Raft down the Mississippi

[qwist04]

My friends and I are planning on rafting down the Mississippi River (starting where the St. Croix River empties into the Mississipppi, just south of the Twin Cities in MN) to St. Louis, MO. There are four of us, and we plan on using paddles for "power". Could anyone offer me some help, or point to where I can find some? Also, would it be possible to attach a sail, or would that probably be too much work?

[Dutch Peter]

Try serching the internet for a local store that sells boat equipment, they'll have paddles and oars.
Yes, it's possible to attach a sail on a inflatable raft, won't be big but anything helps.

See this site: http://sailboatstogo.thetradeslist.com/

[qwist04]

Wow, i just realized that my last post was very poorly phrased. We have the paddles, but we were planning on building the raft ourselves (with wood, possibly styrofoam, barrels or tires for additional floatation). I was wondering if anyone knows of the best method to accomplish this. Thanks for your help with the sail, Dutch

[gonzo]

I believe they don't allow non powered vessels through the locks.

[duluthboats]

I’ve been through dams 1-7 in a canoe, 5 and 5a dozens of times in canoe or kayak. From the cities to southern Iowa it’s a nice river, south of that it’s mostly a barge canal running through some great country. I would not recommend a raft on the commercial part of the river. A good raft trip is from Winnie to St Cloud. A trip like that will teach you a lot before you go messing with barge traffic, bad currents, and head winds in large open areas like Pepin. Go in the late spring when the water is high but below flood stage. If you start north of Winnie, you’ll have to deal with beaver dams. Which are harder to pass than the Army Corp ones.

Gary :D

[WoodButcher]

I would suggest that you try some "local", short
trips before you start-out on this voyage.

Every summer brings a fresh crop of
"Huck Finn wannabes" to the Mississippi,
most of whom manage to survive.

But some don't; yes, some die trying
this sort of thing.

You need to fully understand the workings
of locks, dams, and commercial traffic to
safely make this kind of trip.

I used to be a Mississippi river towboat pilot,
and still am involved in the commercial towing
industry, and I am not amiss when I say that
we all dread the coming of summer and the
'"rafters," most of whom have no concept
of how to safely navigate on the river.

It's enough to give you an ulcer.

[lobsterman]

woodbutcher...i agree, i had about the same thoughts on this topic. i can't believe that people would actually consider doing this, not only are they risking their own lives but also the lives of others transiting the river, if they think they can't afford a real boat now, wait til they get hit with the bills for the liabillity for the damages that they are going to cause. that is if they even survive at all.

dreaming of doing it is ok, but don't actually consider going thru with it.

the people who are actually considering doing this would probably be better off going over Niagra falls in a barrel, that way the only person that they kill will be themselves.

[kapnD]

Dont forget that the people that made this great nation out of a wilderness tried and suceeded in some "damnfool adventures". Life without risk is a waste of time. I'd love to raft down America's great rivers, and would expect those who ply the same waters for profit to co-operate. Its like riding a bicycle down the highway. Not the safest thing to do, but possible, legal, and frequently done. I fully agree with Woodbutcher that one should do their homework before trying it. As for the original post, I would think that a quiet 4-stroke outboard would be worth many paddles!

[gonzo]

kapnD:
those who ply th water for porfit have deep draft vessels. Therefore, the right of way. If you have a magic way of stopping a barge train in less than two miles it would be interesting to know.

[kapnD]

Gonzo, I recognize the very real danger of the idea, but wouldn't let that stop me. Certainly the barge trains have the "right of way", but no single faction should have the exclusive "right" to the use of the waterway. We have a similar situation here where a fuel transfer station has been erected offshore right over my favorite fishing grounds. Now its illegal to transit within several hundred yards of the area, much less drop the hook for some fishing. Who owns the "rights" to mother nature?

[lobsterman]

drifting aimlessly down the river, that is whats dangerous ( paddles don't cut it ), but if you had even just a kicker motor, follow the rules of the road, and abide by the CG safety regs there would be no problem. "it does not matter whether your commercial or recreational", i do not believe thats the issue here, the safety of all of the people transiting the river and the safety of those that have to come to your rescue is. you must have the abilty to give way or avoid eminant dander in order to save your own life :^)

[stuckinanoffice]

I'm with Capt'nD on this one. This country has enough people living their lives in front of the tv. We've become a nation of risk managers, not risk takers.

For some reason I've had this idea of "setting out for the territories" on a home made raft. There was on PBS a documentary about a group of guys who rafted down the Yukon River. Their raft was quite the production too.

There a site that tells the strory of some kids who rafted down the Mississippi: http://personal.mykka.com/gallery/mississippi

They made it. The people they met along the way loved it. They got thru the locks. Seemed the lockmasters even got a kick out of em. And when they're on their death bed, they can look back and say they did it.

Cool forum.

[asathor]

I think you should consider at least building a boatlike vessel so you have some maneuverability. Having sailed lake Peppin and St Croix I know that there are a lot of tight spots where you don't want to be unable to get around the barges. The current always takes the long way so it may fling you across the river or leave you stranded on the inside of a curve.

Something with 4 oars, a couple of leeboards and a sail would make sense since you could row it with enough power to get out of the way. Sailing in itself is not enough because the wind tends to bend at least some in the direction of the river - a tacking duel in a headwind on a busy river might be an adventure but not for very long. As far as I recall we got a lot of days with the wind out of the south on Peppin.

You can count on your rowing but not on the wind. You can also count on finding misc. submerged stuff so you want a smooth bottom.

Use whatever materials but make it a boat.

[amazonhippie]

It is dangerous, but not THAT dangerous. You can take any vessel (that fits) through the locks. You should have a motor to get out of the barge's way. REMEMBER: When you're in the middle of a giant river, you can't tell how fast you or others are moving. I believe that anything over 10 hp. must be liscensed. So, get a 9.5 hp. or less. i'm looking for someone to raft the mississippi with me. I've paddled the lower part in a canoe, but I want to do the entire length on a homade raft. If you're interested post a reply.

[trimarandan]

my best sugestion would be to make a canoe style boat, something easy to carry.

a good friend of mine did the entire river solo, it took him 2 months, he started a few miles from lake Itasica after the river gets big enough to allow it and just went from there. if you just stay alert and not do anything rediculas you'll be ok but if your getting in over your head you can always just paddel to the side and rethink your plan, i'm sure you didnt need me to tell you that anyway. i hope you have a good trip and i'd look foward to hear how the whole expearince went for you.

[John Beard]

It is dangerous, but not THAT dangerous. You can take any vessel (that fits) through the locks. You should have a motor to get out of the barge's way. REMEMBER: When you're in the middle of a giant river, you can't tell how fast you or others are moving. I believe that anything over 10 hp. must be liscensed. So, get a 9.5 hp. or less. i'm looking for someone to raft the mississippi with me. I've paddled the lower part in a canoe, but I want to do the entire length on a homade raft. If you're interested post a reply.
I would like to talk to you about rafting the Miss. as I've been working on a plan for years and am getting close.

[John Beard]

I would like to hear from anyone who has "rafted" some or all of the Miss. river. I am preparing to do this and want to gather information from first hand experience.

[mbeall]

my friend and i had been interested in canoeing or rafting part of the mississippi, primarily the lower half, south of cairo, IL, and i had heard that there weren't any locks down that way, is that true? also, i wanted to know what the traffic was like down that way, and how sketchy the people in the towns down there were. thanks

[safewalrus]

if you just stay alert and not do anything rediculas you'll be ok but if your getting in over your head you can always just paddel to the side and rethink your plan,

I guess by the time your getting to this stage you got yourself a big problem! was there a 'pun' intended? one wonders? :rolleyes:

As for not doing it, that's NOT what the experts are saying, what they are saying is DO NOT overreach your capabilities this can be a dangerous thing your doing, it could get you killed, it could also get them killed when they have to stop the job they are doing to rescue some idiot who's put the whole bloody river at risk! their job funnily enough is not to go rescuing fools but to get on with whatever they are doing for the good of the country etc and primarily THEIR OWN FAMILIES! "Sorry Mr's Snaffleburger your children do not have a father any longer because he died today trying to rescue some numpty trying to sail down the river in an empty oil drum for fun!" does not go down to well (Especially when your six years old!)

Think about it, have a go if you want but for Chrissakes be careful!!!!:(

[SamSam]

my friend and i had been interested in canoeing or rafting part of the mississippi, primarily the lower half, south of cairo, IL, and i had heard that there weren't any locks down that way, is that true? also, i wanted to know what the traffic was like down that way, and how sketchy the people in the towns down there were. thanks

Apparently there is one more at St. Louis. From what I've heard the lower Mississippi is lined with levee's and so you see nothing but levees. This ought to give you something to think about...
http://members.aol.com/americacruising/mississippi-lower.html
The upper Mississippi is much more enjoyable. Sam
http://members.aol.com/americacruising/mississippi-upper.html

[longliner45]

the mississippi river is very unforgiving ,,40ft loggs pop to the surface at 6knots or so ,( ask river boat captons about holes in the hulls), the currant is very strong ,especially at forks where other rivers or streams merg, the river changes daily It would probably be safer to ride an innertube from cuba to key west . but I admire you gusto! was gonna do it myself ,had a great lakes resque boat ,was gonna be a fisherman in the gulf of mexico,I was talked out of it by my fishing buddys,and it was cheaper to drag it to destin,and fish for 10 yrs. think before you do,and think about you future,,,,,,have fun longliner

[Wellydeckhand]

Even in Indonesia where river have less traffic is killing people in big number to does who laugh and scorn on river spirit................

Just be careful......... and think carefully....... get news publicity and buy more policy on health and accident..... that is more of a sure bet.:D:D:D

[Nikkiberry]

My friends and I are planning on rafting down the Mississippi River (starting where the St. Croix River empties into the Mississipppi, just south of the Twin Cities in MN) to St. Louis, MO. There are four of us, and we plan on using paddles for "power". Could anyone offer me some help, or point to where I can find some? Also, would it be possible to attach a sail, or would that probably be too much work?
hey, me and another friend are fixin on makin a raft and goin down the river too, have you already done it? can you give any advice to me so we dont parish? we want to go from minnesota to louisianna. some folk say we're crazy, but i kow alot of folk have done it.
good luck and thanks!
Nik - ashtred@aol.com

[John Beard]

Nik, I have several good accounts and web sites for rafting the M. Please PM or Email me .John jcbeard99@yahoo.com

[Ari]

I'am used to bamboo raft..been rafting since my boyhood days..rafting down a river is very nice but in certain areas it might become too hazardous. Make your raft easy to control type..I love to have an engine to assist..it might save your life..Rowing a canoe is streanuos enough..what about paddling a poorly design raft ?

[rafter]

I did it solo on a homebuilt in 2003, from minneapolis to donaldsonville, about 1,700 miles or so in 28 days, but it was all motoring. I agree you def. need a motor (i even had a backup) and had a deepcycle for talking to the barge caps and bridges and locks and entertainment. I have a lot of pics. It's def. doable. My design had some bad flaws, and some great ones. I basically just copied the floating neutrinos and then added a little overhead cover in the middle. Email me if you want any help.
nsykes@uwsuper.edu

[DaylightBrigade]

I would also like to join in, Ive done a few small rafts, one trip for a week with a homemade 22X10 ft. raft. To reiterate what rafter just said - These guys have an interesting thing going - http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/

[tom kane]

If you are going to trip down 'OLD GLORY' please don`t keep the adventure to your self.There are are many very interesting books and stories I have read and I have enjoyed them greatly.'OLD GLORY' by Jonathan Raban who went all the way about 1980`s was one.There have been articles in the Popular Mechanics magazines about rafters doing shorter parts in their holidays and they make me envious,my type of adventure.

[Frosty]

Hey Tom. Not seen you around for a while, ave yer been on holiday?

[tom kane]

Hi jackfrost,have been selling up old outboard collections and other gear to reduce time consuming work load and planning a down river trip (unfortuneatly not Mississppi) like these guys,which is a mighty challenging river.Some people do the trip in stages to have good wheather and take a break,but you don`t notice that when you read about it.I have a lot of portraits people want me to paint (including grand child) so I have to make space to work.

[Frosty]

Never even thought about it, just saw your name and jumped in.
Errmmm slightly interested ,--what do you do? build a big flooting thing, get a stick and push off. This will take you all the way down the mississippi. A bit like Tom Soyer novel?
So the question is I guess how big your floating thing is. Sounds like some one could make money renting good ones out then dragging them all the way back by road for some one else to have a go.

Hey now Im interested.

[rafter]

> To live to tell about it. Like I said, just take
> your time :) Its safe,
> trust me, you just need that old fear and respect
> thing to keep it safe.

>
> Size: 16X16, the little house was 8X8, right in the
> middle. I was a little
> floating square!
>
> Motor: 15 HP 2 stroke main, and a 1969 4HP back up.
> 15 was ran wide open,
> 14 hours or so a day!! Would go through a little
> more than a gallon an hour.
>
> Sleep: WHatever suited me, but the raft was the
> coolest, easy, and most fun.
> I could set up my tent on the roof of the house if I
> wanted. When I left the
> raft alone, Id set up the tent anyway so thiefs
> would not know if I was
> there!!
>
> Mosquitos: When under way no problem, but as SOON
> AS I STOPPED, they were
> everywhere. I had a good bug plan though: I could
> roll down my huge
> mosquito nets (from military) down all 4 sides of my
> little house before I'd
> stop, and use clothes pins to pinch all the areas
> bugs could get in. worked
> awsome.
>
> Food: I had a base supply pre purchased for the
> whole month, but food is
> easy to get. I had a cooler of ice the whole time!!
>
> I had neither rudder or keel, just used the motor.
> and trusted to use a
> backup!
>
> Constuction will take a long time to explain.
> Basically like the vilma b.
> two pontoons connected by 2x4's. sort of bad design
> though, too close to the
> water, I was always getting waves overboard, minor
> nuisance. Never in real
> deanger as it floated on styrofoam.

Well I had some special problems. I'm in the
> > military and they would only
> > give me one month off. So, I had to come up with
> a
> > plan to launch, travel,
> > and recover in a month. Basically I came to the
> > conclusion that you can have
> > either a lot of money, a lot of time, or a lot of
> > creativity, the later of
> > the two the neutrinos had. I had little time, so
> I
> > had to spend extra money
> > to get it done fast enough, which meant motor and
> > gas money. If you are
> > creative enough, money becomes less of an issue,
> for
> > example fund raising or
> > going and getting used parts etc etc. But what I
> > did was built a mock up in
> > my garage, actually the entire thing, which could
> be
> > disassembled in around 7
> > major pieces, which could then be loaded on a car
> > hauler (small 16 foot
> > trailer) borrowed from a friend. We timed it and
> > were able to assemble it on
> > location ( at North Mississippi Park in
> Minneapolis)
> > in like a half an
> > hour!!! Then I shoved off and we were under way.
> > We even did a test run an
> > a small lake near Duluth. YOu see, I had to drive
> > it from Duluth to
> > Minneapolis.
> > YOu have to start at Minneapolis because that is
> the
> > start of the Navigation
> > Channel. THis means that the rest of the 27 or so
> > Damns are lockable, or
> > passable.
> > Other design considerations: YOu want 360 degree
> > field of vision from a
> > sitting position
> > Consider wind action on your boat, winds can get
> > nasty, and can blow you into
> > danger if you get caught in them, the trick here
> is
> > if you have time, stay
> > put!!! Just chill out and read for another day.
> I
> > just kept pushing no
> > matter what the weather and it was more difficult
> > then it had to be.
> > You need very good manuverability, in high winds
> > too.
> > You should have comm with barge traffic, locks,
> > pleasure boaters, etc etc
> > Its cheap and well worth it. I'd recommend a
> water
> > proof unit, as I had to
> > buy another one when a crazy storm knocked out my
> > 100 dollar unit.
> > I had a problem with waves coming over my bow.
> THis
> > was because my motor was
> > pushing me too fast. I alway had water on the
> deck.
> > I wish I could show you
> > what little video I have, but I'm deployed now
> until
> > August. Maybe I can
> > copy some and send it to you when I return.
> > Consider catavation of the engine (coming out of
> > water) in large waves.
> > If you use a motor, there is a 300 or so mile
> > portion where resupply of fuel
> > is not available, so you will need a minimum of
> 300
> > mile range! I had to
> > carry about 50 gallons on board
> > uh....THere was a lot more....but I'm going to go
> > for now,, please absolutly
> > feel free to send me all of your questions. You
> > will need to start in
> > minneapolis unless you can portage your raft.
> > Have a recovery plan. I had a lot of police interaction so
> have
> > all of your records, ID,
> > boat liscense, etc. I got pulled over over 20
> > times, but I was 100% legal.
> > I can go over legal stuff with you if you want at
> a
> > later date too.
> > I know the coast guard called me a month or so
> > later questioning if I was OK
> > or not. > > Ok, I'm off for now. I'm in Kyrgyzstan, old
> > Russia!!! Can you believe that?

[rafter]

Old Glory
Mississippi Solo
Floating down the country
One Good Story

And another one (cant remember the name) of someone who skulled down it, and actually all the way back up the Atlantic. I have it at home but I'm not there for another month... Maybe "on the water"

I've always dreamed of writing about it, I mean with purpose, to try to sell a book but I can never get it started. So many people want to hear the whole story, maybe I should try, as there is plenty to tell, as you can imagine. My only regrets are that I didnt take enough time. I NEVER got bored. 3 or more months would be just fine, even encouraged. The more time the better. I had to push too far, too hard, and that took away from the experience. I dont know how many times I was invited to go here or there, and had to turn them down saying, "ahh yeah, I've gotta make 75 miles today and I'm only 'round 50." or watch some cool little town drift by but not have made enough. Something to think about.

[CaptainTweak]

thats some very good advice and im glad you posted it. people need to hear things like this.

[djwkd]

i would reccomend putting on something so you can fit some sort of thick polythene while your sleeping.

[djwkd]

whats the best size for styrofoam blocks for a 17' shanty boat,would these be OK?THE SIZE IS 7 3/8 INCHES BY 4 1/16 INCHES AND 1 INCH THICK

[kapnD]

I'd be looking for something a little larger...say a couple of pieces 17' long by 4'wide and probably a tad thicker than the inch you mentioned. google displacement

[djwkd]

where could i get them from?

[djwkd]

rafter,you back now,possibly post some pics and/or videos of your raft then?

[rafter]

Naw, I'm not back yet, but less than 10 days unless some rotators break down. I cant keep track of this post because they blocked the website at work but we have a coffee shop on base with internet cafe (can you believe that?) Anyway I will try to post pics as soon as possible.
The foam I used was the plain jane white home insulation stuff. I bought one sheet of 4X8 stuff (I think it may have been one inch thick? I'd have to refer to my notes back home) Anyway I was worried that it would take on water and sink so I tested a chunk in my bathtub weighted down with a rock for a month and it's closed cell and didnt take on a bit of water and floated just fine. There is no need to buy expensive blue insulation. Whats great is you can build a non water tight shell to hold it in and you would have to be broken into a million pieces to sink. Hit a sunken rock and rip out 5 feet of your bottom? you wont die, hopefully. I dont know, I Just felt safer then trying to displace water by building air tight chambers that could be punctured. Wait till you see a picture though, this thing looks hilarious and built by a seething mass of five year olds.
THere is a concern for the enviroment and its: OK now what the heck do I do with this stuff when I'm done?

I have all my figures at home but basically I had 2 4X16 foot pontoons that were only a 2X12" tall. This was fine floatation wise but way too close to the water as I'd get water on deck all of the time. This was safe as far as no chance at all of sinking but just wet and slippery deck (I guess that's unsafe as muddy miss. is very very slick when on deck) So do the math to figure out how many cubic feet that is but check this out: I had a 16X16 foot raft with like 50 gallons of fuel, 50 gallons of water, the weight of the raft itself, 2 motors, a BBq, 120 cans of beer, all the food for a month, etc etc the list goes on forever and I could float in 2 inches of water. I had basically no draft at all (with the motor pulled up) This was great as I could beach it wherever but you must worry about the wildly fluctuating river levels post Cairo. Generally I would say it was not advisable to tie up to shore in the lower mississippi as you could get stranded by lowering water levels overnight, and once my overweight beast was stuck....it was stuck. Talk to river boat captains and they would have a lot more knowledge about this then me, as I always played it safe and allowed myself 4 feet or so to play with either by sight or using my ore to check depth and then just anchoring in a slough or up a tributary for cleaner water and no current.

Welp, I'm going to check this when I get home. Good luck on anyone who's thinking about this!

[djwkd]

ok thanks what unit was it that had to get replaced on your raft? oh and when you get back...could you post some plans possibly???oh and (no dont worry this post isnt never ending) where did you get the plainjane insulation?oh and..........LOL

[Seafarer24]

I thought this would be a good place to post these links:

A Shanty Dock
http://www.simplicityboats.com/shantyrafters.html
A Yuloh to power the Shanty Dock
http://www.simplicityboats.com/yulohpage2.html

[rafter]

I'm relieved of duty and just waiting for a plane home. The insulation is from Mendards or home depot. It is big 4X8' sheets in varying thickness. My design was ultra crude and very ugly. You could take time and build something hydrodynamic (is that a real word?) and nice to look at, use broken up chunks of foam in your pontoons, and then that liquid foam stuff to fill in all of the empty space. Picture those old rock and poured cement foundations they use for barns.
I was really cheap and used OSB for decking. DONT do this. It held up for a month, but the constant wave action on the bottom would pull the little shaved pieces off, but as far as the glue that holds the sheets together, that held. I would spend extra money and use real plywood that had no problems at all. I do have video that will make you laugh and I will try to post it when I get home and back into college on the 4th.
Nate

[djwkd]

although if your going to sea in asia or indonesia (at least i think its indonesia)you want to be in an ugly boat,to lower the risks of pirates!

(check this link-http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4049)
it isnt a joke,they call them pirates but really there more of murdeerers and theives and armed robbers)although i dont know if the philipines is the worst but someone ran into two lots of pirates in a one hour trip:!::eek: :(

also,i found some liquid foam and just need to know if it causes health problems or not,as it is cheap.

[rafter]

I think you can check something called MSDS? or check online and of course the label.

[djwkd]

does liquid foam usually cause halth problems?

[SamSam]

http://blogs.walkerart.org/offcenter/index.php?s=floating

[djwkd]

http://blogs.walkerart.org/offcenter/index.php?s=floating
where on page?

[SamSam]

where on page?
Floating Temporary Autonomous Zone

[djwkd]

there isnt anything on there about liquid foam,and if it causes health problems.also....isnt rafter back now?i havent heard from him!could you put something about the construction of your raft in more detail,and possibly post some plans?

[Scott Carter]

Hi guys -
Chiming in my 2 cents - to all of you in favor of this adventure on principle, kudos to you. Also, to all of you in favor of these would-be adventurers desiging, building and piloting a safe-for-all-concerned boat down the mightiest of all American rivers, kudos to you too. I think kapnD and stuckinanoffice might agree. All of you who though, on general principle alone, choose to discourage intrepidenss and the courage to take life by the ball sack and squeeze it a little bit, I wish you nothing more than something in your life to help you see that that is what life is all about: the trip.
So to you qwist, may you be the designer, builder and pilot we all wish everyone on the waterways to be. Also, listen to woodbutcher. Experience is knowledge gained too late, and you'll do well if you consider his sage advice. Learn about locks before you enter one. Duluth also seems to have some "experience" that s/he's gained that you may not have to. As for Lobster's advice, I'd have to say that there is a Buddhist mantra that strives to always find the middle path. One path would be to go over Niagra Falls in a barrel, while an alternative path might be to never even get in the barrel. There is here, though, the chance to get in a barrel that's controllable and safe-for-all-concerned. Also, stay away from Niagra Falls altogether.
Fair seas and following winds to you, qwist.

[tskl]

Any thing you can do to help the four of you would be helpful, as a former kayaker haveing paddled that river you are talking about a lot of hard long work with a number of hot and wet days and nights. I would like to wish you the very best of luck and if I were 30 years younger I would love to go with you, but alas I am old and not a very good speller but alot smarter now.

[FlyingMonkey53]

Hey. I want to go.

[longliner45]

scott you just dont know the river ,or its traffic,,massive coal barges 4 in tandom ,pushed by 2 tugs ,,supertankers,,,drunks you name it ,I wish the guys safe passage would like to here from them ,,,longliner

[rafter]

Ok guys, I am so sorry for not getting to this earlier. I came back from my deployment and then jumped straight into school full time. I hope there are still some river dreamers out there. I will now attempt some pictures.http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/charliethepug_bucket/raft3rdflr.jpg

[rafter]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/charliethepug_bucket/stcroix.jpg

You can see I had a lot of junk. I had bbq, propane, tiki torch, nav lights (seperatly switched so I could have an anchor light) mosquito netting, a second floor, a third floor (for jumping and goofing off), a deep cycle battery and recharger and power drills for repairs and a coffee maker (french press) and a 2 burner stove and lets see....

[rafter]

Now everyone, yes laugh at my crazy "nondesign" However know this: I had communication, positive flotation to the max, and redundant manuverability. I knew what I was getting myself into. Three years later I get crazy chills to think of how dangerous some of it was and am shamed that I put my parents through it but it was so worth it. I just want people to think and plan, but possibly not over plan...hmm so tough to judge. I can see the appeal of not planning much, and I can also see the fun in planning for it's own purpose. I guess I would err on the side of safety and following regulations. Most regulations are written in blood and are in effect becuase people have died in preventable ways. All that being said, dont give up a dream, if it is one. I would love to redo this trip with a vessle that I built that was beautiful. It is safe to say my thing was just that. A thing. A raft. Good luck. I hope this inspires. Remember: Manuverability (double or triple redundant...even if it's a set of ores (you'll need at least one anyway)), Comm, draft, vision (360 degrees!!) and positive floatation were my musts.

[TCP Bob]

I have had a ball reading this thread... my thanks to every particpant but particularly the "doers".

As far as the safety issues.. I believe every boat is a rude violation of good sense and practicality! Only idiots would have one. They are all a path to financial ruin and all have dangers that are otherwise avoidable.... YOU GOTTA LOVE EM! I'll bet the raft above, floated safely by many stranded/grounded/out of fuel conventional runabouts on it's way south. People that impose on the rescue mob should feel shame regardless of their type of craft. Bad luck usualy really means bad planning.

I was born in minnesota and lived when young in Quincy Ill. Now in australia, it's too late for me. A regret.

I have an old national geographic article of a person who rafted down the river. The writer ended the story by relating how as he floated by a levee a group of young boys hailed him to ask how far he was going to which he yelled back, "till we get tired of it!" He said he then heard applause come over the water from the now distant group of boys...

I'm glad to see the 21st century hasn't beaten the dreams out of the boys!

Cheers

Bob

www.thecoastalpassage.com

[TCP Bob]

found the article in National Geographic.... it was a sept 75 issue on Mark Twain. the author rafted on the river to duplicate Huckleberry Finns little adventure.

Bob

www.thecoastalpassage.com

[Seadog Crimi]

In 1972 five college friends and I rafted the mighty Mississippi in a home-made raft we named George Raft (I'm so old I think people might even remember who he was). We had to go in April because of school so we were alone on the river and it was at near flood stage and with the exception of a few fishermen and the barges there was no other traffic.

At the college where we attended, the head of the publicity department found out what we were planning and decided to give us free promotion (I think we were hoping someone would loan us an outboard at the time). He got so excited about the trip he got other people excited, so in the end radio stations were reporting on our progress (we had to stop before noon each day to find a phone--no cellphones--to make air-time), the Chicago Tribune gave us banner headline treatment in their Metro section (April 20,1972). We thought that was all silly, but what was truly great was how we were treated by the locals on the river. First and foremost by the folks who manned the locks--great, great people. They helped us so much. But really everyone we met was genuinely interested in our journey and wanted to know if they could help. The first six times we were approached by cops we were nervous, but every time it was always that they thought it was too cool what we were doing and just wanted a closer look.

We were befriended by barge captains and given valuable, and important information about river conditions (and to never take the river for granted). People on both sides of the river showed us kindness, and just gave us stuff and told us things like to be sure and camp on the island where they were married, and do we want another drink, and stuff like that. I can't tell you how many boat club members saw us on the docks refueling or whatever and invited us in to get warm and have a brew on them. Just amazing!

We left 'George' with the marina owner in Andalusia, Illinois and I always wondered what happened to it.

We did quite a bit of planning, used Army Corps of Engineers and various agencies to find out information.

I have a singularly warm experience from my time on the Mississippi.

If I can get my son to help me I'll try to get a picture of George on the forum-I'd never be able to figure out how to do it myself.
Peace--Seadog

[rafter]

What you have taken the time to describe is just what I experienced! To the T! I had the same police interactions and so much attention that I felt bad I didnt "Use that power" for something good. Today, I keep thinking over and over again that right now I could raise some crazy amount of money by cranking up the publicity and donating it to the city of new orleans as me and a crew of people pull into port. I really want to go again someday. THe raft trip got me into sailing, a sport I love! I have so many pictures I should try to get more up.
Actually what is interesting is how many people try this each year. I should go around and get a list together of who's done this that we can still find. I've heard so many crazy stories it blows my mind. In my research phase I even found a photo of a car (like a model t!) with the drive train hooked up to a prop, floating on something, and that's how they went!! All the way to NOLA. What is even crazier (to me) is the people that canoe or kayak it! I went through some areas where I just held my breath and hoped my motor would push through. Places where I felt true fear like I didnt even know I could feel. Fear like I hadnt felt, at one point I was curled up in a ball on the floor of it thinking I was going to get hit by lightning taht was striking all over the place and here's me in a soaking wet raft 15 feet taller than anything around me for hundreds of yards! Yup...someday!!

[Seadog Crimi]

Look at how nice she rode in the water!

[Seadog Crimi]

I have no idea why my picture of my raft is so small and rafter's is so big, but just to clear up possible confusion, we weren't tiny little midgets, we were regular sized people.

[yon8raps]

Man, I'm sorry I found this thread a year too late. Over the fourth of July last year, 2006, two other guys and myself, plus 1 dog, built and floated our raft almost a hundred miles down the Sacramento River from Princeton to Knights Landing. This was a trip I'd been kicking around for years, and very seriously for the year leading up. I think we got drunk enough on the Fourth the year before to decide to do it and make it stick. We made a modular raft of 4' x 6' heavy duty pallets (for shipping axles), chunks of 2x4 to tie them together, floated on 55 gal blue plastic barrels from the soda plant. The whole thing was about 92 square feet, broke in half as we launched it, and freakin' ROCKED! I still have queasy moments remembering how easy it would have been to have died out there (Snag City) but wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
Back then, I searched a lot for people's stories of similar trips but didn't find too much. Rafter, You're a stud! I encourage anyone to go do whatever it is they dream about. Go Now, and go Cheap!
Anyone wanting details on construction or things Not to do, lemme know. N8

[rafter]

I will try to get a picture up of me, so it doesnt seem like I'm putting someone elses pic up!! haha I just realized that. I only have three scanned pictures out of a hundred or so, so I'll see what we've got here...
Nate

[rafter]

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/charliethepug_bucket/?action=view&current=acme.jpg

The is Derek on the left and myself at the Acme oyster shop in NOLA after the trip. I went and bought some new clothes and shaved and we hit the town!! He rented a Toyota Camry and drove from Duluth to Donaldsonville, LA non stop, picked me up and we partied in New Orleans for a couple nights and drove 24 hours straight back home that night because I had to work 5 hours after I got home. Whew! Talk about cutting it close.http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/charliethepug_bucket/?action=view&current=endofstorm.jpg

This is a funny picture because I didnt mean for it to be so dramatic but it is what it is. It was such a nice sun set and I never get to grow a beard so I wanted a picture of it! ahah. So, that's that.

[Lancerbye]

For what its worth. Read a lot more books , have a lot more beer and wait for this foolish feeling to pass.

[djwkd]

I have no idea why my picture of my raft is so small and rafter's is so big, but just to clear up possible confusion, we weren't tiny little midgets, we were regular sized people.


Just click on the picture and it enlarges!

[djwkd]

woodbutcher...i agree, i had about the same thoughts on this topic. i can't believe that people would actually consider doing this, not only are they risking their own lives but also the lives of others transiting the river, if they think they can't afford a real boat now, wait til they get hit with the bills for the liabillity for the damages that they are going to cause. that is if they even survive at all.

dreaming of doing it is ok, but don't actually consider going thru with it.

the people who are actually considering doing this would probably be better off going over Niagra falls in a barrel, that way the only person that they kill will be themselves.


I disaggree with you,but agree with woodbutcher.You need to do a lot of reasearch and compare that to your raft plan,but the floating neutrinos did the same thing,down the missisippi (im not from america so i cant spell it-thats my excuse LOL) Go on www.floatingneutrinos.com and go on the raft page (not raft building) and click on the vilma B.thats the one that went down.

from what ive heard,you probably will need an engine on the missisipii-but any calmer rivers i would say don't bother-you would be wasting your money,but on the missisipii it coul;d be the difference between life and death!

[Frosty]

Mi -double s -i double s -double p-i MISSISSIPPI. No I didnt look it up I knew it.

And I agree with that bloke what said you must be out of your tree to go bouncing down the dangerous river in a raft.

Probably the same people that lay down in the middle of the road on the white line. They say its a rush --yeah if you live.

What do they call that?

[djwkd]

the lying in the middle of the road-idiocy,the thing in the raft down the misissippi (i spelt it right i think!)-following your dreams,but its extremely dangerous.If you research into it for AT LEAST 6 months,its pretty safe!

[VKRUE]

I love the idea of traveling down the M_I_Crooked Letter_Crooked letter_I_Crooked Letter_Crooked Letter_I_Hump Back_Hump Back_I :D

I've been tossing around the idea too, for some time now... in a boat though, not a raft.

I've not read every single post here on this thread but, have to agree with everybody who stress' saftey and research. One can indeed loose his or her life on that river. In some places that river is so deep that it can hide entire trees (large ones) in it's current and send one of these things straight up through your hull or raft. Now this sort of thing might not happen every day... but it happens ! That's a neat little raft you have there Rafter...> http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/charliethepug_bucket/?action=view&current=raft3rdflr.jpg but, I'd hate to think of a 75' long tree trunk with a diameter of 2 or 3 feet plunging up through the middle of my raft and taking out my beer cooler in one hit ! Just imagine this for a moment (never mind the beer cooler)...:rolleyes: The tree trunk doesn't just plow up & thru the bottom of your raft but, instead is possibly pulled back down by an under current... and you raft is stuck on this 2 or 3 foot diameter log.... and going under with it :eek:

Many have rafted this river I'm sure. I, myself, might even do it someday but, one should do his research and be aware (VERY AWARE) of the dangers involved.
At the very least... consider what the absolute worst thing that could happen might be and ask yourself..."can I deal with this ?"

[SamSam]

Miss-iss-ippi

[alaskamokaiman]

Lets get her right its M I S S I S S I PP in your I

We will never forget neither will Mrs. Cobb should have seen her face in 1963.

[djwkd]

Mississippi?

[djwkd]

Don't worry i used look cover wright check :rolleyes:

[djwkd]

qwist-have u Done your journey now?

[djwkd]

in about 4 months i will (hopefully) be rafting down the tyne! You'll be pleased to know that this post inspired me!

[djwkd]

Could anybody give me any advice for this?

[Lancerbye]

Remember free advice is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. LOL

[Lancerbye]

And opinions are like as_h_les. Everybody has one.

[VKRUE]

Lancerbye:
You sir, have not been around here very long... I don't know just how long you've been "watching" this forum before actually becoming a member but, your comments:

"Remember free advice is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. LOLYesterday 04:19 PM"

"And opinions are like as_h_les. Everybody has one.Yesterday 11:29 PM"
seem to me to be really unwarrented. As far as I know, most people here are more than generous and many are "very" knowledgable. This thread (if you have actually read all of it) is a good example of the kind of people here and the thought & effort that they put into someones questions or ideas.

Djwkd:
A quick look around the threads and posts has shown me that your on the right track... I noticed that you've been inquiring about this for sometime now. Keep up your perseverence, do your homework and you will do this thing as you wish... sooner or later.
Heck, if I was anywhere near you I seriously consider helping but, I'm not and I have other responsibilities right now.

[djwkd]

Thankyou VKRUE.

You do have a point about lancerbye.
i would just like to say i have contacted the authorities about WETHER OR NOT I NEED PERMISSION for this journey-not if i have it granted as i doubt i will have enough details so far.

I sincerely regret stopping building my raft for the winter and missing many posts on (especially)this and other threads.

Thankyou all for your help,dominic.

[djwkd]

They told me to contact port of tyne authority:rolleyes:

[djwkd]

I still havent though-even though i know i need to!!!

[djwkd]

i will asap,but as the 'limit' is fast approaching,the raft isn't as far as it should be to keep on schedule!

[pep_so_dent]

Hi. I dream of building a raft and going down the Mississippi, but never will. I was in Cape Girardeau, Missiouri this weekend and the river looked fairly swift to me. Also there was high water flood marks on the flood walls- I can't imagine that there's that much water in the world! I suppose it can get pretty dangerous.

I would like to see some of you get together some ideas and design and build an "ideal" river raft and start a thread in the forum here about it- with plenty of pics. Maybe it would use 55 gal drums for floatation. I suppose it would need to be simple to build, pretty rugged yet fairly low cost and would need an outboard. Hope to see a story with plenty of pics about it.

[djwkd]

pep_so_dent,
if you dream of going down the mississippi,but can't,don't.
Go down another river like i am going to,don't give up on a dream,even if it can't be exactly the way you want-don't give up.

[djwkd]

I know i've previously asked this queation but,qwist,have u completed your trip yet?

[qwist04]

I know i've previously asked this queation but,qwist,have u completed your trip yet?

wow this is probably one of the longest running threads i have ever been a part of. I unfortunately never made the trip -- i made the original post as a senior in high school and once college started my summers have been busy with internships, etc. i came back to this thread because i am once again planning to do it... but not until summer of 2009. I have one year of school left, going to work for one year and then I'll be head out for the Mighty Mississippi.

The bright side, this means I have a lot of time to plan it out. And originally I was planning on just going from St. Paul/Minneapolis to St. Louis. With some research, I am tempted to traverse even further -- perhaps to New Orleans -- but I won't decide on that for a while.

This thread has a great wealth of information, which will help me as I plan out the design of the raft. I'm sure I'll be back asking questions and learning more about the trips people on this forum have taken.

Thanks for taking an interest. Tell me about the raft you're going to take down the Tyne. Dimensions? Are you paddling it? Going with or without a motor? Sounds like an equally fun adventure.

[qwist04]

Since I'm back on here and thinking about it, these are my latest plans for a raft. Everything is very tentative.

The raft will be modeled (unsurprisingly) after the Neutrinos' Vilma B. Two pontoons at 4' wide, 18' long, 1' deep, filled with Styrofoam. With cross pieces and a plywood cover, total dimensions will be about 16' wide by 18' long. Intending to fit four people on the raft, with a small shelter used mostly for storage.

Here's the catch -- I don't want to do the whole trip with an outboard engine. I'm tentatively thinking of rigging a bicycle to a propeller (probably a large model airplane prop). I know there have been a few pedal-powered boat threads, but I have not found any information on anyone building a pedal-powered raft. Is this a bad idea? Is there too much drag for this to effective on a raft? Are the dimensions on the raft too big for a pedal-powered prop?

With four people on the raft, everyone could take turns doing 30 minute shifts, so the pace of the biking would be pretty quick, I would imagine.

At this point, I'm not too worried about the technicalities of rigging the bike/propeller. Just trying to find out if the idea is feasible.

By the way, I do plan on having a 5hp-9.9hp outboard motor as a backup.

[kengrome]

For economy I would use surplus 5 gallon polyethylene drums to make my pontoons. They are almost 2 feet wide and they are 3 feet long each. Fasten 6 of them together end-to-end for each pontoon, and use two pontoons per side to give you the 4 foot wide floats you're planning to use on each side of the raft.

One good thing about polyethylene barrels is that they are individually replaceable if they get damaged. Another is the fact that they are relatively cheap since lots of liquids come in them and are basically 'leftover containers' and sold cheaply when the contents are removed. They also flex and bounce off things without damage most of the time, which may come in handy when you bang into things in your raft.

Sorry of this was already mentioned previously, I haven't read the entire thread yet ... :)

[BarendGrobler]

All you guys talking about how adventurous it would be rafting down some river, it sounds quite nice (kinda like driving miss daisy!)
Have a look at a book called "THE KON-TIKI EXPEDITION" written by THOR HEYERDAHL about 6 guys rafting across the Pacific Ocean!
Now there's a real adventure and there is at least a real goal: ending your adventure on some Polynesian Island!
:D

[Rick Willoughby]

Since I'm back on here and thinking about it, these are my latest plans for a raft. Everything is very tentative.

The raft will be modeled (unsurprisingly) after the Neutrinos' Vilma B. Two pontoons at 4' wide, 18' long, 1' deep, filled with Styrofoam. With cross pieces and a plywood cover, total dimensions will be about 16' wide by 18' long. Intending to fit four people on the raft, with a small shelter used mostly for storage.

Here's the catch -- I don't want to do the whole trip with an outboard engine. I'm tentatively thinking of rigging a bicycle to a propeller (probably a large model airplane prop). I know there have been a few pedal-powered boat threads, but I have not found any information on anyone building a pedal-powered raft. Is this a bad idea? Is there too much drag for this to effective on a raft? Are the dimensions on the raft too big for a pedal-powered prop?

With four people on the raft, everyone could take turns doing 30 minute shifts, so the pace of the biking would be pretty quick, I would imagine.

At this point, I'm not too worried about the technicalities of rigging the bike/propeller. Just trying to find out if the idea is feasible.

By the way, I do plan on having a 5hp-9.9hp outboard motor as a backup.

You could plan on a fit individual pumping out 150W for a couple of hours at a time. With careful design you could get some useful motion with this power level. I have not analysed your proposed hulls but I suspect they are not easily driven.

If you actually want to make useful progress under pedal power I would suggest you determine likely total displacement, design the optimum boat and then look at how you can get close to that with available materials.

You can make some nifty multiple station drive arrangements so all four could pedal at once driving a common shaft. The best I have seen of this are raced in South Africe and they hold about 8kts. I have attached a photo of Vel'eau 12. I believe it has 12 cycle stations, 6 aside, and solar power. You could sit sideways like this with simple bike chains onto the shaft to swing a decent prop. With 18ft hulls you might hold over 5 kts with all four cranking steadily at an all-day pace of say 120W. Rotate meals, plenty of water and leave the outboard motor behind to reduce weight. This would be an adventure and you do your bit to leave a little more oil in the ground.

Rick W.

[qwist04]

Thanks for your responses, Ken and Rick. I planned to base the raft on the Floating Neutrinos' because it seems like really knew what they were doing. Information about the Vilma B can be found here (http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/Other%20Rafts/construction_of_the_vilma_b_for_.htm). I have considered barrels, too, but I was under the assumption that this would be less efficient than the pontoons. Seems like this was a wrong assumption? I do like the fact that barrels would be able to fixed/replaced way easier than a pontoon.

The multiple station drive arrangement is an excellent idea. I am unsure how I would design and build it; might you know of somewhere I can find plans for something along those lines?

Also, if anyone could point me to other raft plans that might be more efficient than the Vilma B, I would greatly appreciate it.

Now, time to read through the 21 page thread on the human powered boat.

Thanks again.


Here's a picture of the Vilma B in progress, which was the same dimensions as I gave in my last post:
http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/images/plank%5B1%5D.jpg

[Rick Willoughby]

If you make an estimate of the overall weight of the boat and items you want to transport then I can do some hull designs that would be easily driven and very simple to make from ply.

Making the drive stations is not too hard if you have basic engineering skills like welding or brazing. The cheapest way to get parts is to get hold of some old bikes and start from there. These will provide bottom bracket, pedals, chainring, chain and sprockets.

If you can keep the weight to about 1 tonne then 4 fit pedallers could make surprising progress.

The boat design could be refined based on the building materials you want to use. Your budget will also come into play. You never know you might get some sponsorship if you stress the eco friendly aspect of the adventure.

Rick W.

[djwkd]

I'm going without a motor.The dimensions are 22'x11'.

It's sorta odd that your using nearly the exact same design as i am,and basing it on the same raft.I think the vilma b is a faveourite of non-barrel raft builders because it's a simple design,and can be easily extended.

I'm planning to turn the heels of the bike i am using into a paddle wheel,with the rear wheel being attached to an extended chain (3 together?!).

Does this sound like a bad idea?I know it mightn't be incredibly efficient,but i might make two.Depends what you guys think!

Thanks again,dominic.

[Rick Willoughby]

Dominic
There is nothing inherently inefficient with a paddle wheel in smooth water. They went out of fashion on ocean going vessels because they did not cope as well with sea conditions as a prop. They are probably more efficient for shallow water operation compared with say a jet - particularly at low power level. I have attached some photos of modern examples.

You need to keep it big though so it operates at low slip. I would go for a diameter that you just put cranks on rather than gearing up. In fact if the boat is slow then actually gear down so it goes slower than your cadence.

I also think you would be better off making hulls with pointy bow and stern rather than the bluff ends of Vilma B. The section can be still be rectangular so it is easy to build. This will give less resistance with the narrow sections on entry and exit.

If you make an estimate of the total weight I can give you designs for optimum rectangular section hulls.

Also how many people will be used to power the raft. Will it be just one or will there be more.

Rick W.

[qwist04]

If you make an estimate of the overall weight of the boat and items you want to transport then I can do some hull designs that would be easily driven and very simple to make from ply.

Making the drive stations is not too hard if you have basic engineering skills like welding or brazing. The cheapest way to get parts is to get hold of some old bikes and start from there. These will provide bottom bracket, pedals, chainring, chain and sprockets.

If you can keep the weight to about 1 tonne then 4 fit pedallers could make surprising progress.

The boat design could be refined based on the building materials you want to use. Your budget will also come into play. You never know you might get some sponsorship if you stress the eco friendly aspect of the adventure.

Rick W.

I truly appreciate your help. With some quick estimates on weight it seems like I can easily keep everything under 1 tonne. The sponsorship idea is something we are considering; we're also thinking about doing the trip as a benefit so we could try to get companies to donate things we need. People could pledge money to an organization for every 50 miles we go, or something along those lines.

Anyway, I'll put together a more specific weight estimate pretty soon.


djwkd -
It is very interesting that we are considering very similar trips on a similar raft (just on a different river). I'm definitely going to go with Rick's advice about the pointy bow and stern. With about 1700 miles of pedaling to do if I go to NOLA, I want the best efficiency possible in a raft. It will be fun to compare our trips when they actually happen.

[Rick Willoughby]

I have attached a lines plan for hulls of a 23ft catamaran. Each hull is 2ft wide and raft overall beam is about 9ft. This boat is designed for 1 tonne and speed of 5 kts.

Two average males could hold 4.6kts at an all day pace. Three people could get up to 5.4kts. Four people will not do much better, only 5.6kts. That is because it is optimised for 5kts so wave drag gets significant above this. It would do better with 4 people if the design speed was higher.

The hulls could be simplified even more but this is just what Godzilla produced for a square chine and length constraint. It is to give you an idea of what pointy ends look like.

The paddle wheel idea is a good one but you need to think big with this but make it light. Think in terms of it sitting between the two hulls toward the stern. Blades say 6ft wide and 6 to 8" deep on a wheel about 3ft in diameter. This should work OK at normal cadence.

The hulls could be made from light material, maybe 3/8" weatherproof ply, but fill them with expanding foam and add some rubbing strips to give them impact and wear resistance.

Rick W.

[djwkd]

Thankyou for your advice rick,i will go with your advice.I now know how to bend wood so i can scrap the bicycle wheel idea!So glad!

Qwist-the difference between our trips is that mine is of roughly 10 miles-yours is more than 100 times that!:P

[djwkd]

No response?!oh and-i think it's this theread-guppy-could oyu post a larger picture of your avatar?

[tomtom2]

Is anybody familiar with the fishing rafts found along the wolf river in central wisconsin? These are small docks, usually no larger than 14x14, supported by 55 gallon drums. On top of a wooden platform are small shacks, some simply thrown together to keep out rain, others resembling small houses more than shacks(one that i'm familiar with has bunkbeds for 5, cabinets, a large counter space, and an outhouse). These are used primarily for fishing off of during spring and summer, and are towed/pushed by flatbottom boat to a location along the river shore, where steel pipes are sunk into the mud to hold them in place, along with ropes attached to trees. They may be used elsewhere, but to my knowledge ive only heard of or seen them used along the wolf river. I'll try and get some pics up if possible.

If anybody knows what I'm talking about, would this type of raft, possibly enlarged, make a suitable vessel for going down the mississippi? I was thinking of something about 18x12 feet, propelled using push poles similar to skiffs one might see in bogs or salt flats. For navigating the locks and dams, I would mount an outboard to the back for greater maneuverability, however on open sections of river and in situations where I wonbt need to avoid barges, running the engine non stop seemed a waste of fuel. Any thoughts on this?

[djwkd]

That should be OK but i'm not at all familiar with that river,being in england.I don't know if you've read the whole thread but raft-builders (including myself)favour the designs of the floating neutrinos-http://www.floatingneutrinos.com this is one of the best raft sites because it has pics of the build of 10 rafts,not just one like Miss Rockaway Armada- http://www.missrockaway.org

[qwist04]

Rick,

Thanks so much for the help. Sorry for the delayed response: I've been out of town for the past couple weeks.

djwkd - Regarding length of our trips... touche. But that's only if I do decide to go the whole way. I still may only do Minneapolis to St. Louis. Still considerably more than 10 miles, but not the 1800 miles it takes from Minneapolis to NOLA.

[mydauphin]

Buy a pontoon boat with a motor. YOu think your on a raft, but it offers stabilty, power, perhaps a head. You can get some used ones fairly cheap and just hang an old little outboard. But remembers the Miss is full of barges some 1000 ft long being pushed by big towboats that make alot of wash.
Be safe, have fun... Need a father figure to come along....

[djwkd]

The problem with that,however is that A)Your then BUYING a boat and with it skipping the fun of building one and
B)Its a boat-these can sunk much easier than a boat So long as the raft hull is partioned inside for the floatation.If you are using spray-foam there is no need to do that.

[Atirra]

Me and five of my friends are wanting to build a craft of one sort or another and take it from Winona down somewhere near the end of the Mississippi. We don't have a whole lot of experience, however, and I don't know exactly what the best kind of boat would be to make. We were thinking about a raft 30 by 15 feet floating on a lot of barrels with little cabins for sleeping and what not. Does anyone have any suggestions or anything as to how to make this work nicely? And yes, I know we're insane.

[plexique]

This forum was most useful when we set out to build a raft to go down the Tennessee, so I wanted to share our experience. It took about 2 days to pick up supplies, and about 20-30 hours of work overall to build, with 2-3 people working. The building of and the floating of can be seen at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=17953&id=791868831

RAFT MATERIALS:
- 8x13 ft platform of throw-away pine slabs - they were being burned at a timber yard and we got them for free. Not very even, but since one of the surfaces is flat, it did just fine. Surprisingly strong, even at about 1-in thickness supported our weight because of the supports underneath. Supporting it was 6 2x4s running cross-wise, every 29 in. We used screws instead of nails for precision and sturdiness.

- They ran 29 in apart so that we could save weight and time in constructing something to hold the 10 plastic 30-gallon drums - each one went between the support 2x4s, and went a little higher still because we left about 5 in slits between the very side boards on each side. This meant we didn't have to built a casing or cage for the barrels - they went right up and stayed there, and all we did was tie them to the raft with 150-lb strength nylon clothsline. 10x30 gallons gave us 300 gallons - by estimates, but not by calculation, enough to float up to 1200 lbs at about half-submersion, which proved to be correct. The raft weight 500-600lbs, and held 3 people and gear easily. The design was such that if one of the barrels took on water, we could untie its rope and take it off right on the water and empty and/or seal it up without taking out others. We estimated that 7-8 barrels would keep the floorboards above water entirely, also proved correct.

- We opted not to build a sail as that would have required boat registration, so instead we took one of those kids' four-wheel pedaled toy cars and converted the whole thing into both a paddling system and a rudder system.

- with side boards going up 4.5 ft roughly in the middle of the raft we built a small bracket for our tarp lean-to that could go toward the front or the back or both - it rained every night and if we also tarped up the side where the wind was blowing the rain it, we stayed absolutely dry. we never slept on dry land because it was that comfortable

FLOATING DOWN TENNESSEE

is practically impossible - the current is very slow and the headwinds always push you back. it would have been easier to float upstream, as we found out trying to make it ontime to a small park to hand off the raft. with the paddle system and the oars we made about 4 miles a day max, although we didn't work too hard.

WHAT WE WISH WE HAD

a fire pit. a simple deep wok or a shallow metal drum would have done the job. and some low collapsible chairs - would have helped with paddling and made it more comfortable.

WHAT YOU'LL NEED IN ADDITION

Regulations require life vests, and a white light and the green/red lights ($25 and up for both) if you wish to float at night (good idea to have anyway), and at least 20 ft rope for the docks. Strongly recommend an anchor, and a pirate flag;)

TRANSPORTATION

Unless you want to reassemble the raft on the river, build it to be no more than 8.5-9 ft wide - you can strap this onto a flat bed or an auto transport rentable from Uhaul and take it on the highway without getting pulled over.

CONSIDERATIONS

We wanted to build this as much from scrap as possible and for a week or two were on the lookout for parts - so have a plan. But don't stick to it too hard - be flexible in your design so you can work with what you have. We were not able to get any barrels donated to us, but we only spent about a week looking for them. Apparently if you have a soft drink manufacturer neaerby you can usually get their discarded ones. We found distilleries to be more stingy - Jack Daniels actually offered to sell us their barrels from the gift shop. Be aware that if you get used barrels they may have contained toxic liquids - toxic to both the river and your skin/eye. Keep it simple, and have fun - if it takes longer, so be it.

If you have questions, feel free to email me at plexique atthe yahoo periddot com

[Atirra]

Do you have any suggestions for attaching a motor? We were hoping to maybe even try and get an electric one and solar panels.

[quist]

I have done a bit of canoeing and kayaking on the Missouri ansd Missisippi Rivers. One of the suprising things is how a barge can sneak up on you. Another surprise is how big there wake is.
I attached a review mirror from a semi truck to my canoe so I can glance back continously to see what might be bearing down on me.
I can be a furious struggle getting to the shore befor a barge gets to you.

[rafter]

The dangers get even more once you pass Baton Rouge and head towards NOLA as now you are dealing with quieter and faster ships (ocean going ships) that travel at 12 knots vs 3-5 knots. I had a rearview mirror and it worked pretty well. YOu wouldnt believe this, but just the effort of turning your head gets to be too much after a while.

[djwkd]

Hey-did rafter ever post any plans of his raft on here???

[djwkd]

Come on-let this thread rise it's head again!!!Ready for Qwist's 09 trip!!!Shake a leg!!!!LOL

[djwkd]

@Plexique-Facebook link isn't working.

[djwkd]

Ah-you haven't been on since you posted that.

[jrob]

Would a flat-bottomed scow be a suitable craft for traversing this river? Or would the 'deck' not have enough clearance from the water? I'm concerned about mainly about waves coming over the side.

[rwatson]

It depends on how high the deck is from the water - whats the "standard height" of a flat bottom socw?

[jrob]

The scows that I have seen around here are usually around 2 feet high.

[Raftman1979]

One of the most important things you'll need is propulsion. Paddles won't do it unless your "raft" is nothing more than a couple of canoes tied together. If you can't paddle it fast enough to get out of the way of the barges when you need to, you'll wind up in a dangerous place QUICKLY.

DO bring an outboard motor, but you don't have to run it all the time. Make sure it's a good runner that'll start up cold with no hassles, and have a good trolling motor for standby. When you must get out of the way of a barge, have someone get the trolling motor going immediately, while you're starting the outboard. That way in case you have trouble starting the outboard, you're not totally screwed.

Get navigational charts from the Army Corps of Engineers and don't be without them. And do lots of online research first too, before you even start building the raft. Study other peoples' trips, other people's raft designs, and most importantly, study the river. Research locks and dams, wing dams, the Chain of Rocks bypass canal near St. Louis, etc.

[djwkd]

w. i came back to this thread because i am once again planning to do it... but not until summer of 2009. I have one year of school left, going to work for one year and then I'll be head out for the Mighty Mississippi.


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... You doing it this year?

[Raftman1979]

I was gonna build the raft in the summer of 2009 and make the trip in 2010 but it ain't looking like I'm gonna be able to get the time off, due to the economy. I'm a long-haul truck driver, so I don't have much time unless I turn in my truck and take a month or two off, and that just ain't a smart thing to do with the economy the way it is. Until the economy starts to recover, my raft trip is on hold.

[djwkd]

:(
Big shame...
Are you the same person as Qwist04 then?

[BacShortly]

Just do it right.........

backshortly.wordpress.com (http://bacshortly.wordpress.com)

bacshortly.com

[BacShortly]

I didn't mean for last note to be so short, but I had a call (I'm a fireman) and had to bug-out.

Anyway, floating/boating/rafting, just doing the Mississippi has always been in the back of my head - after raising a family and at the end of a career - I'm finally going to put my feet up and do it.

I'll keep notes as I go, you can find them at the above website, BacShortly.com

Thanks

Tom

[Raftman1979]

No. I'm not Quist04.

I called the boss, told him to switch me back to "full time" status. My raft trip is post-poned. Instead of building a raft, I'm investing in ammunition. It's kind of reckless to plan something like that, not knowing if we will still be a free country next year, not knowing if I'll even have a job to return to after Obama taxes my employer out of business.

[djwkd]

Hey Bac- Sounds cool!I'm reading it all now :D

[BacShortly]

Why not?

Been up and down the road, and then through a family and career - why not give the river a shot - wanted to for a long, long time, and now I'm finding (making) some time. No matter what you do it takes an effort - a little research, choosing a sound/right vessel, and finding the route - I'm keeping alot of notes on the effort, and as most trying to do it in the most cost effective manner. The only thing in question now is whether the wife will come get me in NO or not, if she even answers the phone......

Looking forward to the peace, a rare opportunity - I'll make the most of it for sure and notes along the way.

[mons]

My buddy and I are going to raft the river from Minneapolis to NOLA. I know we'd be better off in the spring but due to school, we only have time in July and Aug of '09. I read through this forum and I's been a HUGE help so far.

Our design is much like refter's design, but we may have a 3rd pontoon in the middle. And we're going green on this one. We will power the rig with a few trolling motors and bicycle generators. Passably even some solar power, if the budget is forgiving of coarse. And we may have to alter the design to lighten the load.

If anyone has some advice, let me know. I'd love to hear it!

What about licensing in all the different states. Do you have to register in each state along the way? Do lock keepers charge to go through the locks?

[Raftman1979]

Want my advice? Grab a battery, any car battery will do for testing purposes, and an automatic battery charger with the gauge on it that tells you how many amps the charger is feeding the battery. Make sure the battery is fully charged, then hook up JUST ONE trolling motor and run it in water. has to be in water, a 55 gallon drum full of water, bath tub, whatever. Watch the amp gauge on the battery charger jump WAY up when you turn on that trolling motor.

Now try pedaling a bicycle with one of those generators and see how much harder it is to pedal when you're only powering a tiny little flashlight bulb. There's no way in hell you're gonna generate enough power to run a trolling motor with bicycle generators.

Now take a $100 solar panel and see how well THAT powers a trolling motor. You'd be lucky if the damn thing even spins the prop when it's OUT of the water.

Tree hugger technology is in it's infancy. It's just not possible to be "green" and power a raft down the river with enough POWER to not only GO, but go fast enough to get the hell out of the way of a barge, or to fight a headwind, or both at the same time.

If you want to be "green", you can use solar panels to maintain a charge in a deep cycle marine battery that you ONLY use for the red, green and white navigation lights required at night, and so you can charge your cell phones or maybe run a laptop with an inverter for an hour or so a day. But you will NOT get enough power to run a trolling motor from solar panels or any kind of bicycle generators.

I have been told that on the majority of the trip, the winds blow north, against the current, so sail power is not a reliable option either. If I ever make my trip, I'm going to use something like a sideways "keel" mounted on the front of the raft (not the back) that is mounted on a hinge, so if I hit a submerged object, it can flip back under the raft, but when the wind is blowing against me, the board will stick straight down in the water and kind of "grab" the river current and pull me along with the current, against the wind. That's about as "green" as you can be, without running an engine.

I do plan on having some power on my raft, but not to run continuously, just because of gas prices. I think it's STUPID to get out there without some kind of adequate power so you can fire up the engine and quickly get out of the way of a barge that "came out of nowhere", or to turn around and go up-stream a ways in case there happens to be a bunch of hot chicks in bikinis on shore calling me over or something.

As far as I know, you do NOT need to license a raft, if it's homemade. But you DO have to meet certain safety requirements. Like I mentioned before, if you drop anchor behind a wing dam or somewhere other than completely out of the water or in a marina, you need to run mooring lights, which I believe is simply a white light above the stern, visible from 180 degrees, from a mile away or something. This can be done "green" with an LED stern light. If you're under-way in the dark, you need the red and green bow lights, which you can also accomplish with LEDs. (A day's worth of solar power will certainly run these LEDs all night.)

You need to have a fire extinguisher if you have a gas engine, or just have gasoline on board, or if you have a propane grill or something. You have to have a life jacket for every passenger, (I don't think you have to WEAR it, just HAVE it) plus a throw-able flotation device. You also need a whistle or a horn that's pretty loud, .. I'm probably forgetting something, but this is a forum so someone else will probably add whatever I missed.

For FISHING, you need a license. Here's where it's kind of strange. You need a license for at least ONE of the two states that border the river. Say you're on the stretch between Illinois and Missouri. You need a fishing license in at least ONE of those two states, but that license becomes invalid when you get down south where you're between Tennessee and Arkansas. Then you need a license from one of those two states.

Lock operators do not charge for locking through, and they are required by law to let even a canoe pass through the locks, however they do grant commercial vessels priority over pleasure craft, so you may have to wait sometimes. I've never gone through locks but I've researched this whole thing. They say there's a rope attached to a bell you're supposed to pull to notify the lock operator that you're there, but most people say to carry a marine radio and get a navigational chart from the Army Corps of Engineers before you go so you know what channel they're on at the locks.

Spring is probably not the best time to start your trip cuz it's still cold up there in MN, and in the spring, here in the midwest we get all the rain and stuff, the rivers are high and the current will be fast.

I'd recommend you check out the website http://www.bearnakedrafting.com/index.htm

Two college kids made the trip last summer and if you e-mail Nate, you'll find he's intelligent and helpful.

[mons]

You're probably right about the gas motor for emergencies.

From what I've read, a guy can get a significant amount of power from a bike generator.

http://www.mattshaver.com/bikegen/index.htm
Check out the specs on the bottom of the page. I'm going to make a generator like that one and also play with the gear ratios to possibly get even more power.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Rick Willoughby]

You're probably right about the gas motor for emergencies.

From what I've read, a guy can get a significant amount of power from a bike generator.

http://www.mattshaver.com/bikegen/index.htm
Check out the specs on the bottom of the page. I'm going to make a generator like that one and also play with the gear ratios to possibly get even more power.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep everyone posted.

That is not your average bike generator.

If you shopped around for a really good generator you could find one that will give around 90% efficiency.

A male of reasonable fitness and not too many years can produce about 130W continuously, If you were doing it every day, you would find after a couple of weeks you could sustain maybe 150W.

Your idea of having a decent battery and thruster is not too bad. The motor will be about 75% efficient. A lead acid battery about 80% overall. So you are throwing away a lot of energy for the ability to have burst power from the thruster but it will get you out of trouble.

There is nothing wrong with a simple pedal power system but you are playing with very little power and need to design well to get the best from it. A big prop geared properly can produce around 200lb thrust with peak pedal power but it would not get you going very fast. You need to design the drive system to suit the boat and the boat needs to be optimised for the low power level.

Rick W

[mons]

I'm going to try the trolling motor idea and if it turns out well, I will try to ad solar power. It would really help out as long as the trolling motor had enough power to push it. I'm also going to add a direct bike powered prop and maybe a bike powered generator.

Does anyone know how much current a 55lb thrust trolling motor generally draws?

[gonzo]

You need a fair amount of power to stay out of the way. Tows have right of way, which means that you have to move. The current is an average of 4Kt, about 4.4 mph. In some places, like Memphis, the record is 21 mph. One of the consequences is that if you miss and entrance, there is no way back. The turbulence from the tows will affect you for about a mile behind. At half a mile, on a sailboat with an inboard diesel, it was hard to steer a course. The boat would turn 90' before I could correct. Also, the wakes on the up river tows can be over six feet. Once you get past Baton Rouge, there are no stops until New Orleans, at least not for small vessels. Also, you are required to carry and monitor two VHF radios and to call Traffic Control to get a number assigned. Then, you have to obey instructions for maneuvering. You won't be able to do it in a barge. The USCG will consider you a hazard to navigation and get you out of the way. There may be a fine too. Higher up the river, if you manage to stay clear the USCG will let you alone. However, if commercial traffic complain, they'll go after you .

[mons]

What did you mean by "won't be able to do it in a barge?" We'll basically be in a pontoon. Why does a guy need two radios?

Thanks for the input gonzo!

[gonzo]

You need to radios to monitor channels 16 and 68. That is the law. When you register with Traffic Control they will assign you a number. Then they keep track of you, like air traffic controllers do. Also, other ships will tell you their intentions and you have to respond and agree to the maneuvers. For example, a ship may be coming off a berth and will tell you to standby. This means you need to be able to maneuver and have enough power to at least stop against the current. If you can't comply the Coast Guard considers you a hazard to navigationa and will remove you.

[mons]

Would it be wise to cruise at night to save time if there was always someone manning the raft?

[gonzo]

There are no lit markers in the river. Tows use huge searchlights to find their way.

[mons]

I am reading up on solar panels and trolling motors, but I can't find how much current or power a trolling motor draws, say a general 55lb thrust motor. Does anyone know?

[Frosty]

Are you listening to Gonzo? he lives there.

A trolling motor against a river?

2 radios because its the law. He just told you.

Can you imagine navigating the river and you come across some kids on a barge pontoon thing and one is pedaling like hell to keep the nav lights on.

I hope you get arrested before you cause a serious accident.

Trying to get out of someones way in a fast flowing river is difficult, but then you dont know that ---yet

[mons]

I am listening to Gonzo and making sure that I understand completely

The trolling motor will be for general travel down the river. I will also have a gas motor for emergency/safety. Although I'm not entirely sure what size motor would be best. Any thoughts?

The human body can put out around 400 watts of power (depending on the rider). A well built bike-generator can harvest at least 125-150 watts. The navigation lights that I looked up draw 10 watts. This is all at 12 Volts. So, assuming the battery capacity is plentiful, one hour of hard peddling will power these navigation lights for more than 10 hours. I have 3 deep cycle marine batteries that I'm going to borrow, so capacity shouldn't be a problem unless we have other things running too.

Thanks

[gonzo]

LED combination lights are more expensive but draw about 3W. Trolling motors usually say the Kw rating on the motor and the specifications. The reason for two radios is that you have to monitor the working channel and channel 16 at the same time. The upper river is a possibility for you because there are some islands to hide behind. The wing dams are sometimes scarce. Also, barges nose up to them while they let others pass on tight turns. If you are there they may not see you and crush you. What you are describing as a vessel looks like the usual debris floating down the river. The lower part of the river is completely enclosed by revetments. That means it is an artificial channel with concrete sides. The depth on the shores can be over 100 (one hundred) feet.

[mons]

As it looks, we are going to build an engine mechanism rather than buy a trolling motor. The people at Minn Kota said that they only gear a motor for 3-4 mph and I need 5 in my big rig. So I need a big prop with a low pitch. I am looking at a 14x9 prop. That is the biggest and lowest pitched prop that I can find. I am talking with my physics and electrical engineering professors to get an estimate for the amount of power that I'll need. I figure we will have to bike into town hear and there to charge up our supply and make a pit stop at a local bar if need be.

[mons]

Any thoughts??

[newinertia]

Do any of you guys have any experience with the TENN-Tom Bigbee Waterway?
If you have not seen my build- here are the results.
My motor is a vertical shaft Kohler, mated by belt drive to a 50 hp Johnson lower unit. I love barges and rafts, but you gotta be efficient, sailboat hulls like mine are the easiest to go thru the water at 4-5 mph! this project has cost me about $885 so far, and Im about done. I am a firm believer in displacement in engines. my engine is a 550cc single four stroke, and produces gobs of torque at idle- no- make that below idle, I added an extra bit of flywheel weight to achieve the sound of the boats on the river in the roaring 20's. originally i had a 25 hp Tecumseh V-twin in the boat, but after a few hours use, I could not get the sound, rpm's, power, or the fuel economy of a large single cyl. (thumper) will post video soon. thump thump thump thump thump thump.....

Well I needed to fit the boat with eigther human power or a trolling motor for a backup form of propulsion- I have been mulling this design over for a few years now and yesterday morning i decided it was the time to build one, so with only the parts and supplies I had on hand, I built this.....
The tuna fin pushed me at 1.6 mph on gps, boat is filled with a weeks worth of food and clothes, stove, 5gal water, 5 gal gas, 17hp Kohler engine, toolbox..........etc. Id say she is a fine shantyboat! the outer hulls are Hobie Cat 16, center hull is a Catalina 15 Capri. Spars under deck are 304 stainless 2"x2"
Also- this was a float test for the amas and main hull, c/b wt/balance.
Special Thanks to Mindy- my girl.

[mons]

We are still set to launch on July 11th 2009 and still set on solar power. Check out the raft so far:

http://raftthemississippi.blogspot.com/

[GDFL]

have you done ANY power consumption calcs? Solar power is just not practical without thousands of dollars in solar panels and a huge battery bank. At a minimum you should have a gas engine and a backup engine or you might get by with a decent generator and high capacity charger for your batteries. It's a very inefficent way to go, but keeps you on electric power.

[gonzo]

I looked at the blog. The deck is attached to the pontoons with what appears to be thin straps. It doesn't look strong enough. As far a solar power, you have be able to maneuver and go over 100 miles without stopping. It is a one shot deal from Baton Rouge to New Orleans, then you have to go through one more lock and a canal into Lake Ponchantrain. On the lower part of the river, the wakes get pretty big and there is no place to hide like in the upper part. The Traffic Control gets to decide if they will allow through after Baton Rouge or not. The USCG can stop you before if they think you are not safe. Barge operators will complain if you cause any hazards.

[mons]

Thanks for the input guys,

I talked to the USCG and the rule of thumb is that you need to have the capacity to go at least as fast as the current, so you can propel against it and stop yourself if need be. On the upper Mississippi, it's about 2mph and on the lower it is 5mph.

We do, in fact, have a gas motor for back-up power. The goal is to go the whole way without using it but it is always an option.

I have done all of the theoretical calculation that I can possibly do. I've been talking to some of my physics professors and some other electrical engineering professors from my school and we all agree that it comes down to drag, which can only be measured by experiment. We're almost done with the motor mount and then we will find out how fast and how far we can go.
The plan is to charge up each night on shore (hopefully) and use the power through the day. The solar panels are not enough to maintain the batteries but will certainly extend the motor time. And they are actually quite cheap at less than a dollar per watt if you buy the cells and construct your own panel.

[GDFL]

good for you for doing research and calculations. I'd be very very cautious about planning on charging up every night. The only place to do that consistently is in a marina and you'll have to pay to do that IFF there is one available. I know on the Tenn-Tom waterway you can go 200 miles before there is a decent place to charge a battery. One problem is that when you do finally find a place, it's only 10am and you have to stop and lose the rest of the day because the next stop is too far away. It would greatly benefit you to look into getting an old 5-8hp horizontal shaft engine from a tiller and building your own dc generator from the engine and a simple style car alternator. Some have just a couple of wires and would be easy to rig. The hardware store or lawnmower shop should have all the pulleys and belts you need. That would give you a fairly inexpensive option for charging batteries on your own schedule. Another option is to buy or borrow an inexpensive generator and buy one of these Iota chargers http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Iota-DLS-75-amp-RV-Power-Converter-Battery-Charger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1171Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2c4fa37787QQitemZ190314674055QQptZMotorsQ5fRVQ5fTrailerQ5fCamperQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories They are very good and would quickly recharge your batteries, but the first option would probably be cheaper overall.

[gonzo]

There are sometimes more than 270 miles between services. The current is much higher than what you are saying. Last December I missed the entrance to Memphis and it took me one hour and ten minutes at 6.1 knots in the water to do about three quarters of a miles. This is when the water is low. The record current there in high water (summer) is 23 knots. Normally you can expect 10 knots or so.

[mons]

Wow, I didn't know it really goes that fast. I figure if we hit waters like that, we can stick near shore. But we do also have a 10 hp motor, which gives us some good speed, although we haven't measured the speed yet.

[Frosty]

Cripes with speed like that you could throw a rope round the pier and water ski all day long for free.

Well until you fell off!!

Heh if you tied your boat to the pier it would be on the plane while your not in it.

[gonzo]

We were no more than 50 feet from shore when it took us that long. The shores are all artificial so it is deep close to it. They are covered by "revetments" which can be cement slabs or stone. A problem of getting close to shore are the whirlpools. Unless you have power and good steering they turn you around. In my sailboat with a keel and fairly deep rudder it was hard to keep a course within eighty degrees. In the channel is not so bad. Unless you get to the turns where there are wing dams. These are underwater and control the flow of the water towards the cented. You can really feel when you go over them. They produce a lot of turbulence.

[BacShortly]

I'm doin it right now, solar power on extra battery. Baton Rouge at the moment, 27th day.

Bacshortly.com

[gonzo]

How did the Traffic Control respond to your request for a number?

[BacShortly]

It was a great trip, I used an improvised pontoon for safety reasons and went from Minnesota to New Orleans and beyond to Biloxi. It was completely entertaining, with no wakes of six feet. The tows pilots were excellent with their regard to others - downstream has the right of way (but we showed high regard and courtesy too), one radio was enough, I threw my trolling motor off before beginning (weight, and it likely wouldn't help much). Biggest danger I though was the ships below Baton Rouge going southward - they were stealth like and quiet, would slip right up on you. Fuel is available, but you might have to walk (hand-truck) - two meals a day on the Upper places to stop), boat food mostly on the Lower - spotty internet, very HOT, slow and wide. The best thing about the water is the temperature. If I were twenty I would consider doing it again for comparative value, but I'm am 56 (maybe intercoastal next). Ice was a luxury, and there was no set happy hour. More at bacshortly.com

[shugabear]

well qwest04 i grew up on that river further south than you are and i can tell you that the further you go the more dangerous it becomes. the river took my brothers life. when you get to the top of the state of miss the river gains two more currents and the undertow is considerbly worse i would suggest if you are serious to install a small rudder the west side of the river has a southern flow while the east side has northern flow. a sail would be of no use for the fact the banks in most place block the wind. unless it was southerly. now if you really are wanting to do it stay to the center as long as the barge traffic promits it. now once you get to the yazoo canal ( if you are going that far) when the canal dumps into the river it cause somewhat of a whirl pool affect it is a very strong flow just be carefull.

[NEWENGLAND]

[QUOTE=kapnD;41886]Dont forget that the people that made this great nation out of a wilderness tried and suceeded in some "damnfool adventures". Life without risk is a waste of time. I'd love to raft down America's great rivers, and would expect those who ply the same waters for profit to co-operate. Its like riding a bicycle down the highway. Not the safest thing to do, but possible, legal, and frequently done. QUOTE]


Ah, So.. Treehugger when you can take the prop wash from my hand you can leave the safetey of the Cowlin Monetsry.

Every year there are entertaining stories of idealistic people chaleging the physics of nature such as riding their 10 speed againt the traffic flow on a rotary or on a highway (NOTE: Thats why they put signs for those who have no commen scense) http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/katsumox2/Melbourne/aaDSC00265.jpg


You will take note: Those signs at the entrance to Logging roads that tel you to turn on the CB Radio to channel X are not for the Logging trucks listening pleasure. They anit gonna stop for a Bike or Treaker when they have 100,000 pounds of timber comming down a gravel road. And peddling a bike around the woods dressed in a brown sweater during deer season, well if I have to explain it to you?

and that Tug with 500 tones of barge behind it anit gonn swerve out of the way of your Kayak or raft. In fact from a brigdge about 100 feet abouve the waterline the Pilot is never even gonna see you.

This is just like Wheres Waldo: Here is a picture of a kayak next to a ship. Can you find the kayack?

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/ro/sd_notes/winter_09/misty/boarding.jpg

[BacShortly]

Wheres Waldo? -

http://bacshortly.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/img_1304.jpg

'Freebird' near the rudder -


Bacshortly (http://bacshortly.wordpress.com)

[djwkd]

This is just like Wheres Waldo: Here is a picture of a kayak next to a ship. Can you find the kayack?

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/ro/sd_notes/winter_09/misty/boarding.jpg

Within a a few seconds i can. The Boarding ramp leads down to it in about the middle.

[bigriverraft]

I recently completed a 1000 mile raft trip on the Mississippi. It is quite doable in a homemade raft. No problems with tows, no problems with current or turbulence. No real problems at all...just a great trip with amazing scenery and kind and generous people all along the way...met a number of other people doing the trip in canoes and rafts. If you want to do a raft trip down the river
research it well and talk to people who have actually done it. All the horror stories I heard were from people who had not done it, while all the encouragement I got was from people who had...the trip down the river was probably less dangerous than the truck ride to launch...just do your homework and pay attention

[A. Dumas]

does anyone have any links to information about the locks and dams and where to find information on the official rules of Mississippi river traffic? Any info that would help make a rafting trip at least less dangerous and ridiculous?

[bigriverraft]

There is a ton of info on the web...below is just a sample of what can be found by entering a term in your search engine and hitting return...

Mississippi River gauges- this is good for keeping tabs on river levels. I had this site on my smart phone and was able to see the levels and predictions while I was on the river....great to be in the 21st century
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/glance.php?wfo=mpx&riverid=203833&view=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1&toggles=10,7,8,2,9,15,6


Good charts are a good idea...get them here...
US Army Corps of Engineers source for charts, info on upper river
http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/

US Army Corps of Engineers source for charts, info on lower river
http://www.mvd.usace.army.mil/gis/navbook/main.html

This site is one of many that will cover the needed equipment to pass a safety check...most of it is common sense and you would want it anyway...
US Coast Guard Auxiliary - Vessel Safety Check
http://safetyseal.net/

Links to many things including links to download Nav Rules - requires pdf The rules governing traffic on the Mississippi are the same as Inland rules anywhere...the whole manual is about 300 pages but only about 15 pages of it deal with small recreational boats on inland waters...rules are pretty simple to learn
http://www.maritimeconsultant.com/Useful%20Maritime%20links.htm

Links to river trips that may interest you..many things can be learned by reading accounts of those who have gone before....
www.zannel.com/bigriverraft
http://bacshortly.wordpress.com/
http://www.biggetter.com/
http://www.mynameisbill.com/wordpress/
http://www.bearnakedrafting.com/
http://www.11visions.com/adventures/mississippi-float/
http://huckleberryfinn09.wordpress.com/
http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/boat/
http://www.acts.org/roland/mackenzie/index.html
http://junkraft.blogspot.com/
http://www.bucktrack.com/Canoeing_Down_the_Mississippi.html
http://www.ohioriverlifeboatproject.org/logbook.php
http://www.ericandjoan.com/worldtrip/mississippi/missmain.htm
http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/Other%20Rafts/construction_of_the_vilma_b_for_.htm
http://www.missionscience.com/updates.html

Locking through - how to lock thru...actually turned out to be a pretty easy procedure...
http://www.tva.gov/river/navigation/reclockthrough.htm
http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/opl/default.asp?MyCategory=289
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/op/s/nl/home.asp

Hope this helps....,but remember it is only a beginning...do a Google search on anything that interests you and you will come up with a lot more...

[A. Dumas]

for anyone else interested I found these links really helpful:

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/education_safety/safety/boatwater/miss_river_guide.pdf <---- the "mississippi river guide"

and http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/Other%20Rafts/How%20to%20Build%20a%20Raft.html <---detailed instructions on how to build a raft, not just tiny ones, but large sturdy ones

and also

swimmingcities.org <---not to helpful for logistics, but very cool and inspiring

[mons]

I recently completed a 1000 mile raft trip on the Mississippi. It is quite doable in a homemade raft. No problems with tows, no problems with current or turbulence. No real problems at all...just a great trip with amazing scenery and kind and generous people all along the way...met a number of other people doing the trip in canoes and rafts. If you want to do a raft trip down the river
research it well and talk to people who have actually done it. All the horror stories I heard were from people who had not done it, while all the encouragement I got was from people who had...the trip down the river was probably less dangerous than the truck ride to launch...just do your homework and pay attention

I just finished the trip from Minneapolis to New Orleans in six weeks total total on a homemade raft. I agree with bigriverraft entirely. We even ran into locals who told us to stop and cut the trip short. I believe the people who try to shoot you down had never got to do it themselves and thus want to believe that it's impossible and/or miserable. Probably so they don't feel like they've been missing out on anything. Anyone who has made the trip is far more rely able than anyone who has not. It is, in fact, the experience of a lifetime.

Anyone with the will can do it. But if you go for it, do your homework. Research research research before you ever get onto the water. Navigation charts are essential as well.

If I were to do it again, I'd avoid night driving at all costs. When we ran at night when we had to. We kept a spotter with a spotlight on the front deck, and kept the marine radio on at all times. There were still a few close calls and just plane shitty times. Try getting lost in the dark with nothing in view but water... Something everyone wants to avoid.

Check out some of our stories at raftthemississippi.com (http://www.raftthemississippi.com)

[ryan112ryan]

I am in the planning phase of my trip right now, I was hoping some folks here could help me out with a question.

I am trying to figure out what size motor to get. There is of course the issue to contend with anything over 10HP makes things more complicated with rules and also costs more.

I was thinking 12 x 16 foot or 16 by 16 foot.

For the larger raft dry weight is 630 lbs (including 30 gallons gas) without gear.


I still don't have a finalized raft design, but here is a work in progress so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/ryan112ryan/ScreenHunter_01Sep081755.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/ryan112ryan/ScreenHunter_02Sep081755.jpg