Can Aluminum be painted?

[jdworld]

Can aluminum be painted? I know it can be anodized, but can it be painted - ie like a car? (For instance, on a hull to be used only in freshwater)

[Landlubber]

Yes it can (get it can....see Coca Cola for instance).

The trick is to get a really good primer onto it, I prefer the alloy to be anodised fiirst if this is at all possible.

We used to use zinc cromate for the primer, but it appears to have gone with the do gooders up the creek.

Altex Devoe make superb alloy paints and primers, so I would suggest that you examine thier website.

The epoxy based primers make great substrates for two pack linear polyuretnane finishes if you are looking for maximum gloss and long life.

I painted a dive boat and it was sold ten years later, the new owner asked if we painted it to sell it, so you can do a good job if you wish to.

[messabout]

Various primers, available at automotive paint supply stores, sometimes have a phosphoric acid component that is very effective. My company has been painting aluminum measuring instruments for 25 years. No problem with the right primers.

[Joe Petrich]

Acid etch (Alodyne is one), prime, then topcoat.

[Ike]

To paint aluminum is tedious and must be done in a painstakingly careful way. Alum has a natural oxide on it that protects it from corrosion. It is transparent, you can't see it but it is there. For paint to stick you must remove the oxide by etching and them paint with a good aluminum primer and then with a good paint that will last. Other wise the paint will not stick to the aluminum and in no time at all it will look like crap.

Here is something I wrote on this a few years back:
Aluminum Boats and Tanks: To Paint Or Not To Paint?
I am frequently asked: Should I paint my aluminum fuel tank? What do I use to paint it?
How do I do it? These questions also relate to painting aluminum boats. How do I paint
my aluminum boat? I see that question on many boating forums. The answer is not that
simple. Aluminum tanks and boats have the same qualities and so require the same
procedures for painting.
Aluminum used in boats and tanks has to be tough and durable and also be able to take a
dent without breaking. The grade of aluminum used in the marine environments is
usually in the 5000 and 6000 series. Tanks should be 5052, 5083 or 5086. The reason,
without getting into chemistry and metallurgy, is that these aluminum series are very
corrosion resistant and least affected by salt water and other corrosives found in the
marine environment. At the same time they have the strength and elasticity for use on
boats.
Aluminum is one of the best metals for marine use. Bare aluminum forms an aluminum
oxide coating on its surface that creates a barrier and prevents the metal from corroding.
Wipe away the oxide, or even scratch it and the metal will begin to corrode. However,
the aluminum oxide coating is self-repairing. If the metal is kept clean and dry the oxide
will reform and again protect the metal. For this reason aluminum tanks and boats are
generally not painted. In fact aluminum tanks are almost never painted. It is best to leave
tanks bare. Tanks are usually out of the weather in a protected compartment, and
painting the tank will not give it any more protection than not painting it. The process for
painting aluminum is so complex that painting a fuel tank is simply not worth the trouble.
On the other hand, aluminum boats can become rather shabby looking after years of use
so owners often want to paint them and spruce them up. Some boat manufacturers paint
their aluminum boats to make them more attractive and stylish. When done by a
professional in the factory these finishes can last for many years. But if not applied
correctly the paint will soon begin to chip and peel and look worse than the bare
aluminum. So, people who want to do it themselves, or have a boat painted by a
professional shop, need to know just what process needs to be used to get a quality,
lasting finish that will look good and last for many years.
It comes back to the oxide coating. Most paint simply will not adhere to aluminum
because of the oxide coating. So the metal must be prepared to accept paint. This
involves five steps.
These are not necessarily in order.
1. Cleaning and removing dirt, paint, oils, grease, and anything else on the metal.
2. Chemically removing the oxide.
3. Priming the surface with a coating that will accept the paint
4. Several rinses with fresh water
5. Painting with a compatible paint.
I am not going to go into this in detail because I am not an expert on painting metal
surfaces. But there are many web sites that explain it well enough for the DIY boat owner
to do it.
The Metal Boat Society: Preparing Aluminum For Coating:
http://www.metalboatsociety.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2193&highlight=painting+alu
minum
The Metal Boat Society: Paint for Aluminum Boat:
http://www.metalboatsociety.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=362&highlight=painting+alum
inum
Expert Witness: Painting Aluminum http://www.ronjoseph.com/painting-aluminum.htm
Expert Witness: Painting Aluminum Aircraft, Outboard Motors, Decks, Houses, Etc.
http://www.ronjoseph.com/Q&A/B2001_painting_aluminum.htm
Michael Kasten: Aluminum For Boats: http://www.kastenmarine.com/aluminum.htm
World Fishing Network-Dean Franklin: Painting Aluminum Boat Hull:
http://www.wfn.tv/asktheexperts/BoatExpert/question7.html
Finishing.Com : Painting Aluminum: http://www.finishing.com/1200-1399/1318.shtml
Paintings and Coatings Resource Center: http://www.paintcenter.org/rj/sep03i.cfm
Iboats.com Painting Aluminum:
http://www.allboating.com/boat_paint/#painting_aluminum
Federal MIL spec on Painting Aluminum MIL-DTL-5541F Chemical Conversion
Coatings on Aluminum and Aluminum Alloys.
http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/FEDMIL/dtl5541f.pdf http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/aluminum.pdf

[jdworld]

"Alum has a natural oxide on it that protects it from corrosion. It is transparent, you can't see it but it is there. For paint to stick you must remove the oxide by etching and them paint with a good aluminum primer and then with a good paint that will last. "

All good to know.....and I'm encouraged that it IS in fact possible. But one question, if you etch off the oxide which protects from corrosion just to add back the semi-protection of paint......aren't you left with something that will corrode under the paint and in places where the paint gets scratched off ie like steel? Or does the oxide re-form in those places and protect the aluminum?

[Ike]

As they say AHA! The point of the oxide is to exclude oxygen. This prevents oxidation (corrosion) The point of the paint is to make it look pretty, but to keep it looking pretty you also have to exclude the oxygen. Otherwise you are right, it corrodes under the paint. That is why you see on painted aluminum those flaky bubbly areas, that when you scrape them away reveal a white powder, aluminum oxide. If you nick or ding your paint you have to restore it right away.

So if you don't do it right, in a short while you have a crappy looking aluminum boat. That's why most aluminum boats are bare.

[CDK]

Aluminium and Magnesium react with oxygen immediately, so removing the oxide is possible only in an inert environment. Because of that property alu con only be welded under a liquid salt or protective gas.

Etching creates a rough surface for a stronger mechanical bond and removes contamination, after rinsing the oxide layer is back in place.

The white stuff under a blister is not aluminium oxide but a salt complex mixture containing Na, Al, O and Cl. It is only formed under a skin that prohibits formation of Al2O3 through lack of oxygen.

[jdworld]

ok, so in plain english, if you have a nice shiny painted alu hull, and you scrape a rock while beaching it, it that scrape going to "rust out" at the same pace as an identical steel hull in identical conditions?

[jonr]

No, it will just oxidize and thereby protect itself from further corrosion.

[BMcF]

We have had very good results with an epoxy strontium chromate primer for aluminum from Pro Line (owned by Sherwin Williams if I'm not mistaken). But..to get the results we do, we acid etch the entire area to be primed and prime as soon as possible after that. So its a royal PITA for larger hulls to deal with th acid etching part of the problem with proper respect for the environment.

Done correctly..the Pro Line stuff holds up very well. Some blistering of the topcats will be seen only locally around stainless hardware or fasteners and that will appear within 4 to 5 years and can be spot-repaired if necessary.

[jonr]

You can also anodize (smaller pieces) and then dye and clear coat the anodized layer. Can create a very nice non-paint look.

[kmorin]

jdworld,
one step in the process that hasn't been stressed- to its level of importance- is the removal of aluminum oxide and substitution of another metallic oxide: CONVERSION. This is done to hold the primer on one side while bonding to the aluminum on the other.

Chromium oxide is a good substitution for aluminum oxide and aluminum is 'converted' to this oxide by washing/rinsing/immersing the alloy in an acid that will remove the aluminum oxide.

The acid -hydroflouric acid, most commonly- is not very user friendly and is toxic. But it cleans aluminum of its naturally occurring oxide very well. To remove the acid you rinse the metal with flowing fresh water and keep the water on the metal to seal it from the air - if air gets to the aluminum it will oxidize again and you'd have to repeat the acid etch.

Then, while the metal is wet - flood/spray/dip the metal in Allodyne or another brand name of chromate solution to provide the 'pure'/unoxidized aluminum molecules with a chrome based molecule that will also be the new 'oxidizing' agent. This will form a chrome and oxygen [and] aluminum layer that will hold paint well and keep the underlying aluminum from contact with corrosives.

This method is sort of a poor-boy anodizing and results in a surface that will hold primer much better than aluminum oxide - its called conversion because one metal oxide is converted to another metal oxide.

If any area of the parent metal is not converted to the chrome oxide it will show a color change from the surrounding areas which are most often golden or greenish - the unconverted areas are blue.

This coating, once dry can be painted with good results. Some primers [claim to??] perform this conversion without the acid etch/rinse/chromate flooding steps. I've used this critical step in painting aluminum boats since 1978 with good results, not that we've painted every boat built, but this was the method used to paint all that did get coated.

A large boat can be painted by spraying acid, leaving it to foam and lift the oxide, then rinsing continuously with a water hose keeping the surface wet and then spraying Allodyne on the wet surface. If this is done in 3-4' wide strips up the hull, keel to cabin, with a slight overlap of acid used to carefully lift the dried edge of the chrome oxide area adjacent- then the entire boat can be done in manageable areas of work. Keeping the entire boat coated or wet in the rinse cycle isn't realistic without immersion tanks.

This method won't work in the slightest breeze- if acid overspray spots the converted areas -that area has to be redone or the paint job will fail at those spots.

Painting aluminum boats is a pain in the stern. It requires full rain suits- boots and all- with double gloves to handle the acid, Allodyne is toxic and can't be released-let alone inhaled-so you should work on a plastic pond liner under the boat and EVERYone should have a half face rubber sealing air purifying respirator not some silly suicide mask made of paper. If you can't muster the Personal Protective Equipment it would be better to skip the whole process rather than take the risks to all involved from chemicals required to do the work correctly.

I also require everyone to have splash goggles as well as a face shield since if acid gets on the face with ordinary safety glasses it can run down the forehead behind the glasses and get into the eyes- this stuff [aluminum cleaning acid] is not casual and should be treated with respect- bordering on fear.

To clarify one of Ike's points about aluminum tanks

If the tank is in a free air circulating bilge area, without bilge water or deck leaks or even condensation -and the tops are sloped enough to drain -then painting is optional. But if the tank is bedded in foam [poor practice but regularly done], under a plank deck that may leak, or can be wetted by the bilge water - then painting to the primer stage is very good practice.

The question is; will the surfaces of the tanks be allowed to dry out and can the self-healing aluminum oxide stay intact? If so, then paint is optional and not required. If not, if there will be any lack of air, constant wetted surfaces or any bilge water slop then the paint will help the aluminum to maintain without as much possibility of corrosion due to some agent attacking the aluminum oxide.

cheers,
Kevin Morin

[BMcF]

This coating, once dry can be painted with good results. Some primers [claim to??] perform this conversion without the acid etch/rinse/chromate flooding steps.

Very good summary and advice!. I did not elaborate much in my post..but it is hydroflouric acid to which I was referring to when I mentioned the acid wash part. Nasty stuff indeed.

Chromate conversion (alodyne, brand name, but now in common useage for the 5541 process regardless) is a superb way to go..probably the best overall IMO. We do use that for all 'small parts' but it's pretty expensive for an entire hull ...about $65/gallon from Dupont recently.

That said, the ProLine strontium chromate does react and convert the aluminum IF the ambient air temp is right, humidity is low, and we manage to spray the primer immediately after the aluminum dries enough after the acid wash.

We even use test panels (acid washed and painted at the same time) to see how well we did; strip the epoxy paint off with regular paint stripper about 3-5 days later...if the process 'worked' the aluminum will look exactly as alodyned aluminum does with a nice golden sheen, If we were tardy with the spray application, not agresseive enough with acid, etc etc...removing the epoxy reveals..plain ole bare aluminum.:rolleyes:

We are getting ready to redo a 32' Marinette, entire bottom to the boot stripe. Yuk.;)

[Brent Swain]

A friend, who builds aluminium boats, said his etch primer was softer than the epoxy over it, so it chipped easily where the etch primer was. It stuck far better where it had been lightly sandblasted. He said the only really reliable way to get paint to stick to aluminium was to sandblast it. Etching is a disaster on steel, as the acid keeps working under the paint, causing huge and ongoing corrosion problems . I've seen no exceptions in the last 38 years .
In the tropics , if you don't paint aluminium white , it will get hot enough in the sun to fry eggs on, and will burn the soles off your feet. I had to paint the inside of my aluminium dinghy to stop it from burning my feet.

[u4ea32]

Its been a long time -- 35 years now. But way back then, I was sailing master on an aluminum maxi ketch, built at Abeking and Rassmussen. When the second owner bought the boat, there were several places where the paint was bubbling above the waterline, and pitting below the waterline. We got a big crew of guys to hand sand all these places, and we applied zinc chromate (I think -- it was yellow) primer that was specifically for aluminum. Then lightly sanded the yellow to make it smooth, and then painted over with bottom paint or topside paint (not 2 part, I think it was just enamel, like car paint). We applied all the primer and paint with brushes. Worked great. Very high gloss topsides. Easy to spot repair. We used no acid or alodyne.

[CDN-CUCV]

I wonder if a prepping the aluminum with chromium oxide prior to welding would expedite the process? Then a post-treatment of the welded joints?

Any thoughts?

[Ike]

When I was on a CG ship that had aluminum superstructue we first removed all the paint (wire brush, sanding etc.) then clean it with plain old soap and water. Then we applied an etching solution we called Blue Death. I have no idea what was in it but we used rubber gloves. You didn't want to get it on your skin. Then we applied zinc chromate (it was a nice yellow) and then painted.


I don't know if chromium oxide would work. Any aluminum guys out there?

I found this on a page about prepping aluminum "IN PROCESSING ALUMINUM, OXIDES AND SMUTS REQUIRE AN ACID DEOXIDIZING
BATH THAT WILL COMPLETELY REMOVE THESE SOILS." http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/current/05catpg468.pdf Of course keep in mind they are trying to sell their product. But I think they are right. Something is required to remove any dirt, oils or any other contaminants.

[kmorin]

Ike,
the yellow stuff was a chrome solution on the acid 'blue' that cleaned the aluminum oxide and then allowed the zinc chromate solution to substitute chrome in the oxide formation on the cleaned or 'deoxidized' aluminum.

In other words: Your experience is exactly as posted above- but you may not have looked closely at the chemical contents and bonds formed- but they're set out in this topic.

etch; convert to chromium oxide while wet; let dry; add primer; then topcoats = painting aluminum.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

[Ike]

Thanks Kevin. I might also add it's clouded by almost over thirty years. It was a long time ago . Senior moments get more frequent. LOL

[Bigfoot1]

look on the Interlux or awlgrip website and down load the paint instructions.
Awlgrip is good, pricey, Interlux is as good, still expensive but will last

[CDN-CUCV]

I like the Awlgrip paint, can't beat the finish, but like you said, pricey. We sprayed it at Canoe Cove when I was there years ago.

[espresso]

Hi,
If I had to blast my 5083 Aluminium hull with garnet, and then within say 20 minutes wash it off with Alodyne, would this be O.K.?
Basically, how long before the Aluminium Oxide film starts to re-form?

[CDK]

Hi,

Basically, how long before the Aluminium Oxide film starts to re-form?

The oxide layer starts forming immediately when air is present. That is the very reason why you cannot solder it, no matter how short the time is between sanding or brushing and the attempt to solder.

[Bigfoot1]

Re blasting aluminum,
I would stay away from blasting aluminum unless that it is very thick plate, 1/4 inch or larger. It is not necessary as the oxide that forms on aluminum is thin. Ie you are not trying to remove mill scale.
We have built many aluminum boats over the years and we would sand it, then use an acid etch prep, then prime it. As per the paint manufacturers recommendation.
Also, if you sand blast thin sheet, you can actually warp the sheet.

The easiest thing is to just follow the paint manufacturers processes
It would go something like this
wipe the boat with an solvent, ( by solvent, something like laquer thinner, toluene, of course these products need to be handled safely, I mean a product that dissolves oil as compared to a diluent that just thins the oil, like varsol,wd 40 etc) Many paint manufactureres use a water base oil wash
Then use a wash like alodine
then an acid etch primer,
then the surface coats


To CDK
Yes you can solder aluminum, but not with ordinary solder.
Sand the material, use a flux to cover then solder.
At a material show many years ago, there was a person doing this and
until that time, I also did not know that you could do it.
I have seen an experienced welder oxyacetylene weld aluminum though with the aluminum oxide melting at a higher temp than the aluminum substrate, it was tricky. He used a carburizing flame, ie blacker flame, ie a flame short of oxygen, and would wipe the aluminum wire into the joint. This was make shift as he did not have tig or mig aluminum capability on hand. Similar to oxy welding lead.

[CDK]

Yes Bigfoot1, in an inert atmosphere you can both solder and weld.

Although...... I Have a small jar with a skull and bones printed on the lid and the text that it contains a flux for soldering aluminum. Bought it at a show many years ago, but never succeeded in soldering a wire to an aluminum heat sink.
And at the time I saw the guy do just that!

[WickedGood]

JD World

How big is your boat?

I bought 4 gallons of Tri Lux for my 44 ft Winninghoff and only used 3 and 1/4 gallons. I sold the boat and dont need the Alum paint anymore.

It is around $240 per Gallon at Hamiltons in Portland, Maine

Im right down the road in Saco, Maine and could sell you the 3/4 Gallon for $100 Cash


The Paint is Blue. Like it should be.


Capt Walt

WickedGoodOutdoors@Maine.rr.com


PS: What do you want to Solder to Alum? You can make a paste of Borax to braze.

I also have a TIG Welder and maybe could do a small job for you if you buy the flux wire & Gas.

[alidesigner]

For simple alloy repairs this stuff looks good. I havent used it so cant say how good it really is but have seen a similar product demo'd at a car show and have just ordered some to repair an alloy bonnet on a car I am restoring.

http://tinyurl.com/alloywelding

[keysdisease]

Can aluminum be painted? I know it can be anodized, but can it be painted - ie like a car? (For instance, on a hull to be used only in freshwater)

Yes,

Choose a well regarded marine paint manufacturer and follow their directions for painting aluminum.

Anything else you do at your own risk for failure, and a failed paint job is a nightmare to fix.

Steve

[WickedGood]

[QUOTE=WickedGood;421836]JD World

How big is your boat?

I bought 4 gallons of Tri Lux for my 44 ft Winninghoff and only used 3 and 1/4 gallons. I sold the boat and dont need the Alum paint anymore.

It is around $240 per Gallon at Hamiltons in Portland, Maine

Im right down the road in Saco, Maine and could sell you the 3/4 Gallon for $100 Cash


The Paint is Blue. Like it should be.


Capt Walt

WickedGoodOutdoors@Maine.rr.com

[thill]

Interestingly, I once bought a jon boat that had terribly blistered paint. I scraped all the bubbles, and sanded the spots clean.

Then I rolled on a coat of Home Depot's Behr deck paint with a hotdog roller.

Amazingly, I just sold the boat 5 years later, and the paint still looked just like it had just been done!

This boat was used in salt water, but I DID rinse it after every use. I think in an all-salt environment, it would have corroded, but it worke GREAT.

This is NOT for professional-level work, but might help some guy who just wants to paint his jon.

-TH