old wooden boat

[urisvan]

hello,
i am looking around to buy a second hand boat that would not give me major troubles.
what do you think about an old woden boat?
this 1962 model long keel boat is a "Cheverton New Campaigner" and she is the old boat of Rod Heikell.
the owner claims that she had been refited in 1995.
i have ask for the detailed photos like deck to hull joint, stanchion bases, coachroof-deck joint; and interiors.
what do you say as a foreword?

regards
ulas

[apex1]

Looks like a serious sailor. And is in Turkey as it seems?

But too many masts for the length:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/materials/37459d1258498608-old-wooden-boat-big_18692517x5d.jpg






hähä:D

[PAR]

i am looking around to buy a second hand boat that would not give me major troubles

If this is truly the case, then the wise advise would be to stay away from half a century old, wooden boats for God's sake.

For my "forward" I'd ask how much rot and where is it. If he says "no rot" then walk away because he's lying.

[Steve W]

An old boat of any material could hardly be expected to not give you any trouble,how handy are you at woodworking? An old boat built out of ANY material is likely to need pretty much as much upkeep so it comes down to what you will be most comfortable working on.It needs to come out of the water and be VERY thouroughly inspected by someone who knows what to look for,if it looks good buy it.IT is a very handsome design btw and looks equipped.Steve.

[urisvan]

small problems are ok. but the bigger and expensive ones are boring, like replacement of the deck!!

cheers
ulas

[RHP]

A 50 year old wooden yacht in Turkey with the intense sun etc... I´d be surprised if it didnt have issues one way or the other.

Beautiful yacht though.

[apex1]

Do´nt htink she was in Turkey for long.
Looks like a boat owned by a seasoned sailor.
But I´m sure I´ll see her soon.

[urisvan]

i called the owner and listen the story of the boat from him. she was not always in Turkey. Rod Heikell had traveled with her and in 1996 she had been refitted by Rod in Turkey.

[urisvan]

after that refit she sailed to indonesia and came back. Then Rod sold her to his crew; he lived in it for 8-9 years and afterwards, the last owner bought her 3 years ago.
Apex it would be very nice to arrange time and go to Marmaris to survey her.
but there is a big trouble that the owner doesn't reduce the price. he is asking 15000 euros and this exceeds my budget.

[apex1]

So, for what do you need me to go to Marmaris? Shoot the owner?

[urisvan]

:) ... if i can increase my budget.

[urisvan]

this is written after refit in 1997;

TETRANORA

Cheverton New Compaigner
Built 1962 by David Cheverton and partners, IOW, UK.
Rebuilt 1995 by Yat Lift including total refit.
LOA 31 GT (9.5 m) LWL (7.4 m) Breadth 9 ft (2,75 m) Draught 5’2’’ (1.60 m)

Tetranora is a classic yacht of this era built to the old 24ft LWL minimum for the RORC offshore rule. She is similar in this respect to Rustler 31, North Sea 24, or if you like, a stretched Twister. She has a full length keel and transom hung rudder although the forefoot has a lot of cut-away. She is quite beautiful to look at without an ungainly doghouse and classic proportions to the coachroof and the right amount of sheer for her length. She is not a slow boat some of the following will show:

Regattas
1985 1st in class Ionian Regatta, Greece
1992 2nd class Bodrum Cup, Turkey
1996 1st overall in classic class at the Kings Cup, Phuket, Thailand.

Ocean passages
Cochin, India to Mukalla, Yemen. 1700 NM sailed in 13½ days at a daily average of 126 NM per day.
Fastest days run (current assisted) 154 NM
Fastest days run (no current) 142 NM
She has consistently made fast passages with small crews (typically 2 people) and has for example me four consecutive days run of over 130 NM
She is a first class sea boat that has never at any time worried me in heavy weather. She has often made faster and easier passages in strong winds than other larger yachts and she is usually on autopilot or steers herself hard on the wind.

In 1994-1995 she was rebuilt and refitted under my direction at Yat Lift in Turkey, a first class yard with the requisite skill needed. She was equipped with much new equipment at this time and in fact the asking price is considerably less than the cost of the rebuild and refit.
She has featured in my books, and in numerous articles in Yachting World and practical Boat Owner. She is a well known and much loved boat by those who have read about her and friends who have sailed on her.

Construction
Hull Strip-planked in mahogany by Cheverton using Resourcinol glue. Rebuilt in 1995 using West System epoxy and sheathed with two layers of 10 oz cloth using West epoxy. Faired using West epoxy and micro-balloons and powder. Five coats of epoxy primer. Top coated with two pot poly. New covering board of mahogany also epoxied and two pot poly.
Keel removed and shot blasted 1995. Epoxy tar and primer. All new keel bolts 1995.
Cabin and decks Ply side decks and cabin top. One piece mahogany cabin sides. Rebuilt 1995 with repairs where necessary (part removal for installation of new chain plates) in ply and epoxy. Sheathed with 10oz cloth and West epoxy. Finished with international ‘sand’ deckpaint and two pot poly. New top opening anchor locker (self draining) constructed forward with watertight bulkhead in forepeak. Repainted 1997.

Deck
Pulpit/Pushpit: New pulpit in 316 s/s 1995. Old pushpit reinstalled. Fold-down swimming ladder on stern new 1995. All stanchions refurbished and refastened 1995.
Hatches: New main hatch and hatch garage laminated up using West epoxy 1995. New fore hatch (Houdini) 1995.
Windows: All cabin windows removed, bronze surrounds refurbished, new Perspex fitted, and all re-bedded and refastened.
Deck cleats: All deck cleats refurbished 1995. New 316 s/s fairleads custom made 1995.
Dorades: New plasticized 1995. New s/s vents aft 1995.
Jackstays: Two strap jackstays and s/s attachment points new 1995. Two s/s harness points 1995 in cockpit.

Anchor and warps
Bower anchor: 25 lb CQR with approximately 40 metres 8 mm chain all regalvanised 1995. Twin anchor rollers forward with chain pawillon the starboard roller all new 1995. Anchor and chain stows in forward (self-draining) locker.
Kedge: 15lb Danforth with 10 metres 6 mm chain all regalvanised 1995. 25 metres 14 mm terylene warp 1995.
Fisherman: 30 lb fisherman refalvanised 1995 on custom made mounth on pushpit.
Warps: Numerous warp including several 25 metre warps in nylon or terylene for lon lines ashore. Numerous shorter lines of varying lengths.
Fenders: Four large and two small with blue sunbrella covers 1995. These stow out of the way in the anchor locker forward.

Cockpit
Self draining cockpit refit 1995 with central hatch for engine access, removable tray (tools- winch handles, etc.) under forward step, all epoxied and painted 1995. Three cockpit lockers; Large under port side seat, small aft, small aft starboard where contains the fuel tank.
Self drainers: New fittings, new hose and new seacocks 1995.
Winches: Two original bronze winches approximately 7 in (17,5 cm)across. Bronze ratcheted handles. These are the original winches, probably earl Gibbs although there is no name on them. They are immensely powerful for the boat and cleaned and greased 1997.
Cleats: All new teak custom made 1995.
Mainsheet horse: 1995
Cabin main hatch: Laminated ply and retainers 1995.
Rudder: Repaired middle gudgeon with Thai hardwood and Jotun epoxy by Phuket Yacht Services end 1996.
Tiller: New laminated mahogany tiller 1995.
Jibs tracks: Removed furbished and replaced 1995

Mast and rigging
Mast Alloy spar. Removed and checked 1995. New masthead fitting in 316 1997 copied from the original. Deck mast-step removed and regalvanised 1995.
Chain plates: All chain plated removed and new chain plates made up in 316 s/s including new bow fitting. Installed and checked 1995.
Standing rigging: All s/s 1996. All checked over while mast was off 1995 and re-checked 1997. All bottle screws checked 1995. All bottle screws and cross-tree ends sheathed with heavy duty sued sewn on 1995. Rotostay installed 1995 is mantled and refurbished using Rotostay spares (all ball races, some extrusion swivel, furling line, etc.)
Boom: Removed and refurbished 1995. New track for sail foot installed 1995. Barton slab-reefing track and blocks. Small winch self jammers installed 1995 for slab-reefing.
Running rigging: New jib sheet and main sheet (all oversize multiplied terylene) 1998. New slab reefing lines 1990 and 1996. All running rigging in good condition.

Engine
Yanmar 2GSM 20 HP new 1988. New shaft 1988. New propeller 1990. New morse controls 1988. Engine thoroughly checked over 1995 including injectors, injector pump, cooling system, etc. New exhaust manifold and exhaust hose 1995. New vacuum releaser to prevent water siphoning in as engine cools 1995. Water intake seacock refurbished 1995. New Volvo hull seal (greaseless stuffing box) 1995. Fuel tank cleaned out 1996. 1997 oil filter, CAV filtre and inline fuel filter replaced. Injectors crack-tested. Pump impeller replaced.

Sails
Main: New main by Seagull Sails with Sobstad epoxy batten 1995. Chafe patches and all reff points, headboard, tack etc. Double reinforced. Three reefs with third reef used in effect as trysail. Valletted 1997.
Roller reefing genoa: New genoa by Seagull Sails 1995. Chafe patches for cross-trees etc.
Easy –stow system: Permanently attached easy-stow system on boom for stowin mainsail. In blue Sunbrella Seagull Sails 1995.
Other: Arun main and roller reefing genoa from 1984. Valleted and in serviceable condition. Genniker which is too small and was badly repaired in Sri Lanka usable but should be replaced. Original Ratsey and Lapthorn storm jib serviceable condition.

Canvas
Sprayhood: New 316 s/s frame and blue sunbrella sprayhood 1995. Central window fitted with zips so it can be rolled up to get any breath through the cockpit 1996.
Dodgers: New in blue sunbrella with name and port on the outside and covered pockets for stowage on the inside 1995.

Fuel and water
Fuel: Approx. 40 litres in starboard aft locker. All funnels siphon pumps etc.
Water: Two approx 80 litres tanks under saloon berths. Fillers on either side deck. New hoses, breathers and fillers 1995.

Galley
Port Side: Reconstructed 1995 to provide better stowage. It is very small by modern standards but works. Plastimo Coral cooker with two burners and grill new 1990. New gimbals for cooker in s/s 1995. Two 3 kg camping gas bottles. New hose and regulator 1995. Sink with footpump (Whale Gusher) and hand pump (Whale Flipper) Numerous lockers for storage. SL fire blanked. Crockery, cutlery, pots and pans.

Navigation area
Lifting navigation table stowage in tabel section.
Instruments: Garmin GPS 65 1995. (Aerial on mount aft)
Shoreline compact VHS 1995 (Aerial on masthead with combined Hawk wind indicator.) Plastimo Contest bulkhead compass 1995. Mounted on port side cockpit bulkhead. Autohelm Bidata depth and speed 1995 mounted on starboard side cockpid bulkhead. Incastec analogue echo sounder with cockpit digital repeater 1990.
Masthead tricolor navigation light and decklights on cross-trees. All checked and partially rewired 1995.
Switch panel, volt meter 1995.
Solar panel.
Autohelm 2000, autopilot new 1988 and refurbishd 1997 including new motor. Mounts at back of cockpit.


Rod Heikell

[apex1]

Well, yes! YOU increase your budget.
But be sure, she goes for a bit less when there is cash on the table, maybe 12.500.-
The owner is Turk?

Btw. who is Rod Heikell. ? Must one know him?

[RHP]

Sounds great. I wonder to what extent the copious use of epoxy and cloth has added to her weight?

[apex1]

Substantially Richard, that is sure.
And if she was in the wrong hands, that will be more or less the "to do" list again! We´re talking 15 years since!

[RHP]

Richard, take a look at this: http://www.tell-tales.info/rodheikell.htm

[apex1]

Link does´nt open. But thank you Richard! I looked up the name and found a author of sailing books.

Hmm, seems I was right to assume a seasoned sailor! Who has maststeps? Only the old salts. And look at the stern gear.

[PAR]

The fairytale preached by a loving owner (above) should be taken with a grain of salt or in this case the whole salt shaker.

No owner will give you a reliably honest assessment of the boats condition, mostly because they just don't have the skills, but also because they want to sell the thing they love.

Your original premise was can it be a yacht with minimum problems. I suggested (as well as others) any 50 year old yacht should be suspect.

You clearly have made up your mind to buy this boat, in spite of sound advise. Buying into the love song of a caring owner (or talented salesman) isn't wise. Have the boat accessed professionally, but frankly, if you want reasonably care free yachting, this isn't the boat for you, though the pictures do look nice.

[apex1]

Paul,
be sure he will not buy that boat without a thorough inspection. He did´nt with the other object too. (the firewood)

[PAR]

I'm just having trouble getting past the minimum bother requirement. A 20 year old 'glass production yacht in need of some upgrades can be had for a song and will likely not leave him wondering if the bilge pump can keep up, when he goes to sleep each night.

[urisvan]

http://www.yachtworks.info/index.html

repair is made by them. but i don't know them for 15 years.

[urisvan]

thanks PAR,
of course, i don't buy anything without a proper assessment.
did you mean fiberglass boat needs less care?

regards
ulas

[apex1]

He is offline Ulas.

Off course that is what he meant.

But if we can manage to get more info about this one (maybe I have one in Marmaris), it MAYBE worth a look.

And why a new thread on sheathing?

Regards
Richard

[PAR]

As far as dealing with a leaking, rotting wooden hulls, yes, 'glass hulls are less trouble as they age. This isn't to say you can't own an old wooden yacht, I have several, but I know what I'm in for.

Wooden boats can't tolerate neglect for very long and unfortunately, most folks neglect the crap out of their boats. They don't fix things until it falls off or doesn't work any more. Routine maintenance is a joke and 'glass boats can tolerate this treatment much better then wooden ones.

Of course much of yacht ownership has nothing to do with what the hull is made from. Systems also suffer from neglect, but not as much as anything wooden. One over riding factor in the last half of a century, has been the slow reduction of yacht care and maintenance. It's to the point now, where an owner shows up once or twice a year and expects the engine to start right up and the boat not to deteriorate. When they're new you can get away with this, but not with 50 year old wooden boats.

[Gilbert]

PAR,
You are certainly correct when you say that all wooden boats should be thoroughly inspected before purchasing them.
But I do hope you will back off just a bit from saying that if the owner of a 50 year old wooden boat says that his boat has no rot he is lying. A recent acquaintence of mine has an 82 year old wooden boat that is in outstanding condition and it is very close to all original; only a board or two has ever been replaced.
I also recall reading about a west coast tug that was built entirely of port orford cedar with the exception of the bulwark caps and guards. It was a vessel of about 100 feet loa. On its 100th birthday it was hauled and thoroughly inspected and the only thing they found to replace was three bulwark stanchions and a few bulwark planks. These were the first port orford cedar parts that had ever needed to be replaced. The haulout was in 1993 if I recall correctly.
So every once in a while........

[PAR]

Of course there are rare exceptions to every rule . . .

hello,
i am looking around to buy a second hand boat that would not give me major troubles.

. . . but I come back to this and wonder why anyone would consider a 50 year old yacht.

[Steve W]

Im glad to see that it is not a carvel planked boat,a strip planked ,glued hull if it was epoxy glass sheathed from new is as much a homogenous structure as a glass boat and just may be in good shape.I can sure see where Par is coming from but damn,i hope it passes survey,it is so much more handsome than pretty much any glass boat you will find within your budget,i keep going back to the photos and looking at the sheerline and the trunk cabin,very pretty.Its a good thing(for me) that its not in the US.I really like the 60s vintage english boats,any idea who the designer is,maybe kim hollman?
Steve.

[PAR]

Arthur Robb like if you ask me.

[apex1]

Right Steve,

being a strip planked boat she MIGHT have less issues than a classical woody. Unfortunately she is NOT built in epoxy and sheathed with glass when built. But only a thorough inspection will tell us.

I understand, and fully concur with, PAR´s comments, but I have seen older woodies in perfect condition.
If she was in permanent useage I think she might be even a better buy than a GRP boat of similar age.

[urisvan]

hi apex,
it will be great if you can contact with your friend and ask him to look at the boat.
lets talk it on saturday

cheers
ulas

[urisvan]

hello,
please explore the photos, and say sometihing about the flaws, needed repairs, places to look more closely...
i am sure that she is a lucky woman, a lot of eyes will look at her.

http://picasaweb.google.com/tetranora/Tetranora#

regards
ulas

[apex1]

I guess, we should look a bit closer. In Marmaris. But lets talk tomorrow.
Meanwhile lookup Ufuk Cakmak, that name rings a bell, but do´nt know why?

[apex1]

So then,

tomorrow we will give the junk a survey! If she is in good condition and Ulas buys her, we will sail her to Stambul.
So far goes the plan. Lets see what life brings.

[apex1]

So then.

Ulas bought the boat, and we started bringing her closer to his home.
Half the way I had to leave the boat due to a business meeting. The two (Ulas and Ahmet, a experienced sailor) are still on the road.

The boat was found in good condition, completely dry inside, no rot, no stains from water ingress, no mold, no mildew.
Obviously the recent owner just kept her clean (extremely important) and optically in good condition. Although it was said the engine was completely overhauled (I have no reason for a doubt after 50 engine hours but I´m not sure).
Electronics are old or shot. Tiller pilot, echosounder, speedo are gone, the VHF and GPS did work when I left the boat.

There are some issues of the severe sort though.
The mastfoot is of galvanized steel, the mast of aluminium, the wedges to hold the palm upright are of wood!!!!!!!
What a clever combination. (for school experiments on electrolyzis)

That has to be checked immediately and replaced by a proper solution.
The mainsail seems to be a redone jib, it does´nt pull the sausage from the dish.
The mainframe under the mast (bulkhead opening between saloon and loo) has a visible crack which might be in one layer of several only. But even when it is going through, it is easily to repair. I doubt it does, `cos no movement was seen even under some proper load while sailing.
Keelbolts need to be renewed (tw of them soon), prop needs to be balanced, hull to be washed.
Nothing one would not expect on every boat of similar age.

And of course, Ulas needs to learn how to handle her. He did notice right the first evening, that real sailing is a bit different from the dinghy and windsurfing sailing he is so used with.

Apart of that, we had two enjoyable nights on the Greek Islands Symi and Kos, although my crew had neither Visa, nor even a passport. (I checked us in though, anyway, two "illegal" Turks in Greece!)

Now lets wait for the final report about the trip (and probably more issues?)

Regards
Richard

[PAR]

Congratulations and more pictures please . . .

[apex1]

Congratulations and more pictures please . . .

Apart from "touristic" shots, there are´nt any. The owner was right besides me when i did the inspection, no proof needed.
But when you like the others (showing Greece ports, the boat, the crew, the Taverna and the way we enjoyed life?
I just must scale them down, size is between 5 and 12 mb per picture.

[apex1]

Here are some:

edit: connection is too slow, I´ll try to add some more another day.
This is Symi (Greek Island) Master and Owner, from left. And one from the Taverna........a old German sack, a constructor on Symi, and a Seaman from Kriti. The laughter is international when there are no tourists around.

[boat fan]

I checked us in though, anyway, two "illegal" Turks in Greece!


You amaze me sometimes , Richard......:D

Diplomat too.......:D

[apex1]

You amaze me sometimes , Richard......:D

Diplomat too.......:D

There is a bit more behind that as you may assume. Even a Ambassador is not able to manage a legal entry without proper visa. I did though. But one needs of course a official, willing to grab the phone and risk a bawling out, especially on a Saturday night.

the Crew list............and the "magic" stamp.

[apex1]

I added a few more pictures above, The boat is registered in Wilmington Delaware btw.!

Regards
Richard

[PAR]

That means it was a corporate write off (company boat) and taking advantage of the very favorable tax rates there. Most of the major US corporations are incorporated in Delaware, as am I.

[apex1]

Of course!

You know there was a experienced advisor involved in the deal?:D

[Herman]

Of course!

You know there was a experienced advisor involved in the deal?:D

Really? I thought YOU were involved? :p :cool: :D

[apex1]

Really? I thought YOU were involved? :p :cool: :D

Hmm, ja, sorry................did hope no one does notice.

[PAR]

'Ya get what you pay for . . .

[apex1]

I was´nt paid, that leaves room for speculations.............

[Herman]

Does Ulas need a life buoy? :)

[apex1]

First he needs some knowledge......................

[urisvan]

hello,
after some days on water in winter time i arrived to my destination(Ayvalık). Now the boat is on ground and i am in Istanbul for a while. It was cold and when it was not very cold it was stormy. It was not comfortable and sometimes i got nervous. But sure, the trip was a big adventure.
she is a very sound boat(one night we climbed on the rocks!!! and nothing happened) It has some small problems. I will ask some advices when i begin to fix the problems.
Maybe i will tell you more stories about the trip and the crew later.

cheers

[Herman]

Congratulations, we will hear from you later! Make pictures!

[troy2000]

hello,
after some days on water in winter time i arrived to my destination(Ayvalık). Now the boat is on ground and i am in Istanbul for a while. It was cold and when it was not very cold it was stormy. It was not comfortable and sometimes i got nervous. But sure, the trip was a big adventure.
she is a very sound boat(one night we climbed on the rocks!!! and nothing happened) It has some small problems. I will ask some advices when i begin to fix the problems.
Maybe i will tell you more stories about the trip and the crew later.

cheers

Congratulations. I've been keeping track of the thread, and wondering when you would make it home.

[urisvan]

hi,
i need to fix some problems about the boat. let me ask some of them.
i unstepped the mast. As seen in the picture, the mast step is made of steel and there is corrosion. the the gap between the mast heel and the mast step is filled with wood.
Before unstepping the mast i was expecting more galvanic corrosion on the mast. But it is not so bad. now i need to clean the rust, find a solution to prevent further corrosion and step the mast again.
i am planning to clean all the rust on the mast step and then paint it with rust converter. Of course i will clean the mast heel. what should i do afterwards? i don't want to change the mast step unless it is really necessary.
what should i do to isolate two dissimilar metals? and which metarial should i put to the gap between the mast step and mast heel to squezee the mast in the mast step?

[erasmos]

hi,
i need to fix some problems about the boat. let me ask some of them.
i unstepped the mast. As seen in the picture, the mast step is made of steel and there is corrosion. the the gap between the mast heel and the mast step is filled with wood.
Before unstepping the mast i was expecting more galvanic corrosion on the mast. But it is not so bad. now i need to clean the rust, find a solution to prevent further corrosion and step the mast again.
i am planning to clean all the rust on the mast step and then paint it with rust converter. Of course i will clean the mast heel. what should i do afterwards? i don't want to change the mast step unless it is really necessary.
what should i do to isolate two dissimilar metals? and which metarial should i put to the gap between the mast step and mast heel to squezee the mast in the mast step?


how did you find her BTW

do you have got any recommendations for search databases locally apart from the big ones?

Wish for ye fair wind in the greaterr voyage!

[erasmos]

regarding the mast did you get anywhere? Its only the mast step thats the problem correct? (not the mast itself?)

http://www.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2032

hi,
i need to fix some problems about the boat. let me ask some of them.
i unstepped the mast. As seen in the picture, the mast step is made of steel and there is corrosion. the the gap between the mast heel and the mast step is filled with wood.
Before unstepping the mast i was expecting more galvanic corrosion on the mast. But it is not so bad. now i need to clean the rust, find a solution to prevent further corrosion and step the mast again.
i am planning to clean all the rust on the mast step and then paint it with rust converter. Of course i will clean the mast heel. what should i do afterwards? i don't want to change the mast step unless it is really necessary.
what should i do to isolate two dissimilar metals? and which metarial should i put to the gap between the mast step and mast heel to squezee the mast in the mast step?