Simms Jet Boat Impellor

[scouter]

I need some help in identifying the impellor in the Photograph.

It is from a Simms Jetboat that ny Scout troop use as a safety boat, unfortunately a stone managed to wangle its way in and clipped off one of the wings.

I have looked at the Jet Unit for a manufacturers mark but cannot find any.

[baeckmo]

Looking very much like a PP impeller. Can you take the diameter of the inlet, just where the leading edge tipis rotating? Also, what is the shaftdia at impeller, the engine power and rpm?

[scouter]

Baeckmo

Thanks for your reply

I will get all the info together and post it

[windydave13]

It might also be a West End unit. The impellor looks very similar to the one in mine which also looks very much like a PP unit. The only identifying feature on mine is that West End is cast into the reverse bucket!!
Also if you remove the plastic collet from inside the impellor, you might find a ref number cast into the imprellor
If it is a West End unit theres a chap called Sam at west end on 01924 478060. He might be worth a shout to see if he can sort a new one out.
It'd be intereseting to know how you get on and what kind of cost is associated. I'm in the process of rebuilding mine, but trying to get away without replacing the impellor.

If you can post pictures of the whole jet unit i'm sure someone on here might be able to identify the make and model

[anthony goodson]

Simms made a few jets in house, if my memory serves me correctly PP impellers fitted these and presumably, as Dave says ,West End as well. They were all 6.5 inches inlet dia.

[scouter]

Folks

Thank you for all of the excellent advice

I have a friend of mine taking the measurments this evening
In the meantime I have taken more pictures of the unit.

There is no ref number cast into the impellor as far as I can see

I hope that some of the new photographs might throw some light on the make and model

Regards
Liam - Scouter

[windydave13]

It's definitely not a west end like mine.

Someone posted a similar question last year on :
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/jet-drives/sims-super-v-jetboat-33953.html

I've only skimmed through it but there might be some extra info in there for you

Regards

Dave

[anthony goodson]

If you follow Dave's link you will read my opinion then,it's still my opinion now ,unless anyone knows better. Hopefully Baeckmo will be back in a minute there was a jet made in Sweden ,about this size ,I have never seen one ,Almarin or something similar.

[baeckmo]

Aaah hello Anthony, you also burning the midnight oil...... Afraid that we can rule out the smallest Alamarine as well; it has a longer outboard portion and those I have seen have had bronze impellers (this looks like alu??). That probably leads us back to square one; it is a Simms of sorts.

But if Anthony is right (and he normally is...) a PP 65 impeller might be a reasonable substitute. To get it right you have to provide engine power and rpm. The questions still open are shaft dia, shape of seat for the nylon collet, inlet dia and housing taper. If no other solution is found, a new blade can be welded to the hub, but that is not the first option.

[scouter]

Thanks Lads

I am burning the midnight oil as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A bit like the Irish Banks !

The boat is powered by a Ford Escort 1.4 EFI Engine

I will get all the measurements tomorrow

Regards
Liam

[anthony goodson]

Good morning Baeckmo,I was on a late flight from Spain back to the UK, better not to try to sleep right away. I have never seen this kind of damage caused to only one blade by a stone ,small enough to have bypassed the grill and with no apparent damage to the stator vane leading edges ,but there is always a first time. What I have seen is a missing blade ,caused by impeller removal involving ,stripped plastic threads ,a piece of wood and a lump hammer ,due to a misunderstanding of the principle of a taper lock bush.This may not be the case here ,but if it were the missing parts would be available, and if you are right about aluminium ,which I am sure you are ,they will be LM6 or LM25 both weldable if not too dezinctified. I would never accuse anyone of plagerism but the internals here look very similar to a PP65 ,in which case it should be repairable one way or another. Liam ,the Irish Banks should be burning their books.

[scouter]

Lads

The internal diameter for the impellor housing is 190mm

The diameter of the shaft is 25mm

The Impellor is 37mm Id at narrow end and 51mm other end

The Nylon Sleeve is 80 mm in length ID at narrow end is 25mm and OD 36mm

[anthony goodson]

The impeller runs in a tapered stainless steel wear ring. We need the ID of this ring at each end of the taper. I suspect you have just measured the larger ID on the rear edge.

[scouter]

Anthony

Thanks for that

I will put on My Homer Simpson Hat - Doh !!!!!!!!! LOL

I will get someone to measure at each end of the taper

Liam

[windydave13]

Liam,

As my jet is in bits on the bench at the moment, i'll measure mine up tonight such that if it is the same you could potentially get a new one via West End.

Regards

Dave

[anthony goodson]

Liam in case I forget ,or get run over or something ,the "nylon sleeve" is not nylon it is polyacetal ,this is important ,if you have to make one. Nylon will absorb water and potentially swell enough to split an aluminium impeller. Make one ? I hear you say ,well just wait till you check out the price of a new one. A piece of rod from e-bay and a friend with a lathe can be a good option.

[scouter]

Lads

Sorry for going missing off the forum for a few days, i was on camp with my scouts over the weekend.

I touched base with Sam in Westend this morning, a lovely helpful person, and i have sent my old impellor off to him in the post.

Fingers crossed that he will be able to work his magic charm on it.

I will keep you all posted on developments and a great big
THANK YOU who all contributed to my plight

Yours in Scouting
Liam
Group Leader

[windydave13]

Liam, excellent news.

Out of interest did Sam give you a ball park figure for a new one??

Regards

Dave

[scouter]

NOPE

He said he might be able to fix the old one though

Liam

[scouter]

Additional Info

He said that he was going to contact the foundry that has the template for the impellor as he has been inundated over the past month or so with calls from people regarding impellors. - a feast or a famine -

[anthony goodson]

Liam ,if you look up my post of 13th August last year ,you will find instructions for reinstalling the impeller.

[scouter]

Update - I posted off the impellor to Sam by Air mail, and thanks to the Irish Postal system it took over a week for it to travel accross the Irish Sea.

Sam is bringing the impellor to the foundry that cast it initially.

I hope to get and update today whether it is repairable or not

Liam

[scouter]

Just talked to Sam today Friday, they have found the template for the impeller and will be casting a number of them next wee.
According to Sam it was made over 20 years ago and in the past few months he has had a few enquiries regarding the same impeller.
So if any one wants a spare impeller could they contact Sam and put your name in the pot.

I do not know the price yet.

Will keep you all posted

Liam

[windydave13]

Liam,

Does that mean they couldn't repair your original??
It'll be interesting to see what the damage for a new one is.:?:

Regards

Dave

[anthony goodson]

Liam ,if they are going to cast one for you it may be worth enquiring about the cost of aluminium bronze ,a far superior alloy to aluminium for jet impellers ,and not that much more difficult to cast or work.

[scouter]

Lads

Sorry for the delaY IN POSTING A REPLY, I am still awaiting a price from Sam on the new casted impellor, once I get the price I will let you all know.
Liam

[scouter]

Still awaiting a date for the new impellor - ah well winter is coming soon

[stans4]

hi i also am awaiting a new impeller from westend marine
but did get a new liner and rubber shaft lock(colllet) from him
the collet was £65
liner was £100 ish i think
but would also like to know weather a impeller from a pp65 will fit my westend jet drive ??????
by the way the price he gave me was £180 for the impeller

[scouter]

Just back on to West End Marine this morning and they hope that the Foundry will be cating the impellor next week.
I will keep you all updated
Liam

[anthony goodson]

3 Months to cast an impeller ,no wonder this country's in the sh t .Used to be a can do country, now it's might do ,one day,

[IMP-ish]

It's the same over here - at the same time people are always complaining about unemployment and work being outsourced, it takes a lot of effort to talk someone into doing anything which involves manual labor or setup now adays!

[stans4]

yes i just brought a old 65 just to use the impeller until mine is done :( money money money:(

[stans4]

liam have you got any news from westend marine about the impellers yet ?
stan

[scouter]

I am thinking of writing a letter to Santa Claus for a new impeller for Christmas.

[scouter]

Just talking to West end marine and they have informed me that the impellor was cast last week, they should be contacting me towards the end of this week.

[scouter]

Dear Santa Claus

l'd like an impellor for my Simms Jet Boat this Christmas

I have been a very good boy since I send my old one to a man to fix up for me a few months ago.

;)I still have no impellor for my boat, and the summer is now gone, and the petrol in the tank has gone off.

I tried a pair of Oars to propel my boat but I was getting cramps in my arms.

I will leave the window open for you on Christmas Eve.

Scouter

[scouter]

Still waiting for Santa to reply to my letter for a new impellor

[windydave13]

You must have done something seriously bad in a previous life :P

[scouter]

Must have had, I wonder if Santa would bring me a paddle so I can row the Boat.

[windydave13]

I wouldn't be pinning your hopes on a cast aluminium one!!

[scouter]

Maybe a chocolate one that I can use in the Winter months, as it might melt in the Summer:rolleyes:

[scouter]

YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
My Good Friends in West end Marine have sourced an new impellor for me - Who said that Santa doesn't exist

[windydave13]

Now you've got to hope An Post don't loose it :D

Only 6 months till the water is warm enough to use the boat again!!

[scouter]

Santa Claus arrived yesterday, now I will have fun over the Christmas trying to put it all back together again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paulme33]

i have one of these impellers used, clean for £180

[paulme33]

my email is paulsmith at hot mail dot com

[scouter]

Just got the simms back on the water after 12 months. I am having trouble with getting the boat to plane.

I am getting the feeling that I may not have the spacers in the correct order. Let me explain - There was six washers - nyloflex - that fitted over the shaft and were being used as spacers between the impeller on the back end and on the side nearest the engine.

Does anyone know what sequence they should be in 3 and 3 or 4 and 2 etc.

Scouter

[baeckmo]

They are used to adjust the tip clearance. The housing in which the impeller is working is conical, so you shim the impeller to an axial position, where the radial clearance is ~0.5 mm.

[windydave13]

That's my understanding as well. It sounds like you've got too many spacers in there to start with. I'm sure in one of the other PP65 posts someone has posted the exact tollerance needed