Is there a lack of trendy, posh, luxury boats?

[Dandyboat]

Hi, I'm an amateur product designer, and I've been doing some research into small luxury power boats.
The longer I searched, the more I began to understand that this entire sector is faced with a lack of creative design, and a lack of courage in using new materials, new styles and entirely new concepts. Of course, that's my personal opinion. And I'm looking forward to reading your point of view!
I also found out that there's a serious market segment, consisting of young wealthy individuals who want a more unique style, and newer designs for show boats. Just imagine a young "new money" millionaire who wants to have his own show boat to be seen with in a Southern European marina. He needs a dandy boat. And he doesn't have a lot of options: either it's a race-car like power boat, or a luxury yacht (which is not what he wants, for yachts are for old people), or a dull white power boat of which there are hundreds which all look the same.

Hence, my proposal to design a posh boat for dandies, which breaks with the dullness of the average luxury boat. Our dandy wants to make a ride just to show himself to others as he serves champagne to his girlfriends on board.

Some conceptual features which set this dandy boat apart from others:

-an entirely translucent/transparent hull, made of polycarbonate sheet, encased in bare aluminium.
-a shape vaguely resembling a BMW Z4
-one fat salmon pink leather sofa

I'm working on a 3D file right now, which I will post soon. I hope to get your comments and suggestions. I really think the sector of luxury boats needs some fresh air!

[Danger Mouse]

Seems as though you're in a viscious circle. Either the rich young poeple have the money to burn on an original, one-off design - ergo no problem.

If they don't, they have no choice but to go for the mass-production market. God forbid we should end up the same as the car market - you either spend alot of money on a decent flashy car (lambo, ferarri, aston etc.) yet still have the same as someone else, or you buy a normal one (ford, vauxhall, renault etc.) and "sex it up" with spoilers and big useless exhausts! Stilll, a production boat is always the same as another.

The design features you talk of sound like a bit of fun (however impractical), however, to bring you smack down to earth, what is the point if it is not going to be commercially viable? What you are proposing is basically of the first type mentioned. Costs more money than sense to get it made, and when you do, who else would want it? If they do, it's just gonna turn inta a production boat, so there's nothing original out there.

Sorry if I'm too realistic, but that's the world we live in.. :( :(

[Dandyboat]

That's exactly the problem with all luxury products. :) Make too much of the same, and they're no longer luxury items.

However, we're talking here about a limited edition of a designer boat. I'm sure there's always a market for this. And often it's a profitable one.

Anyway, does anyone know of any transparent polycarbon hulls? I've never seen any.

[SailDesign]

Anyway, does anyone know of any transparent polycarbon hulls? I've never seen any.

If they're transparent, that would explain it... :)

Realistically, however, polycarb is the wrong material for a boat. too flexy for one thing, and the structure required to hold it all together would detract from the whole "transparent" thing.
The problem with "designers" as in "designer boat" or "designer clothes" is that they have little knowledge of the practical problems involved with putting boats together, or in why a boat needs (important word) to look "like a boat", not like a BMW.

Steve

[gerard baladi]

Luxury, Performance, Eye catcher, to DROOL over, PRICEY,Riva's "Aquariva".

[Brett aus]

Like Steve said, BMW's look like cars, handle like cars and drive on roads. Boats are a little different.

I think the structure required to hold a polycarbonate boat together would make it look like a pile of broken glass. And where's the privacy when rich boy gets his ladies. I guess people could then see that they don't want to get disturbed...

[Tad]

Dandy,

Good for you, keep going. The Z4 poly boat sounds cool. Don't pay any attention to those who raise endless practical reasons as to why it "can't be done".

I think efforts like this should be supported by the industry, and they are to a certain extent. But if Designers only design what they think will sell, we end up in an ever tightening spiral down to the generic white boat. It is the designer's task to point this out, by producing concepts that push the boundary. Look at all the wild concept cars that are never built, but are certainly taken very seriously but the industry.

One problem with the production yacht industry is that new boats are designed by "focus groups" that only see what already exists. Rather than by an individual with a vision for the future. These focus groups are made up of sales people and potential owners. They are asked what sells and what do they want in a new boat. They point out a diverse bunch of features from various other boats, and all the "designer" is asked for is to pull these together into one "new" boat. The only thing he can do to put his stamp on this thing is to add some funny shaped windows.

Be careful, your poly Z4 could well end up as another boat with funny shaped windows.

I don't think designers lack either courage or vision, but builder's and marketing people have become very conservative. There are reasons for this. Twenty years ago there was great diversity in the designs offered by production builders. Tooling and marketing costs were low, thus there were many small builders trying to break into the market with something different. Now we see a few large, well funded builders, who are doing very well selling what they have always sold. Why change that? The few small builders looking to make a splash can't afford to blow it on a dud product. So they build just what everybody else builds.

But it is funny to see trends come and go; picnic boats, trawler yachts, now it's retro daysailors. Everybody jump on that bandwagon!! Perhaps the Z4 poly boat is the next fad, who knows?


Tad

[MikeJohns]

More pumped up plastic boats on steroids for the non nautical.

Quality is an elusive thing these days

just my opinion

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

And I will come up with some new miracle chemicals to keep all the green goop from sticking to it...

YUP...

SH.

[SC1]

Small luxury power boats: www.strand-craft.com As you will see, their boats are the most beautiful boats in this size, in the world today. The Retro runabouts are designed around a vision how to conect the old classic beauty with modern technology and functionality. This is Bentley, Ferarri and Harley-Davidson all over again, in a boat this time.

[Richard Petersen]

I am a sucker for the old vertical bow style. So I will build one. Only change is to maintain the 24 degree V from the foward 5 th. frame to the transom, so the ride is comfortable in busy 2' chop. Vertical bows ONLY, go thru a wave, they do not jump or angle up. Wind shields MUST be able to to take crest of a wave if necessary. It happens. :(

[gerard baladi]

Small luxury power boats: www.strand-craft.com As you will see, their boats are the most beautiful boats in this size, in the world today. The Retro runabouts are designed around a vision how to conect the old classic beauty with modern technology and functionality. This is Bentley, Ferarri and Harley-Davidson all over again, in a boat this time.

Thumbs up to Bo Zolland, But How does the girl in the Bikini swim & get back on board? Tricky.

[SC1]

Thumbs up to Bo Zolland, But How does the girl in the Bikini swim & get back on board? Tricky.

Hopefully the girls boyfriend be strong enough to pull her up :rolleyes:
I think there will be retractable swimplatform, for not killing the classic clean look. :idea:

[SeaDrive]

I don't know much about power craft, but there have been examples of a similar approach in sailboats. For example, the Alerion Express. It exploits well-established marketing concepts that go back at least as far as the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company: best possible pedigree, percieved high quality of construction, percieved high performance, "less is more" approach to features. Styling is conservative, modern, with traditional heritage.

I suppose the Hinckley Picnic Boat is an example in power.

So I think it's doable, but as pointed out, someone has to risk their money to get started, and it usually is not the people who have the established name to convey the pedigree, the high quality, etc. One thing that you have going for you is that less need to compete on price; these are Louis Vitton & Prada shoppers.

[SC1]

Here is the solution for hidden swimplatform ;)
I think there are a huge market for small luxury runabouts produced in limited series, exotic materials, hi-performance and super finish. For the booming superyacht business, as tender/toys or in new
markets with a lot of "new rich" people like the Middel East,
Russia and Asia. They also want to pay for "exclusivity".

[Kazulin Boats]

Hi,

I enjoyed reading your comment about a market that we actively pursue;

"I also found out that there's a serious market segment, consisting of young wealthy individuals who want a more unique style, and newer designs for show boats. Just imagine a young "new money" millionaire who wants to have his own show boat to be seen with in a Southern European marina. He needs a dandy boat. And he doesn't have a lot of options: either it's a race-car like power boat, or a luxury yacht (which is not what he wants, for yachts are for old people), or a dull white power boat of which there are hundreds which all look the same."

I'd greatly enjoy hearing your opinion about our boats and how you feel they would fit into the market in Europe. We have done fairly well in North America and Japan and now we'd like to work on Europe. Here's our website, www.kazulinboats.com. Write me back at jweber5@optonline.net and I'll send you some more photos of various boats that we have built. I am looking forward to hearing from you!

Regards,

Jim Weber, Long Island, New York

[icetreader]

...Anyway, does anyone know of any transparent polycarbon hulls? I've never seen any. There is a production canoe-kayak made from this material.
The problem I see with this material is hiding dirt and scratches.

[RThompson]

I know the discussion seems to regard smaller power boats -however:

http://wallyyachts.net/ have a mentality similiar to what you are thinking about. No one could say they conform to whatever is trendy at the time.
Indeed, their avante garde shapes/ideas of the '90's are now mainstream - wally's more recent boats are way out there in styling and ideas (or you could say 10 years behind or in front)

As far as being exclusive I know they were vehemently against any Wally being in charter service because that would mean _anybody_ could be seen on one. Although that has now changed.
An advantage Bassani (Wally yachts owner) has over a lot of other designers is that he has the fiscal capacity to go ahead and build a $30 mil concept boat with whatever ideas he dreamed up. - as a hobby.
tough life for some...

Rob

[Sander Rave]

Dandy,

I think you hit the bulls eye with your remarks about todays high end market. Wally's a exception though... I join Tad in this one. Don't let your dreams be stopped bij conservatism. You do not plan to build a fishing/work boat. Ever thought of laminated glass as a construction material in stead of PC ;-) (not for the whole hull, dust a teaser)

Go ahead, build that porno-pimp-salon boat (I have my doubts on the pink sofa though...) but please keep it exclusive...

Kazulin/Strand-craft, this is the opposite of what Dandy has in mind. I don't know for the onther continents, but the hype of retro style is exit in Europe. Sure some will make a very good living out of it, but it's not the big wave in design anymore.

[CCJ Johnson]

I don't want to put the dampers on the use of new materials, but I would have thought that a hull in polycarb would abrade and then discolour very quickly when being pushed through the water.
I know of a new yacht design that has a transparent swim platform (so you can admire your surface drives), but even if this is toughened glass I can't believe it would look good for very long.
Even the water in a fish tank needs filtering and conditioning to keep the glass clear. So anyone who's vain enough to want to be 'seen' in a 'see-through' boat is not going to look at their best through a film of micro-organisms - however it would spare us the sight of someone on the toilet.

[SC1]

The innovative and imaginative thinking on a "Dandyboat" could be done all styles from classy retro to futuristic designs.
SC 50 Miss Sweden is designed with futuristic style but you could also see the heritage from when pleasure powerboating started in the 20-ies.
This mix in combination with the latest technics with advanced composite constructions in Kevlar/Carbonfibres and Jet turbines/surface drives this will be "Dandyboat" No:1 :o

[Sander Rave]

CCJ, it's just an example. (I hope ;-) of not taking the paved path. A lot is possible if you have specific demands. Innovations often occure when a hand full of craftsman and an ignorant designer or stylist push the limits together.

[CCJ Johnson]

Sander.
Pushing the limits - thinking outside of the box - call it what you like, I love the innovative use of materials and technologies, but good design is Form and Function in equal measure.
The original poster suggested a transparent polycarbonate hull - this would have great form, but hardly any function.

[SailDesign]

CCJ, there would be plenty of function - everyone would be able to see how much crud there was in your bilges :)
Steve

[yokebutt]

In my experience, a product doesn't have to be all that unusual to be considered a unique personal statement, it just needs to have right kind of image, and that's mostly a function of slick marketing. (playing on various insecurities, really) Seriously, when did you give an average 911 a second glance last?

That's why I prefer racing boats, (or cars, for that matter) no BS, just efficient and elegant structures suited to their purpose without un-neccessary gee-gaws, doo-hickeys or whatnots.

Yoke.

P.S. Just my personal opinion mind you, and yer' dang strait, I'm entitled to it.

[waveless]

Hi,

High-Speed Waveless Boat can be designed as BMW look like, because it's body, fore and tail is the same width. It will be a revolutional design.

[CCJ Johnson]

Yokebutt you're so right - marketing does play a big part in the way a product is perceived, and I think in the luxury boat sector this is especially so as the price tag increases. Slick marketing will (in the short term at least) get you around weakness in design, when you're selling into the 'see and be seen' world of toys.
I have only one question - what's a gee-gaw and a doo-hickey ?

Regards
Colin

[Willallison]

I seem to recall that there was a tender built with a big polycarb window in the bottom of it.... but as others have eluded to, the fact that they're not tied to the back of everyones boat suggests other manufacturers aren't likely to leap in and give the idea a go.
I like Tad's sense of the adventurous, but at the end of the day designers not only have a responsibility to be innovative, but also practical. The Wally 118 Power is a prime example of form over function. At speed, the helmsman is unable to sight the horizon! Azimut's brave new 68ss is not that dissimilar - though not to anything like the same extent. It shares the Wally's interior styling somewhat - straight lines and sharp corners abound, just waiting to gouge chunks from the shins of a stumbling crew member.
Now don't get me wrong - I love both these boats... just don't ever untie them from the dock! ;)

[Sander Rave]

OK Will,

1-0

form should follow function in my humble opinion

[Tad]

My point was that we need innovators, rather than imitators. Yes, form should indeed follow function, and I recommend everyone go and buy a Honda Element.....NOT!!

In the late 1980's I was involved in the design of a 100' sailing yacht called Signe. Joe Artese (http://www.artesedesign.com/JA3.htm) was the interior designer and stylist. He came up with the concept of a skylight around the mizzen mast, in the owner's cabin. The owner's loved it, no reasonable yacht designer or naval architect or marine engineer would have ever suggested such a thing. But Joe did, and after much iteration we came up with a way to make it work. It's awesome. Tad

[Willallison]

Azimut's brave new 68ss is not that dissimilar - though not to anything like the same extent. It shares the Wally's interior styling somewhat - straight lines and sharp corners abound, just waiting to gouge chunks from the shins of a stumbling crew member.
Now don't get me wrong - I love both these boats... just don't ever untie them from the dock! ;)


I TAKE IT ALL BACK !!!! :eek:
I've just returned from the Sydney boat show, where I had the pleasure of spending some time aboard the AZ-68. FABULOUS! Azimut have have succeeded in making the boat look 'sharp' and yet there are very few sharp corners likel;y to do you any damage. The master cabin is so much better than anything else I boarded that I could quite easily see myself never needing to go on deck..... That is if it weren't for the sliding roof that I think I'd spend all day opening and closing .... that is if it weren't for the magnificent helm position - and even more so, the leather double 'navigator's' seat ... that is if it weren't for the..... did I mention that I liked the boat...? :D At last someone who can understand that the living spaces should all be above deck - afterall if we wanted to spend the day inside a cave, we'd all be buying sailboats! :eek: :eek:
Still not perfect for me of course - when you 'only' have 68 feet to play with, the thought of devoting the aft 20 to a tender garage seems somewhat absurd. And having seen the light by movong the living spaces to the main deck, putting the galley in its own dedicated dark hole is not what I'd do. But on the whole a fabulous boat. Of course at AUD 4 million, it makes their equally impressive (if less avant guard) 62 flybridge seem a steal at 3 - twice the boat for 3/4 of the dough.... but then the 62 doesn't have those fabulous moulded glass basins in the heads .... or that seriously cool wenge/aluminium flooring ... or that.... did I mention that I liked this boat...?