Glassed over Cypress

[ORION1]

We are new to the forum and are quite impressed.

We are interested in a 35' William Atkins designed cutter. 29,000#, 9200# ballast. She is glassed over Cypress since construction in 1977 by her current owner. She has spent 10 years in the Carib and South America. The hull is 1" planked Cypress and the deck is 1" marine ply. Hull is glassed outside with polyester with 26 layers of cloth. Inside the hull is covered with 14 layers of cloth. The deck is also glassed over and under.

There are two through hull fittings. One for the engine and one new one for the A/C. Current owner (original) installed the A/C one year ago and states that the core is just as it appeared when new.

The boat has been maintained well and appears solid and a survey will certainly be done prior to purchase. Any comments will be appreciated. I have been asking everyone I can find and have been given responces from, it is probably very solid to, run like hell

[PAR]

Run, don't look back. I'd question anyone who found it necessary to apply 26 layers of polyester & cloth to a heavily planked hull. The poly skin is heavier then the planking itself and will likely cause untold issues soon, if not already occurring. I'd question it, if it was cloth set in epoxy. You should select and pay the surveyor if you have your heart set on her. This way you can have some insurance of a responsible evaluation. Do not accept the seller's surveyor, you'll just be buying a "used car salesman" pitch. The first question you should ask is "why are you selling her" and the next is "why polyester & cloth sheathing" and the next "why 26 layers - what are you trying to maintain - ice breaking ability?"

Sorry to be so coy, but this Bill Atkins design is likely one of his healthy double enders, well known for their heft, wonderful motion at sea, sweet lines and inability to get over 1.25 of it's LWL's square root. It didn't need to be further burdened with all that goo and cloth.

[ORION1]

Thank you PAR. As you can probably tell I am already apprehensive. It is a shame as the boat has been well maintained and has been glassed since built. I think you are right though. She is not a double ender, but a TALLY HO MAJOR. One of my main concerns is how to sell her if I wish to do so later. Thank you again for your honesty and candid assesment.

[yokebutt]

With that much glass on it it's not a sheated wooden boat, it's a wood-cored fiberglass boat, and those are quite common.

Yoke.

[ORION1]

Thanks Yoke, I appreciate your input. Would you consider a boat such as this one. It seems solid and has new running rigging and standing rigging with norseman fittings up and down and new sails., and engine. The owner has invested much in important items. There are no frills expect A/C, Hot water with preassure.

I see that you are a builder, are you fimilar with cypress.

Earl,

[PAR]

I know of no Billy Atkins designs that would have those specs, nor of any that may have been of cored construction. The fact it was applied after construction would suggest it was addressing some issue and not the designer's intent. In the thickness put down, you have to ask, what structural issue is being dealt with, because cosmetic coating would be far thinner. Cored structures have both an inner and outer sheathing of 'glass and in fact rely on this principle for it's properties. I have the lines for Tally Ho and it shows the wonderful balanced lines he was noted for. The original lumber planking thickness was correct for this design. The plans set is still available through Atkins & Co.

[ORION1]

PAR, the "TALLY HO MAJOR" is 34.5 LOA less spirit. The glassing was performed at the time of construction not after launching. I have no idea how much the glass added to the weight or how thick it might be in total.

Going down to check her out in detail again this coming weekend. The owner says she sails fine and is not too slow. Guess there is no way for him to hide those things. I will keep you informed.

Thank you again for your input and interest. Earl

[yokebutt]

Earl,

What's the inside of the hull look like? does it have ribs and things, or is it a smooth surface?

Yoke.

[PAR]

My records show the Tally Ho (Major) the slightly larger sister to Tally Ho, is as you mentioned 34' 6" LOD, 31' LWL, 9' 10" in beam, 4' 11" draft, flying 756 sq. ft. of sail and has 10,640 pounds of ballast, about one ton of this held internally. Mr. Atkins died in 1962 and it seems unlikely he would have been dabbling in cored structures late in his career. I think cored structures were tried in the 50's, but it wasn't a common process as it is now. We were still trying to figure out what could be done with 'glass in general at the time, let alone engineering it into sandwich construction structures.

Your comment - " She is glassed over Cypress since construction in 1977 by her current owner. " - was my only contention and likely was a misunderstanding on my part, thus the hard line about hidden ills under the skin, etc. She may well be a fine yacht, though a heavily planked hull with a heavy poly sheathing will be difficult to sell.

Attached are the lines and sail plan to Tally Ho Major. You'll note the classic Atkins lines and rather fat garboard, should make a nice ride and provide plenty of stowage. With lines like these she'll have no bad habits or quirky traits at sea, solid, comfortable and well behaved.

[ORION1]

It is smooth glass on the hull sides with bulkheads just like the normal fiberglass hull, from bow to stern, whereever you can see the bare hull. I do not recall seeing any beams or ribs on the hull sides. The interior hull is finished with cherry planking for dress, which limits a visual inspection in the cabin area, except in the chain locker and the aft area under the cockpit where the engine is located.

Under the floorboards which are solid cherry planked, the hull is smooth in the bilge area on the sides and the bilge is smooth, and fair fiberglass over the ballast.

There are 1 1/2" X 2 1/2" cypress support beams, every 12 inches or so, over head, under the deck, supplementing the bulkhead support for the deck and a mast support beam with cherry post.

I am going down again this weekend and will take a very close look at everything again. The owner has the original plans from Atkins and a very thick set of specific instructions for construction, which include patterns for each board of the planking and the like.

The owner is into building and fairing hulls. Still many unanswered questions about the construction of this hull, but it seems solid after 28 years, 10 of which were heavy crusing and living aboard for he and his wife.

Thank you again for the interest and input Yoke.

Earl

[ORION1]

Thanks for the profile PAR. I am not real fimilar with the abilities of this site yet and do not know how to do attchments. Will take some photos and read up on how to post them hear.

Earl

[FAST FRED]

In the earlest days of GRP construction using cloth as structural material was the norm,
(Airomarine Bounty) as the only experience was with radar domes and wing root fairings from aircraft.And "overbuilding " was the norm.

Today with mat & roving that many layers would be suspect .

If you like the boat , haul it and pull the thru hulls.

This will answer the question as to the glass construction and the condition of the core.

If everything is fine , and the price is good , it would be worth the effort.

"Composite" construction is not hard to sell ,

after all there are hundreds of Tiawan Tubs , with almost NO structural integrity left in decks or house structure that sell just fine.

A custom offshore cruiser in fine condition only needs ONE convinced purchaser.

Go for it!!

FAST FRED