Freighter Canoe Performance

[Bing]

Evening all,

Here's a couple of photos of some modifications I made to a Scott Hudson Bay 21 freighter canoe. My wife and I are in our third season of weeknd and occasional week-long cruising in this boat on portions of the Connecticut River, the NY State Barge Canals, and various lakes. I'm happy to report that the boat performs very well for what we use it for and that we have had loads of fun with it. I'd also like to give you some specifications and accurate performance data, but I'm not sure how best to go about that. What would be of interest to report, and how do I accurately test the boat? For example, I think the boat can make upwards 20 river miles on one gallon of gas, loaded with two people, gear, and provisions, at around 7 mph, with a Honda 8hp 4 stroke. Is that reasonable, or even remarkable? I really don't know how to orchestrate an accurate test to prove it. All I know is that we seem to use very little fuel on our trips. Couple that with being able to sleep, cook, and use the porta-loo onboard, and avoiding marina fees by beaching the boat on river islands for the night, we've enjoyed some mighty inexpensive vacations on some lovely waterways.

Your thoughts, questions, and comments would be appreciated,

Bing

[Submarine Tom]

Terrific report. Good for you!

What is the beam?

-Tom

[Bing]

Here are the advertised specifications for the boat from Mid Canada Fiberglass, makers of the Scott Canoe line:

Length 21'/6.3cm
Gunwale Width 56"/1.4cm
Transom Width 26"/66cm
4" Waterline Width 47"/1.2cm
Depth at Centre 20"/51cm
Bow Height 34"/86cm
Stern Height 22.5"/57cm
Rocker Moderate
Hull Shape Flat
Tumblehome
Asymmetric
Keel Triple
Capacity 6" Freeboard 2000lb/900kb
Weight: Fiberglass 250lb/113kg

[Tug]

I used a gps to get the info i needed...
Used 1 litre oil containers full of fuel to fill the gas tank everytime it ran out and took a picture of the info on my handheld gps...
I ran tank after tank to get a accurate average...
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/open-discussion/2-5-hp-suzuki-outboard-statistics-28797.html

cheers
Tug

[philSweet]

The info is of great importance for trip planning. What do you use as a point to point, sunrise to sunset ave speed when planning trips? What is your typical payload? As far as detailed info is concerned, try to provided "total weight of everything" with the same accuracy as the speed/distance/economy data. This is a pain to do. And tell us the prop you're using. If distance is being reported directly off GPS, try fiddling with the rate of data capture over a known course. A slower rate than the default can sometimes improve accuracy at slow speeds like these. (The gps calculates distance over a wiggly course if the datapoints are too close together). Don't worry if you come up short on some of this data. the detailed stuff is mostly a curiosity. The numbers you use for planning a comfortable trip are a goldmine. The ability to go an extra ten miles in a day will probably double the number of possible itineraries for a week-long trip- very important if you have to pull permits or make reservations.

Oh- and one other question- can you keep her looking like that when you travel or does she end up like this after a week!? (Where did that d*** stove go ??)

[troy2000]

Sweet-looking setup. Makes having a tent instead of a hard-top cabin look more reasonable on other types of boats, too.

[Bing]

Thank you, this is the kind of information I was looking for. I'll try to set up the test runs as you have described.

Yes, the cabin tent can stay up while motoring; in fact, I don't think I've ever taken it down on a trip. We can roll up the vinyl doors on either end and tuck the ends away, which makes for pretty good visibility while sitting. However, I stand up when motoring most of the time, using a telescoping tiller extension, and look over the tent, the top of which is just about chest high. Since these pictures were taken we've added a bimini back aft, the frame of which makes for a much more secure "cage" to stand up in. We also have a "picinc" canvas that only provides sun shade, which we use when we take out another couple for an evening dinner cruise.

We keep all the equipment in bench lockers, so I guess I have to confess that we keep the boat pretty ship shape most of the time. I know what you mean about loading and unloading a typical canoe every night. That's one of the reasons we set the boat up as it is. Too often we couldn't find an on shore camping spot. Now it doesn't even concern us.

[hoytedow]

Sweet-looking setup. Makes having a tent instead of a hard-top cabin look more reasonable on other types of boats, too.It saves a lot of weight and cuts down on wind resistance. I like it.

[Bing]

Yes, the cabin tent does not weight much, probably around 15 pounds. The curvature seems to spill the wind right over it, though I can't say we've been out in a big blow. If we did need to keep on going through a high wind long fetch area, say to cross a bay or lake, we can drop the tent in about 5 minutes, throw on the mooring cover from the bow to just aft of the rear cabin bulkhead, hunker down, and go slow. These boats are famous for weathering Canadian lakes in all kinds of weather with a full load, including a moose or two. Here's a shot of the cabin interior.

I need to take some new photos; these are a year old and don't show the further modifications I've made, nor the boats new color scheme.

[Bing]

Another question, if I may. How does one test for and rate stability? While I can say the boat is much more stable than it looks, that's just my way of saying that I've grown accustomed to and comfortable with the boat's motion in a variety of situations. Are there methods of quantifying stability without going in to theoretical calculations, such as getting four good friends to stand on one gunnel?

Here's a picture taken this morning upon returning from an overnight on the Connecticut River north of Hanover, New Hampshire.

[troy2000]

Is that a custom tent, or were you able to find a standard model you could adapt to your needs?

[Bing]

Yes, this is a custom Sunbrella tent. Bev, at Village Canvas of Meredith, NH, gets credit for constructing the tent from my general design sketch. The original thought was to have a hard top (I was thinking a Bolger Birdwatcher style), so when I added the higher coamings to the cabin section I did not follow the boat's sheer, thinking this would make installing the top easier. In the end, due to weight and stability and constructability issues, I opted for a canvas top, which has worked wonderfully, but I wish I had made the coaming follow the sheer; it would have looked better.

With the tent collapsed and the boat cover on the boat is much more aerodynamic to trailer, another reason not to have a hard top.

The bimini has worked beautifully as well, providing sun and rain shade when standing, which as I said before is my favored conning position. In a howling wind I would certainly collapse the bimini, which can be done in less than a minute, as I do have a fear of the thing becomming a sail in a beam wind and catching the boat on a roll.

My next project is to mount a remote throttle and shift lever, and replacing the stock tiller with a longer, more ridgid one. I hadn't thought about that when I bought the boat, but clambering back over the seat back to shift isn't pretty or safe, and makes manuevering in tight quarters a challenge. Once the remote and tiller are done I may add a collapsable safety bar over the seat back to lessen the chance of toppling overboard, though I have to say that standing up back there feels much more stable than sitting.

I have thought about stick steering, but I can't see any advantage to that unless one were to move the helm up forward, under the tent perhaps, but that doesn't seem desirable to me. With the motor swivel tightened down a bit to hold the engine in line (though not enough to hamper steering), I don't actually touch the tiller much when cruising. It's a simple matter of shifting my weight to steer, and I have gone three or four hours like that, following a meandering river and never touching the tiller. Of course I have to adjust the engine position when my wife decides to move to the other side of the boat.

Here's a picture of the view from the "bridge" as we approach a lock on the Champlain Canal.

Bing

[srimes]

Looks dangerous if the wind picks up. I'd be nervous to travel with the tent up. I had a 17' aluminum canoe blow over on a calm section of a river, and I talked with a drift boat fishing guide who said their boats can flip if it gets too windy, especially if the wind is blowing upstream.

[Bing]

As I said before, you wouldn't want to keep the tent or bimini up in extreme conditions. If I were crossing a large bay or lake with lots of fetch and subject to hi gusts, I would keep the rig down just to play it safe. Once across, in ten minutes the rig is back up.

One thing you will find with freighter canoes, and I guess this would apply to any small narrow boat, is that other boat wakes aren't all that fun. While I've never been concerned with flipping over, the confused water that fast cruisers can throw up just isn't pleasant. When I can expect the wind and wave direction, a 2ft chop isn't all that bad, but toss in crossing wakes and it's not a place to be. While I'd like to do the Loop, I'm sure there are many places on the route where this boat would not be safe (besides, that's a long time in a canoe -- I would prefer a trawler of some sort I'm sure). But if you want to cruise rivers and canals with a very shallow draft boat, very economically, with reasonable creature comforts, and towable by a small SUV or pick-up, affordable freighters might be something to consider.

Bing

[Wavewacker]

Great to see this! I have asked questions about hauling my morotcycle and doing what you have accomplished, but with the Loop. What is you opinion of adding amas/stabilizers/pora? Making that a tri, perhaps with a little storage on either side above the water/gunnels. What's your opinion of a small sil rig at the bow?

Your tentage is excellent! I have seen arched bows, forming a cuddy on an open aluminum V hull about 16'. Snapped along the gunnels and like a hard deck initially at the bow and having a higher transition as it moved to the rear to about half way. Would that work on your setup?

Speaking of wakes. I have a 15.6 cheapie RAMX I bought to try to rig for sailiing. I was on Tablerock Lake in a cove near my cabin. I had a date for a romantic excursion, we just got away and were both liiking the wrong way, I started to say something and only had time to catch my breath as we went over. Yes, I was sober. We recovered and went back to the cabin, she was not impressed! Srimes, I've never been blown over on calm water, except in my younger days floating with Budwiser.

Back to your rig, I have not really had a canoe that long (and I was thinking 24') to paddle in any chop. Guess I would have to practice, but I can handle class 2/3 rapids, 10/12' with flotation. How responsive is it at 20+ feet? I'm thinking the Mississippi, in a breeze there can be chop and barges throw a wake! Would the outriggers be sufficient, for safe passage?

Have you been out in cool nights...no, cold nights up there? I did Artic training at Ft. Drum, Ny. LOL...How does the tentage work for you? I see many possibilities as a camp cruise. I won't mention my morotcycyle again, but a small generator, electric rig? 6 or 8 inches above the gunnels for a hard curved deck over, how would that fair in your opinion (anyones)?

Do you use a dolly/portage system or is it too big to pull over sandbars?

Thanks, I'm pumped on your cruiser.

[Bing]

Morning Wavewacker,

When I first bought the boat in 2006 I had asked the forum about outriggers/amas. At the time I was thinking to use the boat for a completely different purpose. Search "Stabilizing a Big Freighter Canoe" to see the short discussion. In my opinion, yes, I think you can add a set of outriggers.

Yes, I think you could easily design a tent for a freighter that started low up front and increased in height as one went further aft. You would want a zippered opening up front to access your ground tackle and to handle lines and what not.

Unless you mount a set of oars, you cannot paddle a boat this size for any distance, especially alone. We carry two paddles to beach the boat as the bottom shallows, to pull us up into shallow tributaries, and for general maneuvering alongside piers and in the locks. Alone, I find I can more easily move the boat by facing aft and paddling the boat astern, letting the length of it fishtail behind me. Otherwise, the faintest of breezes will carry the boat all over the place. I have not allowed for a rowing station on Odonata (I don't think I mentioned the boat's name before), though I have thought a lot about it. The easiest approach would be to drop and store away the tent, so one wouldn't have to be concerned about getting the oars under the tent and deployed somehow, as in a Bolger Dovekie. But then how do I store two 10 ft oars? I do indeed want an alternative means of propulsion (running out of gas three miles from the nearest marina cannot easily be resolved with two paddles). I think my best option is a sculling oar over the stern. The cabin can stay up, and I only have one oar to store. I've had a brief discussion with Shaw and Tenney about that.

This is a small tent, though it's quite roomy inside with sitting head room. Leaving a vent open, you can heat it pretty quickly with a candle on a frosty morning. Boiling a pot of water on the butane stove will make the space toasty quite quickly. I've been on the Connecticut river in mid November and been very comfortable.

We fittted a small aluminum deck over the bow, which affords a place to attach a substantial cleat for the anchor and for being towed, should that ever be necessary, a mount for the flagstaff and portable nav lights, and a cover for the ground tackle and other items stored below. You could make any style or size of hard deck you wanted to suit your needs.

This boat is probably too big to pull over a sandbar. The bare hull is 450 pounds. If you are alone, forget it.

Your questions, Wavewacker, are the kinds of questions that I hope a lot of folks will continue to ask about freighter canoes. Whether you buy one from a Scott Canoe dealer, or you build one, say one of Tim Marchetti's designs, you will end up with basically a big open hull that you can use straight up, immediately, or, with some ingenuity and fairly easy work, a hull that can be adapted fill a lot of roles.

There are limitations. The hulls are thin, so keep an good eye ahead and watch for rocks and floating limbs (though to read the threads about these boats in Alaskan and Canadian hunting forums you'd think the hulls are nearly indestructbile -- or at least quite easily repaired). Narrow boats roll a lot and you feel every wake and ripple, so you have to keep the weight down low and get used to it or you will spill your wine (my wife and I can both stand on the gunnel on the same side with plenty of reserve freeboard, so don't take this to mean you have to be overly worried about rolling over -- the biggest thing I worry about is the boat being swamped over the transom by a big overtaking wake, or while going astern -- really no more concern than with any other small boat). And you can reach a point quickly where what one wants a boat to do might best be addressed with a bigger and wider boat.

For around $4300 for a new Scott Hudson Bay 21 ready to go and maybe $1000 for a trailer, and say $1900 for an 8hp Tohatsu 4 stroke, your are in business. It's a lot of boat for the money.

Bing

[Easy Rider]

Bing,
It will amaze you how well the stern will rise to the occasion of a stern sea if most of the weight is kept amidship. My Clipper has a small self bailing well aft as it has a narrow stern (made from a doubble end canoe mould). Emergency oars ..consider short oars or take-apart. I think for canoes (even large ones) 4-stroke OBs are too heavy. Like Timothy says on his thread the 2-stroke is so small it burns very little fuel and is much lighter (60lbs for 8hp). You can take the engine off and drag or carry the boat up the beach. No need to line out but it is a bit of work and in some situations it's worth it.

Easy Rider

[Bing]

Couldn't agree more, Easy Rider, especially about keeping the weight distributed so the boat sits flat on the water. The bad wake events have occured when we were beached and wake waves tripped on the shallows, breaking over the transom or side and into the boat, or when I wasn't paying attention and backed in to an incomming wake.

Maybe 10 foot oars are too long, but I know 8 footers are too short, as I've tried that size. The top of the coaming is too high above the water. The take apart I like, but I'm persuaded a sculling oar is the way to go in my case. Maybe the sculling oar can be broken down.

I hadn't thought about a 2-stroke, which at the time didn't seem attractive over a quiet, low odor, less polluting 4 stroke. I understand that 2-strokes are much cleaner and quieter now (there's probably hundreds of posts about this issue, and I have no experience to address the subject), so it would seem that new owners might seriously consider them. While I don't take the motor off the boat much, 98 lbs is a struggle when I do. I can see where removing the motor on the beach could be a good thing, though where you are camping ashore, we camp on the boat.

There are a lot of things to think about when fitting one of these freighter canoes out for a cruise. And it's all fun.

Bing

[Wavewacker]

Bing and Easy Rider, I am seriously considering this concept. I have made several annoying posts, I'm sure, about my "need" to take a 420 pound dual sport motorcycle. I don't see the weight being a problem. but it's bulky and would need a method of loading and unloading. The CG of this bike is about 20" high. That is the real reason I was consering outriggers, just to keep water out of the cylinders, just in case. I can also bag it and water proof it. IS this feasibale for a freighter canoe?

As to your oars, can't they stay in the oar locks and latch off/tie off to the sides?

I'm not a designer or an engineer or a NA, I just use and enjoy boats. This site is providing an education that appears to be addictive, so I'm learning after about 50 years of being on lakes and rivers.

As to being pooped, I have seen some canvas decking that looks pretty nice. Good point as to the zippers at the bow. needs to be open enough to hop on and off too. It seem to me if I were crazy enough to take that into the gulf or ICW, that a full snap on cover with a cockpit opening would be appropriate. Like a giant kayak, could even have a skirt made to keep the splash out or from being pooped. Did I see something like that in an old picture over a lifeboat, with peoples heads poped up from a cover?

I will try to find that thread on outriggers. Thanks

[Bing]

Hi Wavewacker,

I'm not a boat designer either, but there are clearly many designers who frequent this forum. To get your questions addressed, maybe you should first just lay out what your design criteria are, rather than asking if this or that idea would work for you. I bet that when everyone knew exactly what you wanted to do, where you wanted to go, what your budget is, etc. (et cetera is a pretty long list if I understand the "design spiral" correctly), folks might offer some suggestions about what existing boat design for building, or an existing manufactured boat, could best fulfill your needs. My gut feeling is that you are asking too much of a typical freighter canoe, and I suspect that there is a more practical boat design out there for what you want to do. Maybe you should start a new post on the topic. I'd certainly be interested in seeing what you eventually come up with. Best wishes and much fun to you.

Bing

[Bing]

Wavewacker, I see that you are laying out your design criteria on other threads, which is great. Though having read some of the other threads you posted in, and more fully understanding what you want, I'd have to say that a freighter canoe is most likely not a good choice for you.

Bing

[srimes]

how big to freighter canoes get? Your 21 footer is big for a canoe, but it's still a small boat at 4' beam and 450 lb. Enough for a couple to camp cruise economically, but what if you throw in a couple of kids? A 30' x 6' should be big enough to sleep 4, and I'm guesstimating 2000 lb ready to go, so it'd still be easy to trailer, and economical with a 25-40 horse outboard. What do y'all think?

[Easy Rider]

Srimes,
Search Clipper Canoes and see canoes to 41'. The really big canoes are not square stern but my 18' square stern (a Clipper) was made by putting a dam in the mould of a doubble end 20' freight canoe. It's a common practice w larger cruisers. I'll bet Clipper would make a one-off this way. Use a 36' mould w a dam 8' ahead of the stern and you've got an instant 28' freighter. Will not be cheap but they are very good at what they do. One could also cut down the extremely high (birch bark) style bow to something like Timothy's freighter.

Easy

[Wavewacker]

Thanks Easy Rider and Bing. You'll see in other threads that I have reconsidered and I will probably drop the sailing requirement. Although I am willing to give up efficiency for function. I think my canoe was turning into a Pearl anyway. Think I'll get another Hobbie 16 or go to the 18', a good beach cat for my area, I'm just getting at the age now I don't really care to get wet everytime I go out!

[Bing]

Srimes,

There is a point where the cost of a really big freighter canoe and the conversion work one has to do to make it a river camper, will exceed the cost of other types of boats that might be more suited to what you want to do. If I thought I needed a 30 ft boat for mom, dad, and two teenagers, I wouldn't be looking at a freighter canoe.

However, if I had the money to do over, I would buy a Scott James Bay (about $6,300 for the bare hull), which is a tad larger than the Hudson Bay:

James Bay Specifications

Length 22'8" / 6.91 m
Gunwale Width 66" / 1.67 cm
Transom Width 44" / 1.12 cm
4" Waterline Width 45" / 1.14 cm
Depth at Centre 25" / 64 cm
Bow Height 39" / 1 m
Stern Height 23" / 58 cm
Rocker Moderate
Hull Shape Flat
Straight Sides
Keel Triple
Optimum Capacity 3590 lb / 1628 kg
Weight: Fiberglass 450 lb / 204 kg (I think this boat is heavier -- may be a misprint at the Scott website)

That extra 20 inches in length and 10 inches in width would have allowed for better ergonomic design of the fore and aft bench seats, thus a little more lounging comfort, and permitted some of the cooking stuff to remain in place for the night (as in any small boat, the endless shifting of gear around to get at other gear is a pain, so anything you can do to lessen that effort is amazingly welcome). To easily make 7 to 10 mph in a James Bay, I think a 9.9hp would do, though a 15hp wouldn't hurt. The larger boat wouldn't require a bigger tow vehicle, and no more expense to fit it out.

If you want two people to lounge, sleep, cook, and go to the loo aboard a freighter canoe, in comfort, and weathertight from rain, wind, sun, and mosquitos, my experienced opinion is that a 22 to 24 footer is just right. Any smaller and you will experience some regrets about the size of the boat, and any larger you probably would be better off in some other kind of boat.

The Hudson Bay 21 is a great boat for single person river camper, and OK for two, but not ideal. We also frequently entertain our friends on our boat with an evening dinner cruise for four. The Hudson Bay is marginally OK for that. The James Bay would be perfect for two on a cruise, and real sweet for a picnic cruise for four. Or you could build and adapt one of Tim Marchetti's designs; he tells me he is indeed working on his 24 footer.

My opinion, by the way, is based on the conditions to which I am accustomed to: the NY State Barge Canal (Erie and Champlain and tributary canals), slow rivers like the Hudson and Connecticut, and big lakes. If you are up in the Yukon or other areas that you have to negotiate white water or make portages, I don't have a lot to offer. See hunting and fishing forums about freighter canoes.

On the other hand, if you want to cruise waters similar to those my wife and I do, if you are used to tent camping and like it, if you want a capable boat that won't cost a fortune to buy and fit out and that will be extremely economical and easy to maintain and safe to operate, a river camper conversion of a freighter canoe might be a good bet. I'll be happy to share all I know with anyone who wants to give one a go.

By the way, for those of you close to northern New England, call Barry Davis at Two Rivers Canoe and Tackle at 207-746-8181 or at
bigcanoe@midmaine.com. He can tell you all about the 40 or so freighters he sells each year. And there are other dealers on the Scott website:

http://scottcanoe.com/


Bing

[Bing]

I took a look at the Clipper Canoe website. Great boats. However, you'll notice that the big canoes have a very narrow beam; they don't get to 60 inches wide until they are 34 ft long. The Scott HB 21 is 52 inches wide and the Scott JB 23 is 66 inches, for comparison. If you wanted to make one of those big Clippers a sleep-cook-potty-lounge aboard with a canvas tent, I think the cost for what you'd end up would be excessive for only maginal additional capacity as compared to a standard and beamier 21 to 24 foot freighter. But I think that big sweep up bow would look dramatically swell on a river camper.

By the way, I made a mistake earlier. The Scott HB 21 is 250 lbs bare boat and the Scott James Bay is indeed 450 lbs.

[canuckjgc]

Sorry about adding this old thread, but I am wondering if the Hudson Bay is suitable for 2 adults, 2 kids in protected ocean inlets and big lakes. I am in Canada and can buy and ship one for a reasonable price, but impossible to try it first.

How would it compare to say a 16' Lund?

[Bing]

Hi canuckjgc,

By Lund, I assume you mean their line of aluminum and fiberglass sport fishing boats. It depends on what you want to do with your boat as to whether a wide, short fishing boat is better for you than a long narrow motor canoe. If you want to do river camping similar to what my wife and I have been doing, you can use either boat, but the freighter canoe will have much better fuel economy. Lunds are all planing hulls, so you'll need to hang a lot more horse power over the transom; they would be terrible going slow for any distance. Motor canoes are more suited for slow speed, quieter, enjoy the scenery kind of cruises. While you can easily power up a Hudson Bay to get on plane, it's a hull that works, in my opinion, better at displacement speeds. For the same capacity in weight and volume, I think the Hudson Bay would be much cheaper to buy, outfit, and operate for your family, and would be a good way to go, unless you wanted hi speed and didn't care about the cost of fuel. For your neck of the woods, I would check out some of the hunting and fishing forums for Canada, searching for "freighter canoe." The guides up there are better versed in commerical, utilitarian uses for the Hudson Bay, and will amaze you with some of thier bang it up and beat it up stories of these boats in the Canadian back country. If you decide you want a river camper, send me a personal message and I can advise you on a few points to consider.

Bing

[canuckjgc]

Thanks very helpful. I was considering a 16' aluminum Lund skiff with a 40hp. I'm wondering how the two compare with regard to seaworthiness and sea handling?

My assumption is that the greater beam of the Lund (72") and the deeper V means it wins on both fronts, but I'm not exactly sure.

I do like the lower hp requirements of the HB as well as the shallow draft for beaching. I'm also assuming a beach launch is possible with a heavy duty cart, whereas the Lund requires a boat launch given the hull and outboard weight.

We like to explore, beach, camp and fish in protected ocean inlets and large lakes. Though careful with the weather we could be caught in a 3' chop so I want the safest skiff for those conditions.

Is the HB stable enough for kids and adults to walk around when it is not full of gear? I understand stability increases with a load but we won't necessarily have that much gear every time out.

[BATAAN]

This is the most sensible, practical, fun boat I've seen on this site in a long time. Congratulations on getting "it" right. It being the right boat for you.

[Easy Rider]

We have a 16' Crestliner that is wider, heavier, deeper and w more deadrise than the lunds. It's welded too. Great for beaching but way too heavy to push any distance to the water. Good to very seaworthy though. If your'e going to trailer the Crestliner would probably be better. By the way the best boat camping book I've ever seen is ...Boat Camping Haida Gwaii by Neil Frazer.

Easy Rider

[Bing]

canuckjgc

I can't give you advice on what might be a good boat for your purpose, but I can give some input on what a freighter canoe can and can't do. Freighters are not "walking around" boats. Despite the freighter's size, you can't have children frolicking around like you might on a wide fishing boat or pontoon boat. Though the boat won't likely tip over, you may toss a kid out when the boat rolls the other way. You will want everyone in a seat and staying put. And you won't "cart" one to the water by hand. You need a trailer like any other boat, as the fully loaded with motor and fuel weight will be somewhere between 500 and 1000 pounds, depending on what you are up to. About a year ago a fellow wrote a nice article for Messing About in Boats about his experiences with island camping in a freighter off the coast of the Pacific Northwest, and he seemed to be fine with rough chop. I've had a wild ride on Lake Champlain in those conditions, but it wasn't fun with mother aboard (the four kids and I had a blast though).

Best of luck to you on your search for your boat.

Bing

[canuckjgc]

Thanks very helpful indeed.

[patu]

I would like to contact Bing looking for more information on his 21' scott hudson bay freighter

[Wavewacker]

Might click on his avatar or name and send a pm. Guys here are of great help and I like to reread this thread just to keep me out of trouble.....have a great one!

[patu]

Hi Thank you
bing has already contacted me and is sending me more pictures of his udson Bay

[khclark04]

Spectacular! I have been casting about for freighter plans for some time now. It has been near fifteen years I have had the itch to build a canoe. Many years of experience in the BWCA. Now, however, both shoulders have had reconstructive surgery. No more portages, and only about an hour of paddling at a time.
FRIEGHTER TIME!
Initially the idea was Gil Gilpatrick stripper. Now I would love to find a plywood design for this boat. You say it is a Scott Hudson Bay 21? Do you have plans for this boat? Does anyone have plans for this boat in plywood?
I sure would love the help in getting back on the water.

[patu]

Hi
I am sorry to inform you that there are no plans on how to construct a Scott Hudson bay freighter from plywood I work for Scott Canoe and we build it from fiberglass from mold
pat

[BATAAN]

Pygmy Boats, Port Townsend. Nice easy to build kit with everything included.

[srimes]

There's the "Lutra Laker," a 17.5' design in plywood.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/laker/index.htm


I haven't seen any other plans for freighter canoes in plywood, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Don't know what it would cost to have someone draw some up for you, but if they already have a similer design it may not be too much.

[Wavewacker]

How would you obtain the bends in sheet plywood for the bow and troumble (sp) shaped sides without bulkheads crossing the interior? In narrow strips?

I'm still at it, but the bike may be left at home which really changes the whole aspect of my anticipated journeys.

I don't want to get off topic from your freighter Bing, but would like your thoughts and others, on a bolger sharpie formed at the freighter deminsions. There is a box keel Bolger used on large sharpies and was wondering if the canoe bow could be somewhat adopted by a box keel carried forward of the sharpie bow? Hope that makes sence. That would be an easier build I think with sheet goods. The keel would blend in to the flat bottom and not be carried all the back. Maybe as a deadwood sort of form. Ideas?

While just buying a freighter is the quick way, that still isn't cheap and I'm thinking of about 26'. I've been looking at the Bolger designs and they seem to be more adapted to my limited building skills.


Edited: Just returned from a small boat thread and looks like what I was talking about has been done it's an "Eagle 4.6" just not as long as the freighter or what I would like. Still wondering about the box keel idea???