View Full Version : seaworthy, bigger i-550... suggestions?


peterchech
08-10-2011, 04:17 PM
I really like the concept behind the i-550. I would like to see plans for something similar, but slightly bigger with some basic accommodations (one burner stove, porta-potti, small double berth). It would be for coastal cruising, and occassional offshore hops. (no transat though lol)

What I really like about the i-550 is the chined plywood S&G hull is easy and fast to build, I like its lifting keel, and obviously its planing hull/high speed. Oh, and it is lightweight enough for me to trail it without a huge SUV.

Lucas was offering plans for a chined mini 6.5, but his website is down and I don't know where to find specs and plans for it. Plus I doubt it has a lifting keel, and trailering that may not be realistic.

Is there anything out there similar to the i-550 but with more cabin space???

Doug Lord
08-10-2011, 06:29 PM
There may be a couple of boats in this thread-and some links that may be helpful. Good Luck! http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/21st-century-daysailer-weekender-30756.html

UPDATE: you might contact "Timber" who is a member here and the owner of the I-550 rights and/or Chris Beckwith the designer for some ideas....

CutOnce
08-10-2011, 06:31 PM
There are almost as many designs in this range as there are designers. Given today's economy, you can buy a used 25-30' weekend style boat for far less than the materials to build one. And you don't have to sand and fair for weeks. Scary but true is the fact that you can probably BUY a complete used boat for the parts necessary to rig a new build - at half the price of buying the rigging a piece at a time at the chandlers. It is absolutely staggering what masts, booms, sails, standing and running rigging, line and foils cost.

Building a boat can be a life-changing experience, but do not do it because you think you will save money, end up with great value or be able to sell it for double what it cost. Build because the build process delivers some value to you other than the boat - if building is just a means to an end you are way better off to buy.

You might want to look at PAR's designs, Graham Byrnes designs (B&B Yacht Designs (http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/)) - There is an area to this site where you can find hundreds of designs and designers (http://www.boatdesign.net/Directory/Designers/). One thing to note about the conversations here - many of the designs discussed are NOT real, have NOT been built, and have no existing class for racing, socializing or resale value. You have to separate the vapor-ware from the real thing - or you could spend a lot of time and money talking to the wrong people. Don't dismiss racing because you aren't interested - racing one design classes and PHRF racing is the single best way to have some confidence in resale value and adding a very important social scene to your participation in the sport. My club has a sad stretch of dock where all the misfits, orphans and many one-off homebuilts live - make sure you would be happy there instead of with a group of friends.

Take a very hard look at your requirements - and available budget. If you've got less than $10-$20,000 to spend - don't consider a new build - you can buy a used boat for a fraction of that. I hate to blow away the romantic dream and thoughts of glistening varnish, but you are looking at hundreds of hours of hard dirty work.

Then again, I like to build boats.
--
CutOnce

frank smith
08-10-2011, 09:33 PM
I saw a design by a French designer that was about 40'. So it will work .
F

PAR
08-10-2011, 10:57 PM
Peter, you'll have to refine you desires a bit, which will help narrow your search parameters. The the general size range I think you're looking for and as CutOnce has mentioned, there are literally thousands of choices. The 18' to 20' range is the largest of all and there are lots of options. Your desires have some conflicts, such as cabin accommodations, porta-potti, V berth (assumed) and a light weight go fast package. There are preformance oriented cruisers, but they'll get eaten alive by a i550 if similarly sized. Look around, there's plenty to select from once you refine your SOR.

Have a look at the Vagabond 18 (> http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/VG18_study.htm?prod=VG18 <), which is the same length, but has accommodations in a preformance oriented package. Or her bigger sister the Vagabond 20 (> http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/VG20_study.htm?prod=VG20 <). Both are considerably larger then the i550 in terms of hull volume.

luckystrike
08-11-2011, 06:55 AM
.. like the concept behind the i-550. I would like to see plans for something similar, but slightly bigger with some basic accommodations (one burner stove, porta-potti, small double berth). It would be for coastal cruising, and occassional offshore hops.

What I really like about the i-550 is the chined plywood S&G hull is easy and fast to build, I like its lifting keel, and obviously its planing hull/high speed. Oh, and it is lightweight enough for me to trail it without a huge SUV.

Is there anything out there similar to the i-550 but with more cabin space???

Hi Peter,

I had the same idea after sailing on a i550, as the original will not work in our home waters, wich are quite rough. A friend of mine asked C. Beckwith for a bigger version, but other than announced on the duckworks homepage, there will be no new design from him in the near future.

A simple 20% scale up will not work with the design for various reasons. So what shall I say, I have a new design on my drawing board, currently in concept stage to see if it could be a good design and if my ideas are realistic. I will place my design between the i550 and a simple minitransat like the didi minitransat to get a cheap and simple lightwheight fun machine with a little living space and enough righting moment.

Preliminary Data: LoA 6.5m, BoA 2.80m, BWL 1.7m, Draft 1.6m, Freeboard 0.85m, Mast height over deck 8.5m, main & jib ~32m². Wheigts: hull ~300 - 350kg, ballast ~200kg, rig & eqiupment ~150kg, crew & payload ~300kg = displ. ~1000kg.

Features: simple 3 panel hull built over 6 bulkheads and chinestringers. glass sheating. you will loose 3 or 4 workingdays with this building method, but you get a more accurate hull and save two 180° hull turnings. 2.4m open cockpit, lifting keel, two rudder arangement, 3 or 4 bunks, space for a 2 burner stove and portapotti, comfortable sitting headroom 1,20m, standard aluminium mast with double spreaders up to the top for masthead gennaker & screecher. Squaretop mainsail, shrouds mounted out at the gunwale, no backstays. Racks behind the seats for storing drinking water as water ballast (60kg). generous righting moment for safe sailing (capsize stability). Legal trailerability with a canting trailer as the j24 has it, but much more simple and low due to the simple hullform and lifting keel. Trailer and Boat are around 900 - 1000 kg, thats no problem for a VW Golf if you have no mountains on your way.

Materials: ~ 23 sheets of 6 and 8mm Okume plywood (5ply, marine grade) for hull, deck and basic interior.
60 - 70kg multi purpose epoxy (West 105 or similar), glas sheating, local available lumber, no exotics.

Sorry, in the moment I have no drawings, just hand made scetches and my scanner is not working so I cannot post them now. I will have some in two or three weeks time when I will start to design it.

Greetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel

peterchech
08-11-2011, 11:50 AM
Sounds alot like what I'm looking for Michel. Problem is I just think that once you get into mini 6.5 sizes, the costs begin to explode. We are talking about 6K for an i550 if you're a good scrounger, and at least double that for a ply mini 6.5 (assuming rig/etc are not the top of the line race-ready sort, which would cost much more)

I spoke with Tim, license holder of the i550 plans. Apparently there have been alot of requests similar to mine. One guy modified the boat by making it a foot longer, but the balance wasn't got just right and the boat would occasionally round up under spinnaker. He suggested I may want to extend the cabin out to the gunwhales to get some more interior space. He says there is sitting headroom, though from the looks of it he means sitting with your legs directly in front of you, so I'm not too sure how a porta potti would work for the girlfriend...

He's gonna try and set me up to check out an i-550 in the northeast. I can't commend the customer service enough, he answered my questions and more, and then responded within hours to my e-mailed questions.

CutOnce
08-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Sounds alot like what I'm looking for Michel. Problem is I just think that once you get into mini 6.5 sizes, the costs begin to explode. We are talking about 6K for an i550 if you're a good scrounger, and at least double that for a ply mini 6.5 (assuming rig/etc are not the top of the line race-ready sort, which would cost much more)

I spoke with Tim, license holder of the i550 plans. Apparently there have been alot of requests similar to mine. One guy modified the boat by making it a foot longer, but the balance wasn't got just right and the boat would occasionally round up under spinnaker. He suggested I may want to extend the cabin out to the gunwhales to get some more interior space. He says there is sitting headroom, though from the looks of it he means sitting with your legs directly in front of you, so I'm not too sure how a porta potti would work for the girlfriend...

He's gonna try and set me up to check out an i-550 in the northeast. I can't commend the customer service enough, he answered my questions and more, and then responded within hours to my e-mailed questions.

I've talked with people that have built one, and Shazza (an Aussie builder) commented that his better half had no trouble with a porta potty in the cabin. Shazza is a long cabin/short cockpit build, but I can't see any material differences between the short cockpit design in terms of this kind of situation.

The extended one (currently for sale at a bargain price under $10k actually) is Carbon Offset - it was built for PHRF racing and they added a two foot sugar scoop removable extension to fit within the California PHRF rules. It is raceable as a one design i550 with the sugar scoop removed.

If you are willing to accept the pup-tent sized accommodations, I can't think of a better economical build than an i550. If you are serious, Carbon Offset (advertised on S/A) is a real bargain. You could not build one for the same money - and you'd be on the water one season sooner. And you've got a PHRF ticket already.

--
CutOnce

Tad
08-11-2011, 02:25 PM
A few years back design Rob Humphreys did a series of performance plywood kit boats for Yachting World......there was the H22 and some others.....I don't know what happened to the project but they were interesting designs.......

luckystrike
08-11-2011, 09:46 PM
Problem is I just think that once you get into mini 6.5 sizes, the costs begin to explode. We are talking about 6K for an i550 if you're a good scrounger, and at least double that for a ply mini 6.5 (assuming rig/etc are not the top of the line race-ready sort, which would cost much more)

I spoke with Tim, license holder of the i550 plans. Apparently there have been alot of requests similar to mine. One guy modified the boat by making it a foot longer, but the balance wasn't got just right and the boat would occasionally round up under spinnaker. He suggested I may want to extend the cabin out to the gunwhales to get some more interior space. He says there is sitting headroom, though from the looks of it he means sitting with your legs directly in front of you, so I'm not too sure how a porta potti would work for the girlfriend...


Hello Peter,

I have always an eye on building costs when I design a boat. My boat has nothing to to with a minitransat, its still a cheap sportboat using the same cost-efficient sharpie hull concept as the i550 does. No 10m tall Mast, no canting keel, no 300+kg of lead in the keel bulb, no carbon. The i550 needs 18 sheets of ply, my design needs 5 sheets more and 10 more kg of Epoxy. No big deal in my eyes. I expect around 2k more, mainly for the extra material and for the big squaretop mainsail. If you are good on eBay-ing it should come out nearly the same as if you are buying from stock for the i550 at your local dealer.

You wanted a more seaworthy boat for coastal cruising, a better usable interior with comfortable bunks, stove and having the same performance for a lot of fun. The only way to get this is a bigger boat and in this case, a new design. Take a sail on an i550 and you will see that it is definetly no cruising boat with comfortable bunks.

By the way ... if your girlfriend has a problem with a portapotti in the cabin, give her a bucket in the cockpit.

Grreetings from The North Sea Coast, Michel

peterchech
08-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Take a sail on an i550 and you will see that it is definetly no cruising boat with comfortable bunks.

By the way ... if your girlfriend has a problem with a portapotti in the cabin, give her a bucket in the cockpit.l

LOL Michel you must be single ;):D:D

Maybe I need to find a german girlfriend?

Put up some pics of your design. You gonna build it sometime soon?

I imagine the i550 doesn't have much space, but here's the deal. I found a hunter 24 for sail, 1981 in excellent shape, that I can buy for around 3K. Very comfortable inside. Problem is, I have to keep it somewhere. Around me a mooring goes for about $2500 per summer. Plus then I need to haul it out and store it. That costs $1100. If I want to trailer it somewhere, I need to buy a trailer. When it's on the water, I have to pay to store the trailer. Since the boat weighs 4000# (about) and my car can only tow 1500#, I would have to rent a truck just to tow it somewhere, more $$$$.... oh, and my lightly faired, slapped together outrigger canoe would have a higher cruising speed than this expensive boat.

On the other hand, a boat like the i550 is light enough to tow, small enough that I can store it on the trailer during the winter at my catamaran club, and with its minimal draft, small size and light weight I can use the club mooring in the summer which is about 100' off the beach at high tide. Club costs $550 per year, and I would still be able to sail my outrigger canoe there when I please, plus they have lots of races (monohulls are welcome) that a small boat like the i550 could participate in. Not that I would seriously race it, but those things are alot of fun even just to participate in. Downside is, of course, the 550 cabin appears to be a floating "pup tent" lol. But if I extend the cabin out to the gunwhales, and maybe raise it a few inches, wouldn't that improve things? I just wonder what the DWL is of the 550...

A really small glass pocket cruiser of the same size might have slightly more accomodations, and similar storage costs, but again, after sailing on multis it's hard to accept a 4.5 knot max cruising speed...

I guess I know why some people own 12 different boats...

luckystrike
08-14-2011, 10:04 AM
LOL Michel you must be single ;):D:D

Maybe I need to find a german girlfriend?

Put up some pics of your design. You gonna build it sometime soon?


Hi Peter, no, Iam not single. If you want that your girlfriend uses a bucket you have to educate her. Go sailing with her on a long trip without a habour along the way. Time will do the rest. If this is not enough, tell her about Johannes Kepler, who died because of Harnverhaltung (?) (he were always consitingly working instead go and have a pee sometimes.

What a car do you have that you can tow only 750kg? A Smart? My Fiat Stilo is a realy small car but tows away 1000kg if the trailer has his own brakes. May be its your local regulations for traffic.

Anyway, I will be buisy in the next days and post some first images. Give me two weeks time-. I understand that just some data, this in the wrong measurement system for your thinking ... is hard to imagine how a big i550 will look like.

But in general: Even with the big design you can use your cheap cat club mooring if it has 2 feet of water. A trailer is a trailer and has to be bought or built ... 550 or 650 no big difference.

For myself I will not build one. My private workshop ist buisy with my 30 foot tri for one year minimum.

Grrreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel

peterchech
08-15-2011, 09:51 AM
Hahahaha that reminds me of my dog. As a puppy my girlfriend fed it boiled chicken and rice because it didn't want to eat dog food. Eventually this had to stop, so against my girlfriend's wishes I insisted that only dog food be left in her plate. She would get hungry eventually...

By day two the pup was crunching happily on her kibble :-)


Keppler died from not taking a piss? haha it is incredibly difficult to balance a kayak and take a piss I suppose but come on ;-)

luckystrike
08-18-2011, 05:37 AM
Kepler died from not taking a piss? haha it is incredibly difficult to balance a kayak and take a piss I suppose but come on ;-)

Johannes Kepler was the guy who said that the Earth is a planet and isnt in the center of the universe and made Calculations about the plantes movement.

I don't think his hobby was kayaking.

Best Regards, Michel

luckystrike
08-31-2011, 06:20 AM
Hi Peter,

here it is what you want. My first concept of a simple, very fast, easy and cheap to build, campcuiser with useable space inside.

The design title is: Coastline Flyer 6.5

Accomodation: 3 to 4 full size berths, 4'+ inside sitting height.

lifting keel with draft from 1' fully retracted to 5' 6'' maximum. Intermediate position for sailing in shallow waters is possible where you want to have it.

A lightly built boat should come out of the shed with 550 to 580 kg (~1210 - 1280 lbs) boatwheight, a displ. of 950kg (2090 lbs) giving a payload for crew and gear of 370 kg ( 814 lbs).

Check out yourself if it is much more expensive than the original. The biggest cost factors are:

- max. 25 sheets of 1/4'' and 3/8'' marine ply, for hull, structure, deck, cockpit, deckshouse and basic interior. 2 sheets less if you can get 2 sheets of 10'x5'x3/8' for the bottom.

- local grown lumber, no exotics

~ 60kg of Epoxy (West 105 or similar)

~ 300 - 350 lbs leadballast

~ 30 yards 6 oz glas sheeting

~ mast 28 to 29'', can be taken from a Soling (or similar) open keelboat modified to fit the boat. double spreader (18footerstyle) rig, no backstays.

-three small 1 gear winches, traveller, gennaker boom from reinforced windsurfer mast,

The renderings shown are absoutly preliminary to get an first impression, not faired yet. Calculations are done with safety factors. The rig plan is a handmade sketch to show how a 8.8m (29') mast will look on a 6.5m boat.

Have Fun with it!

Happy dreaming, Michel

60706 60707 60708

Munter
08-31-2011, 10:40 PM
Nice work - an amazing similarity to the i550, at least at a superficial level.

jelfiser
09-01-2011, 02:57 AM
have a look here .. is a new project made in strip plank / pvc-wood sandwich.
http://ckdboats.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-design-we-can-offer.html

luckystrike
09-01-2011, 04:29 AM
Nice work - an amazing similarity to the i550, at least at a superficial level.

Hi Munter,

I hope you mean ""superficial" in a technical manner and not in a social one! :D

Otherwise you are right. the optics are quite equal, but thats just the fact that the form follows its function. If you want lightweight, high performance, minimum costs and fast construction with the 3 panel plywood hull of a sharpie, your room for individuality is really small. You have to cut everything down to the absolute minimum. From overhangs to structure. Remember that you have to take care of the standart 4'x8' measures of plywood sheets as well.


Everything that is a design issue, really is a independent aspect of this boat. Trim, volume distribution, flow of water around the hull etc.

Grrreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel

luckystrike
09-01-2011, 05:36 AM
have a look here .. is a new project made in strip plank / pvc-wood sandwich.


Dear Jelfiser,

Nice looking boat, no question! But we are talking here about a total different kind of design concept.

strip plank/pvc-wood sandwich rounded hull vs. plywood 3 panel sharpie hull. Do you have just a slight impression what that means in the amount of costs and man hours?

Michel

fcfc
09-01-2011, 06:43 AM
François Lucas web site :
http://www.fr-lucas.com/base_1077.aspx#Ancredetail

Dudley Dix Mini cruiser version:
http://www.dixdesign.com/didiminicruise.htm

Beware of trailering, all mini 6.50 are near 3m (10 ft) beam. You need an inclined trailer to fit legal width ( http://www.classemini.com/modules/kameleon/upload/transport.jpg )

fcfc
09-01-2011, 06:50 AM
About same size as I 550. Slightly heavier. Stich and glue.

http://www.enthousiaste.com/blog/?page_id=58

timber
09-02-2011, 02:49 PM
I like your drawing.

I am the owner of the i550 design and have experience enough to not just expand the i550 to a 650, 750, 850, 1100, 2200 et cetera. sometimes it is hard to resist the temptation of what if we...........
It is not simple even if it looks simple. Wind, water and hull shape are complex in relation to each other. I don't know enough yet to design a sailboat.
For the small number of potential builders of any boat I think it necessary to help as much as any of us can to encourage and inform these brave souls of the home workshop.
TR

luckystrike
09-03-2011, 03:49 AM
I like your drawing.

I am the owner of the i550 design and have experience enough to not just expand the i550 to a 650, 750, ... sometimes it is hard to resist the temptation of what if we...........
It is not simple even if it looks simple. Wind, water and hull shape are complex in relation to each other. I don't know enough yet to design a sailboat.
For the small number of potential builders of any boat I think it necessary to help as much as any of us can to encourage and inform these brave souls of the home workshop.
TR

I agree, when I made my first thoughts about a scale up with the little information I had (no building or lines plan) it was obvious very early that my Costline Flyer will be a total independent project with individual lines.

Michel

luckystrike
06-25-2012, 09:29 AM
Hi Folks,

just a little update to this thread. Design work is finished and I decided to build a model in 1:5 scale, equipped with RC. I did this very succesful with my coastal sharpie and it was a satisfying experience.

The mayor differences to the posted images are that the whole cabin will be moved one foot aft, cutting the cockpit length down to 7' and maximising the cabin space where the boat has its max beam. There are 4 full size bunks now.

Here are the latest photos of the model built. I hope I will have the model sailing in the beginning of september.

71722 71723 71724 71725 71726

SteveMellet
06-26-2012, 11:41 AM
What about Eric Henseval`s Aveateur ? 5,7m long, max. beam 2,5m so legal towing width in most places. There`s a lot of clever ideas in that boat.
http://hensevalyd-english.jimdo.com/works-and-creations/aviateur-5-70m/

luckystrike
06-27-2012, 05:10 PM
What about Eric Henseval`s Aveateur ? 5,7m long, max. beam 2,5m so legal towing width in most places. There`s a lot of clever ideas in that boat.
http://hensevalyd-english.jimdo.com/works-and-creations/aviateur-5-70m/

A friendly hello,

this thread is titled "seaworthy, bigger i550 ... and is looking for a cruiser racer, not a mini cruiser for offshore adventures. The aviateur is designed to be an offshore boat and a lot of features to underline this.

The ideas and details are clever, no question, but the most of them are useless for a speed machine with a little cruising comfort.

This kind of boat is normally operated by people who have not so much money in their pocket. So, in my eye's its essential to have good bunks on your boat where the crew can sleep and a little stove to make hot drinks. Just to keep the costs down. Even a little nav station and a porta potti is worth of thinking if you want to sail longer coastal races, but the first wish for a Cruiser Racer is Speeeeed. I think I have found a good compromise between Speed, Comfort and Costs.

Expect that the 3' longer CF 6.6 will be equal, or even cheaper in costs than the Aviateur. Just in Materials, not in man hours that will be lower anyway.

Even the trailer for the CF, which has to be inclineable to reduce the width of the boat to be legal (just 25cm in Europe), can be built at home if you have a fellow welder, thanks to the lifting keel and the flat bottom of the sharpie hull.

Ragards, Michel

SteveMellet
06-27-2012, 06:58 PM
Hi Michel,
Apologies if I offended, If I read the originator of this thread`s requirements, he is looking for a bigger boat than the i550, but with some similarities, ie S&G plywood build, easy to trailer, some small comforts below decks, and good speed. His stated use is coastal cruising and short open water journeys, with that in mind, outright speed can be sacrificed for other attributes that would make a better all-round boat for his intended uses. A scaled up i550 design will do the job he is asking, but so would many other boats, Aviateur included, though perhaps it may be too slow for your liking. I would have also liked to suggest Dudley Dix`s mini-transat cruising version, though with that beam a tilt-trailer would be a necessity, and make trailering more difficult. And someone else already recommended it. I would personally choose this one for the speed potential, but would prefer Aviateur for simple launching (no tilt-trailer).

A boat I`d seriously consider if I were looking in this market is Pterodactyl by Colson Yacht Designs, though not all S&G built, the bottom is strip-planked, with a centreboard instead of a lifting keel, which makes sense in shallow sandbank areas.
http://www.colsonyachtdesign.com.au/?pid=13

Let`s keep an open mind here, there is more than one design that can fit the original poster`s requirements.

luckystrike
06-28-2012, 08:04 AM
Steve,

sorry, it was late last night and I had to correct one or two word in my last post today. Perhaps you read it again.

No, Iam not offended. I re-read the opening post and you are right ... Peter is seeking a boat with a little space for living and a better safety. I interpreted his statemant that he wants to keep the advantages of the i550 (speed, low cost, easy building) and want to add his wishes the original can not provide due to the fact that its too small. You cannot even sit inside a i550. In my Eyes this is a planing cruiser racer, a sportsboat with bunks, nothing else.

I think you have never used a tilting trailer, this is nothing difficult. Just one additional steel or aluminium frame and a few bolts. you can tilt the boat by hand upright for rigging and slipping. It has nothing to with the trailerability of a Minitransat with 2 Meter Draft. CF has a lifting keel so it lays flat on the trailer.

I stayed with the sharpie hull concept because I simply like it! A good compromise between building time, costs, and fun.

If I take this as my base and compare it to the mentioned alternatives there is one big drawback minimum on each design

Didi Mini Cruise: Fail in cost and labour. Please compare the material list on the Didi site to my calculation. Take a look at the building blog of the Didi and watch the Gougeons Brothers building a i550 on youtube.

Colson ... a 7 meter very sexy looking trailer sailer??? okay but its round bottomed ... again manhours and costs. I would have suggested the colson 650 as a alternative, this boat is nearer at the wishlist.

Enthusiast Serpentine 5,51: A cruiser with greetings from the 1960s and '70s, but in no way a cruiser-racer, able to plane.

Fracois Lucas Mini CP: ist a minitransat and therefore expensive by nature because of their high power rig and the 300+kg of ballast, canting keel etc.

Aviateur: beside being a cruiser for transatlantics (designers words), if you have the same building costs and -time and you definetly don't want to cross the ocean ... would you build a 5,7m Boat or a 6.6m?

I think I have an open mind for alternatives, but please stay with the given requirements.

ok, here is a roomier microcupper, called "Micro - B"

http://www.segger-boote.de/uebersicht.htm look at "Trailerkreuzer" and then down to Micro-B

Best Regards, Michel

Andy
05-04-2013, 06:41 AM
Did you finish you model Michel? I've been playing around with sharpie type hull designs too, fascinating

View Full Version : seaworthy, bigger i-550... suggestions?