CatBuilder
12-18-2010, 12:40 PM
I've been looking around for bead and cove router bits and have come up with nothing.
I have 1" thick foam to bead and cove.
Any suggested vendors?
I have 1" thick foam to bead and cove.
Any suggested vendors?
View Full Version : Bead and Cove Router Bits - Where to buy in USA?
alan white
12-18-2010, 02:01 PM
I looked for bits that would join 1" thick materials and I found that there's not much out there. Most every company appears to be completely ignorant of the fact that measurements need to be supplied. They say nothing of radius (which is the vital statistic) because the company is made up of people who know nothing of their product except its catalog number. Welcome to 2010.
I will suggest this: the cove part can be made by running the foam through a table saw on edge, at an angle (as viewed from above--- using a fence somewhat at an angle to the regular rip fence). Any size cove can be done this way.
The bead can be done using a standard round-off bit with a 1/2" radius---- the first edge with the router flat on the panel. The second half with the router on the edge of the panel (otherwise the bearing will ride too deep). Do you understand?
I will suggest this: the cove part can be made by running the foam through a table saw on edge, at an angle (as viewed from above--- using a fence somewhat at an angle to the regular rip fence). Any size cove can be done this way.
The bead can be done using a standard round-off bit with a 1/2" radius---- the first edge with the router flat on the panel. The second half with the router on the edge of the panel (otherwise the bearing will ride too deep). Do you understand?
wardd
12-18-2010, 02:09 PM
http://woodgears.ca/cove/calculate.html
http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html
http://woodgears.ca/cove/asymmetric.html
http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html
http://woodgears.ca/cove/asymmetric.html
War Whoop
12-18-2010, 02:28 PM
Norton Carbide Tools
5775 Orange Drive
Davie, FL 33314-3819
(954) 587-8665
That is where I get my custom carbide tooling and these as well.
http://i52.tinypic.com/8xq6ns.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2hgbfok.jpg
5775 Orange Drive
Davie, FL 33314-3819
(954) 587-8665
That is where I get my custom carbide tooling and these as well.
http://i52.tinypic.com/8xq6ns.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2hgbfok.jpg
CatBuilder
12-18-2010, 03:02 PM
Thanks, Alan and Wardd. I do understand the method, but my coves have to be exact and I easily have 4500ft+ of coving (and beading) to do. Damn close to a mile! :)
I need to do what War Whoop is showing in the picture. Thanks for the referral to Norton Carbide, Mr. Whoop. I'll give them a try.
I need to do what War Whoop is showing in the picture. Thanks for the referral to Norton Carbide, Mr. Whoop. I'll give them a try.
alan white
12-18-2010, 03:20 PM
Great info, Wardd. I know the trick of tilting the saw blade, which I've use to "generate" complex moldings (to match century-old moldings in old houses). I still think the table saw process is as good or better than the router bit method, maybe because I own the table saw and I don't have a mini-shaper. I'm glad someone supplied the vendor for you, any case.
War Whoop
12-18-2010, 04:14 PM
Two large routers on a 1" MDF topped Bench, the One shown was the bead, the core box bit was on the other side,it captured the planks and held a exact cove.
gonzo
12-18-2010, 06:01 PM
You don't need a 1" bit for 1" foam. A 3/4" will leave only 1/8" square edges which will not be a problem.
War Whoop
12-18-2010, 08:21 PM
Go full size
http://i52.tinypic.com/wah9fs.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/wah9fs.jpg
SamSam
12-19-2010, 11:05 AM
Coves made with a table saw blade are not of a set radius, they are elliptical in shape and so can't be matched with any bead router bit.
TeddyDiver
12-19-2010, 11:24 AM
Coves made with a table saw blade are not of a set radius, they are elliptical in shape and so can't be matched with any bead router bit.
Correct, but the difference is insignificant as long as the depth of the cove is reasonable..
Correct, but the difference is insignificant as long as the depth of the cove is reasonable..
gonzo
12-19-2010, 11:36 AM
Coves made with a table saw are not eliptical but circular. They are not a half circle however, which most half round bits are. There will be more glue needed to fill the gap.
SamSam
12-19-2010, 11:42 AM
Here's half the problem solved, if you can get a cove to come close to the radius.
Having a wide radius will reduce fragile feather edges on the coves in the foam.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=161200
Having a wide radius will reduce fragile feather edges on the coves in the foam.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=161200
War Whoop
12-19-2010, 12:14 PM
The beauty of the system is it's ability to wrap a curved surface with smaller planks and a full size joint is required for this so the planks bead is not raised in the cove through slight rotation off a shoulder creating a unnecessary Putty filled expensive and heavy joint when the core is desired.
The feather edges are fine long as care is used.
The feather edges are fine long as care is used.
PAR
12-19-2010, 12:20 PM
Considering the linear amount of cove and bead work you need, Catbuilder, a custom bit set is a reasonable option. Personally, I make them up my self, but many don't work metal, know how to weld, have the tools, etc., so a local machine shop can fix you up for not much money.
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 12:45 PM
The beauty of the system is it's ability to wrap a curved surface with smaller planks and a full size joint is required for this so the planks bead is not raised in the cove through slight rotation off a shoulder creating a unnecessary Putty filled expensive and heavy joint when the core is desired.
The feather edges are fine long as care is used.
These are my thoughts as well. If you don't have a cove going all the way to the edge and you bend the joint, you introduce a defect in the surface on both sides, which just needs more fairing.
The object here is to develop the most fair foam shapes I can so that I don't have to do a bunch of fairing later on.
The feather edges are fine long as care is used.
These are my thoughts as well. If you don't have a cove going all the way to the edge and you bend the joint, you introduce a defect in the surface on both sides, which just needs more fairing.
The object here is to develop the most fair foam shapes I can so that I don't have to do a bunch of fairing later on.
gonzo
12-19-2010, 02:23 PM
Each bead and cove joint is a sharp edge that needs to be sanded down or filled. The flat surfaces are not a fair curve. The convex face will be taken down so it doesn't matter. The concave face may need a bit more filling , but the center of the foam will have to be taken down. I can't see much of a problem with having a bit of an edge left on the foam. It may be better because it is stronger and not break.
Charly
12-19-2010, 02:32 PM
From one unfamiliar with foam :
why not just cut a tounge and groove joint on the table saw?
why not just cut a tounge and groove joint on the table saw?
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 02:33 PM
Oh, I see what you're getting at, Gonzo. That makes sense.
I'm trying to decide between bead and cove planking (longitudinal) and vertical foam placement.
Vertical involves me having to build in tons of "stringers" along the stations of my mold to create a virtual "basket" to lay the foam in. Lots of work. The bead and cove longitudinal strips involve no more mold modifications, but plenty of routing and later sanding to take down highs spots.
I'm not sure which is best for getting the job done easily and quickliy. Any thoughts, anyone?
I'm trying to decide between bead and cove planking (longitudinal) and vertical foam placement.
Vertical involves me having to build in tons of "stringers" along the stations of my mold to create a virtual "basket" to lay the foam in. Lots of work. The bead and cove longitudinal strips involve no more mold modifications, but plenty of routing and later sanding to take down highs spots.
I'm not sure which is best for getting the job done easily and quickliy. Any thoughts, anyone?
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 02:34 PM
From one unfamiliar with foam :
why not just cut a tounge and groove joint on the table saw?
It's because you are bending the foam, Charly. You are putting it on a curved surface that's the shape of the hull. It has to curve around the bilge and the hull deck joint areas. There, the tongue and groove would pop out.
why not just cut a tounge and groove joint on the table saw?
It's because you are bending the foam, Charly. You are putting it on a curved surface that's the shape of the hull. It has to curve around the bilge and the hull deck joint areas. There, the tongue and groove would pop out.
War Whoop
12-19-2010, 02:40 PM
The joint can be rotated quite a bit and also never had a single problem with the edges,the trick is to push the excess adhesive out by seating the plank in the cove for gluing up the next run.
I would setup in the afternoon before and glue a bunch of end joined planks together for the starting runs the next morning.
The Idea of this system is to eliminate excess fixture framing and the battens.
I would setup in the afternoon before and glue a bunch of end joined planks together for the starting runs the next morning.
The Idea of this system is to eliminate excess fixture framing and the battens.
hoytedow
12-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Coves made with a table saw are not eliptical but circular. They are not a half circle however, which most half round bits are. There will be more glue needed to fill the gap.I must disagree. The part of the ellipse cut by the circular saw blade does approach circularity closely enough that the "out of roundness" is insignificant.
gonzo
12-19-2010, 04:41 PM
I would like to see a circular saw that is eliptic or out of round and still can be used.
wardd
12-19-2010, 04:44 PM
if it cuts anything but circular the blade is not square with the table
SamSam
12-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Coves made with a table saw blade are elliptical. Maybe not enough to matter.
This is a very slight ellipse shape even though it looks round...
http://woodgears.ca/cove/smooth_cove.jpg
This is obviously elliptical, made with the same circular sawblade but different settings...
http://woodgears.ca/cove/narrow_cove.jpg
In both photos it can be seen that the sides of the cove have a larger radius and are flatter than the bottom.
You only have to put stringers on the mold (every 6"?) once to make 4 sides versus all the cove and beading, glueing and fairing (inside and out) that has to be repeated 4 times.
This is a very slight ellipse shape even though it looks round...
http://woodgears.ca/cove/smooth_cove.jpg
This is obviously elliptical, made with the same circular sawblade but different settings...
http://woodgears.ca/cove/narrow_cove.jpg
In both photos it can be seen that the sides of the cove have a larger radius and are flatter than the bottom.
You only have to put stringers on the mold (every 6"?) once to make 4 sides versus all the cove and beading, glueing and fairing (inside and out) that has to be repeated 4 times.
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 05:48 PM
Definitely, the cove or flute cut into an object coming at a saw blade diagonally will be an elliptical shape and not a circular shape:
http://web.me.com/paulscott.info/DC/ellipse/aellipse-cylinder-section.gif
Elliptical Cove from pushing the foam at a table saw blade (small cylinder) at an angle.
http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/semicircle.gif
True semicircle cove shape.
A saw table saw blade at any angle other than 0deg, 90deg, 180deg or 270deg will cause a section of a cylinder to be cut into the material rather than a true semicircle.
An elliptical cove will cause problems as you rotate the bead and cove joint, since it will push the bead out of the elliptical cove (assuming the bead and the cove are both the same shape).
http://web.me.com/paulscott.info/DC/ellipse/aellipse-cylinder-section.gif
Elliptical Cove from pushing the foam at a table saw blade (small cylinder) at an angle.
http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/semicircle.gif
True semicircle cove shape.
A saw table saw blade at any angle other than 0deg, 90deg, 180deg or 270deg will cause a section of a cylinder to be cut into the material rather than a true semicircle.
An elliptical cove will cause problems as you rotate the bead and cove joint, since it will push the bead out of the elliptical cove (assuming the bead and the cove are both the same shape).
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 05:55 PM
You only have to put stringers on the mold (every 6"?) once to make 4 sides versus all the cove and beading, glueing and fairing (inside and out) that has to be repeated 4 times.
Yeah, that's what I was just thinking!
Any other opinions out there that say I should go longitudinal vs athwartships on the foam?
Yeah, that's what I was just thinking!
Any other opinions out there that say I should go longitudinal vs athwartships on the foam?
hoytedow
12-19-2010, 06:11 PM
I would like to see a circular saw that is eliptic or out of round and still can be used.The blade is circular of course, but the cut-piece approaches from an angle using a special jig so the projection is elliptical, as shown by SamSam.
SamSam
12-19-2010, 06:23 PM
Concerning cove and beading, isn't it better to have the radius/diameter larger than the thickness to keep the edges from being so fragile? A large radius will still allow the seam to be tight and also to rotate. The only important thing is that both the cove and bead have the same radius/diameter.
SamSam
12-19-2010, 06:31 PM
One other thing is you already cut the mold stations. Will you be able to add the thickness of the stringers without effecting the dimensions of the hull?
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 06:45 PM
One other thing is you already cut the mold stations. Will you be able to add the thickness of the stringers without effecting the dimensions of the hull?
Wow, you're good. I was about to type that question. :D
I have stations right now that are the actual hull lines. I didn't cut stations deducted for the longitudinal supports (I called them stringers, but I think they have another name).
Here is what they look like:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51125d1292099549-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0167.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
See how small a margin I have at the edges of those 8' sheets of wafer board? What do I do with that, given these lines are the true hull shape?
I can't even cut notches out for the longitudinal runners because I don't have enough plywood to do that. I am very much NOT a wood guy, so I don't understand what to do with the wood in this situation where I'm short.
One way I was thinking of doing it was to attach a bunch of short pieces between the stations and have them line up with the existing lines of the stations. Not sure what else I can do...:confused:
Wow, you're good. I was about to type that question. :D
I have stations right now that are the actual hull lines. I didn't cut stations deducted for the longitudinal supports (I called them stringers, but I think they have another name).
Here is what they look like:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51125d1292099549-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0167.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
See how small a margin I have at the edges of those 8' sheets of wafer board? What do I do with that, given these lines are the true hull shape?
I can't even cut notches out for the longitudinal runners because I don't have enough plywood to do that. I am very much NOT a wood guy, so I don't understand what to do with the wood in this situation where I'm short.
One way I was thinking of doing it was to attach a bunch of short pieces between the stations and have them line up with the existing lines of the stations. Not sure what else I can do...:confused:
War Whoop
12-19-2010, 06:51 PM
What stringers?
CatBuilder
12-19-2010, 06:53 PM
What stringers?
These ones. They are used when you do vertical foam (that doesn't need bead and cove). No sanding the hull planks fair and you just heat the core cell to bend it. Pretty easy, if you can get the mold set up, which I'm stuck on...
http://www.f-boat.com/media/construction/vertical_foam_stripping.jpg
These ones. They are used when you do vertical foam (that doesn't need bead and cove). No sanding the hull planks fair and you just heat the core cell to bend it. Pretty easy, if you can get the mold set up, which I'm stuck on...
http://www.f-boat.com/media/construction/vertical_foam_stripping.jpg
War Whoop
12-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Concerning cove and beading, isn't it better to have the radius/diameter larger than the thickness to keep the edges from being so fragile? A large radius will still allow the seam to be tight and also to rotate. The only important thing is that both the cove and bead have the same radius/diameter.
No the system works just fine when cut with the right tools.
No the system works just fine when cut with the right tools.
War Whoop
12-19-2010, 06:57 PM
These ones. They are used when you do vertical foam (that doesn't need bead and cove). No sanding the hull planks fair and you just heat the core cell to bend it. Pretty easy, if you can get the mold set up, which I'm stuck on...
You mean Battens looks like you have plenty of room to let 3/4 x 1 1/2" strips in your frames for using full sheets,but you have to fasten core from the back side and 1" foam needs a good push down. I use #14 screws they get a good bite.
You mean Battens looks like you have plenty of room to let 3/4 x 1 1/2" strips in your frames for using full sheets,but you have to fasten core from the back side and 1" foam needs a good push down. I use #14 screws they get a good bite.
gypsy28
12-20-2010, 12:44 AM
I havent tried either method (bead and cove strip plank/ vertical strips) yet but I have spoken to a builder who has built trimarans in both methods and he definately recomends vertical strips.
Longer mould prep but much quicker (less glue joins) and easier (bigger planks) and less FAIRING (so I'm told)
Mould battens dont need scarfing just simple butt joints with butt straps on the outer side, easy if you cut the notches on the frames before standing them on the strong back, probably not so easy once the frames are standing
Hope this helps, DAVE
Longer mould prep but much quicker (less glue joins) and easier (bigger planks) and less FAIRING (so I'm told)
Mould battens dont need scarfing just simple butt joints with butt straps on the outer side, easy if you cut the notches on the frames before standing them on the strong back, probably not so easy once the frames are standing
Hope this helps, DAVE
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 02:43 AM
I'm very much leaning toward vertical strips, but how can I install 3/4" battens on the mold when the sides of the mold are less than 1" thick?
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 02:43 AM
I'm very much leaning toward vertical strips, but how can I install 3/4" battens on the mold when the sides of the mold are less than 1" thick?
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
hoytedow
12-20-2010, 05:17 AM
I'm very much leaning toward vertical strips, but how can I install 3/4" battens on the mold when the sides of the mold are less than 1" thick?
Add gorilla glue and deadwood at the thin areas to enhance screw holding and eliminate distortion from working with too thin a piece. Think of a board on board fence to demonstrate the geometry.
Add gorilla glue and deadwood at the thin areas to enhance screw holding and eliminate distortion from working with too thin a piece. Think of a board on board fence to demonstrate the geometry.
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 06:30 AM
Wow! That looks pretty good Hoyt. Special thanks for taking the time to draw that out and scan it in. This will work perfectly, I think. I have plenty of scrap around from the large cutouts. Is there an instant glue I should use, or is that how gorilla glue works? I have tightbond glue I used to butt join the 2x6's for the strongback. Maybe a few screws could do the trick to hold the tightbond in place while it sets up, then just leave them in.
SamSam
12-20-2010, 07:32 AM
No the system works just fine when cut with the right tools.
Concerning cove and beading, isn't it better to have the radius/diameter larger than the thickness to keep the edges from being so fragile? A large radius will still allow the seam to be tight and also to rotate. The only important thing is that both the cove and bead have the same radius/diameter.Here's half the problem solved, if you can get a cove to come close to the radius.
Having a wide radius will reduce fragile feather edges on the coves in the foam.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/cate...spx?key=161200 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=161200)This is what I was talking about. Where the curvature is larger than the thickness, where you end up with part of an arc for the cove and bead instead of a semicircle. What I was referring to above with the Grizzly 'fingernail' bits.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L_gmO1xMx3I/SJQSbo-2vuI/AAAAAAAAAyc/NNAWB5goQQc/s400/Rover+4+cylinder+side+valve+head+gasket+sets+008.JPG
Concerning cove and beading, isn't it better to have the radius/diameter larger than the thickness to keep the edges from being so fragile? A large radius will still allow the seam to be tight and also to rotate. The only important thing is that both the cove and bead have the same radius/diameter.Here's half the problem solved, if you can get a cove to come close to the radius.
Having a wide radius will reduce fragile feather edges on the coves in the foam.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/cate...spx?key=161200 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=161200)This is what I was talking about. Where the curvature is larger than the thickness, where you end up with part of an arc for the cove and bead instead of a semicircle. What I was referring to above with the Grizzly 'fingernail' bits.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L_gmO1xMx3I/SJQSbo-2vuI/AAAAAAAAAyc/NNAWB5goQQc/s400/Rover+4+cylinder+side+valve+head+gasket+sets+008.JPG
TeddyDiver
12-20-2010, 07:50 AM
Maybe a few screws could do the trick to hold the tightbond in place while it sets up, then just leave them in.
Or shoot them fast with a nailgun.. some 40mm nails are ok :)
SamSam.. those boards in your pic.. see you what's wrong with them :(
Or shoot them fast with a nailgun.. some 40mm nails are ok :)
SamSam.. those boards in your pic.. see you what's wrong with them :(
SamSam
12-20-2010, 08:03 AM
I just found this, you've probably seen this site.
http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/howto/strip-plank/vertical_strip.html
The battens do take a little longer to setup, but no longer than say the first 10 to 15% of the numerous strips required for the more traditional fore and aft wood stripping. Fewer more widely spaced form frames can also be used. The relatively few battens are then just quickly laid in wherever they want to go, or as needed, and from then on the much fewer/wider vertical strips are considerably quicker and easier to apply.
But better still, one also does not have to buy thicker foam in order to allow for the extensive fairing required with fore and aft strips to take out all the little flats, as is recommended by some promoters of fore and aft stripping methods.
http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/howto/strip-plank/vertical_strip.html
The battens do take a little longer to setup, but no longer than say the first 10 to 15% of the numerous strips required for the more traditional fore and aft wood stripping. Fewer more widely spaced form frames can also be used. The relatively few battens are then just quickly laid in wherever they want to go, or as needed, and from then on the much fewer/wider vertical strips are considerably quicker and easier to apply.
But better still, one also does not have to buy thicker foam in order to allow for the extensive fairing required with fore and aft strips to take out all the little flats, as is recommended by some promoters of fore and aft stripping methods.
SamSam
12-20-2010, 08:05 AM
SamSam.. those boards in your pic.. see you what's wrong with them :(
No, I don't. What is wrong with them?
No, I don't. What is wrong with them?
War Whoop
12-20-2010, 09:04 AM
I can build much quicker with bead and cove plus it is like self fairing, very minimal setup and with the A-600 1" you could go 30" on center with the frames.
SamSam
12-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Wow, you're good. I was about to type that question. :D
I have stations right now that are the actual hull lines. I didn't cut stations deducted for the longitudinal supports (I called them stringers, but I think they have another name).
Here is what they look like:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51125d1292099549-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0167.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
See how small a margin I have at the edges of those 8' sheets of wafer board? What do I do with that, given these lines are the true hull shape?
I can't even cut notches out for the longitudinal runners because I don't have enough plywood to do that. I am very much NOT a wood guy, so I don't understand what to do with the wood in this situation where I'm short.
One way I was thinking of doing it was to attach a bunch of short pieces between the stations and have them line up with the existing lines of the stations. Not sure what else I can do...:confused:Don't take this wrong, but you'd best be careful. You don't have the experience to go fast on this expensive project. My opinion is that a lot of those mold are too thin on one side and some are too thin on both sides. Some that are too thin on one side would have been alright if you had shifted the cutout to leave equal amounts on both sides, the ones that are too thin on both sides should have had been extended first with a piece in the center or one end and then the cutout made leaving enough on both ends. All the molds would then be lined up using reference marks instead of the ends of the mold.
The advantages to doing the vertical sheets vs bead and coved strips are obvious still, but you've lost a lot of the advantage by going ahead and cutting the mold stations.
You don't want to put short sticks between the stations. You'd have to measure and cut them pretty much individually. You'd have to put two fasteners in each end to keep them from twisting, that would be 4 fasteners at each station for each batten. They would warp and twist and sag being only supported on the ends. You would never get them aligned up in a fair plane to begin with.
With long battens, it would take one fastener per station, they would span multiple stations and remain fair while being stronger.
It would be 10 times faster than individual pieces also, except you now have to add in the process of either recutting the whole outline of the mold and then putting strips wherever you want, or holding the strips in place, marking the molds and then cutting notches to set the battens in.
If you cut notches, they really don't have to be squared up things with two straight sides where the batten fits in snugly. The only part that counts is where the batten sits, so instead of multiple cuts with a saber saw and possible chisel work, one wider swooping cut could be made where you rapidly slope in to the bottom, cut the bottom carefully and then rapidly slope out the other side leaving a flatbottom notch with rough, random sides. If you cut too deep the battens can be shimmed with playing cards or that sort of stuff before fastening.
Sister in junk like hoytedow suggests to beef the frames up, along with longitudinals on the outside. Home Depot or Lowes sells this for less than $300 Way faster and easier than screws and doesn't shift stuff around like hammering..
.http://img03.static-nextag.com/image/Porter-Cable-PC3PAK-3/1/000/007/340/713/734071399.jpg
But now again you have war whoops take on it to think about.
Here's something else. If you have to screw into the foam from the outside to hold it in place, is there enough room under your mold to get in there and do it?
I have stations right now that are the actual hull lines. I didn't cut stations deducted for the longitudinal supports (I called them stringers, but I think they have another name).
Here is what they look like:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51125d1292099549-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0167.jpg
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/51126d1292099574-building-starting-several-questions-here-answer-any-you-like-imag0168.jpg
See how small a margin I have at the edges of those 8' sheets of wafer board? What do I do with that, given these lines are the true hull shape?
I can't even cut notches out for the longitudinal runners because I don't have enough plywood to do that. I am very much NOT a wood guy, so I don't understand what to do with the wood in this situation where I'm short.
One way I was thinking of doing it was to attach a bunch of short pieces between the stations and have them line up with the existing lines of the stations. Not sure what else I can do...:confused:Don't take this wrong, but you'd best be careful. You don't have the experience to go fast on this expensive project. My opinion is that a lot of those mold are too thin on one side and some are too thin on both sides. Some that are too thin on one side would have been alright if you had shifted the cutout to leave equal amounts on both sides, the ones that are too thin on both sides should have had been extended first with a piece in the center or one end and then the cutout made leaving enough on both ends. All the molds would then be lined up using reference marks instead of the ends of the mold.
The advantages to doing the vertical sheets vs bead and coved strips are obvious still, but you've lost a lot of the advantage by going ahead and cutting the mold stations.
You don't want to put short sticks between the stations. You'd have to measure and cut them pretty much individually. You'd have to put two fasteners in each end to keep them from twisting, that would be 4 fasteners at each station for each batten. They would warp and twist and sag being only supported on the ends. You would never get them aligned up in a fair plane to begin with.
With long battens, it would take one fastener per station, they would span multiple stations and remain fair while being stronger.
It would be 10 times faster than individual pieces also, except you now have to add in the process of either recutting the whole outline of the mold and then putting strips wherever you want, or holding the strips in place, marking the molds and then cutting notches to set the battens in.
If you cut notches, they really don't have to be squared up things with two straight sides where the batten fits in snugly. The only part that counts is where the batten sits, so instead of multiple cuts with a saber saw and possible chisel work, one wider swooping cut could be made where you rapidly slope in to the bottom, cut the bottom carefully and then rapidly slope out the other side leaving a flatbottom notch with rough, random sides. If you cut too deep the battens can be shimmed with playing cards or that sort of stuff before fastening.
Sister in junk like hoytedow suggests to beef the frames up, along with longitudinals on the outside. Home Depot or Lowes sells this for less than $300 Way faster and easier than screws and doesn't shift stuff around like hammering..
.http://img03.static-nextag.com/image/Porter-Cable-PC3PAK-3/1/000/007/340/713/734071399.jpg
But now again you have war whoops take on it to think about.
Here's something else. If you have to screw into the foam from the outside to hold it in place, is there enough room under your mold to get in there and do it?
wardd
12-20-2010, 09:58 AM
one thing may that may be useful is to measure every station from the same datum and not from one to the next to eliminate accumulating errors
SamSam
12-20-2010, 10:17 AM
one thing may that may be useful is to measure every station from the same datum and not from one to the next to eliminate accumulating errors
I think you are talking about individual sticks between the stations and saying figure out what what the length should technically be according to plans and then cutting them all the same length.
Error could come into play in that that station material may not be a uniform thickness. Error could come into play in that a slightly long stick would add up to accumulated error after 24 (?) stations.
Another drawback to individual sticks is that even if you got them in there perfectly, if those stations swell even the slightest with the humidity, that will be a bunch of accumulated error with nowhere to go but lengthwise. With long battens sitting on the stations, the stations can swell individually and not effect the length (and fairness) of the mold.
I think you are talking about individual sticks between the stations and saying figure out what what the length should technically be according to plans and then cutting them all the same length.
Error could come into play in that that station material may not be a uniform thickness. Error could come into play in that a slightly long stick would add up to accumulated error after 24 (?) stations.
Another drawback to individual sticks is that even if you got them in there perfectly, if those stations swell even the slightest with the humidity, that will be a bunch of accumulated error with nowhere to go but lengthwise. With long battens sitting on the stations, the stations can swell individually and not effect the length (and fairness) of the mold.
War Whoop
12-20-2010, 10:37 AM
The advantage with long battens or the bead and cove is the fairing aspect,like I said the planks pretty much want to be fair like a long batten, following the golden rule of boatbuilding where a fair line overrules a given dimension so if it floats in a frame notch so be it.
Even in the computer cut material one sees where the electronic spline does not match nature like the modulus of a good ole piece of clear fir or a metal batten.
Even in the computer cut material one sees where the electronic spline does not match nature like the modulus of a good ole piece of clear fir or a metal batten.
SamSam
12-20-2010, 11:49 AM
But don't you still have to fair the whole thing to eliminate the flats of the separate foam planks?
War Whoop
12-20-2010, 11:57 AM
But don't you still have to fair the whole thing to eliminate the flats of the separate foam planks?
If you work out the plank width so they follow the radius well, it is no problem.
If you work out the plank width so they follow the radius well, it is no problem.
TeddyDiver
12-20-2010, 02:29 PM
No, I don't.
They are plain sawn boards... In boatbuilding and carpentry quarter sawn is the standard. For stripboards and alike it's also practical to use larger plainsawn timber (like 2x5 sawn to 7/8 x 1 3/4's) to get the orientation right.
another thing..
Concur with WW
"the golden rule of boatbuilding where a fair line overrules a given dimension so if it floats in a frame notch so be it."
They are plain sawn boards... In boatbuilding and carpentry quarter sawn is the standard. For stripboards and alike it's also practical to use larger plainsawn timber (like 2x5 sawn to 7/8 x 1 3/4's) to get the orientation right.
another thing..
Concur with WW
"the golden rule of boatbuilding where a fair line overrules a given dimension so if it floats in a frame notch so be it."
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Ugh. This always happens on forums. :)
One person says vertical (athwartships) planking would be best, the other says bead and cove. Both people have built boats this way and both people are good at what they do.
War Whoop: What about having to sand the foam to get a round radius on a round hull? With the vertical strips, I have nothing to sand in many places and hundreds of feet less joining to do. I'm currently about 30" on center with my mold (seen above), so either way can work.
I'm really wondering here... which uses less hours?
One person says vertical (athwartships) planking would be best, the other says bead and cove. Both people have built boats this way and both people are good at what they do.
War Whoop: What about having to sand the foam to get a round radius on a round hull? With the vertical strips, I have nothing to sand in many places and hundreds of feet less joining to do. I'm currently about 30" on center with my mold (seen above), so either way can work.
I'm really wondering here... which uses less hours?
War Whoop
12-20-2010, 03:25 PM
Ugh. This always happens on forums. :)
One person says vertical (athwartships) planking would be best, the other says bead and cove. Both people have built boats this way and both people are good at what they do.
War Whoop: What about having to sand the foam to get a round radius on a round hull? With the vertical strips, I have nothing to sand in many places and hundreds of feet less joining to do. I'm currently about 30" on center with my mold (seen above), so either way can work.
I'm really wondering here... which uses less hours?
Here: You have to modify your fixture for full sheets OK no problem, I would make the decision now and get on with it,As mentioned do you have room to fasten and release the foam from the bottom side? and we are not talking a lot of lumber here.
The flip side is you have to process the planks and then glue them together.
One person says vertical (athwartships) planking would be best, the other says bead and cove. Both people have built boats this way and both people are good at what they do.
War Whoop: What about having to sand the foam to get a round radius on a round hull? With the vertical strips, I have nothing to sand in many places and hundreds of feet less joining to do. I'm currently about 30" on center with my mold (seen above), so either way can work.
I'm really wondering here... which uses less hours?
Here: You have to modify your fixture for full sheets OK no problem, I would make the decision now and get on with it,As mentioned do you have room to fasten and release the foam from the bottom side? and we are not talking a lot of lumber here.
The flip side is you have to process the planks and then glue them together.
SamSam
12-20-2010, 03:48 PM
They are plain sawn boards... In boatbuilding and carpentry quarter sawn is the standard. For stripboards and alike it's also practical to use larger plainsawn timber (like 2x5 sawn to 7/8 x 1 3/4's) to get the orientation right.
another thing..
Concur with WW
"the golden rule of boatbuilding where a fair line overrules a given dimension so if it floats in a frame notch so be it."
Oh, Ok, I just pulled that photo off the net to illustrate the bead and cove.
Yes, quartersawn has some advantages, but I've never known it to be a matter of much concern with carpentry.
Sure, the fair line is what you want, so if the batten is floating off the mold, you want to shim it before fastening so it doesn't get pulled unfair.
another thing..
Concur with WW
"the golden rule of boatbuilding where a fair line overrules a given dimension so if it floats in a frame notch so be it."
Oh, Ok, I just pulled that photo off the net to illustrate the bead and cove.
Yes, quartersawn has some advantages, but I've never known it to be a matter of much concern with carpentry.
Sure, the fair line is what you want, so if the batten is floating off the mold, you want to shim it before fastening so it doesn't get pulled unfair.
AndrewK
12-20-2010, 04:11 PM
CatBuilder, the battens MUST be full length, to make the notches attach a depth stop to a router, as already mentioned its the depth that is important not the length of the notch, make the notch oversize by 1/2" or so. Notching with a jigsaw or saber saw freehand is too difficult to get the depth exact as well as flat.
Use scraps to reinforce the thin bits, or rip up a couple of sheets into 8" strips.
Do not glue the extensions in the bilge ,you can glue the deck ones if you wish, self taping plaster board screws will do.
Remember the bilge area you need to be able to remove to do the glass overlap.
Use scraps to reinforce the thin bits, or rip up a couple of sheets into 8" strips.
Do not glue the extensions in the bilge ,you can glue the deck ones if you wish, self taping plaster board screws will do.
Remember the bilge area you need to be able to remove to do the glass overlap.
TeddyDiver
12-20-2010, 04:30 PM
One person says vertical (athwartships) planking would be best, the other says bead and cove. Both people have built boats this way and both people are good at what they do.
:D Just flip a coin or anything if there's no other issue. If the coin ends on its side then you have a new problem.. you have to use both methods ;)
:D Just flip a coin or anything if there's no other issue. If the coin ends on its side then you have a new problem.. you have to use both methods ;)
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 05:00 PM
one thing may that may be useful is to measure every station from the same datum and not from one to the next to eliminate accumulating errors
Yes, I found this out the hard way when I did one from the other the first time, then measured the overall length of the boat. It came up 3/4" short. Then, I measured every station from a table of distances I created from the bow (or zero station).
SamSam: Will reply soon. I'm thinking about your posts...
Yes, I found this out the hard way when I did one from the other the first time, then measured the overall length of the boat. It came up 3/4" short. Then, I measured every station from a table of distances I created from the bow (or zero station).
SamSam: Will reply soon. I'm thinking about your posts...
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 05:08 PM
,As mentioned do you have room to fasten and release the foam from the bottom side?
I probably don't. The lowest part of the form where the battens would be (closest to the floor) is currently 14" from the ground... a nasty ground, I might add. You might sneak in there, except the 2x6 strongback is only 8" off the ground, on some concrete blocks to keep it off the floor, that floods sometimes.
I could make the mold higher, but I'm having a really hard time reaching parts of it for layup as is.
Guess this might narrow the choice, huh?
I probably don't. The lowest part of the form where the battens would be (closest to the floor) is currently 14" from the ground... a nasty ground, I might add. You might sneak in there, except the 2x6 strongback is only 8" off the ground, on some concrete blocks to keep it off the floor, that floods sometimes.
I could make the mold higher, but I'm having a really hard time reaching parts of it for layup as is.
Guess this might narrow the choice, huh?
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 05:13 PM
Don't take this wrong, but you'd best be careful. You don't have the experience to go fast on this expensive project. My opinion is that a lot of those mold are too thin on one side and some are too thin on both sides. Some that are too thin on one side would have been alright if you had shifted the cutout to leave equal amounts on both sides, the ones that are too thin on both sides should have had been extended first with a piece in the center or one end and then the cutout made leaving enough on both ends. All the molds would then be lined up using reference marks instead of the ends of the mold.
The advantages to doing the vertical sheets vs bead and coved strips are obvious still, but you've lost a lot of the advantage by going ahead and cutting the mold stations.
You don't want to put short sticks between the stations. You'd have to measure and cut them pretty much individually. You'd have to put two fasteners in each end to keep them from twisting, that would be 4 fasteners at each station for each batten. They would warp and twist and sag being only supported on the ends. You would never get them aligned up in a fair plane to begin with.
With long battens, it would take one fastener per station, they would span multiple stations and remain fair while being stronger.
It would be 10 times faster than individual pieces also, except you now have to add in the process of either recutting the whole outline of the mold and then putting strips wherever you want, or holding the strips in place, marking the molds and then cutting notches to set the battens in.
If you cut notches, they really don't have to be squared up things with two straight sides where the batten fits in snugly. The only part that counts is where the batten sits, so instead of multiple cuts with a saber saw and possible chisel work, one wider swooping cut could be made where you rapidly slope in to the bottom, cut the bottom carefully and then rapidly slope out the other side leaving a flatbottom notch with rough, random sides. If you cut too deep the battens can be shimmed with playing cards or that sort of stuff before fastening.
Sister in junk like hoytedow suggests to beef the frames up, along with longitudinals on the outside. Home Depot or Lowes sells this for less than $300 Way faster and easier than screws and doesn't shift stuff around like hammering..
.http://img03.static-nextag.com/image/Porter-Cable-PC3PAK-3/1/000/007/340/713/734071399.jpg
But now again you have war whoops take on it to think about.
Here's something else. If you have to screw into the foam from the outside to hold it in place, is there enough room under your mold to get in there and do it?
This all makes sense, thanks.
I actually have plenty of left overs from cutting the stations, so that I can easily put enough sistered extenders on. Today, I was out getting some materials I needed. I will work on this soon.
I had to keep my mold low to the ground so that I could both reach it (it's 8' wide, obviously) and so that I could lift the hulls out with a set of these when they are done:
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/TxZTLIcjm11rtqBaMshTdzVsQpDeHuIqEFsAC3rSJhTCl8IiiVzqOsfZujOT4eCYyMYL0amULp1uCgsM00N9Utcb_Kqh0KsFc5_UXynz8eelkyClACckIMZcRVfmD1SUjdZs2_IvWEglXHUaxHX1Z4Qh7TSyW8BeoIOOYQxOv3SZty1uWGAPJnCS71HzcQTZv2KwgYv13ZEuxlmBp2Ju=s90
So, there are all kinds of restrictions and limitations at play here. Not fun. But I guess this may leave me to strip planking after all, since I can't get under my mold without raising it. If I did raise it, I wouldn't be able to lift the hulls out or even reach parts of it.
Hope sanding the foam round doesn't suck too much!:eek:
Another dumb question: Can I walk on the foam once it's glassed??
As in... if I glass an easy, flat, topsides portion of the hull, can I stand on that when I need to reach the bilge and deck areas, or will it ruin the foam, the bond or something else?
The advantages to doing the vertical sheets vs bead and coved strips are obvious still, but you've lost a lot of the advantage by going ahead and cutting the mold stations.
You don't want to put short sticks between the stations. You'd have to measure and cut them pretty much individually. You'd have to put two fasteners in each end to keep them from twisting, that would be 4 fasteners at each station for each batten. They would warp and twist and sag being only supported on the ends. You would never get them aligned up in a fair plane to begin with.
With long battens, it would take one fastener per station, they would span multiple stations and remain fair while being stronger.
It would be 10 times faster than individual pieces also, except you now have to add in the process of either recutting the whole outline of the mold and then putting strips wherever you want, or holding the strips in place, marking the molds and then cutting notches to set the battens in.
If you cut notches, they really don't have to be squared up things with two straight sides where the batten fits in snugly. The only part that counts is where the batten sits, so instead of multiple cuts with a saber saw and possible chisel work, one wider swooping cut could be made where you rapidly slope in to the bottom, cut the bottom carefully and then rapidly slope out the other side leaving a flatbottom notch with rough, random sides. If you cut too deep the battens can be shimmed with playing cards or that sort of stuff before fastening.
Sister in junk like hoytedow suggests to beef the frames up, along with longitudinals on the outside. Home Depot or Lowes sells this for less than $300 Way faster and easier than screws and doesn't shift stuff around like hammering..
.http://img03.static-nextag.com/image/Porter-Cable-PC3PAK-3/1/000/007/340/713/734071399.jpg
But now again you have war whoops take on it to think about.
Here's something else. If you have to screw into the foam from the outside to hold it in place, is there enough room under your mold to get in there and do it?
This all makes sense, thanks.
I actually have plenty of left overs from cutting the stations, so that I can easily put enough sistered extenders on. Today, I was out getting some materials I needed. I will work on this soon.
I had to keep my mold low to the ground so that I could both reach it (it's 8' wide, obviously) and so that I could lift the hulls out with a set of these when they are done:
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/TxZTLIcjm11rtqBaMshTdzVsQpDeHuIqEFsAC3rSJhTCl8IiiVzqOsfZujOT4eCYyMYL0amULp1uCgsM00N9Utcb_Kqh0KsFc5_UXynz8eelkyClACckIMZcRVfmD1SUjdZs2_IvWEglXHUaxHX1Z4Qh7TSyW8BeoIOOYQxOv3SZty1uWGAPJnCS71HzcQTZv2KwgYv13ZEuxlmBp2Ju=s90
So, there are all kinds of restrictions and limitations at play here. Not fun. But I guess this may leave me to strip planking after all, since I can't get under my mold without raising it. If I did raise it, I wouldn't be able to lift the hulls out or even reach parts of it.
Hope sanding the foam round doesn't suck too much!:eek:
Another dumb question: Can I walk on the foam once it's glassed??
As in... if I glass an easy, flat, topsides portion of the hull, can I stand on that when I need to reach the bilge and deck areas, or will it ruin the foam, the bond or something else?
SamSam
12-20-2010, 05:15 PM
:D Just flip a coin or anything if there's no other issue. If the coin ends on its side then you have a new problem.. you have to use both methods ;)On one carpentry job we were flipping coins, betting on getting the closest to the plywood joint in the floor. One guys bounced and stuck edgewise in the crack. He won that round! ;)
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 05:21 PM
CatBuilder, the battens MUST be full length, to make the notches attach a depth stop to a router, as already mentioned its the depth that is important not the length of the notch, make the notch oversize by 1/2" or so. Notching with a jigsaw or saber saw freehand is too difficult to get the depth exact as well as flat.
Use scraps to reinforce the thin bits, or rip up a couple of sheets into 8" strips.
Do not glue the extensions in the bilge ,you can glue the deck ones if you wish, self taping plaster board screws will do.
Remember the bilge area you need to be able to remove to do the glass overlap.
Something just came to mind, Andrew. Can't I just tape the inside of the bilge first, then move the complete hull off the mold, doing the outside somewhere else? Isn't that the way it's done?
BTW: I went with the fully cored bilge. Remember, I had 3 bilge layups to choose from.
This should work, right?
Use scraps to reinforce the thin bits, or rip up a couple of sheets into 8" strips.
Do not glue the extensions in the bilge ,you can glue the deck ones if you wish, self taping plaster board screws will do.
Remember the bilge area you need to be able to remove to do the glass overlap.
Something just came to mind, Andrew. Can't I just tape the inside of the bilge first, then move the complete hull off the mold, doing the outside somewhere else? Isn't that the way it's done?
BTW: I went with the fully cored bilge. Remember, I had 3 bilge layups to choose from.
This should work, right?
hoytedow
12-20-2010, 05:44 PM
I mentioned gorilla glue because it sets very quickly and is good for the application I suggested because it will save you time. Just don't get it on you or it will be harder to get off than titebond.
variverrunner
12-20-2010, 06:06 PM
Catbuilder.
My 2 cents is to go with the Titebond glue. A few air nails to hold the pieces together. Gorilla glue is probably overkill and messy.
Best of luck
Allan
My 2 cents is to go with the Titebond glue. A few air nails to hold the pieces together. Gorilla glue is probably overkill and messy.
Best of luck
Allan
Steve W
12-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Go with the titebond, if you predrill the clearance holes thru the battens before you instal the foam and you have 8" under the mold you should be able to use a battery right angle drill to drive the screws into the foam, you will develop a light touch.
Steve.
Steve.
CatBuilder
12-20-2010, 09:38 PM
Go with the titebond, if you predrill the clearance holes thru the battens before you instal the foam and you have 8" under the mold you should be able to use a battery right angle drill to drive the screws into the foam, you will develop a light touch.
Steve.
I was thinking maybe I could use one of these too:
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_5085.jpg
I'll have to really put some thought into this. Maybe there is a way I can jack it up higher while I build, then lower it when it comes time to take the half hull out of the mold.
Anybody know if I can walk on the fiberglassed foam while it's in the mold? :?:
Steve.
I was thinking maybe I could use one of these too:
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_5085.jpg
I'll have to really put some thought into this. Maybe there is a way I can jack it up higher while I build, then lower it when it comes time to take the half hull out of the mold.
Anybody know if I can walk on the fiberglassed foam while it's in the mold? :?:
Steve W
12-20-2010, 10:13 PM
If you need to walk on the glassed foam i would lay down a plank which will span a bunch of forms to walk on so as not to contaminate and so you dont damage the foam since it has no glass on the other side yet.
Steve
Steve
variverrunner
12-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Catbuilder,
My 2 cents again. Do a sample, step on it, jump on it and check it out. Test Test Test. You can always lay some 1/4" ply or maybe foam: whatever you have on hand, to spread the load.
I wish you and your project the best.
Allan
My 2 cents again. Do a sample, step on it, jump on it and check it out. Test Test Test. You can always lay some 1/4" ply or maybe foam: whatever you have on hand, to spread the load.
I wish you and your project the best.
Allan
hoytedow
12-21-2010, 05:23 AM
Posters #67 and #68 are right. Spread the weight and do a test. I am out-voted on the glue so follow their advice and use titebond. Get some gorilla glue and test it too. There are some great uses for it as it is dense polyurethane foam and expands as it cures. It is great for filling small holes and building up damaged areas etc above the water line. Really worth investigating.
SamSam
12-21-2010, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by Steve W http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/bead-cove-router-bits-where-buy-usa-35929-2.html#post429059)
Go with the titebond, if you predrill the clearance holes thru the battens before you instal the foam and you have 8" under the mold you should be able to use a battery right angle drill to drive the screws into the foam, you will develop a light touch.
Steve.
I was thinking maybe I could use one of these too:
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_5085.jpg
I have some old vinyl signs about 4'x6' that I throw on the ground when going under stuff that allows me to slide around easily but stay out of the dirt. They aren't solid vinyl but cloth like like some bimini tops. They are stiff enough so they don't wad up like a plastic tarp. When going into the crawlspace under my house, a nasty, mildly frightening experience (I had a spider fall IN my ear once, I know there's snakes, I find skins), in addition to the signs, I have some strips of rubber roofing (like innertube rubber) 4' x 15' that I can roll out ahead of me as I go. Using two of them I can roll them out and pull them up and roll them out and go anywhere, changing directions, etc.
The angle drill using a magnetic bit and steel screws will allow you to reach in with just your arm pretty far and you might have only a few places that are really hard to get at and also you might not have to fasten the foam everywhere either.
Go with the titebond, if you predrill the clearance holes thru the battens before you instal the foam and you have 8" under the mold you should be able to use a battery right angle drill to drive the screws into the foam, you will develop a light touch.
Steve.
I was thinking maybe I could use one of these too:
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_5085.jpg
I have some old vinyl signs about 4'x6' that I throw on the ground when going under stuff that allows me to slide around easily but stay out of the dirt. They aren't solid vinyl but cloth like like some bimini tops. They are stiff enough so they don't wad up like a plastic tarp. When going into the crawlspace under my house, a nasty, mildly frightening experience (I had a spider fall IN my ear once, I know there's snakes, I find skins), in addition to the signs, I have some strips of rubber roofing (like innertube rubber) 4' x 15' that I can roll out ahead of me as I go. Using two of them I can roll them out and pull them up and roll them out and go anywhere, changing directions, etc.
The angle drill using a magnetic bit and steel screws will allow you to reach in with just your arm pretty far and you might have only a few places that are really hard to get at and also you might not have to fasten the foam everywhere either.
CatBuilder
12-21-2010, 09:43 AM
Ok, I have a new development. Gurit wants to sell me 2' x 4' sheets of core cell for a decent price. (1/4 the normal full size panel)
Will this be a tremendous pain in the ass to save some money? Worth doing?
Gurit is suggesting I can use composite staples to hold the foam together instead of gluing them to make it easier. Thoughts?
Will this be a tremendous pain in the ass to save some money? Worth doing?
Gurit is suggesting I can use composite staples to hold the foam together instead of gluing them to make it easier. Thoughts?
War Whoop
12-21-2010, 02:36 PM
Ok, I have a new development. Gurit wants to sell me 2' x 4' sheets of core cell for a decent price. (1/4 the normal full size panel)
Will this be a tremendous pain in the ass to save some money? Worth doing?
Gurit is suggesting I can use composite staples to hold the foam together instead of gluing them to make it easier. Thoughts?
??? Just glue them together at whatever length you need.
Will this be a tremendous pain in the ass to save some money? Worth doing?
Gurit is suggesting I can use composite staples to hold the foam together instead of gluing them to make it easier. Thoughts?
??? Just glue them together at whatever length you need.
AndrewK
12-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Something just came to mind, Andrew. Can't I just tape the inside of the bilge first, then move the complete hull off the mold, doing the outside somewhere else? Isn't that the way it's done?
Yes you can do that but it increases the chance of putting dents into the foam. Your mold/form is the best support why not use it. It will only take 1/2 hr to take off the bilge section and 1 hr to put it back. Once you have the outer laminate on one side then you can take the hull out and just support it on two pads or even on a bunch of old tires.
This should work, right?
I had fewer battens than in your photo also only 600gsm inner laminate, I put down scraps of 3mm mdf to walk on. Had no dents from my 75kg.
Yes you can do that but it increases the chance of putting dents into the foam. Your mold/form is the best support why not use it. It will only take 1/2 hr to take off the bilge section and 1 hr to put it back. Once you have the outer laminate on one side then you can take the hull out and just support it on two pads or even on a bunch of old tires.
This should work, right?
I had fewer battens than in your photo also only 600gsm inner laminate, I put down scraps of 3mm mdf to walk on. Had no dents from my 75kg.
AndrewK
12-21-2010, 04:18 PM
That is a huge saving so go for it, as War Whoop said glue it together. Staples are fine for flat sheets on a table or thermoformed pieces in a mold when infusing. But you will be torturing yours to a small degree.
CatBuilder
12-21-2010, 07:40 PM
Thanks. Just wanted to run that by people before I made any purchasing mistakes. The core cell (in small pieces) is ordered.
Steve W
12-23-2010, 02:22 PM
One thing to keep in mind when laying anything over your laminate to walk on is cleanliness,you dont want to contaminate the surface,even though you may be done with that part of the layup there may be secondary bonding and certainly painting to happen later. In fact just always be thinking how to keep things from getting contaminated throughout the project starting with storing your materials after you take delivery.You have mentioned that water can run your shop etc. If there is any possibilitiy of roof leaks,cover your raw materials. Keep it off the floor etc, keep your rolls of glass in their plastic bags when not being used etc etc etc. Soo.. dont go using that dirty crap youve used down in the crawlspace,use something clean,and reasonably stiff to spread the point loading of say, a foot.
BTW,i know what you mean about the crawlspace, i am just writing this to avoid getting back down in mine,ive got the floor ripped up and am replacing 10 joists and laying down plastic over the dirt to try to limit moisture damage,its nasty down there,at least i dont have snakes.
Steve.
BTW,i know what you mean about the crawlspace, i am just writing this to avoid getting back down in mine,ive got the floor ripped up and am replacing 10 joists and laying down plastic over the dirt to try to limit moisture damage,its nasty down there,at least i dont have snakes.
Steve.
hoytedow
12-23-2010, 04:27 PM
Learn it, live it and love it.: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/onlineguide.htm
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/snakekey.htm
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/snakekey.htm
CatBuilder
12-23-2010, 04:51 PM
Good advice, Steve. Thanks. I got a special storage container for materials thinking exactly what you are saying. I will have to install bulkheads after walking on the laminate so I will definitely be careful. I'm thinking I can put something down the center for walking on and that should be sufficient. Something clean with no oils on it. New wood, possibly?
I have been vacuuming the shop every day and trying to turn it from a grungy place into a laboratory, basically. Keeping things clean.
Hoyt: I did the sistered, butted, glued and screwed add ons to the mold anywhere it was kind of spindly. It's much more rugged now. I did 3 or 4 on the bilge side and 12 or 13 of them on the deck side.
Time to level things up again, plumb things up again and start putting in some long runners to hold the mold as well as longitudinal runners to hold the foam up.
Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though...
I have been vacuuming the shop every day and trying to turn it from a grungy place into a laboratory, basically. Keeping things clean.
Hoyt: I did the sistered, butted, glued and screwed add ons to the mold anywhere it was kind of spindly. It's much more rugged now. I did 3 or 4 on the bilge side and 12 or 13 of them on the deck side.
Time to level things up again, plumb things up again and start putting in some long runners to hold the mold as well as longitudinal runners to hold the foam up.
Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though...
hoytedow
12-23-2010, 05:07 PM
"Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though..."
You might want to imply bait and switch unless you think it will scotch the whole deal.
You might want to imply bait and switch unless you think it will scotch the whole deal.
CatBuilder
12-23-2010, 05:39 PM
"Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though..."
You might want to imply bait and switch unless you think it will scotch the whole deal.
It was bait and switch, but I am going to wait it out and see if they accept an offer in compromise.
You might want to imply bait and switch unless you think it will scotch the whole deal.
It was bait and switch, but I am going to wait it out and see if they accept an offer in compromise.
rberrey
12-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Cat I do a lot of concrete form work , the use of flat materials in form work cause flat spots. In boat building the frames are cut to the proper curves but the battens are not , they are tourtured and have flat spots that will cause flat spots in your hull. I will build a male form using pvc pipe bow to stearn to get a fair curve, if I need to stiffen it up I will mark the curve on a peice of ply just like I did for my frames, cut to the curve and incorperate it into my form. I will strip the form with masonate , hold the foam in place with ties and or buttens and use raptor copulas from bateau. rick
Steve W
12-23-2010, 08:08 PM
Cat, ive kinda lost track of where you are at,have you made the decision between strip planking or vertical stripping? If the forms were made to the outside of the foam for the strip planking method and you are changing to the vertical stripping and as you mentioned in post #78, you still need to level and plumb the forms,you may find it easiest to bite the bullet and dismantle the forms and notch in full length stringers to attatch the foam to. It will be easier to do on some saw horses as you can make a routing template for the notch that is wider than the stringer but the exact depth so you can rout in and out using a top bearing pattern bit in a big router. I would scarf up the stringers before tearing down the forms so you can mark the positions first. It sucks to go backwards but to try to use shorts between the forms would take more time and not be fair. If on the other hand the forms allow for the thickness of the stringers ignore this.
Steve.
Steve.
CatBuilder
12-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Sorry, Steve. I probably should update more often if I'm going to ask questions.
I made the decision to go with the vertical/athwartships sections. I've already leveled and plumbed everything once. I'm just very *very* anal with this part of things because I know if I get this right, the rest is a lot easier. If I get this wrong, I'll have a date with bog and some hell with fairing. So... I'm double and triple leveling and plumbing things up.
I have a router set up and am ready to start cutting notches into the forms as soon as I mark them all at the proper depth to insert the long battens.
I will pre-drill the holes in the long battens, as is suggested for this method. This helps you pull the foam down to the batten without having to drive a screw through the batten to get yourself started.
I also still need to scarf up the stringers, or maybe butt join them between forms. This week has been fully wasted dealing with vendors (and their tricks), so all I could get done so far was the the reinforcement Hoyt suggested in that drawing he uploaded further back.
Rick: Bateau is GREAT! Got some stuff from those guys. Will be sending a lot more their way. I suppose the battens could cause some flat spots between the forms (which are about 3' on center). The effect will be very minimal though, I think, especially since the foam comes out of the mold before it's glassed on that side. The battens only hold foam in place, because this is a female form. It acts like a big basket. You line it with foam, then glass the inside of it. You then pull it out of the form entirely, with a glassed inside and bare foam outside awaiting glass. You join it with another "half hull" and glass the outside. The long battens never are involved in your glass work. Make sense?
I made the decision to go with the vertical/athwartships sections. I've already leveled and plumbed everything once. I'm just very *very* anal with this part of things because I know if I get this right, the rest is a lot easier. If I get this wrong, I'll have a date with bog and some hell with fairing. So... I'm double and triple leveling and plumbing things up.
I have a router set up and am ready to start cutting notches into the forms as soon as I mark them all at the proper depth to insert the long battens.
I will pre-drill the holes in the long battens, as is suggested for this method. This helps you pull the foam down to the batten without having to drive a screw through the batten to get yourself started.
I also still need to scarf up the stringers, or maybe butt join them between forms. This week has been fully wasted dealing with vendors (and their tricks), so all I could get done so far was the the reinforcement Hoyt suggested in that drawing he uploaded further back.
Rick: Bateau is GREAT! Got some stuff from those guys. Will be sending a lot more their way. I suppose the battens could cause some flat spots between the forms (which are about 3' on center). The effect will be very minimal though, I think, especially since the foam comes out of the mold before it's glassed on that side. The battens only hold foam in place, because this is a female form. It acts like a big basket. You line it with foam, then glass the inside of it. You then pull it out of the form entirely, with a glassed inside and bare foam outside awaiting glass. You join it with another "half hull" and glass the outside. The long battens never are involved in your glass work. Make sense?
Steve W
12-23-2010, 10:00 PM
Cat,it is important to scarf the stringers so they will bend fair because when you screw the foam to the stringers, if there are flats you will lock in that unfairness when you glass the inside. Its real easy to do the scarfs, just stagger a bunch of material by roughly the length of the scarf,clamp them together, clamp on a straight edge to say,an 8:1 ratio and zip it off with a circular saw with a sharp blade, glue the scarfs with titebond. Stagger a bunch and clamp them together, use waxed lunchwrap to keep them from sticking to one another. If you butt them with blocks they wont bend fair and you will pay later.
Steve.
Steve.
War Whoop
12-23-2010, 10:09 PM
Yes I agree scarf and glue up the total lengths needed, then you can tack them to the frames using the offset of your router base to bit for a location and simply cut the notches also Butt blocks are a bad idea.
I used to notch for the battens with the frames in place on some of the plug work.
I would glue up with epoxy and drilling the screw clearance holes is a must do.
I used to notch for the battens with the frames in place on some of the plug work.
I would glue up with epoxy and drilling the screw clearance holes is a must do.
SamSam
12-23-2010, 10:42 PM
....because I know if I get this right, the rest is a lot easier. ....
I have a router set up and am ready to start cutting notches into the forms as soon as I mark them all at the proper depth to insert the long battens.
This helps you pull the foam down to the batten without having to drive a screw through the batten to get yourself started.
I also still need to scarf up the stringers,
Attention to detail is where quality comes from.
As Steve said... you can make a routing template for the notch that is wider than the stringer but the exact depth so you can rout in and out using a top bearing pattern bit in a big router. A template or guide of some sort is what you need. It is very hard to freehand rout to a drawn line. With a guide you don't have to intensely concentrate and it will go much faster and be much more accurate. You are going to have a few hundred notches. ?
Pre-drilling for the screws is a requirement, otherwise the foam won't pull down.
Scarf the battens.
Merry Christmas!
I have a router set up and am ready to start cutting notches into the forms as soon as I mark them all at the proper depth to insert the long battens.
This helps you pull the foam down to the batten without having to drive a screw through the batten to get yourself started.
I also still need to scarf up the stringers,
Attention to detail is where quality comes from.
As Steve said... you can make a routing template for the notch that is wider than the stringer but the exact depth so you can rout in and out using a top bearing pattern bit in a big router. A template or guide of some sort is what you need. It is very hard to freehand rout to a drawn line. With a guide you don't have to intensely concentrate and it will go much faster and be much more accurate. You are going to have a few hundred notches. ?
Pre-drilling for the screws is a requirement, otherwise the foam won't pull down.
Scarf the battens.
Merry Christmas!
CatBuilder
12-23-2010, 10:45 PM
Whoops! Good point about scarfing the battens. I'll make sure to do that. Thanks!
War Whoop
12-23-2010, 11:23 PM
Attention to detail is where quality comes from.
As Steve said... A template or guide of some sort is what you need. It is very hard to freehand rout to a drawn line. With a guide you don't have to intensely concentrate and it will go much faster and be much more accurate. You are going to have a few hundred notches. ?
Pre-drilling for the screws is a requirement, otherwise the foam won't pull down.
Scarf the battens.
Merry Christmas!
Location is important that is the reason I use the batten itself as a guide across the frames.
As Steve said... A template or guide of some sort is what you need. It is very hard to freehand rout to a drawn line. With a guide you don't have to intensely concentrate and it will go much faster and be much more accurate. You are going to have a few hundred notches. ?
Pre-drilling for the screws is a requirement, otherwise the foam won't pull down.
Scarf the battens.
Merry Christmas!
Location is important that is the reason I use the batten itself as a guide across the frames.
SamSam
12-24-2010, 10:07 AM
Location is important that is the reason I use the batten itself as a guide across the frames.So you're saying to rest the router base on a batten (or two) to regulate the depth and the straight bit (with no ball bearing) would be vertical? I hadn't thought of it that way, but that would work fine. I was thinking going at it with the router base on the side of the frame and the bit (with ball bearing pilot) horizontal, with a guide quickclamped to the side of the frame.
Avoiding free hand routing is the way to do it, no matter what.
Avoiding free hand routing is the way to do it, no matter what.
Steve W
12-24-2010, 10:40 AM
Yep,War Whoops way works well when the frames are already erected we used to use 2 stringers and spacers to neatly rout stringers into laminated frames on cold molded boats for the fwd and aft frames so we didnt need to bevel the frame.
Steve.
Steve.
CatBuilder
12-24-2010, 11:18 AM
Scarf joints are coming out like sh*t. Is there a way to do them that doesn't involve putting them on edge and using a circular saw? Table saw? Any other way?
War Whoop
12-24-2010, 11:21 AM
So you're saying to rest the router base on a batten (or two) to regulate the depth and the straight bit (with no ball bearing) would be vertical? I hadn't thought of it that way, but that would work fine. I was thinking going at it with the router base on the side of the frame and the bit (with ball bearing pilot) horizontal, with a guide quickclamped to the side of the frame.
Avoiding free hand routing is the way to do it, no matter what.
No I use the batten as a guide for the base of the router.
Avoiding free hand routing is the way to do it, no matter what.
No I use the batten as a guide for the base of the router.
War Whoop
12-24-2010, 11:26 AM
Scarf joints are coming out like sh*t. Is there a way to do them that doesn't involve putting them on edge and using a circular saw? Table saw? Any other way?
Yes a simple fixture on a table saw,or band saw ,two long wedges and a router setup with a mortising bit.
Yes a simple fixture on a table saw,or band saw ,two long wedges and a router setup with a mortising bit.
CatBuilder
12-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Yes a simple fixture on a table saw,or band saw ,two long wedges and a router setup with a mortising bit.
Ahh... yes! I much simpler jig than I thought for the table saw.
Here is a link to some other forum and a guy who made a nice jig for his table saw... real cheap.
Last time I scarfed (the only time) I was doing giant stacks of 3mm plywood with 12:1 scarfs. This is a different animal than the plywood scarfs, which were actually very easy. Did the "stack, clamp and grind/sand" method on those. The circular saw was just too in accurate (ok, maybe I was) and it was coming out bad.
Time to go out and try this method now. Looks good! (see link)
http://www.gatorboats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716
Ahh... yes! I much simpler jig than I thought for the table saw.
Here is a link to some other forum and a guy who made a nice jig for his table saw... real cheap.
Last time I scarfed (the only time) I was doing giant stacks of 3mm plywood with 12:1 scarfs. This is a different animal than the plywood scarfs, which were actually very easy. Did the "stack, clamp and grind/sand" method on those. The circular saw was just too in accurate (ok, maybe I was) and it was coming out bad.
Time to go out and try this method now. Looks good! (see link)
http://www.gatorboats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716
SamSam
12-24-2010, 12:47 PM
Scarf joints are coming out like sh*t. Is there a way to do them that doesn't involve putting them on edge and using a circular saw? Table saw? Any other way?
You can cut them freehand on a tablesaw for what you need. If you don't have a tablesaw, you can drill 4 holes in your circular saw base/plateen, and then make a plunge cut into a piece of scrap ply.
Unplug it and then screw the saw to the ply with some screws. Turn the ply over and screw/nail or clamp it to some sawhorses. Cut or break off the excess screw threads holding the saw, then wire down the trigger. Plug it in to turn it on and off.
That's a crude tablesaw I've used numerous times. To rig up a fence, put a straight edge lightly against the blade and then draw a line. That's zero. To set the fence, measure off the distance in front and back and clamp the straight edge there.
If you want to tilt the saw blade you have to widen the blade slot in the ply.
You can cut them freehand on a tablesaw for what you need. If you don't have a tablesaw, you can drill 4 holes in your circular saw base/plateen, and then make a plunge cut into a piece of scrap ply.
Unplug it and then screw the saw to the ply with some screws. Turn the ply over and screw/nail or clamp it to some sawhorses. Cut or break off the excess screw threads holding the saw, then wire down the trigger. Plug it in to turn it on and off.
That's a crude tablesaw I've used numerous times. To rig up a fence, put a straight edge lightly against the blade and then draw a line. That's zero. To set the fence, measure off the distance in front and back and clamp the straight edge there.
If you want to tilt the saw blade you have to widen the blade slot in the ply.
War Whoop
12-24-2010, 01:09 PM
Ahh... yes! I much simpler jig than I thought for the table saw.
Here is a link to some other forum and a guy who made a nice jig for his table saw... real cheap.
Last time I scarfed (the only time) I was doing giant stacks of 3mm plywood with 12:1 scarfs. This is a different animal than the plywood scarfs, which were actually very easy. Did the "stack, clamp and grind/sand" method on those. The circular saw was just too in accurate (ok, maybe I was) and it was coming out bad.
Time to go out and try this method now. Looks good! (see link)
http://www.gatorboats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716
Exactly!
Here is a link to some other forum and a guy who made a nice jig for his table saw... real cheap.
Last time I scarfed (the only time) I was doing giant stacks of 3mm plywood with 12:1 scarfs. This is a different animal than the plywood scarfs, which were actually very easy. Did the "stack, clamp and grind/sand" method on those. The circular saw was just too in accurate (ok, maybe I was) and it was coming out bad.
Time to go out and try this method now. Looks good! (see link)
http://www.gatorboats.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716
Exactly!
CatBuilder
12-24-2010, 03:38 PM
And that jig is working like a charm. I have perfect 8:1 scarfs going now. Thanks, and thanks to that mystery guy from the other forum too.
I did a test piece today, trying out the router (with no guide) and the jigsaw on vertical pieces of 3/4" plywood. The jigsaw was easier to do because I could see the line to cut to better.
Any reason I should use a router and jig, or can I just cut "C" shapes (with a flat bottom, of course to meet the batten) out of the standing forms?
Crazy thing is... it's already time to start figuring out how I'll lay the foam and do the glassing. Some battens need to be left out to get started on that.
I did a test piece today, trying out the router (with no guide) and the jigsaw on vertical pieces of 3/4" plywood. The jigsaw was easier to do because I could see the line to cut to better.
Any reason I should use a router and jig, or can I just cut "C" shapes (with a flat bottom, of course to meet the batten) out of the standing forms?
Crazy thing is... it's already time to start figuring out how I'll lay the foam and do the glassing. Some battens need to be left out to get started on that.
War Whoop
12-24-2010, 04:05 PM
See what line? you cut from the top edge to a set depth with a router, the width and the location are what you need to setup.
CatBuilder
12-24-2010, 04:13 PM
See what line? you cut from the top edge to a set depth with a router, the width and the location are what you need to setup.
Oh man, I'm dumb when it comes to woodworking!
I was doing it all wrong... like an idiot!
I was going at the vertical sheet of plywood holding the router *horizontally* to it! Feel free to laugh at me.
http://www.24hourforums.com/images/smilies/homer-simpson-doh.gif
I'll have to try that again using the router from the TOP this time.
Incidentally, won't the router not work properly due to the curve of the hull shape in the form then? If I got at it from the top, I can't cut a square line since my router will follow the curve. Is that a big deal?
Oh man, I'm dumb when it comes to woodworking!
I was doing it all wrong... like an idiot!
I was going at the vertical sheet of plywood holding the router *horizontally* to it! Feel free to laugh at me.
http://www.24hourforums.com/images/smilies/homer-simpson-doh.gif
I'll have to try that again using the router from the TOP this time.
Incidentally, won't the router not work properly due to the curve of the hull shape in the form then? If I got at it from the top, I can't cut a square line since my router will follow the curve. Is that a big deal?
War Whoop
12-24-2010, 04:24 PM
Oh man, I'm dumb when it comes to woodworking!
I was doing it all wrong... like an idiot!
I was going at the vertical sheet of plywood holding the router *horizontally* to it! Feel free to laugh at me.
http://www.24hourforums.com/images/smilies/homer-simpson-doh.gif
I'll have to try that again using the router from the TOP this time.
Incidentally, won't the router not work properly due to the curve of the hull shape in the form then? If I got at it from the top, I can't cut a square line since my router will follow the curve. Is that a big deal?
Just use a router with a small base and over cut a little to compensate for the inside radius if you have too (note your battens are flat) since you are concerned only about the middle here,the sides will be down.
I was doing it all wrong... like an idiot!
I was going at the vertical sheet of plywood holding the router *horizontally* to it! Feel free to laugh at me.
http://www.24hourforums.com/images/smilies/homer-simpson-doh.gif
I'll have to try that again using the router from the TOP this time.
Incidentally, won't the router not work properly due to the curve of the hull shape in the form then? If I got at it from the top, I can't cut a square line since my router will follow the curve. Is that a big deal?
Just use a router with a small base and over cut a little to compensate for the inside radius if you have too (note your battens are flat) since you are concerned only about the middle here,the sides will be down.
jjb
09-13-2011, 02:13 AM
This is an old topic but did u ever think about using a quarter round bit at two passes for ur bead and a one inch ball mill bit?
cthippo
09-13-2011, 10:13 PM
This is an old topic but did u ever think about using a quarter round bit at two passes for ur bead and a one inch ball mill bit?
Welcome aboard, JJB!
I don't know if he did, but being also in the process of setting up a bead and cove operation I would say that not only would double the number of passes, but also increase the potential for screw-ups.
While not for routers (at least not without an adaptor), Corob Cutters (http://corobcutters.com/) sells 1" bead and cove shaper heads. I bought a pair of their 1/4" bead and cove cutters for my strip machine, but I'm still waiting on the motors to drive them.
Welcome aboard, JJB!
I don't know if he did, but being also in the process of setting up a bead and cove operation I would say that not only would double the number of passes, but also increase the potential for screw-ups.
While not for routers (at least not without an adaptor), Corob Cutters (http://corobcutters.com/) sells 1" bead and cove shaper heads. I bought a pair of their 1/4" bead and cove cutters for my strip machine, but I'm still waiting on the motors to drive them.
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