formula jr. thunderbird need info

[Ron F]

First of all I may be at the wrong site and for that matter doing this all wrong since I have never posted anything before. I have in poor condition a 1966+- formula jr. thunderbird 17' +- with a 6 cyl merc. My question I guess is it worth fixing up? I know it was a for runner of donzi and designed by jim Wynn/Walt Walters before the donzi 16 was put into production and the formula jr set aside never to make it into production as far as I can tell. Maybee I have the only one ?

[yipster]

First of all I may be at the wrong site and for that matter doing this all wrong since I have never posted anything before. I have in poor condition a 1966+- formula jr. thunderbird 17' +- with a 6 cyl merc. My question I guess is it worth fixing up? I know it was a for runner of donzi and designed by jim Wynn/Walt Walters before the donzi 16 was put into production and the formula jr set aside never to make it into production as far as I can tell. Maybee I have the only one ?
With the retirement of the Boston Whaler 13, the Donzi 16 is one of the oldest fiberglass powerboat designs still in production. The very first boat to wear the Donzi name was a little 16 foot runabout called the Ski Sporter. Its design layout, was based on an earlier wooden racing boat known as the 17 foot Wyn-Mil II. The Wyn-Mill II was later developed in to a production boat all on its own called the Formula Jr. two years after the introduction of the 16. Although the Formula Jr. and the 16 are very simular in design, they do not share any dimentions and should be consided completely different boats, derived from completely different proto-types. Designed by Jim Wynne and Walt Walters, the Ski Sporter was introduced in 1964.]

21 results on walt walters (http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=%22Walt+Walters%22+%2B+%22boat%22&kgs=0&kls=1&avkw=aapt) who rang a bell (a pro who recently died in freak fire accident fixing a fuel tank?)

[Lenny]

First of all I may be at the wrong site and for that matter doing this all wrong since I have never posted anything before. I have in poor condition a 1966+- formula jr. thunderbird 17' +- with a 6 cyl merc. My question I guess is it worth fixing up? I know it was a for runner of donzi and designed by jim Wynn/Walt Walters before the donzi 16 was put into production and the formula jr set aside never to make it into production as far as I can tell. Maybee I have the only one ?

Ron, I too have a glass Formula Junior. They were originally available as a plywood kit boat in Popular Mechanics type books in about '64, about a year after it won the Paris Gran Prix. There is a ton of info on it available at http://www.donzi.net. I have a light blue one, no power as yet. I have spent about a week running this red one in the waters here in the last couple years. 350 MAG and Alpha GenII. They are a better handling (landing) boat than the Donzi Ski Sporter (16) but no match for the 18 (DONZI). I have all three of these boats. The Formula is a drier boat, very similar freeboard to the 16 Donzi, but tracks better and resists the urge to "stuff". I would definately fix it up and if you don't want to PLEASE let me know.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/lgreen20.jpg

Post some pics or email me some !!! :D ...Lenny

[Jimbo]

Hi guys...I also have one of these Formula Jrs. and have been looking for information on the web for months. Finally found your information today. I was beginning to think I might have the only one! I bought mine 5 years ago and have started restoration. I'm no expert at this but have had some help. I am close to starting the interior and mechanical/electrical. I've had it painted and man does it look good. Any recommendations as to what engine to put in it? other electrical parts? thanks...Jim

[Lenny]

No question. A 350 Mag MPI/Bravo1 c/w silent choice exhaust if you need to be "quiet" sometimes. This combination will yield an honest GPS 66-ish. These boats don't need tabs to run flat and hard. They are WONDERFUL boats to run hard in a following sea and stuffing them is a bit of a task as it stays on top nicely. Think about raising the X dimension an inch or so.

Trust me, you will LOVE the ride ! :D

[Mini Formula]

Re Thunderbird Formula boats. I have a 1981 Formula One 17 ft made by Thunderbird corporation . Only 300 hours running. In mint condition just now powered bu mercruiser 140 hp all original. Any idea how many where build of these ?. Who designed it ? Have only seen som pictures on the net but not received any ansver.

[old school]

Re Thunderbird Formula boats. I have a 1981 Formula One 17 ft made by Thunderbird corporation . Only 300 hours running. In mint condition just now powered bu mercruiser 140 hp all original. Any idea how many where build of these ?. Who designed it ? Have only seen som pictures on the net but not received any ansver.

I have a 1980 18 ft? Formula too in mint condition with a 470 mercruiser. It has been in the family since new. Can't find any info on the web. Would love to see pictures. Have never seen another one like it. Bright yellow black strip and white on top. Built way ahead of its time. Get so many compliments on it out on the lake. So I don't have any answers to your question other than there is at least an 80 model out here.

[Lenny]

The "infamous" Formula Junior was designed in 1963-4...It won the Paris Gran Prix. These are NOT the same boats. It went into production in glass around '66. For about 3 years...

[Lenny]

The Formula Jr. was sold along with the Formula 233 in late 63/early 64. From the Miami News by Miami News Outdoors Editor Jim Hardie -
"Don Aronow, who carved a name for himself locally in the boat-building and racing fraternity and his partner sold their interest in the Formula Boat Company yesterday.
Dick Genth of Thunderbird Boat Company made the purchase for an undisclosed amount. 'It was a substantial and satisfatory amount' Aronow said.
In an interview published last Sunday, Aronow stated his primary interest was in prototype research and development of rough water racing boats. 'Boat manufacturing in itself holds no interest for me' he said.
The move by Aronow and his partner, David Stirrat, came as a surprise because they had just announced that in its first year of operation the Formula Company operated in the black and prospects for the coming year were optimistic.
'The sale is effedtive immediately and Genth is looking for a larger building in which to set up manufacture of the 23 foot Formula' Aronow said. ' He purchased the rights to the name Formula, and he also has the molds and plans for the 17 footer which we were just setting up to produce'

The article goes on to talk about Don and Dave and their plans for the future - no mention of Donzi yet -

As for the difference in the 17' Jr. and 16' Donzi and who produced what when and where, it seems everyone remembers it a little different. Dick remembered it one way in an hour long converation I had with him prior to and as per King of Thunderboat Row. Others have different recollections.

One thing can be agreed upon now. - The 17' Formula Jr. was Jim and Walt's design, a variation of the original Wyn Mill and that the Donzi 16' was a direct descendant of the Wyn Mill II - a totally different design.

As stated in the Donzi brouchure in 64, the Donzi 16 was "Designed by a team composed of Don Aronow, Dave Stirrat, Jim Wynne and Waltman W. Walters, internationally known marine consultants, designers, ocean racers and builders,(the same team that designed, raced and owned the Formula 233, 275 and Formula Jr.).
"The Donzi 16 has been refined, tested and proved for 3 years. Hull and strake designs have been proven in the Wyn Mill II, test model holder of 8 world marathon records."

And as powerboat writer and sometime racer Bill McKeown wrote in BoatCraft Magazine in June/July of 1965, when writing about Donzi Marine and the 16', -
" Last year Aronow sold Formula to Thunderbird Boats and called in Wynne and Walters to design a different line. During Wynne's testing of his creations, he won the world's offshore championship for 1964.
The Donzi 16 was several years in preperation however. We watched Jim Wynne and Tommy Sopwith drive early prototypes for the Six Hour Endurance Race through the steep chop of the Siene to a class win in Paris three years ago. Wynne repeated the performance two successive years at the Miami Nine Hour as well, and set a number of international records with the little 'Wyn Mill II' along the way."
Bill's article ended as follows:
" And when its rough and you still want to go, she can take it if you can. We remember the first time we saw this in action several years ago. A boisterous Bahama day had blown up for the Around New Providence Race after a flat-sea-go from Miami to Nassau. Running easily on the rough sea in a Formula 23 with Jim Wynne driving, we watched Briggs Cunningham jump his big 38 foot twin diesel cruiser out of the water occasionally in the bumby going. Then behind we saw a little rocket flying low over the water. Sure enough, there came the indomitalble duo, Cox and Joyce, driving Wyn-Mill for all they were worth, and passing the bigger stuff struggling through the seas.
That was a prototype, but now anyone can drive the real thing in a Donzi 16, if they feel up to it."

This is a direct quote from Michael Aronow about 2 months ago. Yes, his Dad, Don, was involved in this, prior to selling Thunderbird and starting DONZI,..BUT,...!!! what you are describing in 1980-ish doesn't even resemble what they are talking about...I have one of the old ones. The boats ran from about 1966-1967, a few hundred in total. Plans were in Popular Mechanics or something in this time frame for a plywood version.

[ronf]

Ron, I too have a glass Formula Junior. They were originally available as a plywood kit boat in Popular Mechanics type books in about '64, about a year after it won the Paris Gran Prix. There is a ton of info on it available at http://www.donzi.net. I have a light blue one, no power as yet. I have spent about a week running this red one in the waters here in the last couple years. 350 MAG and Alpha GenII. They are a better handling (landing) boat than the Donzi Ski Sporter (16) but no match for the 18 (DONZI). I have all three of these boats. The Formula is a drier boat, very similar freeboard to the 16 Donzi, but tracks better and resists the urge to "stuff". I would definately fix it up and if you don't want to PLEASE let me know.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/lgreen20.jpg

Post some pics or email me some !!! :D ...Lenny
starting to work on boat no pictures yet but I could really use a owners/maintenance manual. I got the picture of your boat incrediable !!! I hope to get mine like yours someday. Only thing is when I went to print it out i could only get just a little of the back to print out. any help

[Lenny]

Good luck with it. If I can help let me know. You are dreaming if you think you are going to find an owners manual I think. :rolleyes: Take care.

[DanA]

I owned the company that made seats for these boats after Aronow sold out to T-bird. The acquisition involved only the orginal F-233 and Formula Jr. T-bird was run by Dick Genth and they also acquired Drif-r-cruz houseboats in around '69 or '70 (they raced a 40' houseboat in a Miami Nassau Power Boat Race and it almost sank from sea water entering the hull vents; the Miami Herald sports writer, Jim Martenoff was aboard and wrote about the experience). After acquiring this line, T-bird produced only around 150 jrs. and stopped the line until several years later when they reintroduced it with 3 other Formulas (18' 21' approximate).

[John Settle]

Hey Guys,
I see that I am a few months behind in some of the postings for Thunderbird Formula Jrs, but wanted to step in. I too have a 1966 Formula jr 17', and am trying to get more photos and specs before restoring it. I know the history of Donzi and the similarities with the sweet-16, but does anyone have more information on these boats?
It seems everyone has info on the Donzis, but not us......
Can anyone help?
My email address is:
jrsettle@cox.net
Thanks,
John

[glassman]

I to have a jr 66 looked for long time but got it .If you need info on it the rep from formula was sum what helpful ,send me sum pics of the one in the plants showroom. My jr. is on its way back to life took deck off and starting to cover hull and deck with epoxy and 6oz glass but have plans to cut the neckbreaker seat out and more,

[Ron F]

I finally purchased the boat and got it home. needs fiberglass repair on the underside of the bow since it has collapsed due to heavy snow one winter.It also has stress cracks on each side where the bow meets the sides. Any suggestions on wat I should try working with Fiberglass kits or epoxy resin from west system. Also It has the mercruiser straight 6 with a chevy block sn 1948514 , the outdrive says mercruiser on it c2000732 should I get a book I found "mercruiser stern drives 1964-85? :?: :?:

[Ron F]

lenny help me with a supplier or contact for rub rails. also please send another picture of your red boat I think that is the original color and layout of stripes or my boat . p.s. what color red did you use. Help ron :confused:

[Ron F]

Just wondering if you recieved any information or pictures. I'm stating to restore my boat and have lots of questions on its original color since mine was painted several times and none the same color. :confused:

[Lenny]

Ron, the Red one I sent pics of is not mine. It is one I have spent a lot of time in. It resides in mid Oregon. Those pics are from when he brought it up to Puget Sound to play with and then the Gulf Islands (where I live)

The stripe lay-out is correct, as for colour, I don't know but it is close.
Mine is light blue and also in need of a LOT of work but all there other than the clamshell vents and rails. The rails are the same as the early DONZI's as well.

There is not much I can help with du to the small numbers of these boats. :(

http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynnMill_Drawings_001sm.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynnMill_Drawings_002sm.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynMillHullsm.jpg

The original Plywood plan boat from Popular Mechanics article years and years ago...
http://www.donzi.net/photos/Wynn-Mill_II.jpg

Mid sixties advertisement

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10571

[Ron F]

Just A Quick Thank You The Drawings And Info Will Be A Great Help . I,ll Keep You Informed On How The Restoration Is Going

[joshua77]

hi everyone. i also own a 66 formula jr t-bird. i have owned the boat for a little over 9 years; boat has been in family since the early '70s; and haven't been able to find any info on the boats,until know. my boat is in good overall shape,is red and white, has a 302 v8(ford) and a volvo penta lower unit. i would like to restore my boat in the near future but need a little help finding info on the boat and would like some ideas on possibly putting newer fuel injected motor and newer style volvo penta lower unit in the boat. also my steering in the boat is just plain horrible ,it has a lot of torque steer( no power steering) would also like to know what kind of steering systems everybody else has. if anybody has any advice,info,pictures,anything about our boats please email me at Sawa2u77@yahoo.com. thanks josh

[rustnrot]

I am new to this discussion but wanted to say I have gotten the Wynn-Mill II plans and I am entering the table of offsets into a CAD program. I intend to build one using my CNC router to cut the frames.

If anyone wants to sell their Formula Jr. project boats, let me know as I would love to have one!

[capt jdr]

Capt jdr just recently acquired a Formula Jr 1967 with a 4-cylinder 120 hp Mer-Cruiser that has been neglected in a RI back yard for 20 years. Finally I found this web site, what a relief! Will post pictures as soon as I can, plan to restore it. Looking for advice. Glad to know there are more out there!

[daveboat]

I HAVE A FORMULA JR. FOR SALE, PROJECT BOAT IS IN PENSACOLA, FL CALL 850.434.7361Ron, I too have a glass Formula Junior. They were originally available as a plywood kit boat in Popular Mechanics type books in about '64, about a year after it won the Paris Gran Prix. There is a ton of info on it available at http://www.donzi.net. I have a light blue one, no power as yet. I have spent about a week running this red one in the waters here in the last couple years. 350 MAG and Alpha GenII. They are a better handling (landing) boat than the Donzi Ski Sporter (16) but no match for the 18 (DONZI). I have all three of these boats. The Formula is a drier boat, very similar freeboard to the 16 Donzi, but tracks better and resists the urge to "stuff". I would definately fix it up and if you don't want to PLEASE let me know.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/lgreen20.jpg

Post some pics or email me some !!! :D ...Lenny

[daveboat]

Formula Jr. For Sale, Project Boat Is Located In Pensacola, Fl Call 850.434.7361

[Lenny]

Can you send me some pics to highlnd@telus.net and an asking price?

[andybjr]

Guys I to have a 1965 17.2 formula jr. I have had this boat for 20 years and it is a blast. I thought I had the only one sinse I have never seen another one in my state of south carolina. Mine has white roll pleat thru out and I took a bass boat seat and had it recovered in pleat and navy inserts since the boat color is old ford blue. I had a teak dash made to house a stereo and tweeters. Mine came with a windshield and ss tubing on front but i did away with that . It has a six cylinder and the old mercruser in it. Would love to see some more pictures from other members. The red one on the site is great and looks just like mine except mine has a roll pleat pad on the back motor deck lid.

[Lenny]

I would love to have your old windshield for a pattern. I am using my light blue Formula Junior as a plug (for now) to get a fresh mold together. These are fabulous running boats, and very forgiving in larger water at speed. Jim Wynne did his homework with this design.

The original windshield would make a great pattern for reproduction purposes. Let me know if you still have it.

:)

[andybjr]

Lenny, I am sorry to report that I do not have original windshield. I tossed years ago. Thought I might go with a low profile type that you see on the sweet sixteen, the other was so bulky and obstructed and I didnt think about originality. Sorry Andy

[tcarden]

Guys,

I would love to see some pictures of your Furmula jr.s. My dad used to have one I think. it was 17-18ft, closed bow, barell back, had a 150hp mercruiser and wraparound seating. I sure would like to find one of those to restore and keep

[Owens]

I'll be happy to answer any questions you guys have on these boats.
I've done extensive and exhaustive research on them so maybe I can save some one a little time and give informed suggestions.

The boat was never really designed, as stock, to go faster than say 51 MPH.
With out Trim Tabs it will start to walk at precisely 54 MPH with one 190lbs pilot. With Trim Tabs, I have Bennett's, the boat is completely stable up to my max speed of 62 mph at sea level and in salt, with a mild tuned 351 Cleveland Ford, Merc Type 1MR ( pre-alpha) at 1.33:1 with 23 Pitch cupped Prop. (The Standard Merc aluminum 23 pitch, three blade.) It will go 64 with a SS Prop of the same dimensions. The boats seems to be designed to run at 7 degrees positive trim. Which is a little higher than the normal 5 degrees.

The engine is right in the apex of the torque curve here at 4600 RPM.
The hull is a straight 24 degree deadrise hull. Even with a 351 Small Block, its still something of a choir to get the boat "on top" of the water. This boat does not want to plane from a standstill. You will not win any drag races with it and there is noticeable slip and blow out till the prop hooks up. I always revert to the S-turn maneuver to get it up and to get some of the keel turbulence away from the prop. When that happens, this thing is pure pleasure to drive, especially with tabs.

I get her to 7 degrees using the out-drive trim, then make the tabs just kiss the water. Now this boat is ready for anything.
The most amazing aspect is how this hull, set up in this way, will auto-correct for you. It will forgive and stabilize on almost any type of wave environment. Its almost too easy to drive this boat and then get into trouble when something clearly did need attention like a rouge wave or a huge drop out.
When that happens, you will appreciate the pronounced flair and beam of the mid-ships. It will recover. You'll be wet and freaked, but the boat did what it was designed to do, as a race boat, and stayed right-side up.

Wynne designed many boats in his life. If he was still alive, my first question would be, "what was YOUR favorite." I sometimes feel like I know the answer to that question.

owens

[Tanguy Paris]

HI guys Just a few word to introduce myself i live in Paris in an old Tjalk build in 1904 (dutch or holland boat) and i own a formula junior Thunderbird made in 1966 in US.

My friends and i like this boat and is 145 volvo penta motor because it's nice to ski with it. she's nearly in perfect condition except the front window (sorry i don't know the exact word to say it in france we call it : pare brise ) which is missing.

I'd like to complete this nice boat by a "new" one do you know where i could find it ?

i ve read that this boat won a price in Paris in 66 there are only a very few of them in France and maybe it could be mine i think the boat was called BARRACUDA 5....

thx for your help and if you come over do not hésitate to visit me - it's forbidden to use a wakeboard in Paris with the formula junior but it's so gooooood !

May be youd'like to see it so : http://formula-jr-t-bird.weebly.com/

salut les potes !

tanguy

[NJChris]

what a great looking hull!

[Phyllis L]

This is my first post. Can anyone give me and idea of what a 66 Formula Jr. is worth. It belonged to my brother who recently passed away. It is in good condition. It has a 302 Ford motor with 351 heads. Will clip at 70 mph if needed. You can contact me at phyllisdlee717@yahoo.com with any information.

[plumrhumr]

Hello I just purchaced this boat ,but i'm confused.The title says its manufactured by Plaster Fab,The hull # is CY6603C.It does'nt say anything about what model it is.It has a ford 302,with a 175 omc stearndrive.It has a small window in the windshield that opens , but not a walk thru.Can you shed any light on what I have.

[NJChris]

i believe donzi.net would have some info on the formula jr

[plumrhumr]

Thanks for your reply,I'll check it out.Have a good night.

[plumrhumr]

Hello again.I tried to register with donzi,but I never recieved a confirmation email back.Does it take awhile?

[zplume]

Just happened to run across this post and thought I would add my 2-cents. I have a 1966 blue hull, white top with blue stripe and black interior formula jr. It has reverse rotation 289/302 with interceptor through hull exhaust and an eaton outdrive. I have owned it for 20yrs but the outdrive had issues when I first bought it and I repaired it once with some very hard to find parts for the extinct eaton out drive. The next time it broke I was a poor college kid and parked it in the field. I have always wanted to restore it since it is such a rare and cool boat. I just pulled it up to the shop and am deciding what to do. I believe I will find a doner boat with a ford/mercruiser or cobra set up to install this winter and get on with the restoration. looking forward to having it in the water next spring with any luck, zac alpena mi

[djwrb]

Hi, I found this thread while looking for info on the Thunderbird Formula Jr. We have a Formula Jr and are interested in selling it for restoration. We have the trailer and the original windhsield with it. If anyone's interested I do have photos of it that I can post.

[F Jr]

Do you have pics,info,price, rensport@cox.net

[bertsboat]

This is my Baby Donzi. I thought you may want to look at it. Is is sort of like the Formula JR

[F Jr]

What engine does it have? Do you have more pics

[bertsboat]

It has a new Mercruiser 3.0 (4 cylinder) Alpha 2 drive. I will show you more later today.

[bertsboat]

Boat going for the final wire job that I do not have time to do right now. I am hopeing to get to Tavaras (Mt Dora Florida) in 4 weeks. Anybody going??

[bertsboat]

The engine compartment with Dana Marine power hindges.

[bertsboat]

This is the dash aera. It is further along that this but I don't have a more recent picture.

[F Jr]

Very nice Donzi! Do you know how many were made? any for sale? I have several Formula Jr s and would like to put together a registry of serial#s,general locations,and how many there are left. If you know any F jr owners I would like to contact them. Good luck at Tavaras,wish I was going,maybe next year.

[bertsboat]

Will not be there Friday. Hopefully the Baby will be ready. Worst case id that it will get wet for the first time there. I am going to bo out of town till Thurdsay next week and I will take it weather it is ready or not.

I don't know anybody with a F JR. Infact, I am from North Miami and I lived there most of my adult live and knew alot of people from Formula including Scott Porter and I don't think I have ever seen a Formula JR (in person). I can't say that I have ever seen one in person.
I know about them.

I hung out with lots of people in the boat industriy in the 70'S and 80'S. I even owned a mirine store in N Miami called the Ship Shop with a fellow named Tim Breuil. His Day wirked at Magnum Marine as the Sales manager and was a boat racer.

[scoxe1]

F jr, I'm just a little curious, how many Formula Jr s do you have? I too would like to know about how many are left.
Forgive me, I'm new at this forum thing.

[bertsboat]

There were only 14 of these boats made. 11 kmown to have been made at the Donzi factory and the last 3 made at the Cigarette factory. They were all made by Do Arranow. When he sold Donzi he took this mold with him. This was the only mold he took. All the other Donzi molds were sold. The one I have was the lsat one from the mold. It was never rigged till last year.
It is almost ready to take out for a drive

[scoxe1]

Wow, really just 14? That seems like a really low number. If you don't mind me asking, how did you manage to come across the last one from the mold?

[bertsboat]

Back in the late 70'S I bought this boat from someone that worked at Cigarette. I held it for a short time. I never rigged it. It was a hull and a deck with a hatch cover.
I decided it would cost too much to rig so I sold it. Actually, I traded it for two Penn Internationals.
Well the guy I sold it to never rigged it either. It sat next to his house for 30 years. I was near his houde last year and decided to swing by there to see if it was still there. I had been going ny there from time to time to try to get it back with no luck. He was never around. I left him notes and he never returned my calls.
Well I ended up gettimg it back last year and this time it went right into the shop and this is where it's at.

[scoxe1]

Forgive me, but I'm a little confused, did you mean that only 14 of these Baby Donzis were made or did you mean that 14 of the Formula Jr s were made?

[bertsboat]

There are only 14 baby Donzi 14's. I would guess there are hundreds of Formula JR. There was a nice one on eBay 6 months ago. Took a while but it sold. The price started high and ended up reasonable. I would look for a 16 Donzi if I were you. Cheaper, better and eiser to buy and sell. Plus a bigger engine fits into the boat.