Incredible "Secrets of Yacht Design" website located... [Archive] - Page 3

mighetto

09-18-2005, 10:02 PM

There are a lot of aspects of designing a great sailing yacht. One of these is aestetics. The MacGregor looks like the bastard child of a stinkpot and a fat cruising boat. I've sailed short fat boats like these before, like O'day 25's, they have very poor sailboat qualities.

I love people who just don't get it that everyone keeps threads like this going just to "push their button." If it's a matter of pride, keep on defending your ugly boat. :)

O'days are Costa Mesa builds arn't they. I suspect you object to ocean worthy freeboard.

Mac26x vessels ride high but not excessively, not without grace, with inherent beauty by my eye, and unlike many sailboats the freeboard doesn't vary much when heeled.

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/pretty.jpg

The most important disadvantage of high freeboard on a recreational vessel involves retrieving a MOB (man overboard). Many ocean sailboats carry life slings which are a tool used for hoisting MOBs. Modern designs (like the X boat) have low freeboard at the stern that make unnecessary life slings. High freeboard provides stability. It is hard to knock down let alone capsize a sailboat with ocean worthy freeboard. High freeboard improves buoyancy with no decrease in hull speed.

Low freeboard made sense during the age of marine hunting when it facilitated the work necessary to process the catch or to row. But with low freeboard a modest amount of heel will put the rail under the water. This slows the vessel down considerably and in the extreme can sink the vessel. It is a safety issue.

Low freeboard sailiing vessels are considered appropriate for inland protected waters. These vessels are fine for pleasure use. Pleasure boats - by definition - are toys, and they are not expected to be operated outside of the bath tub environment of a small lake or bay. I do not consider Mac26x boats toys. They are recreational vessels designed specifically for ocean use with appropriate freeboard for that purpose.

Agree with me that it is those who are unhappy with their own boats that are most likely to object to the Future of Yacht design. This future does imply incorperating what has been learned from multi hulls - (the sh;t should float when swamped) and from power boats.

Thankyou for opening the Church of The Future of Yacht Design (FOYD)

NorthLight

09-18-2005, 10:25 PM

Wheee, that was fun! Can I push your button again?!?! :D

SailDesign

09-19-2005, 06:50 AM

O'days are Costa Mesa builds arn't they.
Oh, dear, migho, you've done it again. You could not really be more wrong if you tried (and although you _are_ trying, I don't think you were trying to be this time)
O'Day is/was a Bristol, RHODE Island company. East Coast, that is.

mighetto

09-20-2005, 09:28 AM

Oh, dear, migho, you've done it again. You could not really be more wrong if you tried (and although you _are_ trying, I don't think you were trying to be this time)
O'Day is/was a Bristol, RHODE Island company. East Coast, that is.

Oh lets lighten up. O'Day like many companies on the east coast used designers from all over the world. The O'Day 40 for example was designed by the French designer Phillipe Brand. Roger MacGregor mentions O'day as one of the companies he competed against that is no more in his Mac26x literature. I think by the photo I posted that it is evident that the Mac26x and also the MacGregor 65 have French styling. The French like that wrap around window look that some think is power boat styling in their sailing machines. I am encouraged today to see Crank Boy (AKA Tripp Gal's lacky) in the fish bowl.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23508

But I remain a man in black owing to a recent poll that found that 80 percent of the Republicans think Bush did a good job with Katrina. Argh. I bless my wife for converting me to a Democrate years ago. Perhaps they do not read the Wall Street Journel, Times or Newsweek. Its that close minded robot mentality out of Connecticut. We are either the stupidest nation on the planet or the most evil. Sigh, there is so much work to do. Lets think happier thoughts of sailing design.

Rhode Island may not be an Island and it may no longer be the sailing state (O'Day is no more) but at least it is a blue state. Well I am off to vote the primary. I have a little man - a runte actually - running for Seattle mayor who I favor. In a perfect world he would have a chance of actually getting some press and getting serious consideration as a candidate. Back to sailing.

There is no other transportation related industry that uses designers not employed by the builder other than the sailboat industry. Irwin and MacGregor fight that way of doing business and are correct in doing so. Do you really disagree? Once the designer stops his/her personal involvement in the build, the builder cuts corners and the boat becomes different. This is why no one wants - or should want - a Melges with a hull number over 100. The well built sail boats, the ones truly worthy, are designed and built by the same person. Of course it can be argued otherwise. I am open to being convinced otherwise in any case.

FAST FRED

09-20-2005, 01:57 PM

"Its that close minded robot mentality out of Connecticut. "

CT is actually (unfortunatly ) a "Blue State" .

The welfare recipiants of Hartford , Bridgeport , New Haven ect. out vote the working classes.

"Vote Early Vote Often" isnt only for electing Kennedys with dead folks in Chicago.

200 years ago , last time they mattered,

the Frogs had a saying,

When your 20 if your not Libreal, you have no heart,

When your 40 if your not conservative, you have no BRAIN!

The folks in CT have great brains ,
but get out voted by those folks that vote for Their Livings!

FAST FRED

jam007

09-20-2005, 03:04 PM

Buc

09-20-2005, 04:29 PM

Bruce Farr, Doug Peterson, Olin Stephens, Bill Tripp, Bruce Nelson, Laurie Davidson and many more will be relieved to know they're not likely to be faced with a product liability suit filed by your widow. But I'd be nervous if my name was Roger Macgregor.

As for getting new sails, you might start by learning to trim the ones you have properly.

FAST FRED

09-21-2005, 06:02 AM

"you might start by learning to trim the ones you have properly."

Hardly any mystery to proper sail trim,
a $5.00 set of telltails properly used allows the novice the same trim ability as the "old Salt".

On most cruisers the sails are hardly trimmed constantly as there no dozens of apes as on the "racers".

Cruisers mostly trim trim trim ONLY when in sight of another cruiser.

Then everyone is a "racer" , but at least the purpose built cruiser isnt handycapped by some "racing" rule.

Sail de boat mon!

FAST FRED

mighetto

09-21-2005, 09:23 AM

Let me go back to the 15 knot (17 MPH) Mac26x

Physics is fun (even if mighettos "physics" can be even funnier) so lets do some physics.

The Mac needs a 50 hp engine to achive 15 knots according to mighetto. That gives a driving force of 5000 N. (This is probably without ballast but lets be friendly.)

To get this force from Mac26x sails you will need a windspeed of around 30 knots using full main and spinnaker on a broad reach (hope I get the english term correct here, the wind abaft the beam).

So here is my suggestion to Mr Mighetto:
Take your boat out in a 30+ knots autumn wind together with some friends in other boats with DV-cameras as witnesses. Hoist the main. Turn downwind. Turn off your engine. Hoist the spinnaker. Steer up slightly to get the apparent wind on your beam and prove your claim. (Do not trust your windvane if you havn´t fixed it since you took your "planing" picture.)
Remember to put it on film for the ejoyment of us all. And please, please, use a lifejacket and a crasch helmet!!

I´m looking forward to the pictures

One more thing Mighetto:
The french did not choose platinum for the standard meter because they liked the shiny expensive look but for it´s physical properies. I won´t try to explain more since explaining physics to you is (judging from the failed attempts from lots of nice people on this forum) like pouring water on a goose.

Good Luck Mighetto

Anders

Its a fact that the manufacture claims the Max 26x boat will do 17 MPH under sail. He also claims that for each 100 lbs carried there is a 1 MPH decrease in speed. The M model is less suseptable to speed decrease. Am I foolish to think that they actually can wake board behind a Melges

http://www.wetasschronicles.com/Melges24Wakeboard.mpg

Regardles of the claims and videos, in the modern age designers have to come to realize that the buying public is starting to expect speed. Displacement only speed doesn't cut it except if the vessel is close to 40 foot. This makes all the new 30 to say 37 displacement only monohull designs turkeys. We can respect and appreciate the 20 year old vessels in that size range but seriously the world needs no more of this size displacement hull sailing vessel. Modern weather reporting allows sailboats that can go over 10 MPH to sail ahead, to the side, or around storms and hurricanes. You have to be a thrill seaker or have a blind weather eye to get into such conditions on a properly designed modern sailboat.

Blame the French for the metric system. You can easially break hull speed in normal wind on the Mac26x. I have had mine to 12 MPH. I have also been in gusts to 45 MPH. These are boats that the manufacturer endorses for heavy weather racing and after a decade and 5000 hulls they have a track record the Melges will never come close to. If you think the video is for real regarding the melges, I am game to give it a try on the Mac26x. What a hoot.

water rat

09-21-2005, 10:39 AM

I actually do believe the video of the Melges pulling the wakeboarder. I have witnessed Melges 24's at speed and they were flying along well into the teens. It would not suprise me at all that some good wakeboarder could do this. The start would be the hard part.

Now if you think that the M26x can pull a wake boarder UNDER SAIL, than I would like to see proof of it. I am open to believing it if I can see some evidence. Show us.

Mark 42

09-21-2005, 02:47 PM

But I remain a man in black owing to a recent poll that found that 80 percent of the Republicans think Bush did a good job with Katrina. Argh. I bless my wife for converting me to a Democrate years ago. So, what exactly should he have done?The criticism against FEMA and Brown are misplaced and, actually, quite silly. FEMA is not and never was intended to be a first responder. It has only a couple of thousand employees and most are paper pushers. FEMA's main job is not to prevent disasters in the making but rather to come in after a disaster and coordinate relief efforts (i.e., dispense pork, er, excuse me, "relief funds" to various groups) and make bureaucratic reports to Congress. That's the way Congress set it up. An ex-head of FEMA was on TV this morning and said he used to regularly tell members of Congress that if D.C. ever got in trouble, they would be saved by the local fire or police officers, not FEMA. This is another instance of Congress trying to pass the buck, when, in fact, things worked exactly the way they set them up.
As to Brown, much has been made of his lack of "experience." This is bunk. Almost all appointment jobs (esp. below the cabinet level) are bureaucratic jobs that are filled by politically-connected people who are usually pretty bright and ambitious. Sometime they work out, and sometimes not, but very few of them have directly relevant experience, and I defy anyone to show me a connection between "experience" and how they actually perform. Many of our best Presidents (Lincoln, Truman) and Cabinet officers (Bobby Kennedy (a purely political appointment if ever I saw one), Paul Nitze (an investment banker by trade) had much in the way of directly relevant experience when they took their gov't jobs, but did just fine. Besides, given what FEMA was set up to do, a lawyer is actually perfect for the job. Again, this is just a diversion.
I've no doubt that there may in fact be some real criticism to be leveled against the Bush administration. But I haven't seen it yet.

usa2

09-21-2005, 04:15 PM

local emergency authorities are supposed to expect FEMA to arrive 2-4 days after the initial disaster. I believe in Katrina's case they were there after 3 days.

Buc

09-21-2005, 04:38 PM

"Hardly any mystery to proper sail trim, "

You're right, but you've never seen Frank's boat under sail. I have. I don't wonder that he likes reaching legs. Going to windward, he gives up at least 20 degrees of point to bad sail trim, no fault of his sails. New sails won't make him any faster.

dumbass

09-22-2005, 07:12 AM

local emergency authorities are supposed to expect FEMA to arrive 2-4 days after the initial disaster. I believe in Katrina's case they were there after 3 days.

FEMA has taken much longer than 2-4 days to react to one disaster - Frank's Mac26x. They should have declared it a disaster and had it removed from the marina it was despoiling. The EPA will now have to get involved in the cleanup effort, and the psychological damage to the other boat owners (and their families and guests) at the marina will take years to repair.

mighetto

09-22-2005, 09:33 AM

FEMA has taken much longer than 2-4 days to react to one disaster - Frank's Mac26x. They should have declared it a disaster and had it removed from the marina it was despoiling. The EPA will now have to get involved in the cleanup effort, and the psychological damage to the other boat owners (and their families and guests) at the marina will take years to repair.

Isn't this Katrina and Rita stuff depressing. A former Red Cross board member and a Mercy Corps representative have me totally depressed about the way things are being handled. This news of shipping ice to Maine under the excuse of hurricane relief just makes me sick. Maine is way north and doesn't need ice. Argh! On a positive note, my man Runte made the cut and is in the run off for mayor of Seattle. Things can be better. He had only $7,000 to the current mayor's $490,000 and will now be able to get his message out. He actually has a chance though a slim one of winning. Just being in the game is amasing. I have always assumed you needed to be a millionaire to be able to run for office in the US. That apparently isn't true in Seattle. It is kind of nice to be able to chat politics from time to time. I was restricted from doing that when posting through Washington State equipment. But I don't intend to do so very often. Do remember that I am a write in candidate for any position at US Sailing or SSSS. It is spelled Frank Mighetto and you must also put a check mark. Lets not see what happened in the San Diego mayors race.

The conference in Batton Rouge is on for 2007. It is just a little thing but I feel like my wife and I have done something for the region's stability. 500 to 1,000 tourists at the conference should translate into disaster relief.

Regarding Gig Harbor. It is true that a 26 footer (not Murrelet) was the start of the fire that distroyed 60 boats. I haven't been couragous enough to visit the harbor since just missing the fire by 3 days. But I do consider it Karma that Murrelet was turned out of the Harbor for lack of room. She could have been toast if she had stayed as I had hoped. We have settled on a 70 hp Suzuki 4 stroke and in the mean time are mounting the dinghy engine. Still hope to race soon. The new sail apparently has been delayed. Women in Black on the 24th. Vaughn Bay isn't happening for us. Do go anyway. Dan Decker appears serious about his duties and deserves support.

I met with the Pardeys last week end. It was a very enjoyable visit and they allowed me to visit their current boat - a 30 footer with no engine what so ever. The boat (not Sarafin) , a custom design with a bath tub, was at Lake Union and I knew that you can not get there without going through the Ballard Locks and that you are not allowed to sail. So naturally I was curious at how the visit to fresh water was done. The Pardeys own a substatial dinghy with an adequate motor. Even the motorless sailboats have motors when they tow a motorized dinghy. They also use liquid ballast in the form of 150 bottles of wine. It was only their third trip to Seattle and I do hope they had a great time. Go Small and Go Now is a great tag line. I had them sign my copy of thier book on storm sailing. However, today it is a smart bet that your vessel will never be in a storm. Even Rita is only moving at 13 MPH. Hence your unfortunate sailboat in the Gulf could avoid the hurricane if she were as fast as Murrelet. That would be under sail or under motor power.

Shife

09-22-2005, 08:47 PM

usa2

09-22-2005, 09:10 PM

they shipped it to maine because they ordered too much of it and were preparing for a storm to possibly hit the eastern seaboard. The ice will be sent back down south after Rita is gone.

mighetto

09-22-2005, 11:36 PM

Why this site hasn't banned you yet Frank completely baffles me. BTW...We're still having fun at your expense at one of the other sites that has banned you.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23596

Thanks 1000 hits on me; 200 on TP52s. Kind of shows you what is important. Better yet is that Bush is using Mac26x for cain relief.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4012

sailsmall

09-23-2005, 03:32 AM

In my opinion these threads bashing Frank have been a little dull lately and I think it's because there remain no more facets of his life that have not been thoroughly trashed and debunked. His ideas about yacht design and engineering have been crushed to the point that Frank himself seldom mentions them anymore. His actual sailing ability has been graphically demonstrated to be close to nil. His professional character has been poked at to an extent that many of us would consider embarrassing. An unspiritted political discussion has recently begun that I predict will die quickly - first because this is a sailing, not political, forum; second because Frank's end of the discussion is already too predictably lame.

I'm guessing that Frank is about to sink into oblivion. What will life be like then?

dumbass

09-23-2005, 07:07 AM

Thanks 1000 hits on me; 200 on TP52s. Kind of shows you what is important. Better yet is that Bush is using Mac26x for cain relief.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4012

Isn't macgregorsailors.com another site that has banned you from posting?

mighetto

09-25-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mighetto
Thanks 1000 hits on me; 200 on TP52s. Kind of shows you what is important. Better yet is that Bush is using Mac26x for cain relief.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4012

Isn't macgregorsailors.com another site that has banned you from posting?

No, I am a chief steward. But you had me going. Ha Ha. Care to discuss the Pearl?

http://bwyachts.com/La%20Perla%20Noir/Pearl%20Home.htm

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/pearl1.jpg

There should be a race boat in every production design. This vessel is a standard Mac26m but modified with a bulb keel like a tp52, but retracting, and an articulating bowsprit like a Minitransat. She sports a 70 hp Tohatsu outboard motor. In heavy weather her water ballast is filled.

Crank Boy, Bubba - you are way to interested in HWNSNBS. God is on my side.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23596

mighetto

09-25-2005, 11:36 PM

For anyone who might be looking for a little additional fun:

A Spaghetto Entertainment Sampler!

A View from Across the Pond (http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/507378/page/10/fpart/3/vc/1)

Ballerina Science
Lesson 1
... bringing the bulb weight closer to the hull makes the boat faster like bringing the arms of a twirling ice skater in makes the ice skater twirl faster. ... The better design is to just get rid of the weight on the fin and put it closer to or internal to the hull. (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=31761#post31761)
Lesson 2
... This internal ballast rule applies to everything that moves: cars, motorcycles, planes, power boats and yes - even sailboats. ... If you own a sailboat boat with a bulb contraption on a fixed fin, you own a boat with a correction to a design flaw. ... why don't powerboats have weight on long thin foils? ... why don't sailors hang anchor like stablizers on 100 feet of rode dangling from the centerline? ... (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=32461#post32461)
Lesson 3
This ... prevents multihulls from competing because the space between the hulls is a big hollow. The effect of the hollow, ... lifts the hull from the water at speed. (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=35036#post35036)

Trolling Anarchy
Stupidity and Lunacy PNW Style (http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2833)
Mighetto's new looney bin (http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5413&hl=)
Who killed Frank (http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9514&hl=)

Totally Precious, 52 weeks a year (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5471)

The Troll Report
Installment 1 (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=35614#post35614)
Installment 2 (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=36370#post36370)

Design Anarchy(thru p.13, rated PG17) (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=34012#post34012)

Troll Humor (and IQ test)
Question: What did the movable ballast trained sailor say to the keel boat trained sailor?
Answer: Would you like fries with that order? (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=34281#post34281)

the Mac26X is related to hobies because they came equipped with Coleman ice chests (http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Test&Number=32431&page=16&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

"Incredible Secrets" (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6106&page=1&pp=15)

"Paging Dr. Freud ..."
Zerr seems to be a psychology of fear behind zis sort of sinkink. Just below ze surrface, so too speek. Afterr awl, who vould vant to sail arround mit a big long duedel hangink down frrom ze hull? Mit awl zose dangerrous rreefs unt shoalss lurkink out zerr, who knowss vat might get chopped ofe? Betterr to keep ze "family jewels" safe unt sound inside ze hull, eh?
(INFINITE APOLOGIES TO ALL VOLKSDEUTSCHEN & DEUTSCHSPRECHER FOR MANGLING THE ACCENT/LANGUAGE SO SHAMELESSLY!!!!!!!!!!!)

HWNSNBS - He Whoes Name Should Not Be Spoken because speak it thrice and I return like BeatleGuise.

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/hwsnbn.JPG

And the never ending story continues.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23596

The Church of FOYD is now open. May we honor the memory of Gilligan.

Frank L. Mighetto

dumbass

09-26-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by mighetto
Thanks 1000 hits on me; 200 on TP52s. Kind of shows you what is important. Better yet is that Bush is using Mac26x for cain relief.

No, I am a chief steward. But you had me going. Ha Ha. Care to discuss the Pearl?

http://bwyachts.com/La%20Perla%20Noir/Pearl%20Home.htm

You could build a Mac 26x out of pure carbon fiber, but it would still be a poor sailing boat. Materials cannot overcome a poor hull shape and design concept. The Mac 26x is a compromise design that sadly does nothing well, so it only pleases the sailor whose expectations of sailing performance is set sufficiently low. Or whose sailing ability is low.

Vega

09-26-2005, 09:37 AM

I have had the same boat since 86 and plan to keep it. Why? Well, she over 18 now so I can take her out alone without mom coming along, and the wife doesn't even get jealous.
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Shife

09-26-2005, 05:35 PM

HWNSNBS - He Whoes Name Should Not Be Spoken because speak it thrice and I return like BeatleGuise.

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/hwsnbn.JPG

And the never ending story continues.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23596

The Church of FOYD is now open. May we honor the memory of Gilligan.

Frank L. Mighetto

So let me get this straight. You're proud of the fact that you're the laughing stock of several forums that have long since kicked you out? Good luck on returning to SA. While you continue to deny it. You know you were booted. As you should be from this site as well.

Editor
Posted: Jul 15 2005, 05:38 AM
Report PostQuote Post

Anarchist
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 1178
Member No.: 5
Joined: 19-September 03

QUOTE (Recidivist @ Jul 14 2005, 09:09 PM)
AlanH walked, but Scot may have slammed the door behind him.

Alan went home to his mommy, but the door was not locked behind him. I found him annoying but not worthy of a ban. Mighetto or whatever the fuck his name was/is was indeed kicked out.

--------------------
Rough around the edges, rude and lacks common editorial sense.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20764&hl=kicked+out

mighetto

09-26-2005, 11:27 PM

So let me get this straight. You're proud of the fact that you're the laughing stock of several forums that have long since kicked you out? Good luck on returning to SA. While you continue to deny it. You know you were booted. As you should be from this site as well.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20764&hl=kicked+out

I am still a member in good standing according to

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?act=Members

Of course I stand by what I post. It is easy to verify the truth. Do you? Type mighetto three times on a Sailing Anarchy forum. See what happens. Try it on Tripp Gal read

I promise I do not have anyone's testicles in storage, including Scot's. While I'm sure that all the gentlemen here have a nice matched pair, I've never had the desire to collect them (singles or pairs). If I ever find anyone's I will be happy to mail them back to the owner so long as a name and return address are included with/on them.

Then remember she actually called the police on me and attempted to get me fired. So Bush; So Republican; So Lubberly. Pitty me but be very affraid of her. She should not be a PHRF rater. She scares countless from PHRF races and will continue to do so until others like me speak out. You know what she said about the Cone. http://magic-cone.com/animation1.htm is hers. Get Smart in memory of 86 who passed today. The cone made fools of the big boats and their designers. Now lets chat J100s and Mac26ms

101

09-27-2005, 02:25 AM

Why don't you go and post again at SA? I don't think you can . . . do you? :p

mighetto

09-27-2005, 09:17 AM

Why don't you go and post again at SA? I don't think you can . . . do you? :p

We play a race game. Unfortunately the race game has produced sailboat designs that only the most profesional can make seaworthy. If you want me to try posting on SA create a post with my name Mighetto, times three in it. Note that Hindgrinder has a daughter and complained to the SA board of directors about the nudity on SA. This is a site that must come around for it to be relevant in the future. But lets get back to me :) and the cone.

On 4 August 2005 my website had 230,000 hits for a year period and I was introduced by talk show hosts during a broadcast at Air America to a book called the Selling of Sickness. This is a book about markIeting drugs but it was clear that the same marketing applies to sail boats. And of course sailing is a drug for many of us:)

Public Relations firms on the east-is-the-least for sailors coast of the US had figured out that while most countries do not allow direct marketing of drugs to consumers, you are allowed to market sickness. If enough folks can be convinced that they or their loved ones are sick or that the sickness is so serious that it should be avoided at high cost then consumers will eventually find the drug you want them to purchase either through a health care professional, the web, or other media. The author of the book Selling of Sickness, stated in his interview, which Aired on 7 August 2005 on AM1090 before 8 AM, that once a "sick" marketing campaign is tested out in the US, it is then rolled out in other countries.

This technique may have been learned from the marketing of sailboats. It only works if most of the media can be controlled, meaning those with opposing viewpoints are silenced by bullying, payoff, web site hacking, or legal threats. (sound familiar; it is so Tripp Gal)

Common Sense III demonstrates that this game was being played in the sailboat design field in the 1940s, and we see from the transpac in 2005 and attacks on me and if I am not posting others, that it is still being played. The Cone of Silence has been lifted. If Agent 86 were still living he would yell huzzah.

An entire generation in the US has come to believe that a bigger sailboat with a heavy keel is a safer sailboat. Nothing is further from the truth given the fact that smaller sailboats can be designed that do not sink - even after being swamped - and are able to avoid hazardous conditions, unlike larger vessels, because they are so fast, have more usable harbors, and their small size makes them more like the life boats thoes in larger vessels carry which handle sever seas better than larger vessels by bobbing over breaking waves rather than crashing through them. It may take many more years but eventually the notion that small boats are safer boats will become common sense. Common Sense III was a 28 footer. Cone of Silence is just over 30 foot. She had to be over 30 foot owing to race rules implemented after Common Sense III's race in the 1940s. It is an example of the selling of sickness. Capsize is not a sickness that it should be avoided at high cost; weight that sinks the vessel is.

The cone of silence on sailboat design was lifted by the Internet. Tripp Gal and her big boat wards of the sailing clubs are never going to recover. We can yet save you, crank boy, and others and see the rise of the American sailor. Tripp Gal and her kind hate US Sailing for what they are doing which is supporting the smaller designs and abandoning the big boats. But this is the correct course. If you seriously disagree lets chat more.

water rat

09-27-2005, 12:33 PM

Frank
Your last post is interesting.

If I follow your rational, then I can also deduce that the Mac26 sailors are being sold a "sickness" in believing their boats are deep water racer/cruisers. I frequent the Macgregor website and am a little appalled at what I read when people talk about the stability of these boats. Some of these people are sailing them without ballast water and capsizing them. I rarely see these boats in my area sail and never see them race. Race results would go a long way to indicating to me about their performance instaed of claims from owners and dealers.

I have been sailing and racing for nearly forty years and I feel that my choices in seaworthy boats comes a lot from my experiance. I have never thought that any "organization" or person has led to my decisions. Even though "Tripp Gal" can be annoying and pushy, I do not fear her taking over or pushing people away from sailing. I have weathered many who have tried to impose their ideas on the sailing community. They ussually tire and go away. Hey, just because she owns a big boat doesn't mean that she can't be upset on the race course. Did you hear how in the CYCT Vashon Challenge race a J35 sailing singlehanded beat the mighty Navatae Juviniles boat for boat?

Shife

09-27-2005, 09:05 PM

Put up or shut up Frank. Instead of responding with mindless paragraphs of drivel, actually offer us some proof. The SA Ed has publicly stated that you were banned. Considering your track record when it comes to the "truth", I think I'll take the Ed's word for it. Show us actual proof that you were not banned from SA. But, then again, we all know this is just another one of your countless lies that you'll try to "prove" by replying with a delusional and incoherent response. You need help pal, it is you who is doing the damage to the sailing community, not Tripp Gal.

dumbass

09-27-2005, 10:57 PM

Shife -

Frank said that if we used his name 3 times in a post on SA, he would try to post there. I did that earlier today in the "demise of HWSNBN" thread, so he has no excuse not to try.

sailsmall

09-28-2005, 12:11 AM

Let's see it Frank. You know you are a joke and a laughing stock. Show us that you're not a pussy and a liar too. Post on SA. Do it!

mighetto

09-30-2005, 11:59 PM

Let's see it Frank. You know you are a joke and a laughing stock. Show us that you're not a pussy and a liar too. Post on SA. Do it!

Oh come on. No one called for me on SA and who is posting as me on the SSSS board with tomorrow's date? Must be a Republican. Bad day for the lot :rolleyes:

http://ssssclub.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=1

mighetto@gmail.com you are not Kewl. But lets do chat about VHF radio starts.

sailsmall

10-01-2005, 01:28 AM

Oh come on. No one called for me on SA and who is posting as me on the SSSS board with tomorrow's date? Must be a Republican. Bad day for the lot :rolleyes:

http://ssssclub.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=1

mighetto@gmail.com you are not Kewl. But lets do chat about VHF radio starts.
Frank, you are completely insane to think that anyone believes you on this SA issue.

But thanks for the heads up that the SSSS bulletin board is back up. I'm sure lots of folks will be watching that one, looking for ways to mess with you and your club.

dumbass

10-01-2005, 03:14 AM

Oh come on. No one called for me on SA and who is posting as me on the SSSS board with tomorrow's date? Must be a Republican. Bad day for the lot :rolleyes:

http://ssssclub.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=1

mighetto@gmail.com you are not Kewl. But lets do chat about VHF radio starts.

Frank, I did as you said. I even gave the name of the thread I did it on. So, were you too lazy to try, or you couldn't do it because you are banned and are ashamed to admit it?

sailsmall

10-01-2005, 03:59 AM

Liar, imbecile, clown...

101

10-01-2005, 04:18 PM

Mighetto is claiming that your daughter is upset about the nudify on SA. Any truth to that, or is it part of Mighetto fantasy land?

I wouldn't be too surprised if it's just Mighetto getting all aroused about the Dr. Laura pics - can you imagine what their love child would be like?

The above message is from Dumbass in SA and is the quote that mentions Mighetto three times . . . come on Frank . . . where is the follow through?

woodboat

10-01-2005, 06:13 PM

I am just glad he is a democrat :)

mighetto

10-02-2005, 08:10 PM

I am just glad he is a democrat :)

Except for football, I can not pretend to be outraged. Things outside of sailing, as well as within, are progressing better than I could have hoped for. There will even be a few more converts from the R-faith in this blue state and of course in the nation. (Let’s nonetheless remember that all, including Republicans, are still God’s creatures.)

It was inspiring to see the Al Runte for Mayor signs ringing lake union this week end. Credit Starbucks for this. Al spent decades meeting with the coffee drinkers at Starbucks and at other coffee shops complaining about the way things are and explaining how they should be. Eventually some Republican would complain about a comment he made and the owner would ask Al to meet elsewhere so he wouldn’t offend again. When he did so, the owner would note a decrease in business as the patrons moved with the “little man”.

One coffee shop even went out of business after Al defended Germans (his heritage) and one of the local Synagogue patrons, a Republican no doubt - complained. I remember a discussion where Al tried to get a forest products businessman to see. Al stated that since Al’s grandfather’s father was an Indian fighter he himself had the right to kill Indians. The Republican could not connect the dots. The time for forest products ventures, like the time for Indian fighters, and the big boats is over. I am confident that the business man believes Al Runte prejudiced against native Americans. Did you all see the piece on prejudice in Seahorse. Pg 26. It involves contented slaves on AC boats. Seahorse is so PC. What a great publication to even get the dialogs going that need to be discussed so things can get better. Defensless Defender.

The Church of FOYD is now open. Heck the Synagogue of FOYD and the Kingdom Hall of FOYD are also open. The closed minded philosophy of those from Connecticut is over. Down with Robots – except for the AI as we need those for IRC. Stick with me. This stuff is good. Well the Buttface beer and Rams Sportsbar is at least. Why do folks introduce me to such beer? Wireless Internet is so dangerous. Well I suppose the Men of SA thread will eventually make that buttface stuff clear.

Today Runte’s complaints about officials at our beloved University of Washington have been proven true. Dr feelgood for the lady’s baseball team, recruiting violations for the football team and a woman President from the east we paid more money to than we pay our own Governor now disgraced and removed from office. I note that those Runte complained bitterly about were Ivy Leagued men.

I, an alumnus of the UW and Dog fan, was glad to become a Cougar fan, so in shame had I become. This lasted all of 13 minutes, according to my wife. Argh – can no Washington state team perform? Well heck performance is not necessary when you are connected. OK I am working up to outrage.

Seattle is ground zero, there are none who live here who did not suffer during the WTO police riots, though there are many who refused to see. Lets get a bit whimsical.

Lets assume that Bush and Tripp Gal are part of the conspiracy that brought us a presidential election were both the candidates came from the same secret society out of Connecticut. Lets say that secret society was founded with the recognition that fast sailing ships were required for making profit from the Chinese Opium trade. Lets assume that profit became a huge fortune from which to yield power and that power was used to control every news media in the USA and many outside of it. So powerful in fact that honest reporters like Dan Rathers were removed from their jobs and that even the Internet – a public commons – created by no one government and owned in no way by anyone could be manipulated by paid minions such as likely Tripp Gal.

Now test the assumptions. Fact not Fiction. Why are the Skull and Bones gang different that the Bloods and Crypts? I do not have an answer for that. But I do have an answer for Steve Chiodo.

You make Australia look like the USA man. Stop it. Legal Action? Give it up man. Look up neural network on Wikipedia. No one can tell you why the Artificial Intelegence came up with your rating. That is the beauty of IRC. Of course I only assume this is the mechanism IRC uses to rate.

Oh now, because I have spoken the magic words "Skull and Bones" the bonesmen among us will have to pretend outrage. Its part of the secret oath or something. Look what happened when I did so last time. Ha Ha. Good Times.

water rat

10-03-2005, 12:35 AM

As we say at work, this is nothing but insane ramblings!

sailsmall

10-03-2005, 01:18 AM

That's really wierd.

dumbass

10-03-2005, 07:09 AM

mighetto

10-03-2005, 09:29 AM

As we say at work, this is nothing but insane ramblings!

Yea politics and sailing - its insane. What do you say at work about Tripp's 65 footer design rule? Insane right? The rule is apparently based on the failed TP52 design rule. There is a saying in boat design that you are not respected as a designer until you have your own design rule. Isn't that insane? That logic has certainly produced some insane designs.

Time to get out the MacGregor 65 specs right? We name names here like they do in Seahourse. This is politically correct :) Is it not insane to ask who you are? If you are uncomfortable in identifying yourself how about telling the forum a bit of your background. Put up or stand down in other words. You can be a man of boat design or a boy of Sailing Anarchy. Choice is yours. You are always welcome in the Church, Hall, Synagoge or Mosk of FOYD. We accept all. - isn't that insane?

Tomorrow night. Performance Sailing Seminar. Rodds. I and others who are serious about this sport will be there to ramble.

water rat

10-03-2005, 10:49 AM

Frank
First I am about the only one at my work place that cares about sailing, so no discussion about the Tripp 65 (or whatever it is). I really don't care A small minority of sailors would buy such a boat and that would have no effect on me.

I wish to keep anonomous. That is the neat thing about these forums.

Yes, I frequent SA, Boat Design and a few others.

About me? Well I guess I can't say that I have an abundance of experiances.
Taught myself to sail in my early teens, about 40 years ago. Even though I was brought up in a powerboat family, I became a student of all things involving sailing, navigation, boat design and engineering. Have owned 7 sailboats of various sizes. Raced most of the NW races(Tri Island, Center Sound, South Sound, 10 Swiftsures) mostly on my own boats. Cruised most of the NW waters as far as Alaska. Offshore experiance is only two solo circumnavigations of Vancouver Island(with a side trip thru the Queen Charlotte islands during one circumnavigation).

I don't believe in a lot of the politics involving sailing. But what can I say, I have only been at this for a little while, I am trying to learn as much as I can.

The big boats get the attention, the little boats make history!

dumbass

10-03-2005, 11:50 AM

Frank -

I see you won't answer, which is exactly what I expected. When the going gets tough, Frank runs for cover, and starts babbling even faster.

You can be a man of boat design or a boy of Sailing Anarchy.

You are neither. You are like some of the street people, back when I was in college, who would go out to the Diag, stand on top of a bench, and start babbling loudly to the people as they passed by.

Your knowledge of yacht design is less than zero - what little you do get right is overwhelmed by the huge mass that you get wrong, so the net effect is negative. I just hope that no one ever takes your advice seriously, because it could put their life in danger.

sorenfdk

10-03-2005, 01:32 PM

There is a saying in boat design that you are not respected as a designer until you have your own design rule.
No, there isn't.

Mark 42

10-04-2005, 02:07 PM

AZ,
Are you a land sailor?

I don't mean that derogatorily... I would take up that hobby myself
if I weren't surrounded by water like I am.

I have a relative who lives in Phoenix... so there is some
chance I may be out that way for a visit. Maybe I'll throw together
a small lansailer with widsurfer rig and old bicycle parts if I have time
before I hit the road.

TP 52 Defender

10-05-2005, 09:42 AM

Frank you forgot Audi in your list of sponcers - but wait I know why. They just ran the TP 52 Med Cup so I guess you just can't stand it (BMW all so sponcers the class of over 30 boats now). As to W/L you keep fooling yourself - In the Med it was distance races on day and bouys the next (cources including W/L and Trianges where avaliable). Stop your lies Frank!

mighetto

10-08-2005, 10:11 AM

I see that Frank still has not posted on SA, and is trying to evade the issue by his now typical incoherent rants. So, are you:

1) Afraid to try it because then you know for certain that you are banned.

or,

2) Tried it, so you know you are banned, but are afraid to admit it.

So, which are you afraid of?

So the two greatest days of a sailing anarchists life are: The day He who shall not be named (HWSNBN) came and The day He who shall not be named left. Got to love it.

Lets recognize that boatdesign.net has a growing number of viewers where as Sailing Anarchy is having problems with growth. So good morning boat designers.

Those of us at Lightning Rodd’s on Tuesday were treated to an F-32 build. He blew me away with progress. You all may or may not know that Ian Farrier lives in Seattle and has been taking the new materials for boat building to the masses. Its a cottage industry in home boat building here. A few “hobiests” were hoping that the Boeing strike would continue for another month or so as the carbon fiber matting, ear marked for aircraft hulls, was getting relatively inexpensive. It truly is a professional job that Rodd is doing. This is his second multi-hull build. Cutting edge stuff and stuff he would be chatting about on the SSSS bulletin board if not for that little man comment from the big boat advocate Sudie Parker. She has done the sport of sailing and the Internet so much harm. Sudie Parker is a name that should be mentioned and mentioned often. She Whoes Name Should Be Spoken represents much of what is wrong with the sport, including the problems with course design, race starts and PHRF. But then she is but a minion of others. Do remember that SWNSBS started the Future of Yacht Design thread on Sailing Anarchy for the likely purpose of supporting the big boats, specifically the failed TP52s and Jim Teeter’s inappropriate attempts to design by court case. Happily, Mac26x vessels now command almost twice the price of the vessel when it was new.

Nonetheless this battle, the battle of the fixed fin sinkers against the ultralight multis and monos and Common Sense has raged for 50 years. So lets play a new game.

The old game we use to play was called cow pie bingo. This is where I would step into a sacred cow pie, generate a lot of comments and then someone would light up with a but maybe Bolger, Macgregor, or HWSNBN is correct.

This game is more daring. I say this because there have been over 1000 views of this thread since the magic words Skull and Bones were mentioned. Lets play connect the dots, also called connecTheCut or Connecticut.

The game is like degrees of separation from Keven Bacon. Like how many degrees from Connecticut is a fast sailing ship. The answer is.

Fast sailing ships were necessary to be the first to an area in China short of opium. The first ship to the location could command addict prices. The Skull and Bones were into the opium trade. The Skull and Bones were founded in Connecticut. It is all connected. 2 degrees.

Here is another. How many degrees from the Boys and Girls club to Connecticut. You could say The Boys and Girls club is strongly supported by the Bush Family Cartel. G Bush is an honorary chair. He is a member of Skull and Bones which was founded in Connecticut. 2 degrees. But you can get better than that.

The Boys and Girls Club was founded in Connecticut, the state that has laws protecting the Skull and Bones. Specifically, the corporation benefiting the Skull and Bones and built on the opium trade doesn’t have to disclose its operations in reports as other corporations reporting in the state do. That is one degree of separation.

What is the connection between Boys and Girls Club and sailing. You have me there. We have Sea Scouts for that. But there is a connection between the West Sound and South Sound through a merger of the Boys and Girls club. With that merger has come interesting developments at SSSS like Sudie Parker.

Its all about connecting dots. IE Connecticut. Play or don't play. I have some little man - er Runte - support to do. Since you did not speak my name thrice on SA how about trying the words Skull and Bones. We like to stay ahead of Progresive Radio on Seattle's Progresive Internet. Give it a try. I double dare you:>)

Frank Mighetto
HWSNBN
Member US Sailing
Member South Sound Sailing Society

sailsmall

10-08-2005, 10:59 AM

Raving lunatic.

dumbass

10-08-2005, 12:57 PM

mighetto

10-08-2005, 03:05 PM

Frank -

I see that you are still lying, and not man enough to admit that you cannot post to SA. I made it very simple for you - all you had to do is answer my questions with a single word. By quoting me you cannot claim that you did not see my post.

Why should anyone believe anything you say when you dodge this simple issue?

I will repeat the questions below, and I will repeat them every time you post here until you answer them. And every thread you post in here, too.

I see that Frank still has not posted on SA, and is trying to evade the issue by his now typical incoherent rants. So, are you:

1) Afraid to try it because then you know for certain that you are banned.

or,

2) Tried it, so you know you are banned, but are afraid to admit it.

So, which are you afraid of?

Oh lighten up. Give me some credit for moving the minds of Sailing Anarchists away from those freighters (TP52s) and to Flying Tigers. The future is with the smaller more sea kindly sized vessels. The message I get when trying to post at SA is that I have the wrong password. This is the same message Robert Perry was getting prior to re-introducing himself to SA. He solved the problem by just re-registering. I stopped posting at SA as the result of a bet that I had an addiction to the site. Nothing was further from the truth. The truth is that others were addicted to my web site. If you want me back you know how to do so. I do not find your post anywhere.

sailsmall

10-08-2005, 03:20 PM

That's because you are either a complete idiot or a plain liar. Dumbass gave you the link to the thread where he posted and even quoted it for you.

Shife

10-08-2005, 05:20 PM

dumbass

10-08-2005, 05:50 PM

Oh lighten up. Give me some credit for moving the minds of Sailing Anarchists away from those freighters (TP52s) and to Flying Tigers.
No. You are an idiot and have minimal knowledge of the subject. And some of what you have said could put peoples lives in danger if they would follow your "advice". How many people actually agreed with you? Or here - how many people on boatdesign.net agree with you? You have even been kicked off the Mac26 board - they don't like you. On all of these sites, you are just the village idiot.
The message I get when trying to post at SA is that I have the wrong password.
Are you so stupid that you do not understand that it is what happens when an account has been revoked? On second thought, you are so stupid.....
The truth is that others were addicted to my web site.
You don't seem to understand that you and your web site are objects of ridicule.
If you want me back you know how to do so. I do not find your post anywhere.
Liar. I even gave you the name of the thread that I posted it in. And in your previous post, you even quoted from a thread in which I said Mighetto three times.

mighetto

10-08-2005, 11:42 PM

Frank, you are a liar and a raving lunatic. YOU WERE BANNED FROM SA.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20764&hl=booted
You know, the place you say isn't growing even though it consistently attracts new sponsors and members. As for you being the impetus for the FT10. Yeah, right. Bill Stevens must have consulted you before posting the idea on SA. Isn't that boat everything you hate? Bulb Keel, light displacement, low freeboard, needs good sized crew, yada, yada, yada. You wouldn't know how to untie the freaking dock lines on a boat like that. Stop the lies Frank, we all know you're full of shit.

Shife. It went over the top when Tripp Gal, Sudie Parker, brought the Sailing Race game outside of the OK Coral at SA where we slung our dung like happy apes. SA will need to adapt or it will wither. I do not want that but already many clubs and organizatons have blocked SA. Most, like SSSS, have implemented private member only boards such as http://ssssclub.com/phpBB/index.php and that will continue unless the standard of behavior is improved at SA. The advertisers will move to the private boards. I had long thought SA designed to AstroTurf the TP52s. It has gone beyond that and I take some of the credit. There will never again be 10,000 views of a thread on a single day as there was that day the Church of FOYD went down there. From the ashes has come truth. The truth is that the Flying Tiger is similar to the Black Pearl. a Mac26m in Bulb Keel and light displacement. She They also have the spoon butocks I favor. Lets do analize the FT-10 here.

But seriously Are you a bonesman.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 12:00 AM

dumbass

10-09-2005, 12:51 AM

The truth is that the Flying Tiger is similar to the Black Pearl. a Mac26m in Bulb Keel and light displacement.
Frank, that is complete bull. The only way I think someone could ever come to a conclusion like that is if they were:

1) Using mind altering drugs
2) Suffered severe brain trauma
3) Hear voices in their head

You really are like the street people who get up on the benches and start rambling incoherently to passerbys. They think that they have some sort of mission to save the world from whatever their voices tell them. Yep. Sounds like Frank.

astevo

10-09-2005, 08:47 AM

mighetto

10-09-2005, 10:32 AM

Frank, that is complete bull. The only way I think someone could ever come to a conclusion like that is if they were:

1) Using mind altering drugs
2) Suffered severe brain trauma
3) Hear voices in their head

You really are like the street people who get up on the benches and start rambling incoherently to passerbys. They think that they have some sort of mission to save the world from whatever their voices tell them. Yep. Sounds like Frank.

I have to go back to UCSB to relate to your post. UCSB was one of the first Universities to sponsor the Internet. The drug of choice was payote or acid. Perhaps from those mind altering drugs came the Internet. But in any case the Internet is giving Skull and Bonesmen, like possibly yourself, sever brain trauma. Bush, a bonesman, even hears voices from God in his head.

Now tell me that wasn't fun. 1. 2. 3. Dumbass is connected. Isn't this game fun. But not as fun as the sailing race game.

At UCSB the dorks were the ones that joined Fraternaties. Did you know they named a dorm after me. Anyway they were dorks because the dormatories were co-ed and the fraturnities not and also because one of the Fraturnaty innitiation rights was to get up on benches and ramble incoherantly at passerbys, usually with bible in hand.

University of Santa Barbara's San Miguel dorm is now referred to on the Internet as San Mighetto. Do a google to show this.

Consider the fact that the Flying Tiger 10 meter is about half the price of a J-100. Now consider the term cheep. Think cheep is good like a Magregor 26:)

The Flying Tiger's keel is retractable I think. Lets find out if that is true. ICON has a retractable keel and is also a Perry design. The future does not boad well for sailors that must have long fixed keels. The cannals and river entrances of the world just will not be dredged unless they are part of the super freighter distribution system. The Flying Tigers were meant to fit inside of cargo containers on thos freightets so that they could be transported easially. This notion is the same as that developed by Macgregor Yachts. Both boats of course are trailerable meaning you should belong to a club that has a lot of reciprocal moorages in many places because you will be visiting by trailering if not by coastal ocean cruising. There are lots of similarities.

The main one to hope for is 5000 hulls. The J-24s continue to sink and capsize. There replacement with J-80s has been a complete failure. I hope that the Flying Tigers are unsinkable and seriously doubt that they will require more that 4 crew to race. 4 is the recommended crew size for the MacGregors.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 10:43 AM

Honestly Frank, How do you come up with this stuff?
I dont pretend to think for a minute that you actually believe all this stuff, Yet at the same time i wonder why you bother writing out pages and pages of this drivel. Do you get a kick out of it? Do you think that the SAers who rubbished your website deserve punishemnt and this is you vindication?
I just dont understand. I dont get it.

as dumbass most nobly put it, you are either smoking crack, or really pathetic and getting a kick out of this? Which is it?

I am running for office. Any post at South Sound Sailing Society or US Sailing. The ones on crack are the ones that think the US will ever be competitive internationally in the sailing sport without the changes we are making here at FOYD.

Welcome astevo, we look not for a leader but only for the opportunity to save ourselves. Let every vote be counted.:)

Shife

10-09-2005, 11:59 AM

Shife. It went over the top when Tripp Gal, Sudie Parker, brought the Sailing Race game outside of the OK Coral at SA where we slung our dung like happy apes. SA will need to adapt or it will wither. I do not want that but already many clubs and organizatons have blocked SA. Most, like SSSS, have implemented private member only boards such as http://ssssclub.com/phpBB/index.php and that will continue unless the standard of behavior is improved at SA. The advertisers will move to the private boards. I had long thought SA designed to AstroTurf the TP52s. It has gone beyond that and I take some of the credit. There will never again be 10,000 views of a thread on a single day as there was that day the Church of FOYD went down there. From the ashes has come truth. The truth is that the Flying Tiger is similar to the Black Pearl. a Mac26m in Bulb Keel and light displacement. She They also have the spoon butocks I favor. Lets do analize the FT-10 here.

But seriously Are you a bonesman.

Wow. What a fantastic story Frank. Too bad it's all bullshit as usual. SA doesn't need to adapt to anything. The site is popular because it DOESN"T follow the norm. TP52's are still discussed on SA. They don't need your shitty ass stamp of approval or X number of views on some lame internet forum to be successful. The flying tiger is nothing like a VO70. The only thing it has in common with your tub is that it was never designed to go offshore. It is a inshore sprit boat with a minimalist interior. The keel retracts so it can be trailered. The keel will never be retracted while sailing. That would be dangerous, slow, and stupid. Sounds alot like you. Admit that you were banned from SA or stop posting. We have shown proof that you were tossed. You have responded with more lies and delusion. And stop with the damn skull and bones conspiracy shit, I went to Michigan State, not Yale.

sailsmall

10-09-2005, 12:21 PM

Honestly Frank, How do you come up with this stuff?
I dont pretend to think for a minute that you actually believe all this stuff, Yet at the same time i wonder why you bother writing out pages and pages of this drivel. Do you get a kick out of it?...
What creepy sort of human being enjoys making a joke of himself around the world? This man is ridiculed without any redeeming sympathy in some far away places, and he brought it on himself. Defies belief.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Wow. What a fantastic story Frank. Too bad it's all bullshit as usual. SA doesn't need to adapt to anything. The site is popular because it DOESN"T follow the norm. TP52's are still discussed on SA. They don't need your shitty ass stamp of approval or X number of views on some lame internet forum to be successful. The flying tiger is nothing like a VO70. The only thing it has in common with your tub is that it was never designed to go offshore. It is a inshore sprit boat with a minimalist interior. The keel retracts so it can be trailered. The keel will never be retracted while sailing. That would be dangerous, slow, and stupid. Sounds alot like you. Admit that you were banned from SA or stop posting. We have shown proof that you were tossed. You have responded with more lies and delusion. And stop with the damn skull and bones conspiracy shit, I went to Michigan State, not Yale.

If SA rejects open discusion of ideas out of hand and truly has banned a fellow such as I then this is the norm of the land lubbers of Connecticut. It is not true anarchy. TP52s are the least talked about topic on SA and I even think Mr Ed frustrated with their owners because after a minimal payment for an advertisement they never followed through with payment at the going rate. Such are the ways of those who are trained by bonesmen.

The Mac26m Black Perl is also a sprit boat, an articulated sprit boat which is the only way to go best I can tell. Do you know PHRF adjusts your ratings for articulated sprits. Sigh. In anycase the mini transats, the Macgregor Black Pearl and the Flying Tiger are peas in the same pod. Relatively inexpensive vessels for the masses who want to race. See this and play cow pie bingo.

Apparently you can be recruited into the Skull and Bones through a learned society. You did not answer the question. So Skull and Bone like. But you are still chatting. A true bonesman would have left the room by now.

WOW look at the views. Skull and Bones has to be the biggest draw for any Internet forum of all times. Let the word go out. Start a Scull and bones discussion on SA. Get things rocking. Or hang here. You are always welcome at the Church of FOYD. Was it Michigan State or University of Michigan who provided the great designer Taylor who studied the design of the Mac26x and used that information to break the will of Jim Teeters to ever design again. Such a great sailing state Michigan. Do not see the connection to connecticut yet.

But I do see that when foul behavor is evident calling the offender a bonesman tones it down. Let us call the bonesmen as Judge Jackson calls ducks when when see them. Judge Jackson would be a great Supreme. What is with Harry? What they do in their coffins while reciting their sexual history (masterbate) is ugly business that we need not tolerate on the commons of the Internet. We shoot streight on Progressive Seattle Internet. Our aim is true. Get use to it.

dumbass

10-09-2005, 04:51 PM

I still see that you are still not willing to admit that you were banned from SA. THe nicest thing I can say about you is that you are dishonest and an idiot.

Did you know they named a dorm after me.
The pictures of you that I've seen indicate that college would have been a long time ago for you. I guess this is your way of claiming that you have been a public embarrasment even when you were young, and not limiting it to the last few years. And you seem so proud of being the village idiot.

Do you realize that most Mac26X owners have good reason to hate you? The Mac26X has gone from being (in most competent sailors eyes) just a poor sailing boat, to being the butt of many jokes. No wonder they banned you from their board!

I am running for office. Any post at South Sound Sailing Society or US Sailing.
I don't think they have positions equivalent to the "village idiot",
so there aren't any jobs that you are qualified for.

So Frank, are you ever going to be honest and admit that yet another site banned you - Sailing Anarchy?

dumbass

10-09-2005, 05:02 PM

If SA rejects open discusion of ideas out of hand and truly has banned a fellow such as I then this is the norm of the land lubbers of Connecticut. It is not true anarchy.
There is a vast difference between open discussion of ideas, and giving a podium to the "village idiot". Your knowledge of subjects related to sailing is so limited, and usually wrong, and you seem to be unable to grasp fundamental concepts even when they are explained over and over again. So banning you has had no impact on the discussion of ideas, because the only thing you ever really contributed to SA was to make both you and the Mac26x the butt of countless jokes.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 06:06 PM

There is a vast difference between open discussion of ideas, and giving a podium to the "village idiot". Your knowledge of subjects related to sailing is so limited, and usually wrong, and you seem to be unable to grasp fundamental concepts even when they are explained over and over again. So banning you has had no impact on the discussion of ideas, because the only thing you ever really contributed to SA was to make both you and the Mac26x the butt of countless jokes.

Oh dumbass, you are so behind me now. Left in the wake of those who have powerboat knowledge. That is the knowledge that is important for modern sailboat design. Did you know that the S2 7.9 was designed by a powerboat designer who was prohibited from powerboat design for a period of years after selling his business. Such are the mind expanding notions those seaking truth discover on Seattle's Progressive Internet. Stay on for the ride. Did you also know that Perry attempted to introduce the world to a powersailer called the maxitrailerable. He was ahead of his time. He even attempted to get into mass production but alas only one was ever produced. The butt of countless jokes is the jewel of the boat design business. 5000 hulls in less time than the bigboaters could get them on their radar. You will see in time just as those Republicans who believe it is our president right or wrong will find that a statement of treason. The problem with the Skull and Bones is that it is the bones society over everthing. The bones society right or wrong and definately the bones over the USA or any king, kingdom, nation or religion. How this country could have two bonesmen on the ballot and 5 Harvard grads on the Supreme Court is the tradgedy of the close minded. Hey Mrs Frank is making Margs. You do not want me to turn her loose on you. Darn those Cougs. Lost to Stanford but that is my leed in to the Robot Race. Chat with you later. We are watching the SF game. A complete turnaround. Never liked the Colts. Pearl will be visiting SF in three weeks. Stanford is a second Meca to Costa Mesa for her.

Shife

10-09-2005, 06:25 PM

mighetto

10-09-2005, 06:37 PM

There is a vast difference between open discussion of ideas, and giving a podium to the "village idiot". Your knowledge of subjects related to sailing is so limited, and usually wrong, and you seem to be unable to grasp fundamental concepts even when they are explained over and over again. So banning you has had no impact on the discussion of ideas, because the only thing you ever really contributed to SA was to make both you and the Mac26x the butt of countless jokes.

Oh what a muse dumbass is. He is a bright angle. (for those who follow me I remind you of the Bright Angle trail in Arizona.) Arizona is the state the new head of the boys and girls club came from. Lets connect the dots again. The Bush family is a big supporter of Boys and Girls Club. G W and Barb are honerary chairpersions. Bush recently reminded Americans of how charities are used to do wrong. Bush, Boys and Girls Club, Connecticut.

The Boys and Girls club should have nothing to do with sailing but argh its the Sudie Parker influence. Lets point out that the Boys and Girls club is like the Catholic church in its real estate holdings. If they wanted to do good there are assets a plenty to sell. They amass these holdings by getting communities to help them build club houses. It is so Bush. Private Public partnerships. Only the clubs usually go into areas that will become prime real estate holdings eventually. In otherwords not the poorer sections of town where "democrats" also known as black folk among the Republicans live. OK I have to get off of the Republicans. Who among us has not at one time aspired to be one. It is the Bones we pick on now. We are advanced beyond petty party concerns. True anarchists coming into our own.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 06:52 PM

So let me guess: Your new fascination with the Skull and Bones society is due to watching the program on National Geographic last weekend about secret societies. And because you watched said program, you are now an expert. Correct? I think so. Stop lying and fess up to being banned from SA. We are not going to let you dodge this bullet.

No I missed it as I did my ban. Lets move on and agree to disagree on the ban business. The robot race sure was fun. Naturally the team from the West coast did best. Those Stanford and Berkeley grads come up with the best DARPA projects of all. The Volkswagon Robot today and the Internet yesterday. And of course boat designers from the west are by far the best. I am not just talking about Roger MacGregor, a Stanford grad.

The 2007 generation AC boats are being built in Sedro Wooly Washington which contrary to the press spin is not a Seattle suburban area. It is already happening – the negative spin over the last AC. Sedro Wooly is about as close to Seattle as Olympia is. Seattle is code for cheat in the sailing world. We must see that to get beyond it. Lets not pretend Seattle will be a sailing town for at least another decade. There are repercussions to the community when designing cheaters are welcomed within. Seattle will be a Hydroplane town. That isn’t all bad. Port Townsend, Anacortes, Olympia – these are the sailing towns of Washington now.

I note that the designer of Larry’s next AC boats is pitted against the designer of the AC boats for the King of Spain and the King of Norway. Its exactly the kind of battle to inspire the Brave Hearts of Sailing Anarchy.

mighetto

10-09-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mighetto
There is a saying in boat design that you are not respected as a designer until you have your own design rule.
No, there isn't.
__________________
Best regards,

Søren Flening

NOTE: This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects.

Søren Flening

I love you guy but seriously are you living in a cave? This is a very common expression regarding hasbeen designers. I am certain I have seen it in print and will give you a reference. In the mean time call the statement a mighettoism. I am quite proud of being able to expose at least the notion that those who seek to agrandize there competency beyond their level are the same ones who come up with design rules like the TP52 rules and the 65 rules being advance by Mr. New Hasbeen Tripp. On those who deserve more recognition..

Many do not know that Larry Ellison is defending himself on a Martha as in Martha Stewart. These are the pressing plethora of business maters Seahorse chats about on page 40. Why must the insiders sell when the stock is going down. You think they would be smart and only sell when it goes up to avoid insider trade concerns. When Ellison is done with that he will get back to robotizing his 2007 AC boats. He hasn’t been collecting all that data in is Oracle databases for nothing. Crew, who needs crew? Ha Ha. He will need crew of course but he will likely be better off with the untrained. It takes time to unlearn bad habits from obsolete AC designs just as it takes time to learn the new sailing style. Back to Martha.

One of the greatest gags pulled on me as Secretary of South Puget Sound Sailing Society (SSSS) was the subscription to Martha Stewart Living. Good times between apes, I had posted something about Martha and the next thing I know the club is being billed for a subscription. Well not the club, but the bills and rag came anyway. Owing to the gag however, I introduced that “sailing” magazine to others and two of them are now subscribers. Fun how gags like that work out. Martha did her time. We are a forgiving nation. Seattle will do her time and in 10 years may become a sailing town once again.

Shife

10-09-2005, 07:11 PM

mighetto

10-09-2005, 07:25 PM

Agree to disagree? You loser, not even man enough to admit youre banned. Waste of flesh.

Tacoma, I forgot about Tacoma. Sorry Tacoma is a great sailing town. You likely are aware that the Boys and Girls club is looking to build three new houses in the Tacoma area and has approached South Sound Sailing Society. SSSS is not an Olympia club. She is actually a Seattle based corporation. This is of course horrable given what has happened with the AC sailing in Seattle. In the past SSSS has been a Centrailia based corporation. It has never been tied to Olympia. Its founders live in Olympia and Seattle. I suppose thats a connection.

I can shed some light on wrong doing involving the Boys and Girls club who recently were rejected by the community of Mercer Island for exactly the public-private partnership crap that is the trick of the Bush lubbers with ties to connecticut. So here we have it

Jim Hauser from Tacoma hopes for Boys And Girls clubs in his area and Boys and Girls clubs was founded in Connecticut along with the Skull and Bones. Arg white wine not mararitas. Forgive me. Not my drug of choice. But I am correct on the connection am I not Jim?

The Boys and Girls Club has nothing to do with sailing. Lets think about supporting the Sea Scouts who will be having their Koch Cup next year. The Sea Scouts are the Navy's branch of the Boy Scouts which like the Boys and Girls Clubs gets special treatment by the Federal Government. But the Sea Scouts are not lubberly thinking.

Oh. There is nothing preventing SSSS from meeting at the Tacoma Yacht club. This is the time to bring that up. Meeting at the Tacoma Yacht club would be more convenient for speakers coming from Seattle. Think about it anyway. You have a great sailing town in Tacoma as proved by the Tall Ship event this summer. What a fantastic event. Huzzah to Tacoma and you to Jim just for being from there. Hope to see you Tuesday. Andrew Kerr is speaking.

dumbass

10-09-2005, 07:29 PM

mighetto

10-09-2005, 07:42 PM

Frank: Stop the lies, stop the conspiracy theories, and try to post just one thing that is truthful. You are the laughing stock of the sailing community. No one agrees with anything you say. No one. Fess up to being banned or shut the hell up.

Shife, when I stop posting the Sudie Parker supporters start picking on others. Others who eventually join the sad group of robot thinkers who try to fit in by not even thinking differently let alone speaking out. So you fess up. Are you connected to Sudie Parker or www.nw-bigboats.org in any way. Do note I am serious about running for US Sailing and SSSS offices as a write in candidate. The laughing stocks of the sailing community have always been the big boat owners owing to their poorly designed craft which literaly are thought of as burdons on their clubs and marinas and whoes best possible use is as breakwaters.

Now tell me this isn't fun.:) Lets check out Sudie's web site now eh?

mighetto

10-09-2005, 07:48 PM

More posts from the village idiot. And he still won't admit that he was banned.

Frank, thank you for proving my statements that your knowledge is small, and usually wrong. And that you are a detrement to the Macgregor community (yes, I feel sorry for them because of Frank). Every time you post you prove it.

Any Republican would *LOVE* what you are doing. It's the Democrats (just like the Macgregor community) who would like you to go away.

What. AFAIK the MacGegor community is pleased with my brave battle. You know I recently posted there do you not. The Democrats and the Republicans suffer both the same way. They are two heads of the same snake controlled by the Skull and Bones who enjoy splitting up the masses. Do try to see this. We are all brothers even when wrong. It is our country, the USA. It is our town, Seattle ,that is paying for the close minded win-at-any cost mentality of the bonesmen. Am I still invited to the Transpac Holloween Party?

Larry may be apologizing for having his builds done close to Seattle, a town he associates with Microsoft, cheating, and Bill Gates. What was that great quote? Something like – it is just like Bill Gates to cheat by design because the penalty never exceeds the reward. Only Bill Gates had nothing to do with the AC. That was Paul Allen. Sigh. Allen would have been great for the sport. I doubt he is interested any more. In any case, as our newsletter points out, often the penalty for cheating is to withdraw from competition completely. We will see more of that in the sport I think.

Shife

10-09-2005, 08:20 PM

Shife, when I stop posting the Sudie Parker supporters start picking on others. Others who eventually join the sad group of robot thinkers who try to fit in by not even thinking differently let alone speaking out. So you fess up. Are you connected to Sudie Parker or www.nw-bigboats.org in any way. Do note I am serious about running for US Sailing and SSSS offices as a write in candidate. The laughing stocks of the sailing community have always been the big boat owners owing to their poorly designed craft which literaly are thought of as burdons on their clubs and marinas and whoes best possible use is as breakwaters.

Now tell me this isn't fun.:) Lets check out Sudie's web site now eh?

Yep, you got me frank. I fly over from MI every weekend and hang out with Sudie to plot new ways to screw with your head. Your jealousy of her is amazing. Simply amazing. Post proof that you were not banned from SA. We don't care about your conspiracy theories. We just want you to admit that you are a liar.

sorenfdk

10-09-2005, 08:24 PM

I love you
Oh no! Why me? I do not deserve this!

But Frank, since you seem to posess all the knowledge of the world of boat design, please do tell us about the AC boats of the King of Spain and the King of Norway...

mighetto

10-09-2005, 08:26 PM

You are a loser. You have no credibility. You are a constant source of shame to all. Go back to your hole and play with your radar dome.

Jim the radar on Murrelet is used to calculate who we are catching and who we are being caught by. It is a great trick learned from the crew of Koosah. However, it is also removable gear. The notion of a cruiser racer is not a new one. IBM has a long history of promoting this kind of racer and in fact the Cal 40 is the great example. Naturally IBM is represented in US Sailing. In fact the president is from IBM. I want you to see that technology is now a big part of the sport so lets chat design shall we?

page 40 of Seahorse. “non-linear stability is a key additional target”. Ingo Raasch is chatting about stiffness achieved with minimum weight. Composit technology used to make aircraft hulls. But Micky Ickert is talking about vertical battens on Genoas – like the ones on my new sail and sail vision systems like you would have on a robot boat. This fellow named Frank chats about the Wolfson Unit in Southhampton as being the ‘standard’ for small model sailing yacht tests. This is the same unit that came up with LPS and the Teeter Principles. We need to get beyond that. Did you all know that the first American racing machine had off centerline foils. The Church of FOYD is now open. Let us sing Ave Maria and be sure to discuss her build later.

Page 36 chats about full size tests in real water and real wind. Bethwaite Design. You have to love them. The Tasar simulator was built to help folks like those at Footloose sail. You do the work outs on simulators just like aspiring pilots do for aircrafts. Even capsize is simulated. What Common Sense the Bethwaites have. How does it make sense to put the novices on big boats. There is none. It is harm.

Kahn, Software mogol responsible for Borland International, of course was one of the first to purchase a Bethwaite simulator which costs about as much as Flying Tiger. And yes there is a tie to the big dinghy’s we call AC boats. Jonathan Binns is presently seconded to the BMW Oracle Americas Cup camp. The simulator itself is a neural network – or at least developed by scientists of that camp.

See the future. The future of yacht design is in these simulators. You can expect Larry to use the simulators to test his virgins just as Kahn currently is doing. The rise of the American Sailor and the Rise of the American Programmer are at hand

Frank L. Mighetto, CCP
Institute For Certification of Computing Professionals