Comercial Fishing boat design

[Doit123]

Gentleman's
I am looking for good basic design of Fishing/Trolling/Lobster catching boat for North East region of US.
My neighbor catching lobsters for leaving and he talk to me about building one.
Particulars: Need to be as beamy on the aft deck as possible, open transom and flat aft deck, LOA from 30' to 50', build from steel or aluminum,inboard motor, Have to be very stable in stop position and at the same time give good speed and stability.
I look over some designs but most of them are for recreational cruisers and I am looking for proved work boat design. I can do detail design, lofting and NC cutting but in need of help and opinion of the guys who build and operate simmilar boat. I understand that it have to be some trades off in particulars but would like to find the design to start.
Any help will be appreciated
Sincerely
Kyle

[Tad]

Doit,

You'll find very little or nothing in the way of steel or aluminum commercial lobster boat designs for a couple of reasons.......

Steel or aluminum construction in North America usually implies hard chine vee or multi-chine hull form.....lobstermen won't have anything to do with hard chine boats (they use round bottom boats almost exclusively) because they haul pots aboard over the side and the pot will get caught under the chine every time......

Probably you will have to adapt a round bottom wood or fiberglass boat to round metal construction.....and there will be weight problems with this........

[mark775]

That's why they do that? I learn something new every day but this implies that they also let the pots hit and drag up the side of their boat - I couldn't imagine. Might they not just use a puller on an arm over the side? Also, do they longline the pots or are they individual? If long lining, adept driving can easily maintain an angle away from the pot line. Because of length limitation, boats here are getting wider. Not unusual to see 32' x 17' aluminum boats for Bristol Bay, A seiner might be 58' by 25'. I wonder how one of those designs would work (other than the hard chine). Fuuny though, most of the hard chine boats for fishing here are long ago overweighted and underpowered to plane and might as well be displacement. Say, if it's hard chine but deep vee, would the pot slide over it without catching too bad?

[anthony goodson]

Catamarans have become very popular, for small scale potting, around here.

[Tad]

this implies that they also let the pots hit and drag up the side of their boat - Might they not just use a puller on an arm over the side?

Also, do they longline the pots or are they individual? If long lining, adept driving can easily maintain an angle away from the pot line.

if it's hard chine but deep vee, would the pot slide over it without catching too bad?

They absolutely do use a davit....see the pic below.....the davit is swung outboard when hauling, also note the hull sheathing where pots get dragged up the topsides, that sheathing extends below the turn of the bilge....

52716

adept driving? Don't believe it....this is done in a big sea and lots of wind at times, close inshore around rocks and tangled with other pot warp......boats are often sideways, sometimes pots are in strings, sometimes individual....

[Tad]

Here's the same thing (hull sheathing at the hauling station) on a West Coast halibut longliner.....the sheathing above the guard is stainless steel, below the guard is strips of gumwood.......

52717

[mark775]

Yeah, Nowadays they usually use UHMW for a side board except for a classic woodie like the Leeward. I built two out of heavy FRP laminates with black pigment in the resin. They wear very well but I, personally, would go for wood. That downeaster looks well suited - I like how the pulling station is well protected from weather. I am more accustomed to pulling pots offshore. If you are tied down to not maneuver, definately harder to keep a proper angle on the pot line. I have a feeling that these boats are also singlehanded, as well, to add another dimension. Do they need to go fast, or could one of the wider designs like out here, or a cat like the one fellow suggested, be used? I imagine the other fishers wouldn't drink coffee with the guy showing up in a plastc cat... If you don't need to pack too much, a displacement cat seems a good way to go. Tangled with other pot warp? I have one word to address that - Spyderco.

[viking north]

You are now getting it direct from the horses mouth so to say having been engaged in the north east fishery on and off since i was a kid in the very types of fishing you listed.In my case it was the south west coast of Newfoundland. First look around the area you are going to fish in, see what the other fishermen are using. Each area usually has a distinct modification of a boat developed both in New England and Nova Scotia called the NOVI. The modifications are for good reason thru trial and error relating to the prevalent local sea state.Believe me even a distance of 100 miles will show some slight modification to better cope with the conditions. Example if the area is shallow water subject to fast tides creating alot of steep seas i'll bet you find the local boats have their bows flared into a design we call the Nortumberland Straight Bow.You don't need anyone to design a boat there are many used but in excellent condition for sale in Nova Scotia alone and if you want a new one i can recommend La Blanc Boats here just south of Lunenburg as well i am sure many more builders on Maine. I do recommend you go with fiberglass for low maintenance and strength. Don't recommend glass over wood as many of these are older boats that were worn out and leaking so were patched over with glass to get a few more years lifespan. Check KIJIJI, Halifax, under heading boats, i seem to recall a few glass lobster boats as they are called locally for sale. TAD's photo shows a typical Novi, TAD, i'm impresses you are familiar with these, then why should i be surprised.Hope this helps, Geo.

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner.

[Doit123]

Yes we do have a couple boats over hear that look almost square. I ask about that and been told that this boats came from Canada. Been told that they have regulation for fishing fleet according to boat length and obviously people try to squeeze maximum free deck on them. Do not know true or not.
Plan to build deep V with hard chine and deal with pot hauling arrangement similar to last picture from Ted.
Catamaran design is very interesting idea. Does anybody have any info on that?
Pots are individual and slow speed driving ,maneuverability and stability at stop condition is of great concern due to harsh environment.
Appreciate your responses.

[anthony goodson]

Blyth and Cheetah cats are amongst those used for potting and set nets in the part of the UK that I live.

[mark775]

The NOVI does okay at displacement speeds and planing? Shouldn't be able to commercially use a foreign build in US waters by the Jones Act. I just looked for NOVI hulls and I cannot figure out what the defining feature is...

[Tad]

Grew up fishing here on the west coast, then spent 15 years in Maine, designed a few wooden lobsterboats and lobsteryachts.....the modern Maine boats are quite wide (42's are now 15' wide) and almost flat bottomed aft, with 500-1000Hp speeds over 20 knots are common, more speed equals more traps per day......as long as there are a few lobsta's in em.....

[viking north]

Mark, I seem to recall, Wooden Boat magazine did a big historical article on the Novi some years ago.A Novi normally will not get upon a plane although they're quite capable of getting close to it. I'm not familiar with the Jones Act but regardless of where it is built if it passes U.S. regulations i should think it would be approved, I think thats the idea behind the free trade act, then again the all too powerful lobby groups in the U.S. even over ride the government to the great loss of the voting public so who really knows. Geo.

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the love and care of her owner

[viking north]

There you go TAD, we have something in common, fishin da lobsta, you guys did it with several traps on one line, we ran one line per trap. Yes the Maine Lobster boat/Novi is basically the same hull and have evolved into a wide low after working deck, flat bottomed aft with that heavy duty keel, housing the shaft log and usually a prop cage. Then there's that big high bow forward to take on those steep seas along the coast. They are indeed bred for their work. Geo.

[mark775]

We have some Brunos and Sisus here - Are those it?
The Jones Act was ostensibly to make sure there was always an active American shipbuilding industry and shippers didn't just go wherever it was cheapest to build. http://www.akerphiladelphia.com/section.cfm?path=1,227

[Tad]

The Jones Act was ostensibly to make sure there was always an active American shipbuilding industry and shippers didn't just go wherever it was cheapest to build. http://www.akerphiladelphia.com/section.cfm?path=1,227

It is also protectionist legislation that locks Canada (BC) out of the Alaska freight business......

[mark775]

Yeah, Vancouver would be a natural for Alaska Freight but then it would be twice as big...

[Tad]

Actually the rail-head at Prince Rupert is 600 miles closer than Seattle......

have we drifted this thread far enough yet? :D

[viking north]

Sounds like a wise decision to me, now if they would have included the materials as well as the labour maybe there still would be a triving steel industry. Mark. not familiar with Brunos and Sisus let me have a search and see if i reconize them. where are you located, Is Homer a place?Geo.

[viking north]

Ok Mark , exactly the style, the Bruno has a Northumberland bow developed by the Acadian fishermen in New Brunswick to cope with steep breaking seas, they actually take the flared bow to an extreme. The older style sisus is identical to what we call a Novi. It would be logical that the Maine boys and the south shore Nova Scotian boys would develop this style as most of them are actually cousins and in the past visited each other often for family outings. I agree with TAD it is a form of protectionism, you would think by now we colonials would have become more united. Oh well i guess we can't complain at least we make money in supplying the energy to build them.(Canada now #1 supplier of oil to the U.S.)(smiley face) Geo.

[mark775]

More similar than different, to be sure. Okay, I have been on both and they are good at what they do (Though the Bruno had a problem - something to do with Airex core and inner and outer hulls working independently. Nothing to do with hull shape). That Bruno, I'm gonna say it was about 42', held an amazing amount of herring. I would think something like that would be a good trap boat. Does somebody make something like that with a 16' beam for this gentleman?

[Mr Efficiency]

The original poster should google up some West Australian crayfish boats, mostly aluminium hard chine designs there, and have to operate in rough water a lot of the time.

[BATAAN]

Isn't the old reliable Maine "Jonesport Boat" what is needed here? This is a pic of one I found dying up a creek in SE Alaska a couple years ago. These were developed to haul lobster pots down east and are very well adapted. This is an older example, the new boats are f/g, wider and have more power.

[mark775]

Thats' in SE? Amazing, looks just like here. Oh yeah, Geo - Homer, Alaska, South Central Alaska.

[FAST FRED]

, with 500-1000Hp speeds over 20 knots are common, more speed equals more traps per day..

500 hp is at least 25 GPH, 1000 will be at least 50GPH maybe 60!.

With diesel going up and lobsters going no where , one would need a LOT of lobsters to get even.

FF

[viking north]

Battan, same hull style, excellent sea boats, and likewise make a good yacht. I always compare hulls, sailboats, powerboats, to their fishing boat ancestors, speed has never been important to me, always the seaworthyness,performance factor with seaworthyness playing the bigger role.
Mark, Homer yes, Homer ,Alaska, it was the non capital H that was throwing me off,In my Newfoundland anchient Irish/English dialect, we refer to homers a people who never come out of their house or leave their village, "real homers da are by.(da(they)(by)(boy)
My Uncle,Harold Pike, was a buldozer operator on the origional construction of the Alaska highway. Was easy for him being at that time from the Country of Newfoundland to get a job as there was sort of a free trade/easy work visa's between Newfoundland and the U.S., after all Newfoundland was the origional New England Colony.
Fast Fred, most popular origional motors were 232 6 cyl, chevys and many of the smaller Novi's and converted to yachts still use them. Geo.

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner.

[wardd]

Isn't the old reliable Maine "Jonesport Boat" what is needed here? This is a pic of one I found dying up a creek in SE Alaska a couple years ago. These were developed to haul lobster pots down east and are very well adapted. This is an older example, the new boats are f/g, wider and have more power.


unlike fg, wooden boats decay with class

[Doit123]

Novi type boats are the type that we used over hear but I am looking for simmilar design in aluminum or steel.