BOAT design / manufactoring in CHINA [Archive]

Guest-3-21-09-10-33

02-28-2005, 01:04 AM

Better qualiy, better materials, best quality/labour cost ratio. Why You don't consider Thailand ?
We use AOC vynil ester resin (product in Thailand), biaxiall and triaxiall cloth Lloyds and Norske Veritas certificates.
We build under ISO standards and we assure CE marks.
V.I.P., vacuum infusion process under development on a new 30 ft Lobster Boat.
Also the best teak in the world, choosed direct form the log sawnmill.
Pradoo, Mapl, Ash and many others exotic woods for interiors cabinet works.
And at the end experencied Italian Management.
We had exported in Europe and US and we are developing a new product that will be exported to Norway.
Please take a look at our gallery ******* Boats or our website www.*******boatyard.com (note:will be also update soon with more boats) or contact for a free quotation at info@*******boatyard.com
Thanks for Your consideration

Mikey

02-28-2005, 10:11 PM

botenoutlet,
Looking at Asia is a good initiative, although beware, or rather - Know what you are doing and DON'T trust your new business partner easily, don't take for granted that everything is as agreed of course (that's your responsibility to check) and use a good lawyer to make up the contract (well, the contract is not of much use if things go wrong but still better than nothing).

It is my personal opinion and experience that doing business in Thailand is less of a hassle than in China, I would certainly have a good look at Thailand too if I were you.

Mikey

Guest-3-21-09-10-33

02-28-2005, 11:22 PM

Mikey, nice to know that You are doing business in Thailand, where are You? Could You visit us anytime if You are a boat lover. Anyway, nobody here try to find a partner, or make a business without a contract, just propose an alternative on the boatbuilding market. It was Botenoutlet that asked about!!
Anyway all our contracts is issued and supervised by an international layers company in Bangkok, sometime is real that the boatbuilder have to be safe by the customers!!.
Hope to know You soon.

Mikey

03-01-2005, 04:45 AM

The topic of boat manufacturing in Asia has stirred up rather strong feelings (and opinions from people who perhaps should know more about the topic before they post) in the past, wonder what will come out of this thread...

I am actually very positive indeed when it comes to looking at Asia as an alternative to manufacturing in the US and Europe, but I would also recommend people to survey well and take their time before they decide.

Philippines is too messy, Vietnam too bureaucratic, Malaysia too expensive and Indonesia... China and Thailand are good choices indeed and both deserves to be surveyed.

*******,
Not doing any business any longer, I’m afraid. Full time salary slave at an American multi-national company nowadays - and a boat lover who rarely get out of Bangkok..

Respectfully
Mikey

kany_leo

03-01-2005, 07:10 AM

yeah, true guys, i am a Chinese international student studying boatbuilding in nz, working back in China is what i look forward to, honestly i don't know the situation of boatbuilding in my own country(i mean the cruising boat), shame on me, but can you tell me a bit about that? sorry for this side track

genuineyachts

03-01-2005, 10:46 AM

I personally believe no matter in which region you are going to build the boats you will definitely have pros and cons in certain level.

It depends on how you make good use of the available resources, proceed the business and relationship with the local yards, understand and respect the culture and education difference between the nations and peoples.

Boatbuilding is really joint work of the designer, the marketer, the boatbuilder, the dealer and all the relating units and it does require for a good general business plan.

By the way what do you want to know about Yachting in China, Kany Leo?

James Georgechen
Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

Thunderhead19

03-01-2005, 11:09 AM

I find the modern industrialization of china fascinating. I think that it is going to be a really good thing for the world wide economy because it will stimulate commerce everywhere. I hope that it is done with a careful eye on health, safety and the environment. I have heard that theft of intellectual property is rampant in china and that the laws are indifferent to it. I have seen opportunities for employment in china setting up manufacturing facilities, but I have been a bit worried about not getting paid and then getting booted out of the country for making a fuss about it. These are my pre concieved ideas about working in china, and they are based on rumours, and firsthand stories that I don't entirely believe. I'm just looking for the truth. Does anyone have any positive stories about working in china?

genuineyachts

03-01-2005, 11:19 AM

Hi, Thunderhead,

Drop me an email at: sales@genuinemarine.com and I might be able to introduce some westerners who have been working and building yachts in China for years. They are currently living in China and some of them are the owners of the boatyards here.

They might be able to give you some firsthand ideas from the perspective of the western people.

Yours truly
James Georgechen
Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

kany_leo

03-02-2005, 02:40 AM

just call me kany if u like, i just want to know about the trend of crusing boat making in china, is that affordable for people in the city where u located in, or just a few rich people. i haven't been going bk to china for 2 years really, so i am kind of outdated for that even i am doing a relating course in nz, thx

Mikey

03-02-2005, 02:45 AM

The industrialization of all of Asia is fascinating, but it may result in a cruel awakening in the western world one day. Asians work really hard! We are not there yet by far, but as system and efficiency improves over here, will the European and American boat building industry be able to survive? As we see it today - No, I don't think so.

Still, there are many problems to solve, Thunderbolt, you are definitely on the right track. Culture, as James mentions is another very! important thing, never to underestimate or ignore (unless one want to walk home empty handed) - but that is simply related to respect (which one don't get very far without in Asia ;) ).

Thunderhead, thinking of moving to China if you get a serious job offer? The only thing I can guarantee is that it will change you, for me that was a very positive experience.

kany_leo

03-02-2005, 03:02 AM

jameshogan

03-04-2005, 03:29 PM

This is not as good of an idea as one may think. Quality is very poor, as compared to other yards. Short cuts abound, subsitute inferior quality materials is the rule, not the exception. I was given prices (for sailboat and sport fisher) HIGHER than I could build in the US by a number of yards in china. When I told them this, they said their brand new yard with brand new workers who just learned how to layup glass and run electrical could build better vessels than yards in the US that have been operating for years. Though they wouldnt give a warranty to back up their boastful claims.

There are SO many factors to consider for building in china. You really need an onsite manager who is not chinese who really knows their stuff. You have to pay this person, then you need to pay for all sorts of other things, travel, shipping. alllll sorts of stuff. If you have no onsite person, you will have have an inferior quality vessel full of short cuts. This is a fact not someones thoughts. I suppose there may be a yard out there that is the exception, but you will pay for it. Why bother going through the hassle? Im beginning to ask myself that very question.

Thunderhead19

03-04-2005, 04:14 PM

I used to work for a north american yard that had no quality systems in place, no standardized training programmes, and they hired desperate people for minimum wage to do miserable jobs by hand.

I think you could run a company anywhere with a very good quality product if the quality systems were in place, training was appropriate and the work was de-skilled (assembly line work as opposed to craft work). Any company that can do that should be easily able to put their money where their mouth is. I have seen the quiality of yachts coming out of China improve greatly in only the last few years, but as was mentioned, the prices went up too. I don't know if that means that the things I mentioned are being implemented (the cheap thing to do), or if they've resorted to throwing money at the problem, like the yard I used to work at. I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...I don't know...

kany_leo

03-04-2005, 07:56 PM

i agree with that even i am a chinese myself, but i really concern that good quality and well-trained will change what u think of

Mikey

03-06-2005, 11:50 PM

It will most likely help if the on-site manager is western but I don't think that he necessarily has to be that, that depends more on the management goals. Different tradition => different perspective and priorities, different view => different eye for detail and other things but a Chinese company with a serious intention to compete long-term with American and European yards will realise the differences and what is needed. Surveying moving manufacturing to Asia is a project that should have quite a substantial budget allocated. There are many boat yards out there. Which of them are seriously long-term committed???

To be honest...
I would prefer management to be western and I would spend most of the surveying time on companies who has it, but I would include a few with Asian management. And I would include Thailand :D

Pathetic Quality?
Yes, possible. Quality can vary from pathetic to very good. Pathetic is a strong word, but the range that can be found starts somewhere there. The range is also getting smaller every year. Among the best wood work I have ever seen was in a sailing boat Made in Thailand.

Thunderhead, well written, I think that you are spot on, don’t think that China put all the money where the mouth is by far (hence prices up more than was needed), but they are working on it and they will learn and improve faster than we westerners really want them to. I think that the whole boat building business is moving slowly toward assembly line style, Asia will probably take most of that one day and American and European yards will take the high end where boasting with that it takes 9,000 hours to finish off the boat after the hull and deck is finished is a good sales argument.

Opinions Please

ducaes

03-08-2005, 04:57 AM

hi there..

just join the forum last month..why not look at Malaysia,i know there isn't much info on malaysia on boatbuilding but we do see ourself as oneof the front runner in the FRP composite boatbuilder in Malaysia..we build composite frp powerboat using vacuum bagging system,currently toying around with resin infusion..we have built range of boatfrom size 42ft upto 72ft, from luxury cruiser,sportfisher to patrolboats..we export our boat to US,Japan,Maldives as well as for local usage..currently we're building no.9 hull of Mikelson Yachts Inc. 61ft Pilothouse Sportfisher..do checkout our website at www.fadarayachts.com

Fadara Yacht Sdn Bhd
Port Klang, Malaysia
Tel:+603-31679502
Fax:+603-31679504
Email:fadara@po.jaring.my

genuineyachts

03-10-2005, 08:46 PM

Hi, Guys,

Kany, you can visit www.chineseboating.com.cn for the latest information of boating in China and I bet you could learn lots of first-hand information from those who have been in the industry for years instead of second-hand information.

I agree quality is a problem of some Chinese yards here but just like there are bad guys and good guys in every corner of the world, we have shipyards with bad quality and shipyards with very high quality in China as well as other countries. I personally know every yacht builder which are building top quality boats for exportation and as far as I know most of those quality boat builders here are very busy with the 2005 even 2006 order book full.

However there are some commercial boat builders which will also claim that they are also qualified to build boats to be called Yachts but that is not true. It is definitely not that they want to cheat somebody and the reason lies in the education level, understaning of yacht building, grasp of international boat building standards applied, the culture difference and busiess philosophy. It will take some of them quite a long time to conquer the learning curve and be on the right track.

Do not take me wrong and I think every country is equal to the other and we do not want to grab all the opportunities to China. We could not make it and we do not want it. We just want to promote the yacht building here in China and also respect our colleagues in other countries for their rights to do the same thing.

Anyway my point here is that try to see things in different ways because every coin has two sides.

Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

kany_leo

03-11-2005, 12:41 AM

yo james,
i definitely won't take you wrong because you r so understandable as u r running a business in china. some people say something beccause they don't know about china's situation. actually some of the asian international students do really give them a bad impression. for instance, new zealanders think we just want to get a citizenship quick by studying boatbuilding, i mean some of them, and that's true in some reason, but i am into it really myself, that's why i am the only chinese in the class studying bachelor of marine tech, conversly, all most 80% chinese in the certificate course. anyway i really appreciate u gave me the info, especially the concept of yacht that u said. i look forward to going to look aroung your yard one day. just keep in touch.
cheers
kan

jameshogan

03-22-2005, 06:14 PM

Genuine Marine can you please post contact information (phone email web site) for high quality chinese yards? So far I am able to find one. And they are very busy and very expensive. Thanks

genuineyachts

03-25-2005, 10:06 PM

Dear Jamesshagon,

Kindly drop me an email at: sales@genuinemarine.com and I will see how I could help with your inquiry.

Yours truly
James Georgechen
Genuine Marine Ltd
We Help Build Better Boats
Web: www.genuinemarine.com
Email: sales@genuinemarine.com

Brazil Builder

05-14-2005, 03:22 AM

The advantages of building in Brazil include a government program allowing for OEM duty free importation of quality marine products from overseas for boatbuilders exporting their final product, a large pool of talented craftspersons, competitive salaries (100-300 dollars a month), low cost of living, vast array of fine products such as hardwoods, resins, composites, fibreglass, materials and much more produced right here in this wonderful country of over 200 million people. The climate in the Northeast is excellent for yacht construction - and properties as well as land are inexpensive.

Brazil recently put a rocket into space, they build jets that compete with Boeing and Airbus, refine uranium and are now making moves towards joining the G8 - this is not the Third World.

Access to the market from the bulge of Brazil is approximately ten days to Trinidad in the Caribbean and 2.5 weeks to Miami, Florida - the heart of the global boating industry.

Brazil's an excellent place to build for the reasons mentioned above. I can't figure out why everyone is running to China to build when one can do the same thing in the Americas for as good or better pricing.

Message me for more information

kany_leo

05-14-2005, 12:16 PM

you can not ignore China's development and market, probably that's the reason, but surely Brasil is an wonderful place to get the business done regarding to what you have written above

zerogara

12-26-2005, 05:22 AM

The minimum wage for a week's worth (50-70hours) of work is $12 US.
Many places do not even pay this much but it hasn't been much of an issue yet as worker supply is high for less than $12.
You can bet if a trainned machinist would work for that much that a hand lay-up trainnee will not be worth as much.
The FRP boat building industry is very labor intensive as compared to other manufacturing, vacuum baging or not.
So, I'd suspect that if prices are comparable for boats built with labor cost 40-60 times higher that someone is trying to become a millionaire overnight.
On the other hand the "world" has a demand for low priced lower quality sturdy work/fishing boats. So the low quality heavy lay-up boats have a market indeed. But definetely not at comparable prices.

Quality will improve if that is the way of destroying the competition and the competition is not fair as long as Chinese and other S.E. Asian workers are paid so low.
Taiwan is an other story of itself, they started 40 years ago from where China is now and their quality has rocketed to some of the best built boats in the world. Eventually Taiwan will become part of China I think and their knowhow and the mainland's labor supply will dominate boat manufacturing worldwide.

John James

01-21-2006, 03:31 AM

Dear Sir,

How did you go about getting your boats from China?

Very interested to know how it turned out.

Best Regards

Delphine

01-30-2006, 05:39 AM

You probably have all heard about the coming China Boat Show and I really think that most of the answers you're looking for can be found at the Shanghai Exhibition Center (opposite the ritz Carlton) from April 6th to April 9th, 2006.

At the show, you will find:

* Over 300 exhibitors, 25, 000 sqm of exhibiting space and an equipment and services sections covering 8,000 sqm.

*A dedicated section with an increasing number of local shipyards

*The leading international yachting brands

* 2 halls reserved for the Chinese and regional marinas

* A new lifestyle section, etc.

Feel free to send me an email for any further question you might have regarding the show.

Best regards,

Delphine (delphine@ayeltd.cn)

yipster

01-30-2006, 08:05 AM

thanks, dont know if i can make it to shanghai in april but keep me updated

Wellydeckhand

01-30-2006, 11:17 PM

Anybody know of steamship engine made from China? Or Steamship builder in China's webpage?

Wellydeckhand

01-30-2006, 11:19 PM

Anybody knows of Chinese made steamship website or steamship engine? pls forwad me the website........thanks.

longliner45

01-31-2006, 10:55 PM

Wellydeckhand

02-01-2006, 01:24 AM

Mmmm.... U got a point...... I will start throwing all my persian carpet if someone would tell me about advancement in China steamengine.....:D:D:D

Sander Rave

02-01-2006, 06:05 AM

I guess we all started like that Longliner
The Netherlands have a bad rep regarding slavery and so has the US, the Mexican border is another exaple of economic unfairness. But I don't like to make it a political thing...

Wellydeckhand

02-01-2006, 06:29 AM

Dont Think China have any slavery........ for real.........

BUT..... if a person is beguild to work for a undervalue small pay even though the person is very happy about it then I dont think it is slavery.

Chinese people dont eat Half Kilo steak everyday.......... so when the chinese drink sop or porriages......... The western world see it as a person force by poverty and supressed by the govt. (untrue)

That why richboatbuilder tend to be overweight and beer infested happy..... I am glad to that at least................HIC***...........HIC****.........:D

Back to non political question if I may: Do China produce steam engine? If so does anybody know their website or presence?Thanks:)

longliner45

02-12-2006, 09:38 PM

genuineyachts

02-13-2006, 10:19 AM

Hi,

As a Chinese who has been living in China for 29 years, I was shocked by Longliner45's comment.

I have been in most of the yacht builders in China and noticed no slave labor, beating......

May I ask whether you have been in China? Where did you get those stories about China?

ladivito

02-13-2006, 11:53 AM

Do anybody know about the boat building industry in Malaysia ? how is the price compare to others country ?

Ducaes : How is the market in malaysia compare to others country base on your experience ?

Thanks :)

Wellydeckhand

02-13-2006, 11:24 PM

I was going to pm botenoutlet and apoligize. but I figure I said it online ,so Ill apoligize online . the chinies people are hard workers, they have morals I wish we had. I think its thier govt, I dont like .but I dont care much for mine either ,No nation is perfect but if a man wants to work ,,,,,,,let him ,I think someday China will be a free nation! you cant hold them down much longer!I know this is not a political site but please let this slid ,,,this one time, longliner

No political power can hold the people from wanting better life........... youre probarly right about everybody turning free........:p ...........Thats what Betty said last nite...........:D :D :D .........

jpatarickwagner

02-20-2006, 07:46 PM

Don't send your money. You will loose it. common trick is to get a first production model excellent product. the the rest are substandard. and at a trade show. You see a copy that good or better than yours and later discover it by the people you hired and outfitted and are know screwing you big time. Thats a standard business practice. Just ask Philips,NV(electronics), Medtronics(Pacemakers) and Narvartis (drugs) and 5 thousand other stupid occidental owned companies, But MY uncles china business is doing OK, 3 of 4 Partners are from mainland china, his sons wife is daughter of one of highest Commie Party officials.

adamfocht

03-05-2006, 10:13 AM

From a production and mfg standpoint, I would like to know at what level are the asian builders actually producing powerboats. Do they use similar resins to what we use here in the states? What about cored construction, or vacuum bagging, infusion. I see and read alot on china (especially) as far as steel industries go, and how the government has come in and invested heavily in better techniques and processes as it involves steel and mfg with it. Is the same true for composites? Where could I learn more about finding out about this.

Thanks,

Sander Rave

03-05-2006, 04:55 PM

Make a suvey. Talk to the people and go there to see with your own eyes. They can produce everything you like, but same as everywhere else, quality has it's price.

If you go for a bargain in a low cost labour country (any one) you get a lousy job. An expert wil cost you, so does A class material. They can get it, they have the expertise, and they can build it.

But you have to look for it and see with your own eyes, better yet, hire somebody with expertise in the county and that talks the language. It wil reduce your headaches. not only believe what they say... Call it cultural differences.

Bottom line, it's an interresting opportunity, but you have to put a lot of effort into it.

Wellydeckhand

03-06-2006, 01:21 AM

You get good guys and bad guys all over the world........ get the big name that would ensure quality as smaller one could not back their claim.......

Material wise China have a lot of traditional way of doin things their way which I have no idea..........

Their material would be similiar but not the same as America unless u are talking about Aluminium and welding which is Internationally standard.

Travel China a bit to see the truth for yourself....... it would be a faction the cost of a wrong decision...........

Wellydeckhand:D:D:D

Ari

03-06-2006, 03:31 AM

Ladivito you are asking for what type of Malaysian build boat ? Very fine Wooden sail boat can be built in Pulau Duyong in Trengganu. The cost is about USD 400K up for vey fine boat at 70-80 feet long. Fishing boat of same size is about USD100k. Luhrsen, Grand Bank they build different type, Explorer built small boats,container ships and tankers are built in Pasir Gudang and Naval ship at Lumut..their cost are comparable to any Asian country..of course cheaper than europe..you will be paying in ringgit..you are welcome to have a looks around:)

boatgm

03-06-2006, 05:20 AM

I worked in Asian yards for over 15 years. The one thing I would suggest is a very complete design. If your drawings don’t show the veneer thickness, your plywood spec, and complete coating/adhesive details you are in trouble from the start. If all bulkhead penetration are not completely defined don’t sign till they are. Every wire and junction box should be defined. Even with an onsite manager every part has to be well defined before the deal is signed so that you and the yard are under full agreement. Spend time in the yard. Hire them to do a cabin include some wiring, painting, and joinery work. Commission them to build an frp component something like an outside steering station. Have a few stainless steel parts fabricated. Is the welding rod defined in your spec? Is the polish finish defined? If there are questions bring samples and include them in the contract specification. The parts you make are not wasted you can always use them in your marketing efforts. Spend time with your on site folks and yard management, not everyone can work in Asia. The better the project is understood by all parties the more likelihood of success.

Wellydeckhand

03-06-2006, 09:57 PM

Yesterday I got ripped by a RRC guy with the red passport selling me jade ring..... for 400 US$ . I took the bait as the lovable thing is wonderfully synthesis made......... the gold shop verdict me as an asshole....... so life goes on for me that like chinese goods but cant prevent my own demise.....

I am not bitching but say......... look careful before u buy...... who know u get the treasure of long lost era.....................:D:D:D

longliner45

03-06-2006, 10:22 PM

caveat emptor ,in all worlds

botenoutlet

03-15-2006, 02:27 PM

apoligize accepted :D

I was going to pm botenoutlet and apoligize. but I figure I said it online ,so Ill apoligize online . the chinies people are hard workers, they have morals I wish we had. I think its thier govt, I dont like .but I dont care much for mine either ,No nation is perfect but if a man wants to work ,,,,,,,let him ,I think someday China will be a free nation! you cant hold them down much longer!I know this is not a political site but please let this slid ,,,this one time, longliner

Wellydeckhand

03-29-2006, 02:24 AM

Need rigid rescue boat and crew boat....... the type rubber boat with plastic or aluminium hulls......run on gas-electric motor, do China make it? Any agent in Indonesia? Gonna need alot in near future pls advice thanks.......

Wellydeckhand

Sander Rave

03-29-2006, 07:58 AM

RIB's? Stern or outboard? Wat's your gas/electric thing about? What size, crew of how many heads?

Wellydeckhand

03-29-2006, 09:12 AM

technically I know it rubber parameter and below plastic hull or aluminium. Crew boat would fit 5- 14 people. machine would be outboard. would be able in river and near shore logistic.

We also need boat built for low river and swamp travel......... same passenger.

Thanks

corsair.p

09-12-2006, 02:21 AM

http://www.xmfeipeng.com

you got to see this.

myastral

10-03-2006, 11:13 AM

I spend allot of time at a few of the yards in China and the results have been a mix of good, ok, fair, and oh shit but for the most part if You stay on top of it You can get a fair deal but I think Taiwan does a beeter job all and all

Scott Carter

10-05-2006, 11:34 PM

I concur with James. As a boatyard manager in Thailand, albeit a tsunami relief project, I have seen time and time again the shortcuts that the builders here will take if given the chance. It's very easy to see this same sort of workmanship in many other aspects of the culture (home construction, roads, vehicle repairs, you name it). This is a pervasive aspect of the Thai culture, but it would not at all surprise me to learn that it was similar in other areas of Southeast Asia. It's my belief that a boatyard without a Western manager, onsite, scrutinizing every aspect of a boat's construction will NOT turn out what we Americans/Canadians/Europeans/NZ'ers/Autralians/etc. would consider a quality boat. A botyard WITH a foreign onsite manager still has a very tough job in instilling this quality work ethic in their workers, just ask any one of them. They will likely be proud of the work they turn out, and rightfully so, because if it IS high quality then it came at the expense of either a loong time spent training and educating the builders to Western standards, or copious oversight time spent by the managment of the yard, or both.
I've now been in Southeast Asia for nearly two years, and I think I may be getting in touch with the root reason for this apparent lack of appreciation for quality workmanship. It's my opinion that it has a great deal to do with the view of impermanence on this earth in their spiritual eyes. I know this sounds a bit airy fairy, but the need to have something last a long long time in this culture is not great. Disposable everything applies, even boats and other handmade things that could last a long time but simply aren't due to not using quality materials, etc. Builders at my yard who are helping me build my schooner were bragging that they thought this great boat would last 25 years!!! They were shocked to learn that I was looking for a 100 year boat.
It was mentioned by someone else in this thread that Asians work really hard, and they do, no doubt about it. But the problem is that I see them often working harder, not smarter. They put great physical labor in where using a little headwork could save this effort AND produce a higher quality product. I'll quit blabbing about all of this, except to say that economic differences in our cultures often affect our decisions as to what we "need" to use in terms of materials and workmanship. The Asian history of low income wage earners has kept most of them near the bottom of the global and local economic ladders for a long time, and this has seeped into every generation's perceived need to produce high quality items. It has not affected their ability, though, which would be an asier job to improve on if that were the limiting factor. Their abilities are no different than yours or mine, but the appreciation for using them to produce high quality products is virtually nonexistent.
This message is filled with many generalizations about a vast number of different social and ethnic groups, so there are invariably going to be exceptions, but keep in mind that they ARE exceptions, not the norm.
My opinion, for whatever it's worth.

boatsource

05-21-2007, 07:16 PM

I recently met with the owner of a Chinese shipyard and one of the topics we discussed was quality. It may be different in the recreation industry but he explained to me one of the factors in quality was Government. The shipyards were owned by the government and they would do whatever they could to save a penny.

He also explained that the market in China demands low price items. The price is the major factor, not quality materials or craftsmanship. There are some similarities with the North American society. For example, I have seen government have little concern about quality with the major difference being they are more concerned about paying a high price.

The fact of the matter is 'quality' is subjective. In my lifetime I have seen a drastic change in my society regarding pride in work, craftmanship, quality and honesty. The best possible price is becomming more and more the deciding factor. I don't think it's any better having someone being paid $25+ an hour and lazing about complaining they are worth more. Nor is it any better to get screwed over by the guy down the street than say someone half way across the world.

So far I would say it is not easy to find people, anywhere in the world, who are willing to go the extra mile or to sacrifice when its needed to do the best job and do what is best for their associate. There is way too much money and 'me me me' mentality now adays.

Mikey

05-21-2007, 10:28 PM

It's my belief that a boatyard without a Western manager, onsite, scrutinizing every aspect of a boat's construction will NOT turn out what we Americans/Canadians/Europeans/NZ'ers/Autralians/etc. would consider a quality boat.

Wrong approach, or the perfect recipe for a bleeding ulcer, or suicide, whichever comes first :)

I have seen time and time again the shortcuts that the builders here will take if given the chance. It's very easy to see this same sort of workmanship in many other aspects of the culture (home construction, roads, vehicle repairs, you name it). This is a pervasive aspect of the Thai culture, but it would not at all surprise me to learn that it was similar in other areas of Southeast Asia.

Very True Scott, and it is the same in most other Asian countries. Which is also why it mainly is the western inverstors fault when he decides to build high-tech in a country where he can take advantage of low salaries. Anyone see a mis-match? :)

Supervise the supervisors - that's the key to success in Asian countries. You need a yard foreman (foremen) who already appreciates quality, it won't meet western standards but it is a necessary start (because it is difficult to change personalities...), then you work on him to bring him up to the western level of appreciation for quality. When you have his mind on your side, then he will (with plenty of support) work to bring up the quality of the workmanship of the yard. He can do this, with only 2 years in Thailand, you can not. Which is why the approach you mentioned is wrong

These are not easy to find, the foreman must first of all be a very good craftsman, if the workers don't respect his craftmanship, then he won't succeed - respect is very important in Asia, then he must also possess "what we really want"

If you don't have a foreman for your schooner project, then appoint one - asians need leadership. It won't cost you more than a few thousand bath per month extra.

Their abilities are no different than yours or mine, but the appreciation for using them to produce high quality products is virtually nonexistent.

Very True, thanks! That sentence alone shows that you understand Thais better than 99% of the other farangs

...the need to have something last a long long time in this culture is not great

It is boring :)

You have put in a lot of thinking and have an open mind, I wish you all the luck with your schooner :)

Mikey

Mikey

05-21-2007, 10:41 PM

Its almost criminal to encourage anyone to buy from china .........slave labor. high quotas,, beatings for poor attendance or performance, child labor ,,,ext,,,extera,you are not doing these guys a favor forbuying from them they reap no benifits

That was a very ignorant post, clearly showing your lack of knowledge of China... but you are forgiven because you will learn from your mistake ;)

Mikey

lazeyjack

05-22-2007, 04:19 AM

No Mikey you are wrong and Longliner is right, trickle down does not work

Guest-3-21-09-10-33

05-22-2007, 04:47 AM

Its almost criminal to encourage anyone to buy from china .........slave labor. high quotas,, beatings for poor attendance or performance, child labor ,,,ext,,,extera,you are not doing these guys a favor forbuying from them they reap no benifits

Asian slaves take a brake after an hard workday ...
Seem to be less TV scoops slaves than longliner....

rocknrule

09-14-2007, 10:59 AM

My education is in the marine industry but I've been manufacturing (electronics, metal, and injection molding) in Asia for nearly 20 years. Much of the time in China but more in Malaysia and Singapore. There are a great many problems in China that will grow. The biggest is the labor turnover, now running at about 13 months. One company offers your labor a small raise or bigger bowl of rice and they move on after you've invested time and money in their training.

Boatbuilding in south Malaysia (Johor in particular) is about as good as you can get - ask the people at Grand Banks.

I think Thailand would be a good place for smaller boats and sailboats but not large motor yachts. Taiwan is still good but getting expensive.

TerryKing

09-16-2007, 08:11 PM

Everyone seems to work hard here, with a good attitude. Here are a couple photos from the last week or so. There's a big construction project right next to my apartment and there is temporary workers housing that you can see. It's 6AM and the workers are all eating rice for breakfast...

They work hard, but they all seem pretty happy and friendly, and they know how to take a break almost anywhere! And kids laugh in the bathtub, even when it's a fishtub aboard the family boat.

Felix2001

09-27-2007, 02:01 PM

Dear Arie,

Please pass me your complete E-mail address and I will send you or company background and pictures, with 40+ years of experience we are offering now a low cost boatbuilding service in Argentina, at china prices but with CE certification. We are closer than china and actually many associated shiprads with us are exporting to the CE.

Sincerely,

Dr. Felix Martinez Muñoz
PRESTERA YACHTS
Naval Architecture & Engineering
Buenos Aires, Argentina
trimaran2001@yahoo.com

Is there anyone who knows manufactors in CHINA?
We are looking for manufactors of boats in China so we can import that boats to The Netherlands.

We are planning to make a trip to China this spring, but we need some good leeds to make specific apointments there.

We want to import:

Boats up to 10 - 12 meter

Made of: polyester, glassfiber, steel.

Models: sailing-, fishing-, speed-, sportboats.

Please let me know.

Kind regards,

Arie

starktr

09-30-2007, 07:02 AM

Web Sites for several Marine / FRP manufactures located in Asia;

http://www.dkcomposites.com/

http://www.grandbanks.com/company/info/index.cfm

http://ctrm.com.my/services.html

http://www.stompcraft.com/index.htm

http://www3.gurit.com/marine/cases_irc.php

http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsdesk/20060820120101ibinews.html

http://www.neilmarine.com/

http://www.skaugen.com/applications/System/publish/view/showobject.asp?infoobjectid=1001363

-----------------------------------------------------

The few facilities I have visited where 1st class by anyone’s standards from the front gate to the finished products.

On picking a plant location;

Historically most businesses never live thru start up. Basically running out of money before management gets enough right to pay for the mistakes. Very few start ups can afford a move making plant location a life or death decision worthy of a best effort.

Picking a survivable manufacturing location requires knowing how to manufacture, sell and get your product to the customer. Even free labor is useless if you can’t get materials into the plant or finished product out in a timely and cost effective manner.

A few Countries, the US may be #1, have refined and packaged corruption into a known and accepted, if not clearly defined, cost of doing business. Much the rest of the World deals with plain old raw in your face corruption as a fact of life. Want that container cleared today? Need a “permit”? Union problems? Knowing when to pay, how much, to who can be a challenge to the temper as well as the business plan.

Put some time in research. Internet’s a wonderful tool. Look for successful businesses building close to your requirements for technology and levels of production. Visit their plants. Ask questions. Qualify answers.

My pick?? Initially set up in Singapore for infrastructure, banking, business presence, intellectual property protection, rule of law and a highly educated population with a western work ethic. Develop the core management team while accomplishing R&D, tooling, refining production processes, QC, job descriptions, sourcing materials, marketing. Start up production and fine tune. If sales warrant significant expansion set up a manufacturing plant in a nearby Malay or Indonesian manufacturing zone.

Selleritas

10-11-2008, 03:20 AM

true true, china is developing at all of the aspects nowadays. setting up of a business there which is really a great thinking. actually many people get it done already. i didn't mention that was so quick that the boat building industry established in china

Hi Kany, I would love to know what you are doing now. Back in China? We are an International Yacht Building company now building boats in China.

Adam Younger

10-16-2008, 05:04 AM

Just got back from Xaimen in China - a realy good trip to a yard (Watermark Marine) who are building 3 of our designs - with more to follow.

Build quality at plug stage is excellent and looking good. Attached are:
- a 7.5m RIB hull nearly ready for mould to be taken
- a deck for a high speed 7m sportsboat
- hull plug for a 12m RIB, prior to spray rails going on

Contact me for any further details
Adam

Neil Marine

12-18-2008, 07:52 AM

Hey everyone Neil Marine in Sri Lanka has been in the forefront of boat building for the past 40 years and have built over 35,000 boats over the years. The boat yard is ISO certified, 5S, Lloyed's and only uses raw materials that carry the highest certifications.

Exports to Netherlands, UK, Norway, Mid East, Africa, Maldives and many other countries. Design is done by Naval Architects from UK.

And have the ability build to customer requirements and specifications. We also build Specialized boats for coast guards, Navy and rescue operations for international clients.

We employ over 1200 work force and build our boats in climate controlled warehouses to ensure maximum quality.

More details at

www.neilmarine.com

Email: roshantha@neilmarine.com - Group director

27713

27714

27715

27716

27717

27718

27719

27720

27721