Design standards required by law

[jdworld]

This is way off topic, but something i have been trying to find out recently for a something I am working on. Specifically, who requires things in boat design? What is the governing body, and where can I find their requirements? In researching around it looks like the main governing body seems to be the ABYC. HOWEVER, it seems that although they have lots of "standards" that they lay out, I have read that they are really only voluntary standards, not required by law. So where might I go to find out what IS required by law in boat design? Does a boat mfgr have to get the equivalent of a "building permit" for a new boat design? For cars, it's probably the National Transporation Safety Board. For airplanes it's the FAA. Who is it for boats? The Coast Guard?

[apex1]

DNV, LLoyds, German LLoyd, BV are providing the "standards" for small boats. ABS does´nt.

There are no building permits or something equivalent. Not in car or airplane manufacturing also! But the products have to be approved. (which in consequence can mean having "certified" staff)
But in general every one armed monkey can setup a boatyard.:cool:

Regards
Richard

[Fanie]

Richard is right. Any one can build basically any thing. The onus is on you to do it so that it will be acceptable to use for it's purpose and it doesn't pose any kind of threat or hazard. That said, quite a few out there just breathing poses a huge threat and hazard :rolleyes: but let's not go there :D

I think the general 'rule' of what is sensable to use is to look at what others did before you. If that can be improved on and calculations concur then let rip. Always a good idea to let a pro check things through for you, just in case one misses the obvious.

[terhohalme]

jdworld, is this for you?

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/education_safety/safety/boatwater/backyardboatbuilders.pdf

or this

http://www.eagle.org/eagleExternalPortalWEB/appmanager/absEagle/absEagleDesktop?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=abs_eagle_portal_marine_rules_guides_download_page

Look at pub# 37 and 62.

Somehow ABS looks like DNV, LLoyds, GL and BV. There are standards outside Europe too.

Richard, isn't the world a beatifull place to learn new thinks?

[apex1]

Well, it is...............
ABS Guide for Offshore Yachts, approval for yachts under 24 metres withdrawn some years ago!..................

[pamarine]

For Manufacturers selling boats in the USA, the USCG is the governing body and sets all the standards for design and contstruction. You are partially correct when you say ABYC Recommendations are voluntary. Several of the ABYS chapters are now referenced in the USCG Regulations, and therefore have become law.

A reference for small-boat manufacturers can be found at http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boat_builders_handbook_and_regulations.aspx

The complete list of the applicable regulations to the design and construction of boats can be found at http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/federal_regulations.aspx

That being said, anybody can build a boat as long as they intend to use it only for personal use. It is still advisable to follow industry standards and the USCG has several resources available to backyard builders.

[pamarine]

DNV, LLoyds, German LLoyd, BV are providing the "standards" for small boats. ABS does´nt.

There are no building permits or something equivalent. Not in car or airplane manufacturing also! But the products have to be approved. (which in consequence can mean having "certified" staff)
But in general every one armed monkey can setup a boatyard.:cool:

Regards
Richard

Actually, for production aircraft (aircraft that at least 50% are built in a factory by someone other than the end user), the FAA issues a Production Certificate along with a Type Certificate after extensive testing of each new design. Without these two certificates, it is illegal to manufacture aircraft intended for sale or registration in the US. As stated, this does not apply to ultralights or homebuilts (51% must be built by the owner)

[Kay9]

In the US the rules are covered under the Code Of Federal Regulations. Everything from MARPOl to EPA you simply have to do a search on "CFR Shipbuilding"

K9

[apex1]

Pamarine
you´ll find that I already pointed towards "certified staff" which of course can include almost all staff.

K9
that does´nt apply here.

[Kay9]

I didnt say it applied in Germany. I said in the US the rules of shipbuilding are covered in excrusiating detail in the Code of Federal Regulations. If you are building a ship/boat/airplane/truck/car/motorcycle the "governing body" in the US is in the CFR as per jdworlds request when he asked and I quote:

"What is the governing body, and where can I find their requirements? In researching around it looks like the main governing body seems to be the ABYC."

K9

[pamarine]

Pamarine
you´ll find that I already pointed towards "certified staff" which of course can include almost all staff.

K9
that does´nt apply here.

The staff doesn't have to be certified in anything, unless the manufacturer requires it. The Aircraft design is what is being deemed airworthy. Airworthiness standards are found in 14 CFR parts 21 through 39

[apex1]

Jaja,

no certified staff, hmm.
uncertified ally welders, uncertified cfk laminators, no masters, just monkeys.

I think we are (as usual) talking completely different worlds here.

The question was "boat design" and "building permit"

The answer is: NO you do´nt need. period

[pamarine]

Jaja,

no certified staff, hmm.
uncertified ally welders, uncertified cfk laminators, no masters, just monkeys.

I think we are (as usual) talking completely different worlds here.

The question was "boat design" and "building permit"

The answer is: NO you do´nt need. period

The question was "'Governing Body for Boat Design and Construction." And yes, the boat does have to meet certain requirements under the law, period.

[wardd]

it used to be and may still be that once type certification was approved then the manufacturer certified each airplane as complying unless its for the military

[dockdave]

No permit recquired in my backyard

[dskira]

Under 60' without paying guest, you can do what you whant her in the US.
You have to follow rules (USCG) if you put a gas engine, beside that you are in your own.
Self responsability still exist thanks God. For how long? depend of the peoples.
Cheers
Daniel

[pamarine]

it used to be and may still be that once type certification was approved then the manufacturer certified each airplane as complying unless its for the military

yes, to an extent. the Feds have a habit of popping in to production faclities periodically to ensure ongoing compliance with the Type and Production Certificates.

[pamarine]

Under 60' without paying guest, you can do what you whant her in the US.
You have to follow rules (USCG) if you put a gas engine, beside that you are in your own.
Self responsability still exist thanks God. For how long? depend of the peoples.
Cheers
Daniel

Still have requirements for flotation (under 20'), nav lights, battery installation, exhaust systems, ventilation, internal compartments housing people, electrical systems, etc even under 60'.

[dskira]

Still have requirements for flotation (under 20'), nav lights, battery installation, exhaust systems, ventilation, internal compartments housing people, electrical systems, etc even under 60'.

You are rignt, for gas engine. For diesel it is let to recomendations, not law.
as for sail boat, as you know it is even more loose as long the engine is an auxiliary and diesel. Ads long of course the boat do not carry paying passengers.
As for the under 20' with outboard, or inboard gas engine you are absolutly right. And it is a good requirement. Sail boat are "free to go"!
But even if the boat as paying pasesengers, working with the USCG is very easy, interresting, and straightforward. As for the recomendations they are also good commun senses and easy to follow.
Cheers
Daniel

[gonzo]

ABYC has a self regulatory structure. Basically, the USCG has found that the standards are adequate so they leave them alone. They are not law. Some things are regulated by law and some have standards under CFR and ABYC. Sometimes you can choose which to follow. If the boats will carry passengers for hire, check the CFR for applicable regulations.

[pamarine]

You are rignt, for gas engine. For diesel it is let to recomendations, not law.
as for sail boat, as you know it is even more loose as long the engine is an auxiliary and diesel. Ads long of course the boat do not carry paying passengers.
As for the under 20' with outboard, or inboard gas engine you are absolutly right. And it is a good requirement. Sail boat are "free to go"!
But even if the boat as paying pasesengers, working with the USCG is very easy, interresting, and straightforward. As for the recomendations they are also good commun senses and easy to follow.
Cheers
Daniel

Are you talking about a home builder or a manufacturer (Company producing boats for the express intent to sell them)? I am referring to the regulations governing Manufacturers. No vessel is "free to go" from a manufacturing POV. Even a 7 foot canoe is required to have calculations done to ensure USCG basic floatation requirements are met.

As for a home-built craft, the intended use will determine which regulations need to be complied with.

So again, to answer the OP; The USCG regulates the design and manufacture of boats intended for sale in the US. Additional voluntary standards are published by groups such as the ABYC.

[gonzo]

The regulations are for boats regardless of who builds them. The USCG does not regulate the design and manufacture of boats, unless mandated by the legislature in some cases. The USCG does enforce the law. The regulations are in the CFR. You can read it for free online.

[pamarine]

The regulations are for boats regardless of who builds them. The USCG does not regulate the design and manufacture of boats, unless mandated by the legislature in some cases. The USCG does enforce the law. The regulations are in the CFR. You can read it for free online.

You are confusing legislation with regulations.

The laws passed by congress are codified in the United State Code. These are called Legislative Law.

The regulations decided on by the departments of the federal government are codified in the Code of Federal Regulations. These are called Administrative Law.

Basically, Congress will pass a broad law that assigns certain rights or areas to a Government agency. The respective Agency is then responsible for administering and enforcing the law as passed by congress. To this end, the agency will generally impose specific regulations to ensure total compliance with the Legislative Law. These regulations are created and decided on via the "Publid Rulemaking Process" which allows the citizenry of the country to make inputs on the proposed regulation to ensure fair application and best-practice compliance is achievable.

When talking about boats, the Agency tasked with regulating and enforcing these laws is the USCG. Most of the USCG's regulations, including enforcement actions, are codified in Title 33 of the Code of Federal Regulations. Specifically dealing with manufacture, the USCG regulations regarding design and construction of boats and there requisite systems generally apply only to boats being manufactured with the specific intent of selling them in the USA. In other words, a person making a vessel intended primarily for their own use (although they may sell it later with no legal penalty) are only subject to the regulations that detail design aspects (equipment) as a specific function of use (such as nav lights, horns, fire extinguishers, ect).

[David Cockey]

In the US and Canada road vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc) do not require review by a third part or government agency before they can be sold. It is the responsibility of the manufactuer that the vehicle meets all applicable regulations and standards. In the US, NHTSA (safety) and EPA (emissions) randomly test vehicles and the manufactuer has a definate problem if a vehicle is found not to meet the regulations and standards.

I believe small boats are essentially the same in North Americal. It's the builder's responsibility to meet the applicable requirements.

In some other countries road vehicles have to be certified by a government agency or authorized third part organization before they can be sold. I don't know what the situation is with boats.

Also, no certification or registration is required of the engineers and others who design road vehicles in North America. (This is a fundamentally difference with some other areas such as bridges where a registered engineer has to sign off on the design.)

[David Cockey]

"Monohull boats less than 20 feet in length except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats" have to meet the Safe Loading and Display of Capacity Information requirements. Nothing about an exemption if Diesel powered.

"Sailboats, canoes, kayaks, inflatable boats, submersibles, surface effect vessels, amphibious vessels, multi-hull boats and race-boats need not comply" with the floatation requirments. Other boats need to comply. Nothing about an exemption if Diesel powered.