toyota prius conversion into hybrid river RIB

[arn0]

Dear boatdesigners,
New to that forum, I did a couple of search so sorry if you already studied the question or if it is a stupid one:
Do you think it would be possible to adapt the Toyota Prius engine/electronic on a boat?
I think about a river boat, kind of RIB speedboat, so no worry about salt corrosion...
A used, and even first generation Prius would bring an interesting and cheap global hybrid package (control, battery, engines) + some cool electronics (air conditioning, radio,...).
Sorry again if you think its stupid or already covered, just wanted to share the idea...
Thanks!
Arn0

[apex1]

Does´nt the Toyota generate energy when braking? If so, I would rethink the idea.

Regards
Richard

[arn0]

I believe that the 1st version (before 2004) does not regenerate energy when braking

[gonzo]

There are threads on diesel/electric power plants. They run the generator at maximum output and charge the batteries with the surplus power. Then the shut off the generator and run on battery power. The Prius is designed for different parameters. Also, to use the recharging of batteries as brakes.

[Jimbo1490]

I think the usual caveats about duty cycle in marine vs automotive working environments would apply here, and even more than usual. The motors and generator are probably NOT built or intended for extended high-power operation and will likely burn up.

Jimbo

[mark775]

I spent some time on this idea a few years ago and came to the conclusion that the Synergy Drive, as Toyota calls it, is one of the great inventions of my lifetime. It is a set of planetary gears melded with an electric motor. The beauty is that no matter what the engine is doing, one can control, to the RPM, what the output will be and absorb the excess power with the electric motor (generator, at this time).
I was planning a drive for a turbine engine at the time but foresaw economic problems and sold the Highlander Hybrid last summer.
The Highlander is more robust than the Prius.
The Synergy drives in a wrecked vehicle are very expensive tho prices should come down soon (til now, people have found it profitable to repair wrecked Synergies rather than total the car as one would if the drive were not such a high percentage of value).
The electronics involved are daunting, but if one were to transplant everything as a unit it would be simpler.
For my area, regeneration was one of the coolest aspects of this drive and tho I wasn't complete enough in my studies to know how well it would work to anchor in a current and charge batteries, my feeling is that for certain circumstances such as a short commute on a river, the craft you invision could possibly nearly never need be fueled! (your home and work are two miles apart and there is a two knot current in the river).
The drives were made to be hidden in a car's sheet-metal. The thing will not be as elegant as you hope.
There is a company in California, http://www.solomontechnologies.com/wheel.htm , which argues that Toyota "borrowed" their patented idea. These people are full of forward-looking propaganda, IMO, are difficult to deal with but are probably genius enough to do whatever one can afford.
Bear in mind that all hybrids are not created equal and, for the application you talk about, I feel that this type of tech has much promise. You need to actually learn what is happening in the Synergy. Thankfully there is coming to be much info on-line. Keep us posted! I love this!

[fcfc]

Have you seen this ? http://www.greenlinehybrid.nl/

[apex1]

Jimbo summed it up nicely.
And Gonzo gave the right hint. We had this topic here about a thousand times, in all possible varieties.
In short:
big Hotel load, or very high torque at very low speed, is the daily requirement, then it CAN be sensible to have some sort of El. propulsion aboard.
None of the two mentioned above:
leave it.

Regards
Richard

[mark775]

Richard, one reason I was trying to use the synergy was to help use the rapped-out nature of a turbine (plus I like to tinker). Why wouldn't ANY of the electric propulsion systems be favorable in a current (moored in a river 22 of 24 hous) scenario?
I know that this has been covered but I feel that many don't grasp how the Synergy is diffent than other hybrids. One thing is to be able to dial in prop-shaft RPM while under ICE power and utilize best part of power curve while charging batteries. I'm not suggesting it will replace ICE.

[apex1]

Hi Mark,
this part I do´nt understand:
>>>use the rapped-out nature of a turbine (plus I like to tinker). Why wouldn't ANY of the electric propulsion systems be favorable in a current (moored in a river 22 of 24 hous) scenario?<<<

would you elaborate a bit deeper, or simpler for me? Thanks

[tkk]

I think the "hybrid" here does not refer to what we understand with it in shipbuilding i.e. diesel powered generator and electric propulsion.

I think he is indeed trying to use the mechanism converting a car´s braking energy into electricity by letting the propeller run while moored on a river and using it to run the generator and charge the batteries.

[apex1]

I think he is indeed trying to use the mechanism converting a car´s braking energy into electricity by letting the propeller run while moored on a river and using it to run the generator and charge the batteries.

Thanks,
yeah that makes me understand the sentence. (the words, not the sense)
This sort of setup will not produce much power. What is the current (turning a prop) compared with 1500 kg of mass on the brake, coming down from 80 km/h (to use a moderate speed)? Yes, nothing.

[tkk]

On the other hand, the boat would spend a lot more time moored than the car is being braked. You really need to do the math first.

Anyway, very interesting as a concept.

[apex1]

Nothing to complain tkk.

[gonzo]

The problem with using a propeller for power production, is that the pitch is wrong. You need something with a really high pitch to be efficient. Also, it would put an enormous amount of wear and tear on the shaft, cutlass bearing and stuffing box. Failure or excessive wear on those componenst may cause the boat to sink.

[Submarine Tom]

Good point gonzo.

How about a station on the mooring dock that plugs into the boat.

Specialized propeller, nice and big with lots of gearing...

[gonzo]

I think that an electric boat can be very economical. A backup generator to recharge the batteries would be nice. To charge with current, a dedicated generator would be more efficient and cheaper.