View Full Version : Voith-Schneider Propeller
Very interesting - I just ran across this site and saw a means of propulsion that I've never seen before - the Voith-Schneider Propeller: http://www.voith-schiffstechnik.com/
On this page there's a video which shows how it works:
http://www.voith-schiffstechnik.com/products/set_products1.htm
Does anyone else make anything like this? I wonder how many ships are propelled by these?
tom28571
02-14-2002, 05:02 PM
It's often called a cycloidal drive and is used on some ferries here in NC. The vertical blades are capable of changing the angle of incidence so that lift can be directed in any direction without changing power input. It gives complete freedom of motion when docking and maneuvering. The actual mechanism is much more complicated and a bit similar to the control of helicopter blades.
Guest
11-06-2003, 06:21 AM
actually, lots of tugs have this kind of propulsion, since it allows thrust in any direction.
more and more though are driven by pods
SailDesign
11-06-2003, 07:33 AM
"Does anyone else make anything like this?"
Yes, there is a company now making very small ones for yachts.
I only wish i could remember where I had seen it, and what they are called....
Should the pathway get reconnected, I'll let you know.
Anyone?
yipster
11-06-2003, 01:06 PM
:idea: http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1884&highlight=heli
SailDesign
11-06-2003, 05:34 PM
Thanks, yipster - that's the beast ;-)
ClarkT
11-10-2003, 08:49 AM
I worked a few years ago on a minehunter that used these propellers. Apparantly there are mines out there that are accoustically triggered. They look for the right propeller rhythm, and then detonate.
Obviously the 'blade rate' of the cycloidial propeller is something different entirely, and the mines had no idea what to look for.
jimbo611
07-27-2004, 05:31 PM
Very interesting - I just ran across this site and saw a means of propulsion that I've never seen before - the Voith-Schneider Propeller: http://www.voith-schiffstechnik.com/
On this page there's a video which shows how it works:
http://www.voith-schiffstechnik.com/products/set_products1.htm
Does anyone else make anything like this? I wonder how many ships are propelled by these?
Hello
I WORK AS AN OUTSIDE MACHINEST IN INGLESIDE TX. THE NAVY HAS SOME SHIPS DOWN HERE THAT ARE PROPELLED BY THIS SYSTEM. i HAVE WORKED ON ABOUT 20 units. Very simple system.
It is surprising where these drives pop up. The passenger ferry that crosses between Halifax and Dartmouth Nova Scotia has this drive. This equipment was used in German wooden hull minesweepers before and during WWII because it didn't have a large steel shaft to trigger magnetic mines. Accoustically these drives are very noisy and they are not used on minesweepers as the current mines are very smart.
Gerry Jette
Frans X L
08-01-2004, 11:40 AM
The main down side of this system is that it protrudes below the hull and a keels or skegs have to be built arround it to protect it.
In south africa they are mainly on harbour tugs, which are slow displacement mode boats. ie not highspeed or planing.
For a small boat , there is just too much complexity. A water jet might be better, but even that is expensive and heavy.
Franz,
At the height of the cold war a Russian warship stopped in England. When it docked, it just went sideways. The Brits, intrigued, went to look. It cost them very dearly... Apparently the Russians had a retractable copy of a V-S drive.
There is also a "get home" version that converts the rudders on a ship tp a V-S. I don't believe that has been tried yet.
Gerry
Franz,
I had a 120 HP Mercruiser years ago (Glastron 17 ft.) that I tried a plastic prop on. It flexed and gave a slightly better hole shot for skiing. It was also nearly half price to aluminium. The down side was its fragility. I hit a rope at idle and sheared off a blade. they are not repairable. The carbon composites are more promising. The dutch have them on minesweepers and the Germans have had one for 4 years on a sub. They are very quiet and smooth. They cost 10% more than bronze but are 35% lighter. Some have replaceable blades. Just when you think that there is nothing new for propulsion, sombody dreams up an idea.
jimbo611
08-05-2004, 10:21 PM
It is surprising where these drives pop up. The passenger ferry that crosses between Halifax and Dartmouth Nova Scotia has this drive. This equipment was used in German wooden hull minesweepers before and during WWII because it didn't have a large steel shaft to trigger magnetic mines. Accoustically these drives are very noisy and they are not used on minesweepers as the current mines are very smart.
Gerry Jette
the first production vsp was put to work in 1928, the navy has them installed in there MHC clas ships.[mine hunter counter measure]
Jimbo,
We have 5 VSP driven tugs in the Canadian Navy and as Life Cycle Materiel Manager for shafting, props and transmissions I gotta tell you that the drives are near bulletproof. I knew Mr. Eli Shaprut (former VSP American rep) very well and he admitted that there wasn't much repair work performed on any of their units. In fact their MTBF record is do good thst the company does not have a repair parts inventory. They choose instead to make parts as required. They do however have routine maintenance parts like blade seals available.
jimbo611
08-07-2004, 12:49 PM
Jimbo,
We have 5 VSP driven tugs in the Canadian Navy and as Life Cycle Materiel Manager for shafting, props and transmissions I gotta tell you that the drives are near bulletproof. I knew Mr. Eli Shaprut (former VSP American rep) very well and he admitted that there wasn't much repair work performed on any of their units. In fact their MTBF record is do good thst the company does not have a repair parts inventory. They choose instead to make parts as required. They do however have routine maintenance parts like blade seals available.
They are tuff. One has broken a blade, one broke an arm. The rest of the vsp's we work on are on a routine rotation for mait. This rotation drives Voith schneider crazy becaus this unit does not normally brake down. The water in the oil gets a little high at times, but mostly it's just a miliatery stat.
Call it, job security Every thing in these ships is on a mait. program, keeps us busy. Yes, blade seals and blades, change them out. cool stuff.
A few years back we were tearing them down every 4 years. Because I was spending all my time on warships I wasn't looking after them well enough. After contacting VS we were told to top off the header tank, haul them out and watch for blade seal leaks. Change the seals every 10 years. Flex the the bottom back and forth to check bearing play. Twist the blades back and forth to check play in the arms. Finally use oil analysis to watch for salt water. In 25 years we have never replaced a blade. However the other end of the arm is attached to casting that looks like an open hand. This we broke and the hydraulics managed to really #^&%$ the guts - about $125KUS worth. Still cheap. I once ran across a web page were a guy had built a 2 - 3 inch diameter VS drive and put it in a model. Impressive.
jimbo611
08-13-2004, 05:18 PM
A few years back we were tearing them down every 4 years. Because I was spending all my time on warships I wasn't looking after them well enough. After contacting VS we were told to top off the header tank, haul them out and watch for blade seal leaks. Change the seals every 10 years. Flex the the bottom back and forth to check bearing play. Twist the blades back and forth to check play in the arms. Finally use oil analysis to watch for salt water. In 25 years we have never replaced a blade. However the other end of the arm is attached to casting that looks like an open hand. This we broke and the hydraulics managed to really #^&%$ the guts - about $125KUS worth. Still cheap. I once ran across a web page were a guy had built a 2 - 3 inch diameter VS drive and put it in a model. Impressive.
The size model we work on is a 21. Mike from vsp in Germany says they make a small unit that you can carry around, it's a size 8. Changing the blade seal is about it, axel cleareance and we put a strap around the set of blades and put 200 lbs of pressure to check for seal leaks. The one that broke an arm had caught something in the blade while under way, made a mess of the hyd. too. We managed to change out these systems with the blades still on the unit but the cost to transport was high so now we pull the blades again. Ounce the oil is out we drop 10 blades in one day and put 10 blades back the next. It's the big ass torque wrench thats the most fun. ha ha
paul210480
09-09-2004, 07:31 AM
hello,
i am very new to this forum, and wondering if anyone would be able to help me. I am starting my final year of BEng yacht and powercraft design degree, and trying to research for my dissertaion.
I have recently been shown of the Voith-Schneider Propeller, and i`m very interested in the possible use for small craft (20 - 30ft). The possiblities for a highly manouverably harbour tug. I`m looking for any reseach or technical information on the lateral resistance characteristics of hull forms i.e ideal lines for minimal resistance.
I understand the technical information is normally highly guarded. But if anyone could help I would be very apprieciated. I have already looked through the past 20 years of RINA Transactions, and 10 years of SNAME Transations, but there is nothing on Lateral hull resistance.
Thank you.
Paul.
jimbo611
09-13-2004, 10:36 PM
hello,
i am very new to this forum, and wondering if anyone would be able to help me. I am starting my final year of BEng yacht and powercraft design degree, and trying to research for my dissertaion.
I have recently been shown of the Voith-Schneider Propeller, and i`m very interested in the possible use for small craft (20 - 30ft). The possiblities for a highly manouverably harbour tug. I`m looking for any reseach or technical information on the lateral resistance characteristics of hull forms i.e ideal lines for minimal resistance.
I understand the technical information is normally highly guarded. But if anyone could help I would be very apprieciated. I have already looked through the past 20 years of RINA Transactions, and 10 years of SNAME Transations, but there is nothing on Lateral hull resistance.
Thank you.
Paul.
I see them up front and in the rear, no thec on it, here is a pict.
Paul,
1. What you are looking for probably doesn't exist because a vessel with low lateral resistance would be very unstable and undesirable. Like a personal waterjet craft, it would be very hard to maintain a steady course as it would tend to spin out. I have a 10 ft flat bottom rowboat with a 20 HP motor. It is fast - 35 MPH but it slides in corners so much that I have to stay well away from other boats.
2. V-S drives have specific uses. The Germans invented them and used them on minesweepers during WWII as the entire drive could be made out of non-magnetic materials and put in a wooden hull. The drives are heavy, expensive and intended for slower moving vessels such as harbour tugs, minesweepers and passenger ferries. They are also suprisingly trouble free. The city of Halifax has a passenger ferry made like a flying saucer with a V-S fore and a V-S aft. Its trip is short but it has to be agile as it crosses the traffic path in the harbour. In that same harbour the Canadian Navy has some tugs with side by side V-S drives. While the tugs can go sideways, they generally go ahead or astern because it is much faster and they can pull harder.
There are plans for model V-S drives on the net and a yacht has been proposed with a rudder built as a V-S drive to provide get-home capability.
3. If you really want something fast with no lateral resistance, it has already been done. Buy a hovercraft. Narrow displacement hulls just don't like to go sideways so calculating lateral resistance is not high on the Nav Arc's list and I doubt that many customers would care to pay to find out how fast their boat van go sideways.
Jets
I get it, Props can be made with plastic, a metal or w/e...
Thanks for the fact!
coolblizz
06-22-2005, 10:35 PM
Hi all.....
I am working on the hydrodynamics of the tugboat using the Voith Schneider propeller. Can anyone please help enlighten me on the question below?
"For a Voith Schneider control, the X-pitch changes the ship's Fwd and Aft speeds, while the Y-pitch changes the amount of Port and Starboard turnings. Could anyone please tell me how are the X-pitch and Y-pitch calculated?"
Coolblizz
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