Monohull verses Multihull powersailers / motorsailers

[brian eiland]

Just came across this one
http://bamba-yachts.com/

Looks rather "Tennant"

Actually I thought it looked more like a smaller version of the 80-footer"Song Siagon"
#206 (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/motorsailers/monohull-verses-multihull-powersailers-motorsailers-4499-14.html#post435913)
#207 (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/motorsailers/monohull-verses-multihull-powersailers-motorsailers-4499-14.html#post435937)

[sabahcat]

Actually I thought it looked more like a smaller version of the 80-footer"Song Siagon"
#206 (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/motorsailers/monohull-verses-multihull-powersailers-motorsailers-4499-14.html#post435913)
#207 (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/motorsailers/monohull-verses-multihull-powersailers-motorsailers-4499-14.html#post435937)

Nah
Definitely Tennant
Look at the wave cracker and the double canoe hullshape aft

Song Saigon has none of those Tennant characteristics
http://www.song-saigon.com/images/Profile.gif

[brian eiland]

I was speaking more about her topsides and cabin appearance rather than the hull shape

[brian eiland]

Just came across this one
http://www.bamba-yachts.fr/trawler-catamaran/bamba50-bateau/DraggableImageBoxesGrid/images/large/31.jpg

Another aft-mast powersailer that appears to be using a rig similar to Lyra's concept:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/aftmast-rigs-623-32.html#post476490 (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/aftmast-rigs-623-32.html#post476490)

But I would guess Bamba's weight/sail area might make her sail performance suffer.

[brian eiland]

I've just got to 'set the stage' for my uncoming posting for real nice powercat design. Here is how the subject came up over on another forum....and I've included the gentleman's first posting here as I'm sure there are others looking to accomplish the same cruising lifestyle...but granted with a lot less to spend :rolleyes:

Hi mates, I am looking forward to obtaining feedback on a dream of mine to own a Yacht and explore the open waters. I have had a passion for boating all my life but due to finances I was lucky to expend 20,000 on a boat. None the less, I enjoyed getting my feet wet. I now have come into money and would like to persue my dream of owning one of the larger boats.

There are so many choices out there, that I am just overwhelmed with where to begin. The biggest boat I have owned is 20', and now I could be looking for a boat upwards of 100'. Reality check?:) I know nothing at this point, so will be grabbing all the information I can get. What I do know is I have 13 Million that I am willing to invest, but realistically I am going to have to scale the price back so that I can afford the upkeep/maint/operation costs of this new boat.

I am not sure what to shoot for. Is it realistic to spend 10 Mil on the boat and hanging onto 3 Mil for the operational costs for a 5 year period? I might be getting ahead of myself here, talking about costs already, because in reality I have no clue of what boat I am going to be pursuing.

I want to be able to go down the east coast around FL and into the Gulf. I would even enjoy going straight east for 100 Miles into the middle of no where into the Atlantic ocean. Like I said, Im a virgin to the limits of a boat and navigational capabilities.

I will act like a sponge and absorb all of the information I can get in the upcoming months. I am the type of person that doesn't require/desire any of the extreme bells and whistles. I don't need exotic wood, or any extreme eye candy for that matter. Simple oak finish and modest cosmetics are fine with me. I feel my money is best spent in the mechanical aspect of a boat. I want reliability and function above anything else.

My guess is perhaps I should be looking at a newer yacht. My plans will be to pretty much live on this boat for the next 5 years with my wife. Just a little about myself. I am a handyman in the arts of carpentry, and have even gone as far as overhauling/restoring a 65 mustang. :) I have no problem doing basic repairs and getting my hands dirty. I actually welcome/enjoy doing upkeep and maint myself, but I know my limits. Thank you for reading my post and hopefully getting enough feedback to assist me with direction.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Mick

It appeared here, if you want to read that subject thread.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/15706-new-yachting-13-million-spend.html

[brian eiland]

...here was my initial reply

I thought I would present the case for smaller vessels, and shallow draft vessels.

Let me precede this opinion of mine by stating that in the past I have lived aboard a 60 foot Chris Craft power yacht and a 47 foot sailing craft for 2 & 3 years respectively. I've moved up and down the east coast, cruised the Bahamas for 8 months, sailed down to St Thomas and St Barts on several occasions, and island hopped from Florida down to Venezuela. I also spent 13 years in the boat business on the Chesapeake Bay based out of Annapolis MD.

Most recently I have been exploring the possibilities of moving back aboard a vessel of some sort (maybe even a floating house) with my new wife from Thailand, for that portion of the year we will be spending in the USA. I'm having to brainstorm, what minimum size and type of vessel might meet our liveaboard needs, yet be affordable?? I'm looking at a variety of ideas, and a variety of used boats. I have always been a BIG fan of MotorSailers (http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-sailing-discussion/6710-motor-sailers-philip-rhodes-john-alden.html), and catamaran ones in particular, and if I could afford it I would be very tempted to build one of my own designs (http://www.runningtideyachts.com/). But in reality most of my designs are just a little too big for an owner/operater couple,.... at least bigger than necessary, thus requiring elevated operating expenses, maintenance expenses, and dockage expenses. On the other hand the catamaran hull form does offer several great attributes....shallow draft, greater accommodations within a spacial distribution for privacy in a shorter length vessel,....and level stability that women love (very important).

So what might I recommend for your needs, Mick??

1) First off I would lead you to vessel of less than 60 feet. I think you should consider a vessel size that you can fairly quickly become acquainted with handling yourself. This will inspire your self-confidence to go exploring on your own (you and your wife), without feeling the absolute need for a third party captain. You can take your friends out for an afternoon or weekend cruise without feeling the need for an operator. (I once worked for an owner who specifically ask that I take vacation off the vessel when he came to spend time on the vessel with his wife).

2) As you are brand new to boating I would NOT suggest any sail power, although you may come to appreciate it in the future once you experience it on someone else's vessel. (have a peek at these two videos I just posted recently (http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/123517-post55.html))

3) I would NOT suggest a new-build (custom project) until you've had a chance to experience some portion of your dream afloat and can make a more informed decision as to your likes/dislikes.

4) I would suggest a nice stable vessel, with a nice house size galley, and a comfortable bathroom (head as it is known). These features are very important for the liveaboard aspect, and they are VERY important for the lady (I'm assuming you really do want to make this dream last for at least 5 years...:))

5) I would suggest a vessel with shallow draft and well protected props and shaft systems. The protected props and shafts will save you a lot of heartache and money when you make those few mistakes that many new boaters (and a few older ones as well) make on occasions.

I can't emphasis SHALLOW DRAFT enough. Here I am defining shallow draft as 4 feet or less. The Chesapeake Bay (America's largest inland water bay) has a few navigable deep water channels, but the vast majority of its area is 4.5 feet of water or less on average. If you truly want to explore the Chesapeake Bay and its many tributaries (one of the truly great cruising areas), you better have a shallow draft vessel. Ditto for the Outer Banks of NC (I once did them in a 37 foot sailing cat that I could kick up its CB's and rudders to draft only 24 inches). Its nice to have a shallow draft for the Florida keys, and the 10,000 island area of SW Florida, and those inside waterway passages of the west coast of Florida. Gunkholing is so much fun, and you miss some of this fun when your vessel draws too much water....you end up passing many delightful spots for fear of running aground.

If you are intending to do the east coast, then around Florida, you might well consider doing the popular 'Great Loop' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop), up the Mississippi, to the Great Lakes, down the Erie Canal, etc.

And don't forget the Bahamas that whole chain of islands is structured on a shallow ocean shelf that is a delight to go cruising across rather than around, especially with those crystal clear waters. Shallow draft is king!

I started out to write this posting and make a suggestion of a few possible smaller vessels that I had recently become aware of...several of them being production mono-hulls. But as I read my own words, I can't help but think of this wonderful vessel I just spent a few days aboard in Palm Beach. It was recently purchased by a good friend of mine for his own liveaboard & treasure hunting purposes, so it is not available. I'll present a few details and photos as an example of what I consider a really nice liveaboard cruising vessel that is not too audacious while accomplishing most of what you have in mind plus a few extras...great dive and explore boat.

This is a 62' powercat (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/wood-epoxy-longevity/) that was custom built by an associate in wood/epoxy/composite. I'll post some pics I took while visiting. Look at the interior room available in this vessel,....and that great galley and big saloon. One master stateroom in one hull, and two guest staterooms in the other. Then how about the great aft deck and its additional galley, outdoor grill, and dining area. This vessel drafts 3.5 feet, and is powered by two 6 cyl Cummins engines of 210HP . It will do 17 knots while using a fraction of the fuel of many yachts this size. It is highly maneuverable with those twin props widely spaced apart. Its easy to get on and off the tender from those swim platforms, and in fact could easily carry two tenders (his and hers), or other water toys. It has a generator and a watermaker, and a highly insulated refrig box and freezer that only requires running one engine once every two days. Its self-sufficient. The cost...less than $1M. I envy his choice.

See what can happen in only 60 feet!! And you and your wife could fully handle this vessel by yourselves.

Regards, Brian
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[brian eiland]

And here is an article I had saved from an old issue of Power Multihulls. (attached PDF}

I had previously underlined a number of details in this article. Here are just a few excerpts I thought I might emphasize:

Fuel Usage:
"Total fuel burned was ninety gallons, a bit over one nautical mile per gallon. With a fuel capacity of 1500 gals Hunmmingbyrd could easily transit 1,200 nautical miles at 18 knots, and double that at 12 knots"

Shallow Water Speed:
"Entering the multi-hued, shallow water on the bank, I watched our boat speed increase 2 knots as the big cat began to 'feel the bottom'. Orrin explains the phenomenon. The hydrodynamic hull form produces a wave that provides lift when the water is twelve feet deep or less, literally pushing the boat forward. He pulled the throttle back to 1800 rpms and we maintained 18 knots. His experience shows that it is actually more economical to run the shallow waters of the ICW than to go outside due to this effect"

Rough Water Operation:
"Entering Whale Cay Cut I noticed the catamaran has a slightly annoying quick motion in a beam sea. The six-foot swells were piling into the shallow water, and they began to break across the channel. Orrin pushed the throttle up until we were motoring along at 18 knots, and incredibly the ride smoothed out. Orrin assures me that 25 knots is perfectly comfortable in any seas up to about 8 feet"

...and read that conclusion in the article

[Squidly-Diddly]

when running in proportionally shallow water?

Same with kayaks and canoes, so it isn't anything to do with sliding seat or oars.

"Entering the multi-hued, shallow water on the bank, I watched our boat speed increase 2 knots as the big cat began to 'feel the bottom'. Orrin explains the phenomenon. The hydrodynamic hull form produces a wave that provides lift when the water is twelve feet deep or less, literally pushing the boat forward. He pulled the throttle back to 1800 rpms and we maintained 18 knots. His experience shows that it is actually more economical to run the shallow waters of the ICW than to go outside due to this effect"

[brian eiland]

Interesting article I ran across in SAIL magazine that includes both monos and multis

Cruising Criteria: How to Pick the Best Cruiser
http://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising-tips/cruising-criteria