Motor Sailers?

[Pericles]

From the website.

"Both styles of deckhouse are fitted with insulated security glass together with insulated frames to prevent condensation."

Storm boards?

Pericles

[Ronald]

The windows are from indeed thermic isolated security glass and styles.
They are also stronger than a surveyor advised for ocean going yachts.

Al lot of glass is nice to view around.
Deckhouse is very safe and comfortable place to be, during rain, storm, nights, etc etc..

Of course you can have stormboards as well.

[Pericles]

Then how do you see out through them? :D :D

Pericles

[Ronald]

Now you know why we do not like storm boards.

[Pericles]

OK, I'll play. Why did you mention stormboards in the first place? :D

You can't see through them and the boat doesn't need them. Are you selling them? :D :D

Pericles

[Ronald]

RHP was mention the storm boards on the forum,

I do not think you need or want them, because you like to sit inside, and look around during bat rainy or cold wheater.

You are safe and dry inside.

Yes we are building the boats custom build.

We have a small Yard in the Northern part of Holland and build max 4 boats in a year.

[RHP]

You guys win, the glass is safe.

Dont forget to water the tomatos every other day...

[RHP]

Here´s a yacht thats termed an expedition yacht but in fact comes pretty close to my definition of the modern motorsailor.

In fact the design spec is fascinating, the owner and designer really thought it through.

Donations gratefully received. :-)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1799111&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1012&url=

[Guillermo]

I like very much Noordkapper's looking and concept, Ronald. :)
Maybe sometime I'll visit your shipyard (if you allow me so) as I go from time to time to your area. I've sailed the Ijselmeer several times.

Stormboards can be made of some kind of transparent plastic, no problem with that. I know some of the salty globetrotting members of the Banjer 37 MS Club have them, but they told me they have never used them, even in offshore heavy weather sailing because of the fuss.

Cheers.

[Ronald]

I like very much Noordkapper's looking and concept, Ronald. :)
Maybe sometime I'll visit your shipyard (if you allow me so) as I go from time to time to your area. I've sailed the Ijselmeer several times.

Stormboards can be made of some kind of transparent plastic, no problem with that. I know some of the salty globetrotting members of the Banjer 37 MS Club have them, but they told me they have never used them, even in offshore heavy weather sailing because of the fuss.

Cheers.

You are always Welcome to visit the yard.
You will see how different the yacht with the same hull can be, wen you build a boat custom.
We are in the Northern part of the IJsselmeer near the "dijk"
I think indeed the concept is good fore cruising. End this month there is a test result in the German magazine Blau Wasser.

Ronald

[lazeyjack]

Found this in the sponsers section upon this site, can anyone explain the bottom
Lot of boat for the money, ask 260k, but want out, , repowered with a 120 4cyl JD would be great world cruiser

[lazeyjack]

better view

[Ronald]

It looks like that some one with al lot of fantasy start welding on this boat, not rely drowned by a architect I hope.

[lazeyjack]

well what about this type. i call her a 100/100. powerful under sail and power, with v long range and smallish strong engine
Sorry if some of the older hands have seen before, But I would like some opinions alloy, 18 tonne disp, 8000kg keel

[TeddyDiver]

Makes me a bit cautious when I see triple spreaders on a cruiser/motorsailer. Not KISS and maybe had trouble with rightening moment with proper mast profile...
Anymore info?

[RHP]

Looks like a pilot house cutter to me.

[lazeyjack]

Makes me a bit cautious when I see triple spreaders on a cruiser/motorsailer. Not KISS and maybe had trouble with rightening moment with proper mast profile...
Anymore info?

yes I was peeved with the rig, but it stands up ok, I built it, so i guess there is a lot more info:)) your eye line when seated is haffway up the window,
i found the inside wheel was a waste money, and installed a joystick, The big quartering seas push her a bit, but she runs very quiet upwind because of rounded sects forwards, 2 sail reaching in the flat, i have seen 13kts, built her on spec, and sailedher for the buyer for 6 years 8MM alloy bottom, 6mm topsides, 16.4m , 4.7 beam 2.1 draught, scheel keel, 48 FEET ON WL, some more pics in my gallery VAS at dep 138 degrees, at arrival 132 degrees very sim to oyster and swan same dimensions although she is much lighter than Oyster there are some more pics in my gallery
if you notice, after 6 years in thsi hot climate, the shine is still on topsides, that is International paints linear urethane, same as the top awlgrip, the thing I dont like abt those two are, you can not polish or touch up,

[lazeyjack]

I had hoped for orders, I developed for NA market, but was tough going, and down here no body wants expensive monos

[Guillermo]

Nice looking boat Stu.
She seems not to have backwards runnig rigging to tension the babystay and to have an in-boom mainsail furler. How does that work?
What's her DWL displacement and how much ballast?
Could you post her parameters and ratios?

Cheers.

[lazeyjack]

Nice looking boat Stu.
She seems not to have backwards runnig rigging to tension the babystay and to have an in-boom mainsail furler. How does that work?
What's her DWL displacement and how much ballast?
Could you post her parameters and ratios?

Cheers.
Hello Guillermo
i used kevlar runners when in head seas, they are tied back to the chain plates, and run though a quartering block back to the secondary winch
DWL AT 19000 with 1700 l fuel and 800 water
Ballast 7500 lead with 500kg keel structure approx,
I will go find my papers on her I was so busy building I never took too much notice of the rig, left it to Sparcraft NZ, realised that you cant beat aft lowers
The in boom furling, is leisurefurl, you can actually reef reaching an running, the load on the reefing line is enourmous, 10mm spectra . The trick is to find the right vang tension when furling, and mark the place, they are very very expensive, I would not have one again , because the loads are heavy, AND the wear on luff, when furling is high too.but with Nimbus, the boom so high, was only solution
The furling is done with what I called my workstation winch, on roof, that winch and the primarys, hydraulic, the head sail furlers Bamar Italy Electric I could sail her alone, as long as she was on pilot
The other issue was the sheeting angle of the staysl, next time, bo baby stay, aft lowers , and self tacking boom,
Principal dimensions and spec

L.O.A 55’ Hull length 53’9”

LWL 48’

Beam moulded 15’5”

Disp. Cruising mode 19000kg 41800lbs

Ballast lead 7600plus keel structure 500kg total 8100kg 17120lbs

Sail area/disp ratio 19.1

LWL /Disp ratio 177

Engine-main 85 Cummins with TwinDisc 2.4:1 option John Deere 85 (John Deere is now preferred as this engine offers replaceable wet liners and has a significant price advantage in NZ and Aust. A slower turning diesel was chosen over the lightweight very high speed diesels because Deere and Cummins where happy to have their engines running at low speeds 1000—1500 revolutions for very long periods, whereas the high speed option required high speed fuel guzzling operation in order to satisfy warranty requirements

Genset Northern Lights 6kw@ 110 vac 5 kW @220 vac

Invertor Trace 4000x24(4000watt 24 vdc) sine wave 120 a/h charge

House Batts 8x16l 6v Dyno wet cell giving 750-amp hour at 24 vdc

Starting 2x12volt giving 24 volt

Steering Whitlock cable with B@G hydraulic auto pilot working off 50cc ram to tiller, attached to 2205 ss rudder stock 31/2” with 3/8 inch framed rudder skinned 316l ss

Fuel 366 imp gals in 3 tanks

Range in excess or 1500 miles, filtration Racor

Water 200imp gals with Spectra desalinater unit

Thru hulls all flanged isolated ss ball valves

Sea chest one box feeding all services

Winches hydraulic Meissner primaries and workstation, Man. Secondaries total 8

Capstan Maxwell 3500 hydraulic

Ground tackle 330 ft 10mm chain 300 ft 20mm laid rope
All docking lines 3/4in laid x 8. Fendors x 6

2x stockless fixed head

Hatches Weaver x 8

Mast 3 spreader Sparcraft

Boom Leisurfurl in boom fully battened main

Furlers, 2 x electric Bamar

Deck gear Harkin , harkin triroller sheet leads
Sails 4, main, yankee, cruising spinnaker, staysail

Deck, teak, to cockpit and transom steps, Treadmaster to all other surfaces

Tender Maxim 2,6m with 8hp Mariner

Raft 6 men RDF

Structure

Qualified yacht builders, under NZ Maritime supervision, builds the M55 in aluminium alloy. The structure is designed to be container proof and the rudder to withstand swipes from a whales tail

Stainless steel was chosen for the rudder in order to keep the sections slimmer and to provide superior strength

The paint system allows for use of copper antifouls, using the Zeca system, which protects the hull from electrolyses .All, top yards now have used this system for over 6 years with excellent results

Maiden Voyage

The M55 maiden voyage was a Tasman Sea passage. Auckland to Brisbane

For 4 days the wind and current were right on the nose with winds to 50 knots sustained 30-40 over 48 hours resulting in very steep sea estimated at up to 30 feet (500 mile fetch at 30 knots equals 30 feet wave height not allowing for currents)

We chose to motor sail into this at 3-5 knots, at all times we felt safe, when turned side on to the weather the 55 rode like a duck, she was free of solid water in the cockpit at all times and only on several occasions took heavy water on the house front this may not seem like extreme weather, but with rain and lightening and a green crew, it was plenty for a maiden voyage After this we had flat calm and indeed ended up motoring for the entire trip, the big fuel tank capacity coming into its own. Once into Morton Bay we hit 13.5 knots two sail reaching. The B@G pilot steered the whole way over with no problems
The leisure furl boom (see BWS article on reefing systems) was indeed able to furl down at any point of sail, which is a huge plus, the trick being to mark the vang and leave it alone, if the boom is at the wrong angle then the sail will act like a conveyor belt with a misaligned roller, it will track to the high end.

Summing up the Builder was happy with a ship that was built to withstand container strikes, that is comfortable at sea, has a very good motoring capably yet sails well. In particular the siting of the winches enables them to be operated at waist height from the side deck and from the cockpit with one knee on the seat and the other foot on the deck switch.
At all times the large cockpit with its sole at main deck level, felt secure and proved to be a very accessible social area

Stability

The righting moments calcs show similar characteristics to Swans and other top boats in this size range (Yachting 1999) and the calculated VAS 138 at departure and 132 at arrival. These figures more than comply with the Sydney / Hobart race requirements
Millennium Yachts Ltd is a NZ regd company incorporated in 1985 as S.F.Hearn Maritime Construction Co Ltd.
The company specializes in alloy yachts. Built in the Euro tradition, that is transverse framing only. This old technique requires much more accuracy in the build than in the longitudinal method; the result is a clean interior to the hull, no water traps and a much stronger bottom with fully welded floors at 16-inch centres.

[TeddyDiver]

Thanks Lazey.. Nice job! I think there's more demand to monos like this in the northern lats.

[Guillermo]

Nice boat, nice numbers, nicely built boat. Congs!

[sharpii2]

Found this in the sponsers section upon this site, can anyone explain the bottom
Lot of boat for the money, ask 260k, but want out, , repowered with a 120 4cyl JD would be great world cruiser

This looks like an attempt to create a planing surface for when the boat is under power.

I can see how it might just work without spoiling the displacement speed too much.

[White Knight]

Guillermo, The Nordhavn MS 56 is one of my favorites I'm sure it'll get you anywhere, but I'll likely never afford it by retirement time. The Island Packet SP Cruiser 41 footer is a more likely candidate but wants for a controllable pitch prop. The price may be doable. I think you rated it an : H-15/29 on your Motorsailers and Motorsailing website (nice site, by the way). Very usable envelope I'd think but I wonder if it'd be better suited to a slow turning, fuel sipping engine and a larger prop. The available Genoa and captive reel system are requisite. I like the shoal draft and the forward cockpit would be nice with the remote control for the autopilot. OK, I'm getting really lazy now. Go ahead - put the cushions on the cockpit seats.

[Guillermo]

Hi Knight,
Sorry for the late answer.
The IP SP 41 has lots of power (110 HP), too much for my taste. From the propulsion point of view 50% of that would be enough for a 23000 lbs boat and I don't think appliances can justify the other 50%. The Banjer 37 (27800 lbs) has two basic motorizations, 62 and 95 HP (continuous). I've tested both and in my opinion the 62 HP engine is more than enough. But it seems to be a tendency nowadays to overpower motorsailers.

On the other hand, the ballast to displacement ratio is quite low for a proper oceangoing yacht (STIX 39).

Those two things plus the D/L ratio of 223 and the flat stern sections indicate she has rather been conceived as a good weather 'fast' motoring 'island hopper' in semidisplacement mode.

Cheers.

[White Knight]

Thanks for the input Guillermo. I too thought it was highly overpowered and that's one reason for the need for the controllable pitch prop. It seems I'd usually be running the engine at fast idle speed and wouldn't want to run it long-term underloaded. Then again us Americans never heard of too much power. It could come in handy to vacate an area at the approach of a storm. Still, I think a lazy sailor like me might appreciate the newfangled line handling rig and keep the wife warm and happy to boot. She'll camp out on the water for awhile but not for long. I'm planning to lure her off the shore full time.

[White Knight]

Then again I might ought to reconsider that stability index. HUMMMM - 39. Might she prove to be just a bit tipsy?

[Guillermo]

The STIX tells nothing about the seakindliness or performance of a boat, being just an indication of the boat ability to cope with strong conditions from the point of view of stability.

An STIX number close to or over the boat length in feet is a desirable characteristic, so 39 for a 41 footer doesn't look too bad.

Cheers.

[White Knight]

Yeah, thanks - I follow you. STIX is the ability right oneself from an upset. I knew that. It's also a rock band and a river in Hell, according to Dante. Appropriate - Huh? Or is that Styx? I was unsure of the optimum index rating. Close to length is good rule of thumb. More is better, OK; but is Stix figured with full sail, motoring under bare poles; no poles either, or what?

[Guillermo]

Shall I refer you to the STIX thread? You'll find there all you wanted to know about STIX and didn't dare to ask about....:)

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/stability/sailing-boats-stability-stix-old-ratios-13569.html

Cheers.

[TeddyDiver]

You must feel the STIX and come to the dark side :P

[White Knight]

Maybe I don't know as much about STIX as I thought. Go ahead STIX me!

[Todor]

Any comments on GLEN-L design motorsailor "KODIAK 29"?Any body with some experiance with building/sailing with this boat?

Best Regards
Todor

[cyrillo]

I seek to contact me trevor bolt
I am interested in the 34 foot to build.
but I can not communicated with the architect trevor bolt
I already send mails but several unanswered.
Can you help me?
thank you
Cyrillo

[cyrillo]

I seek to contact me trevor bolt
I am interested in the 34 foot to build.
but I can not communicated with the architect trevor bolt
I already send mails but several unanswered.
Can you help me?
thank you
Cyrillo

[cyrillo]

I am interested in the 34 foot 35 ft to build.
but I can not communicated with the architect trevor bolt
I already send mails but several unanswered.
Can you help me?
thank you
Cyrillo
valeoo@hotmail.com

[Seagem]

Yes, Perry, modern cats have been proving to be a very nice option for all around cruisers. They have some drawbacks as are the higher initial cost, high berthing price at marinas and generally speaking higher maintenance costs. And, for all around cruisers, the lack of self-righting ability is also a minus in spite of all the enthousiastic positive arguing from the concept lovers.

After analyzing many of the present crusising cats, I come to the conclusion the great majority of them can be categorized as proper motorsailers from the propulsion point of view, so probably it's unnecessary to do so. In my opinion, I'd rather keep the term 'motorsailer' reserved as a category for monohulled boats, with a distinct emphasis for the pilothoused ones.

Cheers.

I have owned a 37' Banjer that I bought in Panama and extensively customized, including a bowsprit - the jib became a staysail and I made my own furler for the genoa - a roll furling mule sail subtended by a wishbone hinged on the backstay and sheeted on top of the same mizzen mast raised 3' and a storm spinnaker from a larger vessel. I sailed her full time for 7 years, including 2 transatlantic crossings and she was the sweetest vessel I have ever owned, averaging 5.5 to 6 knots under sail on long passages and doing once 12 knots under spinnaker and full main in a blow...

I sold her in 1985 and she's back on the market at a very reasonable price:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1971/Banjer-A-4%2C-Pilothouse-1601363/Merritt-Island/FL/United-States

10 years later I bought a 37' Fountaine Pajot catamaran, which I sailed from France to the Western Caribbean, via the Canaries and Cape Verde islands, She was marginally faster - Cape Verde to St Vincent in 14.5 days and 15 knots under spinnaker alone - but not anywhere as comfortable. In fact with a totally inexperienced crew of wife and 10 years old child, I hardly ever slept more than 20 minutes at a time and it was a very tiring experience due to lack of sleep and the usual quirky motion of catamarans...

Cruising cats are fine if you have an experienced crew on board and the bridgedeck clearance is at least 3', usually found in larger vessels of 45'+, otherwise the cat has to be sailed so conservatively that there is hardly any speed advantage, compared to a sea kindly monohull...

On the subject of Autoprops, they're unsuitable for vessels sailing at more than 8 or 9 knots. I had them fitted on my 37' catamaran - admittedly they were somewhat oversize - and with the gears locked into reverse to stop prop rotation under sail, the prop drag increased so much that both engines kick-started in reverse while doing 14/15 knots under spinnaker...

It took me a little while to figure out where all the sudden noise and vibrations came from the first time, as no rpm's were showing on the meters, since the ignition wasn't turned on but a look at the black smoke belching out of the exhausts soon resolved the issue. The speed with both engines in full reverse barely dropped a half knot and the problem occurred twice more before I locked the engines into forward, which seemed to work...

If I ever get another passagemaker, it'll likely be a 47/50' aluminium power boat, in the style/concept of the Dashew 64, designed for the geriatric crowd, but with a low drag canoe stern, capable of cruising at 8.5 knots (200 miles/day) at 4+ miles per gallon with a single John Deere engine and 1000 gallons of fuel, but I haven't seen one built like that yet...

[Guillermo]

Hi, Seagem!
I'd love to hear more from you and the times you owned ARAOK (the Banjer now for sale you mention).
Please send me a PM at: msclub<at>banjer37.net

Kind regards.

[RHP]

Guillermo, The Nordhavn MS 56 is one of my favorites I'm sure it'll get you anywhere, but I'll likely never afford it by retirement time. The Island Packet SP Cruiser 41 footer is a more likely candidate but wants for a controllable pitch prop. The price may be doable. I think you rated it an : H-15/29 on your Motorsailers and Motorsailing website (nice site, by the way). Very usable envelope I'd think but I wonder if it'd be better suited to a slow turning, fuel sipping engine and a larger prop. The available Genoa and captive reel system are requisite. I like the shoal draft and the forward cockpit would be nice with the remote control for the autopilot. OK, I'm getting really lazy now. Go ahead - put the cushions on the cockpit seats.

http://oceanlines.biz/2009/07/vessel-assist-salvages-launch-accident-nordhavn-56-motorsailer/


Ooopps.... :eek: