Opinions Please- does anyone have experience with...

[Cheetie]

Does anyone have any opinions regarding the Saga 43 (designed by Bob Perry and built by Saga in Ontario Canada)? I'm looking for an aft cockpit fast offshore cruiser that will make getting there at least half the fun. I have a nice list of 'requirements' etc. but I won't bore you with the details- just to say that the Saga fits most of them. From a safety standpoint, as a minimum, I would like the boat to meet the ORC Special Regulations and NOR appendice (used in the recent Newport to Bermuda Race)

There are some definite shortcomings associated with the boat (but this is the case with ANY boat!). I think I'll save my opinions until I hear a response from you folks. Has anyone sailed on (or against) a Saga 43?....Any other recommendations?

Regards,
Cheetie

[Polarity]

Hi Cheetie
Did you check out the owners assn http://www.sagaowners.com/ they could probably help...

Paul

[Cheetie]

Thanks for the reply, Paul. I have received a lot of good information form the Saga Owners group. I thought that I would perhaps get a more technical response from this group. One thing that I'm not too keen on is Saga uses vinylester resin for the outer two layers and polyester for all the rest. I know that this method is not too unusual in the industry however I've learned a lot by reading some of the links and posts here on this site. Saga said that they would build one for me out of 100% vinylester resin and said that the price difference would be around $3-4K USD. I'm not sure if they use a heat cure or not though. They are going to be building their new 48's using all vinylester. I'm just trying to figure out if its really worth it. How would I verify that they actually did it? I could request core samples or show up at the plant on the given day and read the container labels ;-). I do plan to be sailing the boat hard for a long period of time so it needs to be quite strong. I'll also give Bob Perry a call, but I want to have some well researched opinions before I speak with him.
Cheers,
Cheetie

You might be able to tell by color. The vinylesters we deal with are green once cured, while the polyesters are redish or brown, though this probably does not hold for all resins. You could ask the Saga builder what VE and PE resins they use and how they catalyse, and order samples to check the color.

You were joking, but it would be quite reasonable to request to be there (or a hired local N.A. or surveyer) while they laminate, and read the drum markings. Custom yacht buyers often have a hired gun to monitor every step of the process.

A core sample would be a little drastic, but they do have to drill cores for through-hulls, so you could request all the cores, but other than color change detecting the PE vs VE might be dificult without expensive testing. The fiber volume fraction, mechanical properties, and heat deflection temp will be similar.

Good luck!

Hi Cheetie,

This is my first visit to this site and I just happened across your post. As it happens, I worked with Bob Perry for five years before moving to sunnier skies in SoCal, and I designed the structure of the Saga 43. I also did most of the design work for the Saga 35, a better boat in my opinion all told.
In any event, as far as resin goes, vinylester v. polyester: Saga does indeed use vinylester for the outer laminate and the main reason is to prevent blistering. Vinylester has better properties all around than polyester, however many production boat builders stick to polyester because of cost. Many boats have been built w/ polyester and have lasted for years and years. It's really not a problem, but for my money, I'd build an epoxy boat any day.
As far as general characteristics the Saga 43 has a few features which set it apart from other production boats in that size range.
1. It's narrow. This means that the boat is initially tender, but has nice balance and ultimate stability characteristics. It also powers very well, 8kts easily.
2. Variable geometry rig. Essentially 2 headsails on furlers, one at the stem, one on the sprit. It's really a gimmick, in my opinion. It sounds good, but tacking the genoa in through the inner forestay is a hassle, and that sprit weighs a ton.
If I had the money to buy a new SAGA 43, I would consider building a custom epoxy boat. Don't get me wrong, the 43 is a good boat, but for about the same dough, you could build a lighter, faster, better-looking boat tailored to your needs. Most people don't realize how competitive custom building can be compared w/ production.
One thing I would suggest for sure if you end up with a 43- get a custom keel. I designed the stock keels and did at least 3 custom keels for Saga owners that all performed significantly better. I believe they may even have plugs for some of these custom keels and may have used them on subsequent boats. It's been a few years since I was in he loop.
In any event, I would be happy to discuss the 43 with you if you have any specific questions, etc. I've also done a fair amount of sailing on various 43s. I would also wwelcome the opportunity to try and convince you to do a custom boat!

Tim Kernan

[ewhel]

I don't have any design questions about design on the Saga 43 but as long as there are folks responding here that have been involved with the building of the Saga I have another question.....what kind of plywood is used on the interiors and where can I get it. We have a 2000/2001 Saga 43 that we are converting to a diesel electric hybrid and need to do some cabnetry work. We want to match the plywood....which appears to be Cherry....could you please comment.

Dave Tether

[WPLANE]

Hi Dave,

I'm afraid I can't help you with a source for plywood, but I'm sure if you contact Saga they will tell you. Call and ask for Mark-he's the head builder or at least he was when I was working for Perry. Sorry I can't remember his last name, but ask for "builder Mark" because there's an "advertizing Mark" too.
Diesel electric? I would love to know how that works out. Maybe you could drop a message after you get the system installed with some info on the system and how performance compares to traditional installation.
Tim Kernan

[WPLANE]

Dave,

Just remembered Mark's last name: Mark Vanderlee.

Cheers,
Tim

[ewhel]

Tim....thank you very much....I will call them. The System for the boat will be a Solomon Technologies 74, 12 Lifeline 4D batteries, 15KW 144VDC Generator from HFL, 6KW Combi Inverter/Charger, and 30amp DC to DC Converter(144VDC to 12VDC30Amp). We took out one water tank and one fuel tank and re-ballanced the boat...amazingly....it seems they list to starboard when fully loaded for a cruise....the beer and stuff in the lazarette were not accounted for when ballancing the boat. So....we used the batteries to re-ballance it. Now it will list to port until the lazarett is filled with cruising stuff and the Ice box has the beer, and mabey food, loaded in.
Thanx for your help
Dave Tether