14' Designed for aluminum

[Jack D Davis]

Unable to find a standard plan that fits my desires, I've designed this. Model is in steel (18 ga. except transom is 11 ga. over 3/16 wire frame). Uses would be lakes, rivers (no whitewater), tidewater (Oregon style). Fishing, day cruising.

Does the very shallow V fwd help any, or is it just a lot of added work for very little benefit (over flat bottom).

What range of HP could be used? Is my 8HP Merc enough for fishing and general cruising? I don't expect to get up on plane with this motor, obviously, but it would be nice if it achieved about 8mph.

I would expect it to be a stable fishing platform and reasonably comfortable at slower speeds. Will undoubtedly jar your teeth at plaing speeds.

What say you?


Scale 1 1/2"=1'
LOA 14'
Beam 64" max. 60" at transom
deadrise at transom 0 deg.
deadrise midships (7'6" fwd of transom) 9 deg.
bottom 4'-0" wide

http://www.hmds.ws/boat1.jpg
http://www.hmds.ws/boat2.jpg
http://www.hmds.ws/boat3.jpg

[Thunderhead19]

DEAR GOD! I want one!!!
You'll probably top out safely at 15HP. If you don't put more than 9.9 HP on it, you can skirt most of the regulations for small boats.
That thing KICKS ASS!!!!

[Gilbert]

Well Jack, your model is very nice.
I would say you should try your 8 horse motor. You might be surprised how well it goes.
I can't think of any suggestion that would make it simpler and so I won't suggest any that would make it more complicated.
I'm delighted that you didn't make the sheer straight from the point of maximum beam and aft like some manufacturers do. It makes all the difference in the looks department.
But you will need to take care in getting a really smooth (fair) curve to the sheer on the full size boat. Thanks for posting the pictures.
I hope you'll post pictures of the boat too.
Thanks.
Gilbert

[Jack D Davis]

Thanks, JDF and Gilbert. I'll be refining the design some.....slightly radiused instead of dead flat at the transom. This will make the chines parallel with the keel for about 40% of the bottom and strengthen the planing surface as well. I may also keep the keel line straight for a little further fwd to sharpen the "V" for a better entry at low speed. Basic lines will be the very similar. I'm also considering widening it a little, but unsure at this point. I'm afraid if I make it too wide it will not be rowable and I think it should be in the event of motor failure or lack of fuel.

[AlaskaFisherman]

Looks real good. I always wanted to build one just like it but now find I have to deal with surf, so I need a higher bow. Are you going to add seats?
Winston

[Jack D Davis]

Thanks Winston. Interior design not done yet. Still working on hull details. Just started a new model in 3"=1' (1/4 scale) and have changed width to 4'-10" bottom, now will move chine/sheer points in toward center more at bow, to be able to use 5' wide sheets. Seats will wait until I find out how much and where to put floatation. I've sent for a MIC application and understand the CG will help me iron that out. I plan to build a few of these in my shop to bolster my retirement income. We'll see how it pans out.

[Arrowmarine]

I have one question. Where the hell is Elmira, OR??? LOL :-) Isnt that up by Fern Ridge Lake?
Very nice ,Jack. It's reminicent of the old Alumaweld "Vee Sled" style from the late 70's early 80's era. Are you a newcomer to aluminum boat building? I see you have good forthought(material usage), and a good sense of style. I couldnt agree more with Gilbert about your shear line, and he's right about it being tough to get a fair curve. Looks like you know what you are doing, but if you need any advice I have loads of experience with this type of craft. If you are not familiar with level flotation calculations they can be a frustrating nightmare. I can help. Feel free to ask.
You can use whatever size motor you want but if you are building to sell,one thing to remember is it's doubtful anyone would buy this boat to put an 8 hp motor on it. This is a very versatile design. Build it for multi pupose use. From trolling with a 9.9 to 30 mph river running. Trust me you wont be able to build enough of 'em(Just my suggestion) I would have no worries about sticking a 40 hp jet on this. Widen the bottom to 60" and lengthen to 15' and you could probably go 65 hp jet. You could easily run in 3-4 inches of water. With the variable deadrise from 9 deg to 0 deg in about 7 feet, you'll launch out of the hole! Be on plane in double it's own length,easy. The flat aft will be very stable and the vee front will aid in handling and smoothing the ride.
Ok, now for the Coast Guard. Did you fill out the MIC application, or did you just send a request for it? If you requested it, you will first get the "So you wanna be a boatbuilder" packet. Basicly it will try to talk you out of it. Then you have to get ahold of someone to send out an application to you. Good luck! Maybe they do it on purpose to weed out the non serious:-) My MIC is in proccess right now, and only because after two weeks of talking to 30 different people at the USCG(some of which didnt know what an MIC was)I finally located a blank one from one of my local buddies. If you havent gotten an MIC app. let me know and I'll send you a copy of the form.(Incidently, the USCG inspector for this region is a fantastic guy. Very helpful. You want him on your good side.)
Best of luck iwith your endeavor, Joey

[Arrowmarine]

How tall are the sides?

[AlaskaFisherman]

I have a brother-in-law in Texas that owns a marine dealership - lots of flat bottoms there and they need the shape you are designing. That is the area that I founded my desire for this shape because they have big lakes and the low cost boater uses 14 to 17 ft long aluminum boats.
Our river guides on the Keani river use 17 to 22 ft long aluminum boats that have a very shallow V. They are limited to 35hp but cheat with 50hp marked 35hp.
Winston

[AlaskaFisherman]

1/8 " gets a lot of attention (thicker than norma) in Texas but in Alaska 1/8 is all that is used. Here in Alaska we are running over rocks in rivers and lakes and that is a good reason for 1/8. No rowing any of these boats.
There are some shaply aluminum boats but the presses must be very costly.
We are using some 3/16 and 1/4 inch on my Gill Net Boat and have no luck shaping the 1/4" with block and tackle.
Winston

[Jack D Davis]

I have one question. Where the hell is Elmira, OR

Right! On the Western shore of Fern Ridge mud hole. No lake this year....Corps has it dried up for repairs to the dam. It should be complete in late Fall though and ready for next year.

Medford. My birthplace. I attended Lone Pine School from 1946 until early 50's....It only had two classrooms then, as I recall. There was a hitching rail along one side of the school for those that rode horses to school. I visited the old school a few years ago and the old original building is still there. Lots added to it though.

Yes. I'm a new comer. In 1962, after four years with the Navy, I told the mustering out officer that I was going home to build boats. Now, after all these years, I'm finally getting serious about doing what I wanted to do way back then. I've been a metal worker all of my working life and even before. Now I'm semi-retired and taking SS. My door business has seen it's heyday come and go and now it's mostly gone. I have lots of acumulated tools and equipment and a 32'x60' clear span shop building with jib crane. I'm in the country on almost two acres, so noise shouldn't be a problem for the neighbors. With very little overhead costs and equipment at hand, I'm thinking I can fabricate a few boats to keep me busy and make a few dollars to supplement my SS income at the same time. I'm still working out details and researching both the design and business end, but at this point it looks good and I'm probably about 90% sure I'm going to do it.

I have called the CG and they are sending the MIC papers and application. At least that's what they told me. It should be here any time now. I called the number on their web site and the person that answered said he would send it next day. No questions asked and no down talk either. We'll see what I get.

[Jack D Davis]

Revised model is 4'10" wide bottom and 69" beam about midships. Sides are 20" with transom cut to 15" for short shaft. Bottom is slightly radiused at transom rather than dead flat. 3" bow in 5'. I'm making the model in steel over a wire frame like before only in 3"=1' scale (1/4 scale). I'll post pictures of it here when finished.

[hoagey]

Jack,

Here's a plan that might stir some ideas.

http://www.bodenboatplans.com/power/details.aspx?id=168

Hoagey

[Jack D Davis]

Certainly similar, but not quite the same. Hard to see in such a small drawing. Using CG formulas the design I'm working on should take a 30HP max in one configuration and 45HP in another. I'm wondering why the plan in the link states on 15HP?????

[Jack D Davis]

I've made a few changes that I think will improve lines, strength and performance. The Chine and keel lines are now parallel for about half the length from transom forward in both plan and profile views. The bottom at the transom is slightly radiused as are the sides at the transom. The chine/sheer point near bow is drawn in toward the center to make use of 5' wide sheet. She's broad in the beam.

Spec's. as it stands now.

LOA 14'
Beam at transom 66"
Max. Beam (MS) 90"
Transom 15"
Sides at transom 20"
Sides at max. (MS) 22"

I hope you can make out the lines in spite of the cluttered back ground.

http://www.hmds.ws/auction/HPIM6514.jpg
http://www.hmds.ws/auction/HPIM6518.jpg
http://www.hmds.ws/auction/HPIM6522.jpg
http://www.hmds.ws/auction/HPIM6524.jpg

[cyclops]

I really love the flimsey, wood work table. That is a table I can use!

[Jack D Davis]

Look a little closer, Cyclops. See the channel iron and I beams....bolted to the floor. I just lay 3/4 chip board on top when I want a solid surface. Underneath is a grid of steel. ;)

[hoagey]

Jack,

Here is somthing similar that might interest you.


http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/80271848.htm

[Jack D Davis]

I value my teeth too much (what's left of them). Thanks anyway, Hoagey. I'm rethinking the forward half of the bottom of my model for a slightly softer ride.

[Jack D Davis]

After a lot of thought about jarred teeth, I've decided to sharpen the bow some to give a smoother ride, at least at lower speeds. The bow is no longer Garvey, but eliptical. Not sure this is how the final will be. I'll probably flatten the deck some, too.

http://www.hmds.ws/Skiff.jpg

I'm also working on a canoe design for welded aluminum. It will be thinner material and some tell me it can't be done......I hope they're wrong, cause I'm just about ready to put 'er to the test.

Go to my website to see the canoe plan and the strongback I'm working on. http://www.hmds.ws

[Jack D Davis]

Being fickle minded, I changed my mind again. Started with a fresh sheet of paper and came up with a new Garvey design. Similar to the original, but much improved (at least in my mind).

As always, comments appreciated.

http://www.hmds.ws/garvey_utility.htm

http://www.hmds.ws/HA%20Port%20Bow.jpg

[lewisboats]

I'm a woodbuilder usually, but I work with stainless at work ( meat packing plant). I have wondered...how do you stiffen panels of aluminum. Most of the aluminum boats I see have creases rolled into the metal to provide longitudinal stiff and to prevent flexing of the bottom. How would a home builder go about stiffening the Panels?

Steve

[Jack D Davis]

This boat will be built in 1/8" material. Much thicker than the thin sheet metal that is roll formed for stiffness. Should additional stiffening be required or desired, strakes can be added on the bottom or longitudinal stiffeners added inside the hull at the bottom. The sides in this boat will be exceptionally strong due to the tubular foam filled cross section. I may add a few chine to chine frames to accomodate a flat deck which would also stiffen the bottom, but probably not necessary for that reason. I'm still working on details and those may change as the prototype is tested.

[Deering]

I have an old Sears Sportfisher with really similar specs to what you're building - same length, beam, etc. Built in FRP (aluminum would be better!), it's a great boat - the ride is reasonable, it gets on step (barely) with a 15 hp with three people, and it has nice initial stability as a work platform.

One thing you might want to think about is tracking stability - my old Sears has a "keel" shoe about 4" wide and an inch deep running the length of the hull, which I've beefed up with a plate of aluminum for grounding. Without that keel I suspect the handling would be a little squirrely.

A 15 hp is light for this - a 25 (its rated power) would be much better. The Alaska rule for outboard sizing is "double the rated hp plus 10", but not sure I can endorse that for this boat. I'm thinking about a 40 hp jet since I live on a river. One issue I'll have, and you might too, is whether the boat can handle the weight aft. A 40 hp Yamaha jet weighs 200 lbs. Haven't done a load test yet to see. Also, at least with the Yamaha jets, you'll need a 20" transom.

What are you estimating the weight will be?

[skiffboy]

Hi Jack,
I have attached a pic of a 'BarraBuster' that we supply to home builders and professionals in kit form. The kits cover boats of this type from 14' to 18' with the smallest having a maximum engine rating of 90hp.

The driving concept for the design was to keep it as simple as possible, which means a simple but effective framing system and shell panels that bend into place very easily.

As soon as you start making things harder, you introduce areas that can go wrong. What I mean is, minimise the amount of bending you need to do to the shell panels, that way you minimise the potential of the boat coming out assymetric. Also, the less welding you need to do the better. It takes a lot of time and skill to keep an alloy structure straight when you introduce heat from a welder.

I'm sorry if I am telling you things you already know, you seem to be pretty handy from the photos you have posted, I just believe that a simple boat that works will always look better than a complex one that doesn't.

Cheers,
Tristan.

[skiffboy]

Sorry, This should have the attachment now.

[Jack D Davis]

Deering: Using the CG formulas to determine the safe HP rating for my Garvey, as shown, It will safely handle a 35HP on the 15" transom. If I go to a 20" transom and remote steering, that changes to 110HP. Transom height will be one of the options offered. I haven't calculated the weight of the finished hull yet. The prototype will be "MY" boat and will be left bare so I can make changes. I suspect it may need a couple of strakes on the bottom. Testing will tell.

Tristan: I just believe that a simple boat that works will always look better than a complex one that doesn't.


I trust that you aren't trying to tell me my design won't work. I have designed a simple pipe clamping affair to eliminate tack welds in the seams and make it possible to completely weld the hull from the outside and also eliminate welds on the inside. I posted this method somewhere on this site. Here is a link to it http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8907
This works very well in tests. Again the prototype will tell all.