sailboat design ideas

[shipwreck]

Hello Boat Designers, I'm looking for suggestions for a sailboat design that is around 30ft. long, has a flat deck, and a large spacious cabin. This sailboat does not have to be fast. Any suggestions or links will be appreciated. Thank you.

[gonzo]

Do you mean a raised deck?

[alan white]

Sounds like a flush deck. It's doubtful that you'd get standing headroom in a 30 footer with a flush deck unless the boat is quite burdonsome (maybe 15-18,000 lbs displacement).
What I mean to say is, of course you could do it with a relatively light boat, but it would be rather high-sided and probably a little clumsy looking. It would sail on its mooring and the hull would catch a fair bit of wind going to weather.
Look at the Stone Horse design. At 24 ft, and moderate displacement, the cabin is a real cave, having very little headroom, being perhaps 1 1/2 feet shy of standing headroom. At 30 ft, the same design upscaled might have 5 1/2 feet of headroom.
You can get headroom and sleekness at 35 ft. I would suggest a small doghouse if the boat is 30 ft, enough for the head, galley, and a bit of the berth area to be full standing headroom of maybe 6 ft 2-3 inches.
It needn't be wider than 5 ft or longer than 8 ft, so you still would have a lot of deck. Most importantly, you'd have low windage and a more attractive boat.

[wardd]

im in love with the bolger as-29 at the moment

[apex1]

, has a flat deck, and a large spacious cabin. Thank you.


Was meinst Du? Deck ohne Aufbau, oder sogenanntes "Backdeck"?

Gruß
Richard

[shipwreck]

Boatdesigners, Thanks for the quick responses. My background is architecture and set building and this is why i may ask some silly questions and use the wrong terms. Sorry about this. I do mean flushdeck sailboat. I looked at the
Stone Horse design and this is a great suggestion and i'm still looking at the Bolger 29.

Is it possible to have a flushdeck sailboat at 30ft with 6ft.4 inch headroom and have a deeper draft so the hull won't catch so much wind and look clumsy? As mentioned by Alan White.

I assume the draft of a sailboat is determined by weight (?) and is it a crazy idea to add extra weight to the keel in order to have a deeper draft?

Herr Richard: es tut mir Leid! Ich sprachen kein deutch! aber, ya, eine segelboot mit kein aufbau. Danke.

[Rick Willoughby]

Hello Boat Designers, I'm looking for suggestions for a sailboat design that is around 30ft. long, has a flat deck, and a large spacious cabin. This sailboat does not have to be fast. Any suggestions or links will be appreciated. Thank you.

Peter Cole designed some high decked boats in the 1980s. The Nantucket Island 33 was flush deck:
http://yachthub.com/index.html?page=list/ed.html?de=57985
They look better in the flesh than the photos here.

There is also a Cole 31 that I think was built with a flush deck but the most common variation is the Eastcoast 31 and it has a slightly raised deck that is not quite flush. The ports are in the side of the hull though similar to the NI33.

Second hand boats are still available around Australia for a reasonable price. They are large volume boats for the length and sail well. The 31 was designed to IOR half ton rule and was very competitive. Not as extreme as some - really nice on the eye. They were too pricey for me at the time but were my first choice.

Rick W

[alan white]

Boatdesigners, Thanks for the quick responses. My background is architecture and set building and this is why i may ask some silly questions and use the wrong terms. Sorry about this. I do mean flushdeck sailboat. I looked at the
Stone Horse design and this is a great suggestion and i'm still looking at the Bolger 29.

Is it possible to have a flushdeck sailboat at 30ft with 6ft.4 inch headroom and have a deeper draft so the hull won't catch so much wind and look clumsy? As mentioned by Alan White.

I assume the draft of a sailboat is determined by weight (?) and is it a crazy idea to add extra weight to the keel in order to have a deeper draft?

Herr Richard: es tut mir Leid! Ich sprachen kein deutch! aber, ya, eine segelboot mit kein aufbau. Danke.

A sailboat is a collection of comprimises. You can't have it all but neither can anyone else. You needn't go too heavy, too deep, too clumsy looking, or too anything. You have to comprimise and give a little in a lot of areas.
I think there are plenty of boats out there with flush decks that you might find attractive and functional.
Earlier, I was talking about ideals, but you aren't so far off the mark in your requirements that nothing can be done. You just need to find the right comprimise, that's all.
Is this a deep sea boat or a coasting boat or what? You start with the intended use and go from there.

[shipwreck]

Good idea to start with the intended use and go from there. This boat would be used in not so deep and shallow lake region in Germany, outside Berlin. My main purpose is to be able to sleep comfortably for a night or two and be able to sail very short distances. The sailboat can not be too big because i only have so much room in my backyard! 30ft is max. Thanks.

[apex1]

Hmm, that makes the task not easier.
You have choosen to sail the shallowest region in the European waterways. (naturally)
Neither the lakes and rivers in Brandenburg, nor the Müritz Nationalpark allow for a draught that would make your idea possible.

Due to the lack of strong winds you should give up the idea of a flush deck I recommend.

Regards
Richard

[shipwreck]

Hi Richard. Thanks for speaking english. Yes, i live in Potsdam. The lakes here are not deep. What would you say is the deepest draught a sailboat can have in this region? 1.25 meters or 1m ? Thanks.

[apex1]

Deepest possible should be around 1,5m, deepest sensible 1m, even that´s a lot, because there are quite many shallow regions. The Oder is sometimes below 1m during summer (just as a example).

[wardd]

seems to me that a center raised portion that would let you move about to where you want to go would suffice

do you need full standing room over settees bunks/beds galley counters etc?

what is your reason for wanting full flat deck area?

[yipster]

Hello Boat Designers, I'm looking for suggestions for a sailboat design that is around 30ft. long, has a flat deck, and a large spacious cabin. This sailboat does not have to be fast. Any suggestions or links will be appreciated. Thank you.
after all said you might want to consider a catamaran
this one (http://www.multihulls-world.com/us/catamarans/tests/mahe-36,429.html) from the top of a quik search is 36ft and has little draft, planty flat deck and spacious cabin, 30ft cats there too

[peterAustralia]

30ft mono sloop, flush deck, 6ft 3' standing headroom, yes

here it is
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/sovereig.htm

[apex1]

Nice boat Peter, but more than 1,5m draught unfortunately.

[lewisboats]

I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for. To get what you want you would need a boat that would be an undesirable set of compromises just to get the headroom and you would only have that headroom for a few feet along the length of the boat at it's deepest. It would probably need bilge keels to get the draft, or perhaps leeboards. Now there is a thought ...look to the Dutch...some of their designs might fit the bill...

[apex1]

None of them Steve,
but they are a perfect choice for these shallow waters! All the Aaks, Tjalks, Kotters, Botters have a house.

[lewisboats]

Gesundheit! And I hope you can pronounce them too... ;). Well...I tried.

[frank smith]

Bolger's Yonder , shallow draft . that would be my choice .http://www.flickr.com/photos/86125870@N00/2592882623

[apex1]

Bolger's Yonder , shallow draft . that would be my choice .http://www.flickr.com/photos/86125870@N00/2592882623

Yeah, the ability to read is sometimes a great supporter when a serious answer is the goal.

[frank smith]

Yeah, the ability to read is sometimes a great supporter when a serious answer is the goal.

I really like it . Such a smart design , but a little complex IMO

[apex1]

I really like it . Such a smart design , but a little complex IMO

Of course YOU like it. And if only to contradict me.

The thread opener though wanted something different. But you have proven several times today, you are not interested in others opinions or requirements. You want to spread your drivel.

[frank smith]

Of course YOU like it. And if only to contradict me.

The thread opener though wanted something different. But you have proven several times today, you are not interested in others opinions or requirements. You want to spread your drivel.

Read it again oh brilliant one .

[Milan]

Have a look at these:

http://www.yago-project.com/content/view/61/58/lang,en/
http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_9.htm
http://www.hartley-boats.com/30.html

[gonzo]

How about a folding trimaran?

[frank smith]

not flush deck but a good boat nis 31
http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsSmall/31-Foot-Cat-Yawl.jpg

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/nis31.html

[lewisboats]

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/nis31.html

Cat(boat) got your tongue?

edit: Whooops...musta caught it before everything got through...sorry!

[frank smith]

I like the yago project .

[yipster]

that (http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsLarge/31-Foot-Cat-Yawl.jpg) is the waterline not the bottom, but seriously; on calm water and budget a flatbottom sharpie (http://www.proaxis.com/~janlark/bw2_fos2.jpg) with swing keel is doable
http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm

[frank smith]

that (http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsLarge/31-Foot-Cat-Yawl.jpg) is the waterline not the bottom, but seriously; on calm water and budget a flatbottom sharpie (http://www.proaxis.com/~janlark/bw2_fos2.jpg) with swing keel is doable
http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm

No question it can be done in a sharpie , Bolgers SA29 comes close.
But you could go bigger in the same length. Dont think 6'4" works
well for the whole length , but that depend on what kind of sailing
you want from it .

[apex1]

Is it possible to have a flushdeck sailboat at 30ft with 6ft.4 inch headroom and have a deeper draft so the hull won't catch so much wind and look clumsy........

Hi Richard. Thanks for speaking english. Yes, i live in Potsdam. The lakes here are not deep. What would you say is the deepest draught a sailboat can have in this region? 1.25 meters or 1m ? Thanks.

answer
Deepest possible should be around 1,5m, deepest sensible 1m, even that´s a lot, because there are quite many shallow regions. The Oder is sometimes below 1m during summer (just as a example).

Proposals?

[Fanie]

I would consider a catamaran with fatter hulls to provide shallow draft and with a keel, If the draft can be made for 300mm and the keels 200mm you are at 500mm. The fatter hulls would make small depth differences when heeling. More space than a mono etc etc. You can also have your headroom then.

[frank smith]

A nice house boat with a lug sail and lee boards would be nice .
what a fun boat it could be with a large poop deck and a pilot house .
It would be very stable ,like a church .

[sharpii2]

You can always go with a deep 'V' hull and a long straight keel.

I did that with my 35 ft final project boat. The cabin was a raised deck and there was only about two feet of clearance between the deck and the boom. It was intended as a live aboard in colder climes. It was very similar to a 'cowhorn' which was its inspiration, though it was much lighter.

To work the rig, you had to work from below through hatches. Not an ideal situation. Also, the rig was a low aspect ratio gaff cutter with a balanced jib for a staysail.

In real life, it would be bulky, somewhat clumsy, but emenently seaworthy. And probably not a slow as one might expect. But certtainly no high performance boat.

The sail area was relatively small but adequate and the outer jib was attached to a bowsprit. It would either be roller reefing or it would have a downhaul, so it could be struck without having to go forward.

The long keel had generous area which would have helped to prevent it from blowing all over the mooring when at anchored. the draft was 4.75 ft.

It seems like you are willing to put up with a huge amount of inconvenience and expense to get full headroom. There are cheaper ways to do this.

Bolger pioneered the 'slot cabin' concept where the cabin has an open slot in its top to provide standing and walking room aboard a 24 ft decked over sharpie. A fabric would close the slot, or any part of it to complete the shelter.

Another option is a pop up cabin top, where the cabin sides, in part or in full, are fabric and the cabin top is rigid. It is raised only when the boat isn't sailing. This was used on trailer sailors during the '70's.

Both of these options work on extremely light and easy to trailer boats that are under 30 ft.

These are the directions I would go, if I wasn't planing on living aboard.

[frank smith]

sharpii2 ,interesting sounding boat , got a pics .

[oralpiskin]

hi,
ı have a project work to do, and ı must use series64 method to find effective horse power but ı no know about this method...how can ı find about series64 method?

[apex1]

hi,
ı have a project work to do, and ı must use series64 method to find effective horse power but ı no know about this method...how can ı find about series64 method?

Sure not here!

Contact "urisvan" through PM, he may help you at ITU.

Or use the search function above to find a answer here. Series 64 was handled several times.

[sharpii2]

sharpii2 ,interesting sounding boat , got a pics .

Hi Frank.

Here are the original concept sketches. They show the hull and mast but not the rig. The rig is a gaff cutter with a balanced jib staysail and an ordinary outer jib.

[sharpii2]

Good idea to start with the intended use and go from there. This boat would be used in not so deep and shallow lake region in Germany, outside Berlin. My main purpose is to be able to sleep comfortably for a night or two and be able to sail very short distances. The sailboat can not be too big because i only have so much room in my backyard! 30ft is max. Thanks.

Thinking about the question as it has became much modified, (a lake only about one meter deep) I came up with this idea. Here, for your entertainment, I submit the following proposal. It is the shortest, smallest, cheapest solution I can come up with. The cabin has the space of a typical jail cell. I figure that if a man can spend the rest of his life in a space this small, he can certainly spend a few weeks in it.

A 20 ft (6.12 m) by 8 ft (2.44) scow, rigged as a gaff cutter, with an aft cabin and a long fixed keel. (See attachments below.)

I thought of a scow for three reasons:

1.) It provides the most initial stability of all the mono hull types. With the high cabin, the rig is going to have to be high to clear it. And that means the Center of Area (CA) is going to have to be high as well.
2.) The hull can be narrow enough to provide legal trailering ability (at least in the USA), and
3.) The construction of the hull and fitting it out can be immensely simplified

I thought that an aft cabin arrangement should be considered even though it complicates the steering system, makes auxiliary power more difficult, and has the cabin entrance facing the wind while at anchor.

I thought mainly of the helmsman being able to see where he is going without having to be perched high up in the air. I also thought of the aft cabin as interesting aerodynamically. It kind of acts as a mizzen on a yawl that is never struck. While at anchor, it will help the boat behave itself. It will also give the bow a certain amount of upwind proclivity while adrift. This could help make getting underway somewhat easier, as the boat won’t charge downwind down wind once all sail is struck.

The long keel is somewhat a product of the aft cabin. The aft cabin makes some kind of retractable rudder somewhat complicated and difficult to set up. With a fixed keel, the rudder can be fixed as well. I also had trouble coming up with a leeboard system that would be able to SAIL in one meter of water and not just FLOAT in it. With the leeboard system I originally thought of, the boards would pivot only on the fore and aft plane and both would be down at the same time. In one meter of water, the lee side board would be touching the bottom much of the time.

The long, fixed keel cures this dramatically. The all up draft at full displacement is less than two thirds of a meter and that’s with the boat sitting dead upright. As the boat heels the draft will be somewhat less. This is one of the very rare occasions where a long keel is actually superior, despite its massive wetted area and general upwind inefficiency. Tacking in this boat will really be a series of glorified close reaches. But it will make upwind progress in very shallow water. Something that probably cannot be said with certainty with any other arrangement with a hull with this much windage.

The odd gaff cutter rig is a product of the high aft cabin and the long keel. The sail area of the main sail can be shortened quite quickly by dropping the peek. One of the jibs can also be hauled down quickly as well (both would have down hauls). Thus, sail area can be substantially reduced in very short order without tying a single reef. With one of the jibs down, the other can be back winded to force the bow through the wind when changing tacks, which will make this operation much more reliable.

Interestingly, the vertical CA is not much lower than it would be if the main were jib headed. The mast would be only about three feet taller as well. But the horizontal CA would be too far forward (which it may be as is, already) requiring an even longer boom and/or a deeper fore keel as well. With an S/D of nearly 17, I think the sail area is within reason.

With the amidship cockpit, the mast could possibly be stepped without a crane or tabernacle by one person. With a forward cabin, a tabernacle would almost certainly be needed to make this possible. Also, on a hot summer day, the open doorway facing the wind may be much appreciated.

The two biggest flies in this ointment are how to provide cheap auxiliary power and how to reef and strike the sail with the boom so high up in the air.

The auxiliary power would be an outboard engine which would be mounted in the cockpit with the lower unit protruding through the hull in a well near the keel. Dealing with exhaust fumes provides a vexing problem. I have thought of a PVC pipe behind the exhaust port (if it is above the water) with some kind of fan to suck the fumes in and blow them out over the side. Certainly not my favorite arrangement, but it may work.

So far, I have not thought of a solution for the high boom. But at least there will be few worries about being smacked in the head by the boom J.

This boat may not win any races, but it may certainly turn a few heads. :- And as it makes progress to windward, despite its enormous bulk, it may turn even more.