread (no response yet) Long tailed boats and history.

[Mikey]

Most longtail boats in Thailand use Yanmar diesels, I think Yanmar refer to them as horisontal diesel engines. Similar models are also used a lot on farms all around Thailand. Don't know how to describe them, square with huge exposed fly wheel something... The one in the pic is not exactly the right one, closest I could find (looks too modern...)

The longtails using car engines are quite a lot bigger and are mainly used around Bangkok (in the canals as part of Bangkok's public transport system and as water taxis), big rivers like Mekong and Chaophaya. These are not used as fishing boats.

I was expecting the high placement of the engine to affect stability but I could not feel that was a problem, maybe it is because the longtail fishing boats are actually pretty heavy. I would not make the new FRP's lighter that the wooden ones though, that would probably affect sea worthiness and sea kindliness.

Mikey

[Alik]

I am not much familiar with fishing longtail boats, mostly with tourist ones as we deal with pleasure craft. One more point for longtails is that trust is applied too high, that requires carefull operation when turning. I'll try to upload some pictures of longtails to my gallery...

[Mikey]

Good pic of the bigger longtail boats using car engines Alik.

It was surprisingly difficult to find good pics of the fishing boat longtail. Here is a brand new one built after the tsunami. As we can see, they are quite different from the "car engine ones", looks more sea worthy and less flashy.

Mikey

[Mikey]

And here is a close up of a very authentic engine. Complete without muffler.. :)

[Mikey]

OK, and here is one photo where the bow can be clearly seen.

All of you, what is your opinion? Do you think that they are pretty sea worthy or not???

Mikey

[Alik]

This is good boat, but not matching today's regulations :) Also, these boats are over use of materials (have You seen how they cut these pieces of wood?), so use of FRP seems great improvement. I only not sure, if it is reasonable to copy the wooden craft lines and proportion, can propose safer and more effective fishing craft. But I understand, Thai are conservative... :)

[brian eiland]

Most longtail boats in Thailand use Yanmar diesels, I think Yanmar refer to them as horisontal diesel engines. Similar models are also used a lot on farms all around Thailand. Don't know how to describe them, square with huge exposed fly wheel something... The one in the pic is not exactly the right one, closest I could find (looks too modern...)Mikey

That's the engine I had in mind, the horizontal diesel, just couldn't remember the exact manufacturer. I don't think we ever see that equivalent engine here in the USA.

[brian eiland]

Here's a couple of photos I found.

Looking for them brought back memories of Thailand. I like this country, its food, and its very gracious people. I was just over there last Aug picking up a scale model of my 65 cat design.

I need to return soon and idle down my frustrations with this Bush administration. Helping the Thai people recover from the Tsunami should be a lot more rewarding than trying to effect this wayward administration and congress (I live in Washington DC at the moment)

[Mikey]

I don't, like the Thais :D , care about regulations too much IF the end result is good and it benefits the community. But you are of course correct that some enhancements probably could be made.

But I would be very cautious, remember what happened to the very sea worthy fishing boats working the north Atlantic? Despite being bigger than the older ones, they became less sea worthy. Not to mention what this forum mainly is about and Fastnet 79. I would not make the FRP longtail boats lighter than their wooden equivalent :!: That would increase accelerations and make the boat more difficult to work from, sea kindliness, the forgotten aspect :)

I have not seen any longtails being made, but I have seen the bigger "real" fishing boats. All that sawing and matching of the planks, very time consuming, very manual and requires a lot of skill. Yes, to add some efficiency to this process would not be a bad idea...

I think it is a very good idea indeed to use FRP, it is also cheap if it is locally produced. Would be cheaper too, wouldn't it? What is the price for locally produced, say 24 oz woven roving or 2415 stitch mat?

Mikey

[tom kane]

Many thanks to all for interesting images and information,I hope there is more where that came from.I am very interested in propulsion system in relation to where the propeller is run for efficiency.The pressure waves formed by the hull would give the props something to push against.May vidios I have seen show them moving very fast.I have some images showing big V8 powered craft.

[Mikey]

Tom,
The V8 powered craft you have seen are surely from Vietnam. Saigon (Ho Che Minh) still has them, remnants from the Vietnam war I suppose. Thailand does not have them.

They are extremely fast! 30+ knots easily for some of them.

The high placement of the engine is not really a problem for the Thai fishing boat longtails, at least I did not feel it was, but that would mainly be because the enormously heavy flywheel that the horisontal diesels have. Snappy is not the word...

The engine is truly multi-purpose. The same engine can be the on the "tractor like" vehicle Thais use for the rice fields, and it is also used to drive water pumps, and why not on the "tractor like again" vehicle that they use to drive to the rice fields on. "Tractor like...", well I don't know how to describe them. I will try to find some pics.

I have seen Toyota 4 cylinder car engines being used on the "car engine longtails", I don't know for sure but think that this is the most common engine used on them. Since they have much more power and react much faster to the throttle, I can surely believe a soft hand would be good if you don't want to swim.

Mikey

[S.E.A.]

Hi Everyone

Sorry for not following the posts as much as I could but just spent the last week in Phuket looking for suitable shipyards etc and seeing whats going on to help the Fishermen.

The build specs of the 10M LongTail are printed below but still waiting for final details of the first one built as well as sea trial report etc

Length : 10.00 metres
Beam : 2.15 metres
Depth : 0.80 metres
Draught : 0.20 metres
Engine : 10 HP Air Cool. OR
50 HP Water Cool
Propeller : 2 Blade Fixed
Light ship : 1 ton
Displacement : 2 tons ( full load )

As soon as I have some more info Ill post here.

[Alik]

Are these LOA and BMAX or LWL and BWL? I try to generate stability curve for that boat, so maximum GZ tends to be only 0.25...0.30m. Also, downflooding angle is somewhat 30 deg. Am I right?

[S.E.A.]

Hi Alik

As mentioned before I am just a conduit for the information but where can will reply to your questions. Have passed on your questions/ thoughts to the designer and will reply soonest. In the meantime have just been informed that sea trials are commencing on the first completed 10M LongTail so I will update shortly with results and pictures

[Alik]

Thanks, S.E.A.
I am seriousely concerned about their stability/safety.

[S.E.A.]

Pictures taken of the Long Tail Test in Bangkok

[S.E.A.]

50hp Engine (water cooled) being mounted, checked before trails

[Alik]

Looks nice!
This open boat requires emergency flotation elements, because now it is FRP, not wood.

[tom kane]

Printed great images thanks,love that propulsion,it must make some engineers crazy.

[tom kane]

Perhaps the propulsion shown in images would be a good inovation.Many ways of building and installing.Low maintenance cheap to build.Not a lot different to the present set up.Motor does not pivot,just the shaft.A pivoting drive allows shallow water operation and kicks up if obstruction struck.Can have a shroud around prop.Many advantages.

[Frosty]

Normally used is the ubiquoutous Yanmar TS 70. Or 80 90- single diesel They were primarily for agricultral instalations. These engine at 7 -8-9hp are expected to--and do--- run alone unattended for days in irrigation systems. They are stripped of un-neccessries and bolted to a frame when used as a long tail engine. The reduction gear at a guess is at least 3-1 more like 4. They have a funnel arrangment just aft of the prop that picks up water and pushes it through the block and over the side. Thats it. The liner and piston is 800 Baht as I bought one once,--42 baht to the us dollar. The liner is pushed home with the cylinder head and stock bolts, the crank has ball bearings on outers and can be removed from the side. The big end shell for the con rod can be replaced through a plate at the rear without even draining the oil. These engines can be overhauled in the forest in about 2 hours. Parts are very un-believably cheap.

[tom kane]

We have one long tail boat in Zew Zealand,not sure which area it`s from.I have always been interested.The image shows another attempt at propulsion,I do not know where they were mainly used.

[Frosty]

I like that!!!! the more the prop pushed the more the belt tightens.

[S.E.A.]

This morning, the 18th August 2005 in Chalong Bay, Phuket the first two 10M GRP Long Tails were put thru their paces to the joy of the gathered crowd of French and Thai Red Cross Representatives and local media. Also in attendance were a group of local sea gypsies and fishermen who have been waiting for their new LongTails which are being built in wood. Well the consensus is in and after the sea trials it seems everyone in attendance wants one, even a tourist who happened to be at the pier...

Tomorrow will see another step in their journey when they will "hop" over to Phi Phi for further sea trials...

[Frosty]

Here in Langkawi a mere 120 miles south of Phuket or a bus ride, there are many boat makers building fibre glass long tail replacements. Langkawi is a duty free island some thing the Thai government has been suggesting for Phuket for many years. This of course means that materials and outboard motors as Yamaha, suzuki, etc can be purchased much cheaper than are available in Phuket. Yachties buy all there boating gear from here on there way up with no penalty when reaching phuket as the parts are then considerd part of the foriegn vessel. Would it not be nice if the Thai government abolished import tax on the fishermen.

[adobarrow]

Has anyone ever come across a pictorial history Long Tail boats, particularly the one's sailing around Bangkok, Thailand?:?:

[Frosty]

I always remember seeing a fantastic long tail in Bangprakong river in Chonburi. It was a taxi --I think. He had 3 or 4 customer sitting in tandom. This was a beatuifull varnished job, it appeared to be almost flat bottomed or at most a very shallow V. I was attracted first by the noise at it screemed past the marina wall, I looked up,-- this thing was moving, he saw me look at him and he smiled--- he then gave it some more gas and the already screaming engine went up a notch. A plume of water was thrown up from the surface prop. He must have been doing 50 mph hour as his customer leaned slighty forward to face the wind in thier faces. I had to laugh.

[ridgeway]

I am not much familiar with fishing longtail boats, mostly with tourist ones as we deal with pleasure craft. One more point for longtails is that trust is applied too high, that requires carefull operation when turning. I'll try to upload some pictures of longtails to my gallery...
I am very interested in the tourist type of longtail boats you have in your entry. I make radio controlled models and am at present trying to get as much info as possible in order to build a model
Have you any detailed photos / or plans for one . I hope to build one at 1:12 scale of the original. I have been on trips in them whilst on holiday but sadly do not have any detailed photos in my archives.Any help you can give would be much appreciated
Regards Alan - Forum name ridgeway

[AngloThai]

I am quite interested to buy my own longtail to use around Phuket/Lankawi.
Could be a newer Fibregrass or older wood model. Condition is not so important as I wish to refurbish and outfit the boat to my own specs.

I see a lot of them laying on beaches in un-seaworthy condition. I would not mind to have one fixed up for me. Location is unimportant could be anywhere from Rangoon to Penang.

Any leads? Prices? PM me or post here.



Here in Langkawi a mere 120 miles south of Phuket or a bus ride, there are many boat makers building fibre glass long tail replacements. Langkawi is a duty free island some thing the Thai government has been suggesting for Phuket for many years. This of course means that materials and outboard motors as Yamaha, suzuki, etc can be purchased much cheaper than are available in Phuket. Yachties buy all there boating gear from here on there way up with no penalty when reaching phuket as the parts are then considerd part of the foriegn vessel. Would it not be nice if the Thai government abolished import tax on the fishermen.

[Frosty]

Theres plenty around just take a walk down any beach and talk to one of the owners. Im sure youlle be able tio buy one.

[AngloThai]

Why didn't I think of that? ;-)

In Phuket these boatmen are used to hustle farangs (Euros), and of course they usually don't speak enough Engl. That's why I posted this inquiry here. Maybe some of those tsunami charity workers have a lead to straigtht and honest seller.

Also I doubt there are reliable documentation/registration schemes in place that guarantee ownership to the seller and buyer. Thais often don't even have written title to land holdings....

[Frosty]

Yes your right they wont have title to long tali boats. I heard of a Farang getting into a fight on PiPi for no more than owning a long tail. The Thais thought he was going to do tourist charter. They dont understand owning a boat for just pleasure.

Then go south Krabi, Trang, Kantang. Dont bother with Langkawi theres nothing here. Now Satun has plenty of longtails and the shops that sell the stuff.

As far as a title youlle have to get a lawer and burn a number into it.

[AngloThai]

... yeah I heard about that case. There are two nice farang owned long tails for sale now on Phuket at fantasy prices (>EUR 40k!), probably for the same reason.

But my plan is to get two ugly ones and make a better Wharram sailing cat out of them. Can't confuse them with the tourist boat mafia vessels then :idea: .

In Baja California Mexican panga men will harass foreign yachties for whale- watching "their" whales. In SoCal local surfers get into bloody fights with out-of-towners and tourists over the waves! Chauvinism, Fascism, Naziism!:eek: :eek:

Can't defeat human stupidity and greed. :(

[Stephen Ditmore]

Please see new thread at http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22384 for Myanmar (Burma) cyclone recovery.

[brian eiland]

As a cross reference I just posted a whole bunch of photos of longtails here:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20398&page=3

[omnitrips.com]

Hello all, M name is Bjorn Moller , my company omni marine co;ltd initiated this project with umberto from 3dwmould, and Mr bunchoong, fadara yacht
we even built 4 ambulance longtails for the finnish red cross to the island of koh phangi, in phang nag bay!

I have been working with the chaoley ( sea nomads here and also built 80, 10 m, longtials from the original traditional design from klong rua! in krabi, these where comissioned by HRH princess maha chakri surindthorn. and given to the local ficher man that lost their longtails.

If you have any QA please feel fre to contact me at
bjorn@omnitrips.com

[omnitrips.com]

Mort of the fisherman use the toyota 1500cc turbo engines with a special fresh water cooling system.
They are made to take them sometimes over 100knm and they are very trusworty work horses. they also are less noicy, the yanmar and kobota, local coast engines make alot of noice!
omnitrips.com