fish hold stories

[awannabe]

I have been looking for some time for a boat in the 50+ foot range, used as I am not rich. I have been looking at buy back fish boats and older tugs. The end use is as a charter vessel in the Philippines. All I want is a sound hull and machinery. My question is on a fishboat with foamed and glassed holds (until that stuff is removed what lies beneath is pure conjecture) how does the framing etc. usually hold up? I look at it as a perfect trap for rot, and it makes me leery.

[PAR]

All anyone wants is a sound hull and machinery. Working craft will usually be beat to near death, by the time a "not rich" person can afford her. Fitting out as a charter yacht will cost near as much as a new yacht, maybe more, depending on the problems and issues that creep in during the process. It's quite rare to find a 50' plus work boat or yacht for that matter that will not require a six figure income to keep her going. This isn't a cheap to own or operate size range. There are plenty of older boats, both working and yacht that can be had for pennies on the dollar, have you looked in the usual places? Have you run a yacht charter before? Having owned old fishing boats, the smell doesn't go away for many years and anything could be lurking under those holds. A good surveyor and some luck is the best insurance.

[marshmat]

What PAR said.

If you find a workboat like this for sale it's because it's too beat up and costs too much to run, to be worth keeping. The refit would be far more than you could expect to recover. Go new if you can; a surveyor (a VERY GOOD one) is a must if you decide to go the used route.

[awannabe]

I do appreciate your input, and I would not buy a boat without first having it surveyed (hopefully a very good surveyor, I found a hens tooth the other day so I might be on a lucky streak). I have been looking in what I would term the usual places, and will be making a trip to Hong Kong in Sept. to look there also (since I will not be operating in the US Cabotage laws will not be an issue). While my chartering experience is not extensive I do have a baseline to start with (and enough saved for 3 years of operation without a customer). Additionally I am not in a rush...I merely posted the question because even a very good surveyor can only speculate without actually removing material or planks and also has a large caveat at the end removing him from most liability. I was wondering what some of you have seen after removing the foam, etc.
Thank you for your concern, but as I have said I am not in a rush, and enjoy the search.

[dr.j]

You are correct in assuming that frames, floors, bulkheads, and longitudinal stringers are succeptable to decay when covered with glassed in foam insulation. When the idea of insulating fish holds arose, most did not consider the long term effects that encasing the hull structure in water absorbing foam would be. Here in B.C. this has been a very common occurence in the fishing industry. Fortunately, most of the boats had ceiling liners installed prior to the insulation process. This usually consists of sheets of plywood installed over the frames, bulkheads etc... The theory being that this allows airflow to the hull structure, thereby contributing to the prevention of decay. With the decline of our fishing industry, many boat owners have sold their licences back to the government and left the industry. With the inherent costs for the maintainance issues invloved, many have sold off their boats for a song. I have performed refits on several such boats that have made excellent pleasure boats. It is, however, a case of caveat emptor when buying a boat, whether new, used, built of wood, steel,glass,etc... Of course the ramifications can be greater when purchasing used commercial boats with insulated holds. You must also ensure that the hull fastenings in this area have not been affected. The absence of oxygen and the presence of moisture create the perfect conditions for corrosion. This is especially so at the faying surface between the frames and hull surface. Loose planks, or a hogged hull/keel would indicate structural failure, usually a result of frame or fastener decay. Make sure you are thorough in checking out the boat before signing anything.

[lprimina]

You can go to a small Boat building company and pay them to build the hull as finished as you want to pay for and install the power.
Ben

[awannabe]

Thanks Doc, I did not know about the plywood ceiling. I never noticed vent holes at the top of the frame channel though.
I wouldn't touch a hogged vessel with a 10 foot pole, just looking at one makes my wallet squirm. There are quite a few nice looking vessels available like you said "for a song". I have been leery of the foamed and glasses holds, and will probably stick to the look but don't touch theory.
One thing though, when you mentioned the corrosion of the fasteners. Most types of corrosion are caused by the oxidation of the metal (galvanic, chloride stress, etc. not withstanding). So without O2 I would think that the fasteners in that area would last longer. You have more experience than I do, so I don't doubt what you said about the suseptability of fasteners in that area but I wonder if the cause could be something else. I wondered about the structural material and never gave a thought to the fasteners. Thanks for bringing that up.

[PAR]

You don't need O2 in order to have fastener rot. Some types of wood will eat some types of fasteners, stainless requires O2 to remain stainless. In an O2 poor environment stainless rusts pretty quickly.

As a rule fishing boats and working craft in general, are quickly built of less then the best materials and used hard, usually well past their safe, serviceable period. I wouldn't be as concerned of the foam and 'glass as I'd be of the many other issues that are typical of this type of yacht. Being built of lesser quality materials and effort, quick and shoddy repairs plus a very hard life in service, should be enough to have you thinking about the costs of a bare hull rather then a conversion. Both will cost about the same, but the bare hull provides you with known quantities of product, effort and materials with the addition of a custom interior and deck plan to suit your needs. A conversion will be sort of custom, around the limitations of the existing major structures, incorporating much of what you desire, but with some compromises, in addition to the worn out, fishy smelling hull, that will likely need substantial repair also.

[awannabe]

PAR,

I agree you do not need O2, there are other types of corrosion, but in an o2 deficient elevated pH environment stainless will form a protective hematite layer and inhibit corrosion. In various forms of wood the pH is acidic and stainless is not a good fastener choice. If I had my druthers I would prefer monel, silicon-bronze, or even hot dipped galvanized over stainless. Also the different alloys of stainless show different properties. Regardless of the why, they do corrode and that would be an item to check. What Dr. J pointed out was that in boats with foamed and glassed holds the fasteners were more suseptible in that area. I didn't know that and would not question that fact as he has seen it first hand.

I think you are a little harsh on those fishing boats. Many of the owners take pride in their vessels and kept them well maintained. Yes many of the boats were worked like a borrowed mule...rode hard and put away wet, but there are also quite a few examples of well maintained boats out there. Heck there are even quite a few conversions where the person ran out of cash and now have to unload it. I am not saying I will go this route, but if the right opportunity arose it could be a viable option.