Future of High End Racing Yachts

[D'ARTOIS]

Reading the buidling reports of Nicorette, AMRO BANK and many others like Bonduelle not to speak of the America's Cuppers, will they boost - most probably - the position of the high end builders and everything that hangs around that particular level of engineering/yachtbuilding?

In fact, this will imply that very meticulously aerospace, F1 and other high tech sports are scrutinised on valuable materials/knowledge that is available, whatever the costs.
Canting keels and their movement-mechanism, masts, rigging, sails, and last but not least the designs.

Over are the days of Conny van Rietschoten with his non-sponsored Flyer, over are the days of the Coopers, Vanwalls, Lola's, - that era is a passed railway station.

Today, sport-sponsoring is everywhere visible and the most distinguished yachtraces do not exist anymore in their own good name. As in horseracing and many other sports.

Ruling comes and goes. IORC, IOR, IMS, IRC, apparently it is very difficult, or next to impossible to design a proper handicap system that allows also the non-sponsored individual to enter this level of sailing. Where are the days of the STAR, later OSTAR?

The single handers cannot even sail their exotic machines at full power, they simply cannot manage to control the boat 24 hrs a day. I am specifically mentioning Vendee Globe, and the Volvo Open (better: closed).

Even a little Mini Transat boat costs around US$ 80-100.000,= 6.50 mtrs loa.

Will we have finally a "Bernie Ecclestone" controlled F1 circuit of yachtraces, in this case the sponsors acting as "Bernie"? Or is their still a place for the individual to compete against the top-dollars (or Euro's).

[MikeJohns]

We need to revive races like the Melbourne Osaka race. Entrants were paid 1 Million yen by Yamaha to finish within 4 weeks of the first yacht in its division. The rating system divided boats into racing and cruising divisions using a simple formula based on displacement and length.
Freinds of mine raced a traditional timber Gaf rigged ketch Hereschoff 36 "Titoa"and had a ball as well as getting a million yen ! Now that was fantastic publicity for Yamaha at the time.

[Doug Lord]

Seems to me those kind of "old-fashioned" races still exist. Weren't the vast majority of the boats in the Sydney Hobart "regular"-some classic-boats? I think to some extent that is still true of the Newport-Bermuda race.. I don't think the super high tech sponsored boats are the way of the future for everybody nor will they hurt racing for everybody-and they might help in some ways.

[Richard Petersen]

If you are a American business man who sponsors a vehicle, you are expected to WIN, not just provide a full day of racing for spectators. It is called peer pressure and or ego. It was no different between Corvette and Thunderbird. Competition has NEVER changed, only the people and the amount of money, change every few years.

[CT 249]

We won't have a Bernie Ecclestone type of sailing, because most people don't want to watch sailing the way they like to watch cars. We also don't have the enormous sailing industry to provide the support that BMW, Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes etc provide to car racing - so if we go that way too far we'll die, just as most other forms of "pro sailing" following the TV viewer model have died (Formula One 52s, Ultra 30s, Ultimate 30s, Prosail 40s, Formula 40s, Ultimate Yacht Race 14s and Hobies, PYRA, Grand Prix 18s......).

The big fully sponsored maxis are hurting the sport out here. Our fleets are dwindling. This year's Hobart was much smaller than the typical Hobarts of the '80s and '90s, and just a third of the size of the last anniversary race. Even the alternative races (Coffs etc) are much smaller. Why? Because to finish as close to the front of the fleet as you could with an old half tonner, you now need a 50+ footer. Many less people can afford a fast 50 than could afford an old half tonner, so fleets are dwindling. People who own a 40 don't like to be "little boats", so they stop racing. Guys with 30s and old boats don't like finishing days after the 98 footers, in a different weather system where luck dictates the results, so they stop racing. Even Coffs now has J/35s and Farr 31s as the last boats to finish, in the boom days the last boats were old half tonners and (IIRC) even 27 footers and a quarter tonner.

What is working, in terms of getting people sailing? Optimists, Etchells, Lasers, Dragons, Beneteaus, Hobies....cheap, simple, tough boats that don't go a million miles an hour. It's that simple, but some people want to turn the sport towards those who sit on the sidelines and stuff up those who want to compete.

[dreamer]

You're talking about the future of 'high end' racing yachts.

It would be interesting to see the historical numbers. There have always been 'high end' racing yachts...probably even in the days of Cleopatra.

I do see, however, the influence of sponsorship ruining a great deal of sport in general. But, isn't that how it's always been? Perhaps in the past the sponsorship was more private, but nevertheless the 'high end' was reserved for a select elite. Hell, sailing in private craft really hasn't come into its stride until the past 40 years or so.

It's sad to hear the fleets are dwindling in the Hobart and others. What it seems to me - and I don't know Jack about the Hobart - is that this needs to be addressed by rules. Perhaps the fact that the rock stars are given preference simply means that big changes are on the horizon for these types of organizations.

Also consider that there are 100s of events now where 10 years ago there weren't so many. Not sure what it's like in Oz, but in the states we have so many events it's mind boggling. And it seems like dozens of new ones crop up every year.

One thing I'm curious about is the audience. Who is the audience for an event like the Sydney - Hobart?

As for getting people into sailing, that's a great question. I was speaking at a sailboat dealer at the boat show recently who said sales have been pretty good for the past few years. This dealer sells Catalinas in the 16 to 25 foot range.

When I owned my Catalina Capri 22, I put a lot of effort into resurrecting the Capri 22 NA. Once the word spread, Capri 22 owners came out of the woodwork. The 1000th Capri 22 came off the line in '03.

In these parts (Midwest U.S.) Optimists, Lasers, J22, and 20'ish PHRF boats are the stepping stone for most. On the weekends in the summer, the lakes are covered with these boats. It's like sailing through a swarm of gnats. These sailors are the impetus for future sailors. If you ask people how they got into sailing, most will tell you they went sailing once on a friend's boat.

I would be interested in knowing the breakdown of those who sail strictly to compete and those who sail strictly to just sail around.

What does that mean in terms of the High End? Probably not a whole lot. If people are discouraged to compete in an event that includes the high end boats, then I'd say the event needs an overhaul. There are bazillions of sailors out there and they're still going to sail, events or not.

Cheers,

Rick

[Richard Petersen]

Well and tactfully put, Dreamer. Interesting that Dreamer understands the closed society of high end racing and most non-dreamers can not accept reality. What is so hard to understand about the word RACING. It does NOT mean EQUAL!! If it did, all boats would cross the line together.

[D'ARTOIS]

Mike Sanderson, Skipper of the new ABN-AMRO BANK:

THE VO70 DESIGN HAD TO RESULT IN CHEAPER YACHTS; THE OPPOSITE WAS THE RESULT

Quote: "After my experiences with the Open 60 I know for sure that it is very dangerous to chase these boats (Open 60) with full crew on top speed around the world."

"They are so powered up"

"It will be very interesting to see how the Volvo 70 will sail. We have already ordered survival suits, leg, arm and breast protectors are ordered also; the spray will hit you so hard that you will need that kind of protection."

"The Volvo 70 might be an improvement, the basic design-targets are not reached. It had to be a more comfortable, safer and cheaper to build ship because of a limitation in sails and crew."

"However, the opposite was the result. The Canting keel system makes the building substantial more exoensive; nor mast and sails will be cheaper, and easier sailing is also a fiction. What you did on the 60 with twelve, you have to do that now with only nine crew, on a larger boat."

"You could sail a Volvo 60 on 120% - that one was under rigged. Those you could push, all the way"

"Doing the same with a Volvo 70, you need actually a crew of fifteen."

In this interview the new Canting Keel design in combination with Twin Foils was discussed.
"Sailing with a Canting Keel gives the boat a "kind of twisted action."
When the keel moves a bit, a snakelike movement shakes the boat."

He (Mike Sanderson) comments further on the new CK application:
"With a Canting Keel you need something else down there and that should be a very good one. Actually is the CK configuration an inefficient hydrodynamic package - if the angle of keel changes, you have to compensate. It is a tremendous puzzle."

"This ABN-AMRO project is beautiful - we have money and time!"
______________

Hurrah, Hurrah - finally after Conny Van Rietschoten the first Dutch Project normally financed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (on my account)

(interview from "Zeilen" magazine, 2 February 2005)


It was not my intention to put a negative sound in this issue. It still not is.
I fail however, to understand that people with a certain prospect in mind can so foul up their target.

[Thunderhead19]

Reminds me of the Hughes HK-1 Hercules (the "Spruce Goose"). Huges spent so much time fiddling with things, changing parts, redesigning assemblies etc.. that the war was over and the budget was blown many times over before it was complete. But it definitely did fly. I think that the difference between professional sport and amateur sport is that the game is expected to be played at a higher level, people are prepared to pay bucks to watch, and ownership is prepared to pay whatever it takes to assemble a winning crew and a winning boat that will get publicity on an incredible scale, so they can leverage even more money back into their pockets. Back in Hughes' day, crackpot millonaires and royalty threw money around for little other reason than to play their games. What we need is a few good crackpots.

[Richard Petersen]

I am not sure there are any really wealthy people with true EXCESS MONEY. Proof, it always take a GROUP OR CONSORTIUM to pay for a pet project. If I had enough $$ to play with, I sure as ---- would not take financial partners. :)

[CT 249]

Dreamer, there have always been 'high end' racing yachts as you say, and often as you say "the 'high end' was reserved for a select elite".

But (as you also say) sailing in private craft really hasn't come into its stride until recently. And when it did, it came about because of changes that made sailing cheaper and more accessible and made "big boats" smaller.

For example, one of the big booms in sailing came about in the 1930s, when the Depression moved attention away from boats like the America's Cuppers and put the spotlight on Stars, Snipes, Comets, Lightnings and similar boats.

Another major boom around the world occurred in the '50s and '60s, and it was driven by fibreglass boats that were easier to own and plywood boats that were cheaper. The marketing was all about the fact that sailing had become cheaper and more accessible. That greatest of all booms in sailing occurred when there was NO America's Cup racing and continued when the AC started up in 12s - which were tiny by previous AC standards. The "maxis" were fairly few and mostly restricted to 73' LOA (later increasing under IOR). If you look back at those boom days, you see that small boats; from dinghies to MORC boats; were the centre of the sport. AND THE SPORT WAS GROWING.

The "high end" which lead developments in the '70s and '80s (boom days in offshore racing) was the small boats; the 1/4, 1/2, 1 tonners that produced Peterson, Holland, Farr, Davidson, Briand, Faroux. They introduced sponsorship to "normal" offshore racing, exotic materials IIRC, fractional rigs, etc. The big boats followed the developments a couple of seasons later.

So we had innovation and development - but we also had high-end sailing where the leading edge was people like Farr (designing a breakthrough boat as a cruiser-racer 27'er for a mate to build at home), Holland (designing a breakthrough 24 footer 'cause that's all he could afford), Faroux (becoming a top designer in Minis and Quarters), etc etc etc. So the "high end" wasn't elitist in monetary terms, particularly in places like New Zealand that lead development. Guys like Geoff Stagg (head of Farr International) and Jon Sayer (Aust/NZ designer) built their own offshore racing boats as working- or middle-class teenagers. The "high end" was only elite in terms of skill and innovation.

The same thing is really happening today - canters are an old idea from small amateur classes, but they're only getting major publicity now because they've been taken up by sponsored maxi boats. The "high end" is still not innovative, and it never really has been. It's just that the big-time owners now have PR hacks putting out press releases. They are also using the publicity they bring to bully race committees into changing rules (like the S-H upper rating limit) to suit bigger boats.

In Australia there's no massive increase in event numbers. Some "race weeks" have grown at the expense of longer ocean races, but I don't think there's been an overall increase.

The S-H gets something like 200,000 people (IIRC) watching the start live, live TV telecast, live coverage during the event. The coverage used to cover the whole fleet; now the major sponsors use their pull with the TV broadcasters to cover big boats only, I think. It's probably as prominent in the public mind as it ever was, but the fleets are dwindling.

I'm really glad to hear about the strength of grass-roots sailing in the US. The US has little "high end" sponsored racing compared to its population, and the fact that sailing is doing well and it's happening in boats a long way from the "high end" world just seems to underline that we don't need the glamour boats to keep the sport healthy.

Cheers


Richard Petersen; can I ask how much sailboat racing you have done?

There is a strong move towards equality of equipment in racing - look at maxi-owning multi-millionaires like Kahn and Plattner and Crichton and their involvement in Farr 40s and other ONE DESIGNS. It's just that there's a skin of over-publicised guys at the top end of the size scale whining about getting the rules changed just for themselves.

[Richard Petersen]

Competitive. None. I hope you are right about your last paragraph.

[Richard Petersen]

CT249. I am very biased in sailing. My best memories are 40 to 50 years ago when a weekend race could mean class heats all day Saturday. Finals on Sunday. Barnagat Bay in New Jersey had so much sail that power boats went to the other end on their own. It was a peacefull time. :)